Manual Safeties Yes or No?

[Markis82]

On DAO striker fired pistols, do you think manual safeties are necessary? Do you think that a safety on those types of pistols could possible be dangerous?

[SmokingGun]

Not necessary. Not dangerous. Training is the key!

[Bill K]

Yes, I believe dangerous if you don't train. So although my post reads differently I'm in agreement with what SmokingGun posted.

Also, manual safety often means, but not always, you've got a relatively light single action trigger which of course has its pluses and minuses.

[joshh]

necessary=NO, but i was surprised to find that i use & appreciate it. i pocket my pm9 in a holster and its reassuring to know that the safety is there. when i bought the pm9 i assumed i'd carry with it "off" but i have practiced with it enough that flipping the safety while drawing isnt a hindrance at all.

[TheTman]

I'd put it more like a "nice to have" like in Joshh's instance where he can pocket carry with it on safe with no worries. I've wished my CW40 had a safety at times, when holstering it behind my back where I couldn't see it very well. I just kept a finger behind the trigger until it was firmly on it's way into the holster.

[kerby9mm]

I consider safeties a personal preference. I think one should feel confident when carrying. On my mk's I don't have a safety or want one. On my p238 I use the safety for cocked and locked carry in OWB holster. On my Kimber Eclipse 5in (never carry it Too big) cocked and locked and grip safety would be enough for me.

[RedRyder]

I I just kept a finger behind the trigger until it was firmly on it's way into the holster.

Ya know I've seen this in prior posts but reading it here somehow jogged the brain enough to make me start training without ammo initially to reholster with finger behind trigger. It's a great manual safety and I intend to start the process tonite.

Thanks for tip.:D

[chrish]

i also think/agree that it's personal preference. none of my guns have them, nor will they. just don't see myself going w/ a 1911 ever or a normal striker design w/ or w/o a safety. so for me, it'd be dangerous, but for those that train w/ one, use one, prefer one, ok by me. it's all in what you familiarize yourself with. i will continue to buy DAO guns whether a revolver or semi-auto (the few that exist). it keeps me focused on the purpose of the gun and i don't have to think for a second which manual of arms I'm dealing with. i personally like it that way.

[Planedude]

...I've wished my CW40 had a safety at times, when holstering it behind my back where I couldn't see it very well...

Before my first back surgery (2009) I would carry my CW40 in a Bullard holster SOB. I handled the issue by never drawing/reholstering while loaded. I just was'nt that brave. I just removed the holster/gun, unless I would have been in contact with a BG. I picked the CW40 for the shape of the barrel end of the slide. I wanted any reholstering of a loaded gun, while pointed at my own butt cheek to go real smooth.
After my surgery an SOB holster just plain hurts. I really shudder to think of falling on my dumb arse, landing on my gun on top my surgery scar anymore. Ouch!
These days reholstering the CW40 in the Don Hume OWB at the 5 o'clock is no big deal. I'm still real careful but I don't miss the safety these days.
Age? Experience? Not sure which is the driver there as I don't see the holster opening any better.
That said on the very few time I carry the full size 1911 anymore, cocked and locked, the safeties are a comfort.
Use'um if you got'um but the only real safety is between your ears...

[Popeye]

Manual safeties No. Have to admit I do like the grip safeties on the XDs though.

[TheTman]

RedRyder, just wanted to remind you that I/We are violating a basic safety rule with the finger behind the trigger by having a finger in the trigger guard while not ready to fire at anything. I'm comfortable doing it, But it is a safety violation. It might get you in trouble in a class or something.

[JFootin]

Manual safeties No. Have to admit I do like the grip safeties on the XDs though.

You're right. The grip safety does provide an automatic and effective mechanism for safer handling of XDs.

It's funny. I never hear 1911 owners talk about carrying cocked and unlocked, depending on the grip safety to prevent an AD. Of course, we are talking about a light single action trigger, unlike the XD. But light trigger or not, it's not going to fire unless that grip safety is firmly compressed, right?

