Which rifle

[gm412]

I have found myself without a rifle and have not kept up with them. I was wonder if anyone had a suggestion. I was thinking of an AR-15 but I live in California and looks like they modified them so much not sure they are worth it. The rifle would be a self deference all hell has broken out weapon. Also would like suggestion on a shotgun. I had a Browning Citori at one time. Like a good trap and/or skeet gun.

[Kahrdriver64]

If I had to choose just one SHTF rifle, I would go with my AR-10. It's just me but I don't have much respect for the 556 nato. As far as shotguns, a good ole winchester model 12 isn't a bad place to start. They aren't sexy but they saw use by law enforcement and military for nearly a century.

[Bawanna]

I agree with the lack of faith in the 223.

I'm finding myself enamored with the Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308.

Mag fed, bolt action reliability, forward optics. If I only had one, I think that would be the one or something similar.

I like good ole Mossberg 500's for a defense type shotgun, I have a Model 12 which are nice too but you gotta pay for a good one.

[HenryinFlorida]

Well, if you want a rifle for when "all hell breaks loose" I doubt that a bolt action would fit the bill. The AR platform would be better suited for that. You don't have to go with the .223/5.56 route. The lowers are the same for all. You can build the upper in 308 or 300 whisper. As far as being in CA goes. all rifles will be under the same magazine limits. you just have to get 10rd mags, and have a fixed stock I think. There's also something to do with the Mag release also I think, but all can be easily worked around. There are a ton of AR owners in Calif. I see them on the different AR forums. JUst my opinion.....they sure are fun to shoot and easy to work on.

[Kahrdriver64]

Henry is right on this one, I think. I've been watching the pistol cartridge AR's pretty closely. I hope to have a .40 AR carbine one day. Commonality of ammo is a plus for SHTF.

[Garland]

If you warm up to the .223/5.56, the S&W M&P15 Sport is a bargain if you can find one. I picked one up for $629 a few months ago. I recently bought an older Mossberg 500 also, just because everyone needs at least one.

[chrish]

Henry is right on this one, I think. I've been watching the pistol cartridge AR's pretty closely. I hope to have a .40 AR carbine one day. Commonality of ammo is a plus for SHTF.

I've been debating this for awhile, still no decision on my part. But I want a rifle, just can't decide, .22, AR, pistol caliber. I keep coming back to a pistol caliber, 9mm, for that exact reason...commonality of ammo. Then maybe a .22 of some kind.

I just can't see a scenario where I need to reach out, given my skillset, needs, plans. I don't hunt, have no plans to, if things get THAT bad, well, I suppose I'll just give up. I don't intend on fighting a war, if it gets that bad, same story. If a target is further away than a pistol caliber is effective, then I just need to get the heck out of that area, or sit it out hoping the need for closer range doesn't materialize. SHTF, I just want to sit tight and be able to protect my self coming and going wherever.

The more I read in the news, the more I am disgusted, but in the end...I am only going to be able to defend my immediate family and my immediate area and I don't see the need for anything past 50-100yds or less.

My plans HAD been something like...
- Smith M&P Sport
- Ruger 10/22 or Smith 15-22
- My handguns

Lately, been shifting to...
- Sig 516 10" or a pistol caliber full AR rifle
- Ruger 10/22
- My handguns

Definitely interested in others thoughts.

[Barth]

I only have a shorty 12 gauge.
But have almost bought a Ruger Mini-14 on occasion.
They are worth a look.

[TheTman]

Keltec makes the Sub2000 carbine in 9mm and .40. It accepts pistol magazines, Glock or Beretta. I think Melissa has one, she might be able to tell you more about it. MSRP is around $400.
You might be able to find a used Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm.
Hi-Point also makes a neat little 9mm carbine with the MSRP starting at under $300.

CDNN Sports has a Sub200 in their last flyer I received for $299.

[Kahrdriver64]

I've seen good reviews on the Sub2000 and it does fit a niche since it folds into such a small size. The Hi-point just seems too heavy to me. If memory serves they weigh in in the 8 lb range. The downside to both from my understanding is they do not hold up well to high volume shooting. But at their price point they have to be considered.

The discontinued Ruger Police Carbine is another candidate I've looked at, too.

