Extractor problems with new P380

[wyntrout]

Well, I finally got to the range to test my wife's new P380... that I bought a few weeks ago. I've been busy with the house being Rhino Shielded and a new roof being put on... and switching from DISH to AT&T U-Verse.

I carried my P380N and the new one to the range to see if it had any problems. Mine didn't, but the new one did. From the the first round not fully chambering from slide lock release to almost every shot. the slide would not go into full battery and numerous rounds would not be ejected even when I pushed the slide into battery. I had to use a rod several times to extract cases and a few rounds that the extractor could hang onto.

I had five 6-round mags and three 7-round extended grip mags for a total of 51 rounds loaded at one time with me. I started with S&B 92-gr FMJ and then Herter's 95-gr FMJ. I left the SD Buffalo Bore loaded ones at home or didn't use the carry ones with me at the range. Yeah, I have lots of magazines.:D

By the time I labored through the first load of mags, I called it quits on the new P380. Then I shot a set through my CCW P380 plus one mag of the Winchester Ranger T that I think my wife would prefer. I only had one minor problem with MY pistol... besides sprinkling the target a little more than I wanted.

I need to clean the pistols and take comparison photos when I get around to it, and see if there's anything amiss with the extractor train.

The extractor is out of spec... at least, so maybe a new one will fix things without a trip back to the factory. I'll check the parts out when I clean them.

Almost every shot required the slide to be pushed forward to battery and if I didn't, there would be some kind of crappy click that would repeat if I let the trigger reset, but the slide was out of battery and I could push it forward with my thumb easy enough that that's what I did for every shot... nearly.

I'm glad that I went alone and didn't have Wifey with me. She has no patience.:rolleyes:.

I pulled the slide off and oiled the friction areas several times to no avail, so it wasn't the pistol being dry. I did a quickie cleaning job with patches through the barrel and lightly oilled the ramp, too. I wasn't supposed to do stuff like that at the range, but it was a new pistol and I was trying to get it to work properly.

The extractor seems further toward the center of the breechface than my older one and I hope that a new extractor... or anything else that Kahr wants to send me, will put it back into action. But, if they want to work on it, they can take it and make sure it's properly running.

Wynn:)

[JFootin]

Hard to believe they test fired that gun before it left the factory.

[wyntrout]

It IS odd what gets out the door! I think the extractor's the only problem, but Ii haven't stripped down the slide, yet, to compare it with mine.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Whew! I almost lost all of this. Had been too long away from the computer, but saved the text first and had to start over here.

Okay... I finally emailed Kahr CS and then left a voice message as well. I took a lot of pictures and measured a few dimensions to compare the old versus the new P380. I hear back from Jay very quickly.

From earlier:
I think the biggest problems is that the new extractor is out of spec' and protrudes closer to the striker pin hole and rests on the breechface. It doesn't allow the case rime to slip under the claw and doesn't hold the case as the slide goes or tries to go into battery, as evidenced by the need to use a rod to push cases or rounds from the chamber. First a few photos of that. In the first is the new pistol and the claw of the extractor is resting on the breechface and protrudes further toward the striker pin hole. The older pistol's extractor claw doesn't protrude as far and has a space for the case rim to slip under the claw. This seems to be the MAIN problem though there could be other factors. The parts of the extractor "claw" are a bit different.

Long break in completion of this post... went to FedEx and returned this pistol on their dime... cooked supper, ate supper... with many interruptions by AT&T... cell calls and was first trying to cook... with hypoglycemia... and then eat baby back ribs with lots of Sweet Baby Ray's sauce... on fingers... couldn't quite get the danged cell answered after cleaning fingers... frustrating... probably automated notification... time after time!

Anyhow, let me see about getting some pix here. In the first two pix, the new one is on the right.

There are lots of differences in the old and new extractors. And the extractor train parts are a bit different. I'm sure that Kahr will sort things out and get it working properly.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I was taken aback by the color and finish of the barrel. It was a dark gray... unpolished "finish". My old one is a bright shiny finish.

The barrels are clean and the ramps polished a bit with Flitz in the last two photos... with the new one on the left.

Oh... something else I noticed... the new slide lock is one piece. The pin doesn't spin on it as it does on the older one.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

P380 #2 is back in Kahr's hands now... can't wait to get it back and go to the range with better results!

Wynn:)

[jocko]

I won't argue on the slide lock but I think they are still two parts. some will not spin for some reason. Those that spin are IMO very nice, as IMO the only thing the mag follower has to do now is move up the slide lock lever and nothing more. Not realy sure 8it makes a hill of beans difference either.

I am told that slide lock pin is of a different higher proprietory steel than the lever itself..Could be B. S to. ; Just sayin

I have seen that dull gray finish on the outside of alot of kahr barrels. Under that finish is the bright nickle finish. Have no idea why they come that way as it soon wears off were any metal tometal contact is and then it tend sto give an owner thoughts about if something cold be wrong with the gun.