Another gun that comes to mind as one with a safety lever that might be pretty safe without it is the Sig P238 because, as I understand it, that single action trigger is at least 7.5 lb. No grip safety, though. Not saying I would want to carry one in my pocket that way, but maybe in a belt holster?

Not saying I would carry any single action gun cocked and unlocked, but just wanted to express some thoughts for discussion.

[muggsy]

Safeties are mechanical devices and mechanical devices can and do fail. What makes a gun safe or unsafe is the person in control of the gun. IMHO if you carry more than one gun both should operate in the same manner. In that way there is less chance for error. That's why I purchased a P380 as a back-up for my CM9.

[jocko]

and as u know people can and do alsop fail. My bet ismore people can and do fail more than any safety device failing in a gun, expecalloy maual safetys...Just sayin.

Noting beats common sense but as u know alot of gun owners have no common sense either..

[Gliderguy]

I like the idea of the grip safety like on the XD. can be super simple by just blocking the trigger bar from catching the cam when not depressed for a minimum of extra parts. Hard to forget to actuate when held in anything resembling a normal firing grip and atomatically goes on safe when hand is off the weapon. Small as possible to do the job and not be subject to accidental activation is a plus.

If you could simply grab the exposed part of the grip safety and be able to remove it from the firearm to disable might occasionally be a useful feature. Would rather that than all this special key this and trigger lock that madness on some firearms.

Despite not being standard procedure, I really like the finger behind the trigger (observed visually first) for out of sight IWB holstering. The trigger snagging on clothes, or edge of holster or whatever while pushing the weapon forwards into a holster has caused ND's and I had a thread on the very subject a few months ago. I only carry long DAO type weapons for SD so it may not work for someone who has 1911 style weapons in their carry rotation. A grip safety may not help here unless arming the pistol requires a really firm grip (which could help promote good technique but might make the weapon unusable if your hand is injured.

Manual safety is a big maybe. all about ergonomic design and likelyhood of accicental activation without being too hard to de-activate when needed NOW.

[voodoo54]

Being a lefty I despise "safties" because nine times out of ten they are on the left side and very difficult to manipulate. They are an unneccessary additional step you have to take to put your weapon into action. Yes you can train to manipulate the safety and fire quickly but why add the extra step, espicially with a pistol where you probably have fractions of a second to employ your weapon.

[jocko]

back years ago, until the glocks made their entrance,most semi's had some sort of manual safety. People to me knowledge never complained..

[muggsy]

and as u know people can and do alsop fail. My bet ismore people can and do fail more than any safety device failing in a gun, expecalloy maual safetys...Just sayin.

Noting beats common sense but as u know alot of gun owners have no common sense either..

People with no common sense can forget to engage a safety. Gun safety is best exercised by the person holding the gun. Ya can't fix stupid or make stupid safe.

[ParabellumJ]

Its all training. If you train with a manual safety, then there shouldn't be a problem. Personally I prefer DAO without manual safty on a carry gun.

[JohnInFlorida]

Unlike some others who have posted on this thread, I specifically looked for and bought "no manual safety" as a feature.

If under pressure, point ... press ... BANG! just makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Of the 4 handguns I might conceivably carry, 3 have no manual safety. One is snubby revolver and of the 3 pistols, 2 are DAO "point and shoot". The third (w/manual safety) I could carry concealed, but I just never do.

[les strat]

I am usually a "no saftey guy" on pistols with long trigger pulls, although it is a good option to have for those new to carrying or feel they wouldn't carry without one, like my wife (owner of an LC9).

Like jocko said, people are more prone to fail than any safety. Chances of something going wrong when drawing, aiming, and firing in a SD situ is off the chart compared to a safety malfunction, and if someone is worried about gun malfunctions, they best carry a revolver.