[Kahrdriver64]

Although the 762 nato does a great job at distance, I chose it for its penetration capabilities. Most body armor and most automobiles can't be defeated with the 556 and not many handgun rounds do the job either.

[Ken_K]

For a SHTF rifle I'd have to go with a simple AR-15. 16" lightweight barrel, mid length gas system, an AimPoint or Eotech sight, and a quality light mount and light. As far .223 goes, I have plenty of faith in that cartridge because I don't have to shoot NATO approved projectiles http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg820/scaled.php?server=820&filename=smileysmartass.gif&res=landing

[Alfonse]

I have a Ruger PC4, it's nice. Consider an M1a, loaded, SOCOM or otherwise as well. You haven't mentioned an Ithaca shotgun which is just another option. You can't really go wrong with anything that's been mentioned.

[Bawanna]

I like the Scout Squad, very similar to the SOCOM but wood stocked.

I blew it, I was looking at them prior to the last election and drug my feet, they more than doubled and completely dried up almost over night.

Now they are available but the price is still ridiculous.

[TheTman]

How about a S&W 629 or Ruger Super Redhawk and a Henry Big Boy in .44 mag? Just kiddin mostly, but that's a pair I'd pack for hunting or self preservation. That Big Boy is a beautiful gun.

[scoose]

Man there are soo many SHTF rifles!! One piece of info that is missing is what your budget is. As mentioned before the AR platform is a great choice!! The M4 is a great rifle but the debate on the .223 rages on and on....IMHO it's a great round and serves its purpose very well. The AR10 is a great rifle and there is no doubt about the .308 round. Have you thought about The AR platform with a 9mm upper?? Add a can and its whisper quiet. No one mentioned an AK!?!?!?!?!?! Talk about a SHTF rifle!!!

Heck when you get down to it FN PS90, HK G3, KRISS Super V or the HK MP7 are all viable candidates!! We need more data from ya!!!

Too Many questions unanswered:

What are you looking to spend?
Spray weapon or long range accuracy?
Heavy 200+yd round or CQB light round?
Cutting edge or tried and true??

[gm412]

Man there are soo many SHTF rifles!! One piece of info that is missing is what your budget is. As mentioned before the AR platform is a great choice!! The M4 is a great rifle but the debate on the .223 rages on and on....IMHO it's a great round and serves its purpose very well. The AR10 is a great rifle and there is no doubt about the .308 round. Have you thought about The AR platform with a 9mm upper?? Add a can and its whisper quiet. No one mentioned an AK!?!?!?!?!?! Talk about a SHTF rifle!!!

Heck when you get down to it FN PS90, HK G3, KRISS Super V or the HK MP7 are all viable candidates!! We need more data from ya!!!

Too Many questions unanswered:

What are you looking to spend?
Spray weapon or long range accuracy?
Heavy 200+yd round or CQB light round?
Cutting edge or tried and true??

Thanks for all the great replies. Now I have my homework cut out for me.

Spend 300-1000 preferred but willing to go much higher if needed.
Spray vrs long range. - I guess more of a rapid fire too many people too damn close.
Round - here I am not sure. Have not used rifles except a 22 in a long time.
Cutting edge or tried and true - either.

Looking at these suggestions so far I am thinking about getting 2. Maybe an AR and something like a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308.

[scoose]

That Big Boy is a beautiful gun.

Damn Skippy <Drool>

[scoose]

Maybe an AR and something like a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308.


Oooo The Ruger Scout is sexay! :D I wouldn't think of it as a SHTF rifle but it's an attractive accurate rifle for sure.

[TheTman]

Agreed, AK's make a great SHTF rifle. I like the 7.62 x 39 much better than the .556 round. AK may not be as accurate as the AR's but good enough to keep the rabble at bay. SKS also isn't a bad rifle if you add a few things, too bad the Norinco's are gone.
I paid $105.00 for a new one back in the 90's. The Yugo variants are going for under $300 at some places, I saw some for $250 at Classic Firearms, the stock was cracked but that's not problem to replace. If you look at an AK I've heard the Hungarian? WASP variants are not so good.

[jg rider]

Call me old fashion, but as a follower of Mel Tappin's writings on surviving after a neucular attack, or anarchy after the collapse of the government or what ever (You youngsters probably don't know who I'm talking about), I'm a believer in weapons conversions and ammo availability along with portability.