[jlottmc]

You have the worst luck with new Kahrs. Anyone taking bets on how many trips to the mothership Wynn's going to have to make? How many things until it becomes a Franken pop gun? We wait with breathless anticipation.

[jocko]

indeed if he had a duck it would drown!!! Just sayin

[wyntrout]

Hey! All of mine work... after some tweaking, maybe! I AM surprised that this P380 made it out the door there. I don't see how they could have fired a whole magazine without pushing the slide into battery for most shots.

And, Jocko, the slide locks that don't have a rotating pin are still made from two parts... the pin being pressed into its receiving hole in the "lever" part. You can see that from the outside. The pins that rotate freely are made from three parts. There's a pin with the mating hole in the lever part, but there's a sleeve that is swaged onto the pin and this outer part spins on the inner part. It's kind of the luck of the draw and I've seen both kinds. If you look closely at the inner edge of the rotating pins, you can see where it's necked down to be retained on the inner pin and you can see that inner pin remain stationary as the outer part rotates... like a roller pin. My "old" P380 and the PM45 have that "feature", but I can't remember which of the other types do. We've had this conversation before, but I have two P380's and each has a different slide lock pin.

I didn't count the retainer pin for the slide lock pin, either. I just noticed that in a recent image that someone else posted. :rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[jocko]

Yes I think I remember that to, sorry about that. I was just saying that all the slide lever have two parts. I read ur quote of the slide lock being one peace to mean the complete slide lock

the new slide lock is one piece (quote).

[wyntrout]

No problem! I just looked at the first two photos again and I can see where the claw is striking the rear of the cartridges. On the new one, the marks are about two-thirds the way from the inner part and only about one third on the older claw.

When chambering a round, the rim should slide up and under the claw, but the new one's claw is resting on the breechface and the round winds up in front of the claw, and the slide isn't in battery... and pushing the slide forward evidently doesn't insure that the claw grips the rim, either, as evidenced by the failure to extract the chjambered cases fired or unfired... with repeated pushing into battery by hand or thumb. Ramrod time... kind of like those extractor-less pistols in .22LR by Beretta or Taurus... and other calibers, I guess.

Got to run errands! Later, Guys... and Gals! :D

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

You could have tried the old extractor set up in the new gun, then had Kahr send you a new set up, but the bbl finish kinda threw that out huh?

[wyntrout]

There could have been more than the extractor having problems, including the lead-like finish on the barrel. I wondered about the chamber and headspace since the slide could go into battery without the extractor gripping the rim as it should.

I was willing to try a new extractor, but glad they wanted to look it over on their dime. I can't imagine that they would think the barrel is a good representation of quality!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Dang! Just got my P380 back... fast service.

Dropped it off at the FedEx Service Center Last Monday at 4:54:44 PM EDT and I just received it at home at about 12:10 PM EDT!

The pistol is pretty dirty from firing, but I can see there's clearance under the extractor claw... it's not resting on the breechface.

Technical worksheet dated 05/03/2012:

Problem Reported:

FAILS TO RETURN TO BATTERY INSPECT EXTRACTOR AND BARREL 2 MAGS

Action Taken:

INSPECTED. POLISHED FEED RAMP. UPDATED MAGAZINES, RECOIL SPRINGS, SLIDE STOP, EXTRACTOR, STRIKER BLOCK, EJECTOR AND LOCKING CAM. LUBED AND TEST FIRED OK.

Wow! That's a lot more than just replacing the extractor! The barrel still has the spiffy, dull lead finish, but that's okay if it shoots well.

Now I have to start all over on weakening the recoil springs so my wife can rack it.:rolleyes:

I forgot and left my expensive bike-tube grip cover on the pistol and it's still there, so that's good, too.:D

Updated magazines... not sure if both tubes are original, but the 6-rounder still has my red Sharpie mark on it. I think I wiped the other off, so not sure what updating means there. Both the mags are the new type with reduced feed lips.

I believe a trip to the range is in order... after lunch, shave, etc.

I took some pictures outside in the bright sunlight, so I didn't try to see if they were focused... the feed ramp/chamber ones weren't, but there was a lot of powder residue and the frame around the striker pin hole is black and dirty. No biggee... I might just wipe it down before trying it.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Well, I got off to the range and tried all of my magazines with Herter's 95-gr FMJ and S&B 92-gr FMJ. No problems... until I tried the Winchester 95-gr Ranger-T defense ammo. With the new mags, it wouldn't go up the ramp... from slide lock or hard slingshot... no go. Those work okay in my older P380, but I'll have to re-think the Ranger-T for my wife's SD ammo! The BB is definitely out. I may have to use Speer Gold Dots for that... more ammo to buy.