[Ken_K]

I personally don't like manual safeties on DAO pistols. The BEST safety we have is the one between our ears. If you don't want to accidentally shoot yourself or someone else just keep your finger off the trigger until your on target. ;)

[jocko]

allgood points, I am a lefty and I have neve rhad any issues engaging or disengaging a safety. U train to do that. Nice thing about a safety is THAT U DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT ON EITHER. A option that surely can't be a fault. they don't go on accidently. If I had a choice back when I bought my PM9 5+ years ago, I would have opted for the manual safety. I have never read of anyone getting shot becu7ase they couold not get the safety off in a SHTF scenario. It is a choice but in some guns, it is not a choice, I am glad to see kahr has given shooters a choice. at m age, I seem to error more on the side of caution.

Sure u can't fix stupid, but you can maybe help it somewhat. Just sayin. probably been far more AD/ND with glocks than any other semi combined. Humm!!1

[Barth]

I have seven handguns and they all have no manual safety.
This is by choice as I adhere to the KISS method of Self Defense shooting.
With an adrenalin dump, and the associated loss of fine motor skills,
I'm a big advocate of SD guns you can draw, point and squeeze.

SA guns demand a manual safety.
I don't own one.

[jocko]

wonder why it is that most all 22's semi's have an external safety??Just askin, Is it because the makerrs determined that this is not a defense gun wheter we think so or not. I never seem to see the call to take manual safety's off of 22's semi's. I guess that is why we can all have a difference of opinions to.

I have zero issues with the KISS method FOR SOME PEOPLE, certainly not for all and I do think it was a very wise decision by kahr to offer a couple models with manual safety's. Now we all have a choice, which I am sure in the past might have drove some gun people to a brand that did offer such.

My son who is 23 and never realy been around guns like I have and basically is not caught up on the gun world like I am has no real basics in gun sh1t other than what his dad hs tried to teach him. I bought him a G19 a few years back and I had the siderlock trigger safety installed in it strictly for safety reasons. If he wants the safety off , he still has the glock SAS. He really knows no difference, in his mind a gun should have some sort of manual safety, so he is cool with it. Just sayin.

[Barth]

I have zero issues with the KISS method FOR SOME PEOPLE, certainly not for all and I do think it was a very wise decision by kahr to offer a couple models with manual safety's. Now we all have a choice, which I am sure in the past might have drove some gun people to a brand that did offer such.


I believe Kahr produced guns with manual safeties to allow sales in the Communist state of California.

[Ken_K]

I believe Kahr produced guns with manual safeties to allow sales in the Communist state of California.

^
This

[jocko]

possably so, , and why not? makes good busness sense to, and also now opens up the door to any purchaser in the cuntry to buy a kahr with a manual safety, so IMO they killed two birds with one stone: Just sayin

[Markis82]

Unlike some others who have posted on this thread, I specifically looked for and bought "no manual safety" as a feature.

If under pressure, point ... press ... BANG! just makes a whole lot of sense to me. + 1 Yes! What he said. Even though I'm the OP, I have neglected to offer my opinion until someone said it first.

I'd add that even though people train with safeties, mistakes happen. The mistake that strikes me is if the SHTF you accidently miss clicking the safety off or some other safety mishap you don't get your shot(s) off. Having no safety take one variable or unknown out of the picture. I'm not worried about an AD one tiny little bit. I'm worried about an accident and not having a discharge when needed! That can be one costly safety!

[O'Dell]

Okay, I'm in the minority here and I expected to be. I much prefer a manual safety! In fact, I have refused to buy a pistol in the past because none was available. Although I no longer have either, [not the gun's fault - it's a fine pistol] both of my M&P's were ordered with a safety. It's no surprise to anyone here that I am a fan of Kahr's and SIG's. These are the only pistols I own without a safety because they are either unavailable or hard to get. That means that one SIG, one LCP, [a gift] and four Kahr's that don't have a manual safety, but the other ten do. They are HK's, 1911's, and S&W's.

Let's go back to the beginning; for the first fifteen years of my handgun involvement, I had nothing but Browning HP's and Colt 1911's. These are the guns I was trained on and the ones I shot in competition. Swiping off a safety was part of the process and is still second nature to me. I still do it even on my Kahr's and SIG, even though it's not there. It's certainly not something I'm going to forget. However if I lose my pistol in some kind of conflict, the BG might. In over 45 years of shooting handguns I have never had a ND, and probably would not have had one w/o a safety because I am very careful, but you never know.

Speaking of ND's, and as Jocko said people are much more likely to fail than a safety, BUT, how many of those holstering accidents would have been avoided if the safety was set on safe before holstering the weapon. I know, I know, the finger shouldn't be on the trigger, but we all know it happens.

All right, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;)

[jg rider]

I always use a manual safety when pocket carrying

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Odds%20and%20ends/001.jpg

Seriously I found this about a Glock safety

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/stb.html

I wonder if any one makes one for Kahr?
IMHO, if it aint holstered a thumb safety is ify.
A while back I wrote about knowing someone (LEO) shoot himself through the check of his a$$ and into his calf.
He was carrying a 1911, Mexican style while O.D. in a pair of dress pants. The thumb safety worked it's way off way off and the inside pants buttons for suspenders hooked the trigger.

I know the trigger can't be pushed as easy, but the safety can work it's self off riding loose in a pocket.
I sandwich my PM9 between 2 pieces of a flexible thin back cover of a DVD case, that covers the trigger and carry in my back pocket.

If we start putting safeties on long D.A.O. like trigger pulls on autos. Soon we'll be putting them on revolvers

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/Kahr%20holsters/12Kahrpm9holster001.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/Kahr%20holsters/11Kahrpm9holster.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Kahr%20Pistols/Kahr%20holsters/13Kahrpm9holster002.jpg

[jocko]

when I had my sporting good business it was inside one part of ou tire store. I always had gun friends in visiting etc. One day, this one gun fella, whom I considered knowledeable about guns as he must have had a 100+ . anyway he went into the mens restroom to take a dunk and BANG came this noise from the gun room . we all ran to the locked door and there was a 38 spl hole right throgh the top portion of the door. He was taking a dump and playing with his Model 60 and yup, it went bang. the round upwalrd and ended up hittig a ceiling I-beam.

No harm, no foul, BUT HE NEVER CAME BACK INTO MY PLACE AGAIN. He was a person who thought he was rambo and knew everythig about guns and he did know guns to but he didn't know gun safety that was for sure. He could not explain that incident away, so he choose to never come back.

[muggsy]

None of my Kahr pistols has a manual safety. I carry them in holsters that covers the trigger. My Kahr pistols cannot go bang unless I pull the trigger. That's safety enough for me. I always treat every gun as if it were loaded. I never point the gun at anything that I don't intend to destroy. I keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I'm sure of my target and aware of what's beyond. Gun safety is no accident. A gun is only as safe as it's user. Learn it, live it.

[Popeye]

You're right. The grip safety does provide an automatic and effective mechanism for safer handling of XDs.

It's funny. I never hear 1911 owners talk about carrying cocked and unlocked, depending on the grip safety to prevent an AD. Of course, we are talking about a light single action trigger, unlike the XD. But light trigger or not, it's not going to fire unless that grip safety is firmly compressed, right?

Another gun that comes to mind as one with a safety lever that might be pretty safe without it is the Sig P238 because, as I understand it, that single action trigger is at least 7.5 lb. No grip safety, though. Not saying I would want to carry one in my pocket that way, but maybe in a belt holster?

Not saying I would carry any single action gun cocked and unlocked, but just wanted to express some thoughts for discussion.


The grip safety on the XD line of pistols is very easy to compress you hardly notice it's there and your pressing it. I suppose you could accidently fire the gun by holding it in some unnatural position but you'd really have to be having serious brain fart or senior moment. I've also never heard of one malfunctioning.
As far as pocket carry the only ones I can see being carried in a pocket comfortably at least for me are the Ruger LCP and the P3at size pistols. I very rarely carry in a pants pocket but do carry in a vest or jacket pocket quite often.