I had one weird thing happen. In the new P380 I tried my carry mags with BB 90-gr +P Gold Dots. The 7-rounder spare mag had a stove pipe on round 7. I dropped the mag, cleared the case and then let the slide go forward. Then I couldn't pull the slide to the rear! The slide lock was fully inserted and I couldn't see any problems but it took me a while to get the slide to move to the rear... LOTS of force. Then the pistol was okay...???

My shooting wasn't great... lots of jerking and sprinkling the letter-sized paper targets. I seem to do best if I point and focus on the trigger PULL... not jerking. I did get a lot of rounds downrange and the pistol should be broken in.

I put maybe 50-60 rounds through it on the first trip to the range, but all of the extractor related problems made that no fun and I shot MY P380 for the rest of the time.

I shot two boxes of Herters, 27 rounds of S&B, around 18 or so rounds of Ranger-T, and 15 BB 90-gr +P Gold Dots. I shot most of the Ranger T in MY pistol. A few random BB were certainly noticed!

When I can get my wife to the range we'll see how she shoots the pistol. She's going to SW Colorado to visit her mom for Mother's Day and picking up her sister in Phoenix on the way... as a surprise. After she gets back I want to try to get her scheduled for the CCW Permit. We can make an appointment and have the picture, prints, and application all-in-one stop done.

Wynn:)

[Cole125]

Good to hear. I carry Speer Gold Dots in my P380 and they have functioned 100 percent in the gun, and no more recoil than S&B FMJ.

[wyntrout]

I just ordered 250 rounds from SGA @ $31.95 a box of 50, plus $13 something for shipping and insurance. I got tired of looking and there may have been a better deal somewhere, but that wasn't bad. I saw prices up to $45 a box plus shipping!

It bothers me a bit that the "new and improved" 6 and 7-round mags wouldn't feed the Ranger-T's UP the ramp. I WAS thinking of modifying the other 10 magazines like the newer ones, but they fed the Ranger-T's fine... in MY P380.

I tried the T's in the new mags in the older P380 and one fed okay and the other balked but fed the next rack of the slide. My older P380's barrel ramp was "modified" by me long ago when I sought to decrease the immediate uphill slope. I was using a diamond abrasive bit in my Dremel-Like Tool... DLT... and it bit into the ramp like a hot knife into butter!:eek: I thought that I had really screwed the pooch with that barrel. I really worked at the ramp with a round file and sandpaper around the round file to create a smooth ramp again. I seem to have succeeded and it works fine, but I thought was going to have to buy another barrel! Those DLT thingies can wreak havoc with metal and worse with plastic... as I have found out a few times! 25,000 to 30,000 RPM and plastic vaporizes... POOF!

Wynn:)

[bonjorno2]

My first p380 had the same issue with having to push it back into battery... Pita for sure.

[wyntrout]

Well, the magazine catch was bad... dropping mags and FTF's... too soft bearing ledge rolled over. Kahr sent a new one and it worked okay. Finally got around to cleaning the pistol after a week and the danged rear sight all but fell out!

I easily pushed the rear sight out and saw a little oil or something there. I cleaned the dove tail with alcohol and used Red Permatex to try to seal that in place! Dang! What's next??:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[gm412]

Hard to believe they test fired that gun before it left the factory.

I am having the same types of problems plus more after my second time to Kahr. When I got it I could not get through one magazine without at least one and usually 2 malfunctions. I also wondered if they really tested it before sending it to me. And since it was the second time back I thought they would test it even more.

I love these guns but they need some QA. Hell we send out huge software packages with less bugs than these 380s and when we fix one it is fixed.

I am about to call Kahr and send it back for a third try.

[socialwork911]

i hate to hear these stories....sorry guys that you have to go through this...Kahr has my 380, some may know, 49 perfect rounds and then then the slide locks closed???...and who knows...sounds like they fix one thing and brake another....i can only hope....otherwise, you'll see it for sale....hard to find a good 380...maybe the TCP is up next...sig? I don't know, I'll CC a bazooka

[wyntrout]

Maybe you have a bad magazine catch, too. The bearing ledge on mine just failed... the replacement seems good. I'll keep an eye on that.

Sometimes they get bad parts... defects and such.

Let me see if I can post the pix of that. First three are the bad one. The last is of the bad one after I tried to remove the "rolled" edge with the wrong tool... a small stone... couldn't find my danged small files... and the new one on the right.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Post on It happened to me... the extractor flying off my PM9. Just got parts and posted pix and question on post#37:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=188051#post188051

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Well, finally ready and leaving for the gun show at the Fairgrounds... my main exercise for the weekend.

Wynn:D

[rvbgtr]

Sweet Baby Rays. Yum