[Barth]

None of my Kahr pistols has a manual safety. I carry them in holsters that covers the trigger. My Kahr pistols cannot go bang unless I pull the trigger. That's safety enough for me. I always treat every gun as if it were loaded. I never point the gun at anything that I don't intend to destroy. I keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I'm sure of my target and aware of what's beyond. Gun safety is no accident. A gun is only as safe as it's user. Learn it, live it.

+1
I don't think I agree with you much - LOL!
But you're dead on with this one.

[jg rider]

Well I just shamed myself when I saw how I pocket carried my PM9.
After a nice conversation with Sam Andrews, I just ordered a pocket holster from him. I never met or spoke to this gentleman before now.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/pocket.htm#wallet

[O'Dell]

I just saw a similar poll on another non-centric manufacturer gun forum. The results there were 58% to 42% in favor of no safety on a carry gun after 400 or 500 votes. I didn't get clobbered quite so badly on that poll. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that this is a Kahr forum and Kahrs normally don't have manual safeties. :rolleyes:

[muggsy]

+1
I don't think I agree with you much - LOL!
But you're dead on with this one.

You must be slippin, Barth. :)

[muggsy]

I just saw a similar poll on another non-centric manufacturer gun forum. The results there were 58% to 42% in favor of no safety on a carry gun after 400 or 500 votes. I didn't get clobbered quite so badly on that poll. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that this is a Kahr forum and Kahrs normally don't have manual safeties. :rolleyes:

That is a distinct possibility O'Dell, but none of my revolvers have safeties, either. My 1911 does, but then it not a striker fire DAO pistol. Safeties have their place and I wouldn't sell a gun because it had one. I just believe that in some instances they are not necessary or desirable. To each his own.

[Kahrdriver64]

Not necessary and potentially dangerous to the user if not trained to deal with it. The decocking safety on my 96F means it will never be a ccw for me. It's a fun range pistol and has its place in a drop leg holster but not for SD. Waaaaay to many things to do between "Oh ****" and Bang.

The lack of a safety and DAO were number 2 on my list of attractions to Kahr right behind how well they fit my hand and finger length.

[HenryinFlorida]

On my 1911, of course I want a manual safety so I can keep it cocked and locked. But, on a DAO pistol the safety isn't necessary. That's why they have a longer and firmer trigger pull. As long as you have it holstered, and use proper procedures to holster and unholster you should be plenty safe.

[jocko]

except glocks!!! or kimber solo

[O'Dell]

But, on a DAO pistol the safety isn't necessary. That's why they have a longer and firmer trigger pull. As long as you have it holstered, and use proper procedures to holster and unholster you should be plenty safe.

Sorry, I still don't agree. If that were true no one would ever have a ND. People are still the weakest link in the shooter - gun equation, and until we can correct that, the gun should be as safe as possible.

It's still a personal choice. You can carry anyway you like and I'll do the same.

[Barth]

except glocks!!! or kimber solo

I know it's strange.
And I'm not sure of the correct terminology.
Didn't realize it until recently actually.
But all striker fired guns are not the same.
The Kimber Solo is actually considered a SA striker gun
and has an external safety.
Where the Glock safe action triggers
are not considered SA but DA.

I think the Kimber may be fully cocked, so to speak,
and the Glock is semi-cocked. Where you pull the plunger
the rest of the way back with the trigger.

I think pocket carry of a Kimber Solo may well be ill advised.

[jocko]

no ur right the kiimber is at leat 90% cocked kwhere as the glock is close to 50% . Wasn't trying to argue aqnythig either just pointing out that striker fired guns are certainly not all the same. I thought at one time I might have the hots for a sol but when I foundout it was SA, I said no way is that fokker going in my pocket safety or not. Sice then reports are iffy on the gun to, so glad I errored on the side of caution. I consider the glock SAS a piss poor excuse for any safety but that is my opinion to. Just not sure if they made a glock the saize and wieght of the pm9 with the glock SAS thgat I would wantto pocket it either: Just sayin.

[O'Dell]

I know it's strange.
And I'm not sure of the correct terminology.
Didn't realize it until recently actually.
But all striker fired guns are not the same.
The Kimber Solo is actually considered a SA striker gun
and has an external safety.
Where the Glock safe action triggers
are not considered SA but DA.

I think the Kimber may be fully cocked, so to speak,
and the Glock is semi-cocked. Where you pull the plunger
the rest of the way back with the trigger.

I think pocket carry of a Kimber Solo may well be ill advised.

I think the terminology currently used is SA, the hammer is completely cocked and the trigger just releases it, DA, the striker is partially cocked and the trigger completes the job and releases it, and DAO where the trigger completely cocks the hammer and releases it. Your P220 and most SIGS, HK's, 3rd gen S&W's, etc, are actually a DAO first pull and SA thereafter. DA revolvers and the P250 are DAO. Most striker fired guns, including Kahrs, are DA because the striker is partially cocked before pulling the trigger. Of course 1911's are an example of SA.

I've never understood why the so-called safe action triggers exist. It seem to me that if anything catches on the trigger it's going to pull it whether it has the little doohickey in the middle like a Glock or XD or has the jointed trigger found on S&W's.

I haven't examined a Solo so I don't know where it falls in the general scheme of things.

[jocko]

kimber even calls the solo "single action".

[O'Dell]

kimber even calls the solo "single action".

But it does have a safety, doesn't it? If so, it's like carrying a 1911 or an HK 'cocked and locked'.

[JFootin]

But it does have a safety, doesn't it? If so, it's like carrying a 1911 or an HK 'cocked and locked'.

I think Kimber's intention was to make a tiny 9 with features like the 1911s they are famous for.

[jocko]

But it does have a safety, doesn't it? If so, it's like carrying a 1911 or an HK 'cocked and locked'.

it does..

[scoose]

Manual safety NO

[HenryinFlorida]

Sorry, I still don't agree. If that were true no one would ever have a ND. People are still the weakest link in the shooter - gun equation, and until we can correct that, the gun should be as safe as possible.

It's still a personal choice. You can carry anyway you like and I'll do the same.

Well then, maybe those weakest links should learn how to handle their guns. If you don't know what your doing, you can have accidents even with a manual safety.

[O'Dell]

Well then, maybe those weakest links should learn how to handle their guns. If you don't know what your doing, you can have accidents even with a manual safety.

Right, and we'll just tell people they should stop taking drugs and driving while intoxicated - I'm sure that will stop the practices.

I've said all along that it's a personal choice. I was trained over 45 years ago to use a safety, and that training has stayed with me. I wish my four Kahrs had one but they don't - Same with my P220. I'll continue to carry the Kahrs because their size, weight, and reliability make them the best carry pistols for me. The SIG will stay because it's a great shooter, and I never carry it anyway.

[AIRret]

To me it is important to be consistent in my firearm training, and since my first handgun was a sig 226 (26 years old and never a malfunction) I decided that non of my carry guns would have a safety. I don't need to have a mental hesitation before I pull the trigger.
My carry guns are Kahr pm9, Ruger LCR 357, Sig 239, and Sig 226. The sig are DA/SA so I REALLY train decocking before holstering. I also place my thumb on the back of the auto pistols slide while holstering. I certainly don't want to mistakenly cock the gun.

[jocko]

why do most every long gun have safetys on them. LEO guns are no different. Just askin.

I think this no safety thing is certainly ones choice but IMO it is more of a macho thing to, as years back most all semi's had some kind of external safety, Again why do practicaly all 22 semi's have safetys on them? Just asking. Has someone

said that 22's are not good or ever used for defense or home safety? again just askin.

Its a choice and I am very glad to see that now kahr has given everyone an option. Certainly the poll shows I and digger O'Dell are in the minority on this to..

[Barth]

why do most every long gun have safetys on them. LEO guns are no different. Just askin.

I think this no safety thing is certainly ones choice but IMO it is more of a macho thing to, as years back most all semi's had some kind of external safety, Again why do practicaly all 22 semi's have safetys on them? Just asking. Has someone

said that 22's are not good or ever used for defense or home safety? again just askin.

Its a choice and I am very glad to see that now kahr has given everyone an option. Certainly the poll shows I and digger O'Dell are in the minority on this to..

Lots of LEO guns are GLock and Sigs, likely most,
and neither have external safeties.

Most long guns don't have multiple internal safeties like handguns.
In fact I think the external safety on most long guns is the only safety.

[Popeye]

I don't think I'd ever not buy a DAO pistol with manual safety if I liked the gun and shot it well. The one nice thing about manual safeties is you can choose to use them or not. What I'm saying it would never be a deal breaker for me for or against. I had manual safety/decocker on my SA/DA Bersa Thunder .380 never found it to be and issue. Just never used it as a safety, I did as a decocker though. DAO though I don't really see a need for it, but I can see where some may take comfort in have one. As we used to say many years ago Different strokes for different folks.:D

[Tinman507]

99% of my handgun shooting is with a Kahr CM9 or a K9. Neither has a safety.
For fun plinking I have a Ruger SR22 that's got a safety and a decocker.
That thing messes me up everytime I shoot it. I look like an idiot for the first mag until I work out which direction to move it.
In a SHTF situation I don't think I'd like any self defense piece with an external safety.
Just my opinion. YMMV.

[O'Dell]

To me it is important to be consistent in my firearm training, and since my first handgun was a sig 226 (26 years old and never a malfunction) I decided that non of my carry guns would have a safety. I don't need to have a mental hesitation before I pull the trigger.


The P226 is a great gun. I've been a SIG fan since I bought my first in 1980. I've had several but never a P226. If yours is one of the older folded steel models, it's almost exactly the same size as my P220 and both weigh about 26 ozs. Currently, I only have two, the P220 and a 1911 C3. Recently, I've been tempted by some good prices on ex-police 2340's but I really don't need another 40 cal. However, in the last few years, I've sorta moved over to the HK's as they tend to be a bit lighter because of the polymer frame, and because [the subject of this thread] they have a manual safety. I have no problem carrying an HK cocked and locked in a good holster.

[Barth]

The P226 is a great gun. I've been a SIG fan since I bought my first in 1980. I've had several but never a P226. If yours is one of the older folded steel models, it's almost exactly the same size as my P220 and both weigh about 26 ozs. Currently, I only have two, the P220 and a 1911 C3. Recently, I've been tempted by some good prices on ex-police 2340's but I really don't need another 40 cal. However, in the last few years, I've sorta moved over to the HK's as they tend to be a bit lighter because of the polymer frame, and because [the subject of this thread] they have a manual safety. I have no problem carrying an HK cocked and locked in a good holster.

I think I said it before, but I'll say it again.
I was able to order my HK USP 45 compact without an external safety.
Just a hammer drop a la Sig Sauer.

I'm just saying...

[Yogi 117]

As a Glock, LCP, GP-100 & SP-101 owner, my preference is NO manual safety. As said many times, proper training (physical & mental) is key to maintaining a safe atmosphere in public & at home.

[Barth]

As a Glock, LCP, GP-100 & SP-101 owner, my preference is NO manual safety. As said many times, proper training (physical & mental) is key to maintaining a safe atmosphere in public & at home.

The only real safety is your finger.

With the exception of SA guns

[O'Dell]

I think I said it before, but I'll say it again.
I was able to order my HK USP 45 compact without an external safety.
Just a hammer drop a la Sig Sauer.

I'm just saying...

The key phrase is the you were able to order it w/o a safety. I was able to order my M&P's with a safety and you can with a Kahr too, but they normally come without, as the HK normally comes with. I can walk into a GS and buy an HK with a safety - I don't have to special order it. There no way to get one on a classic SIG though.

[O'Dell]

Lots of LEO guns are GLock and Sigs, likely most,
and neither have external safeties.



Yes but a lot of LEOs carry an HK with a safety. Also, in the first move from the revolvers, the most common Semi was the S&W, with a safety.

[Yogi 117]

The only real safety is your finger.

With the exception of SA guns
Exactly. The finger being the physical & the mental being between your ears!

[jocko]

Yes but a lot of LEOs carry an HK with a safety. Also, in the first move from the revolvers, the most common Semi was the S&W, with a safety.

u never hear of many LEO dept carrying HKs. Percentage wise it has to be very very low. Not sure HK can compete in the price range bidding like Glocks can.

[Markis82]

Yes but a lot of LEOs carry an HK with a safety. Also, in the first move from the revolvers, the most common Semi was the S&W, with a safety.The amount of law enforcement who carry H&K is 2.95%.
A lot?? I don't think so. That less than the 4.34% on the poll above, who don't think safeties are unneeded on DAO pistols.

[jocko]

Yes but a lot of LEOs carry an HK with a safety. Also, in the first move from the revolvers, the most common Semi was the S&W, with a safety.

it was the Illinois state boys who went first to the semi's Smith model 39

[Barth]

Source Wikipedia:
Glock pistols have become the company's most profitable line of products,
commanding 65% of the market share of handguns for United States law enforcement agencies[4]
as well as supplying numerous national armed forces, security agencies, and law enforcement agencies in 48 countries.

According to SIG Sauer, one-third of U.S. police use SIG firearms.[3]

As of 2011, Special Agents and Uniformed Division Officers
of The United States Secret Service
carry the SIG Sauer P229 pistol chambered for the .357 SIG cartridge.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
I'm beginning to see a pattern of no manual safeties by US LE for their officers.

[jocko]

Our Indiana DNR (conservation officers) carry sig 45's. Monstrous gun indeed.

[Barth]

Our Indiana DNR (conservation officers) carry sig 45's. Monstrous gun indeed.

I have a Sig P220/45. It's a full size service auto for sure.
But If you want to see big?
Pick up an HK Mark 23 45 and find out what a BIG 45 feels like.
http://www.streetpro.com/usp/images/ah-mark23.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Handguns/HkMk23.jpg

[JFootin]

I love the looks of this CZ. I'd have to have much bigger hands to grip it and reach the trigger, and Popeye forearms to hold it up. But...

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/CZ97B45ACP.jpg

[Barth]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5532/Product/MANUAL-SAFETY-KIT-FOR-GLOCK-reg-
MANUAL SAFETY KIT FOR GLOCK®
Helps Prevent Unintentional Discharges

Manually engaged safety lever provides an extra level of security and safety for Glock owners.
Blocks trigger movement, allows the slide to be cycled and pistol loaded or unloaded with the safety on.
Operates easily with your right-hand thumb. Contact pad is easy to engage, yet won’t interfere with holster fit.
All Glock passive safeties continue to function normally.
Gunsmith installation is recommended.
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_213000001_1.jpg

I don't want one, but for those that do?

[jocko]

check out SIDERLOCK.com. i HAVE ONE ON MY SONS g19, NO MODS NEEDED, ALL STEEL CONSTRUCTED, WORKS JUST LIKE THE GLOCK sas but the safety to me is right where it belongs. One doe snot nee dto use it either. It is top quality.

My son is ot as gun savvy as his dad is, so I opted to do this for him and I really like it as basically nothing inside the glock has changed and at least I am now into an all steel trigger..

[Tinman507]

Helps Prevent Unintentional Discharges

I usually think about baseball or doing my taxes. Works every time.

[jlottmc]

Personally, I can take a safety or leave it. That being said, I will not carry a 1911 without one. I realize that my noggin and booger hook are the best safety device out there, I also realize that things happen and happen quickly, therefore I train with all of them. Then there is the question of a DA/SA system like Sig, or Beretta, do those need one?