Shot guns with slugs mean close in artillery to me. And the long barrels are good for hunting

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Shot%20Guns/01Rem11-87.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Shot%20Guns/02Rem870.jpg

This .44 mag is good for fast, in close work or good out to 100+ yds with plenty of f.p.of e. left. The ammo is also good for a handgun

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Marlin/07Marlin629.jpg

Yep! Everybody needs one of these

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Spikes/003.jpg


But with one of these .22 conversions for what ever.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/AR%2015/04AR.jpg

I had to throw this one in, again because of it's versatility

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Spikes/4MechTech1.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jgriders/Spikes/5MechTech2.jpg

[Popeye]

I do not have a problem with the Nato 556/223 round. I like the newer mini 14's. The one rifle that I think has so many uses and especially since your from Cali is the Lever action 30/30. For short range home defense I like the Mossberg Crusier 20 ga..

[Bill K]

I've been debating this for awhile, still no decision on my part. But I want a rifle, just can't decide, .22, AR, pistol caliber. I keep coming back to a pistol caliber, 9mm, for that exact reason...commonality of ammo. Then maybe a .22 of some kind.

I just can't see a scenario where I need to reach out, given my skillset, needs, plans. I don't hunt, have no plans to, if things get THAT bad, well, I suppose I'll just give up. I don't intend on fighting a war, if it gets that bad, same story. If a target is further away than a pistol caliber is effective, then I just need to get the heck out of that area, or sit it out hoping the need for closer range doesn't materialize. SHTF, I just want to sit tight and be able to protect my self coming and going wherever.

The more I read in the news, the more I am disgusted, but in the end...I am only going to be able to defend my immediate family and my immediate area and I don't see the need for anything past 50-100yds or less.

My plans HAD been something like...
- Smith M&P Sport
- Ruger 10/22 or Smith 15-22
- My handguns

Lately, been shifting to...
- Sig 516 10" or a pistol caliber full AR rifle
- Ruger 10/22
- My handguns

Definitely interested in others thoughts.

Chrish, if it is that bad you could very well be pressed into service. Into a local militia or some such organization. Your family and community might best be served and protected by your joining others to man road blocks, outpost, listening posts, guarding facilities, patrolling community borders and the like. There could be a shortage of arms to issue and having your own rifle could very well come in handy.

[jg rider]

Chrish, if it is that bad you could very well be pressed into service. Into a local militia or some such organization. Your family and community might best be served and protected by your joining others to man road blocks, outpost, listening posts, guarding facilities, patrolling community borders and the like. There could be a shortage of arms to issue and having your own rifle could very well come in handy.

A commune made up of people with manual skills would be good. Also think about what to use for bartering, and what to use as cash.
I'm getting too deep into this!

[QuercusMax]

I have found myself without a rifle and have not kept up with them. I was wonder if anyone had a suggestion. I was thinking of an AR-15 but I live in California and looks like they modified them so much not sure they are worth it. The rifle would be a self deference all hell has broken out weapon. Also would like suggestion on a shotgun. I had a Browning Citori at one time. Like a good trap and/or skeet gun.

For a SHTF situation, the first consideration is where you live. Sorry, but if it's California, unless you are in the boondocks it's not going to matter much which brand and caliber of weapon you have, with the possible exception of some weapon that is clearly illegal.

Regarding which rifle is best, well, it's like asking which car is the best?

We can debate Chevy vs. Ford until the cows come home (mine just did), but for a weapon, it comes down to what you can afford and what works the best for you.

If you lived in Pakistan or similar, that might an AK-47 or clone. In our country, even California, the AR platform offers the widest flexibility of parts, options, and ammo availability, not withstanding all the doubts people have about 223/5.56. Our military uses this caliber and platform for good reasons.

Also, another thing everyone forgets in SHTF situations is that you have to be able to carry all this stuff. That's one of the main reasons for the 223/5.56 round, and also an argument against many weapons.

But I'm still wondering who is actually going to attack us?

Buy a rifle for fun. I'm really enjoying my M&P 15-22 right now. Looks and acts like an AR, with no regard for ammo cost at all.

[Kahrdriver64]

A commune made up of people with manual skills would be good. Also think about what to use for bartering, and what to use as cash.
I'm getting too deep into this!

I would think having the means, skills, and temperament to provide a defense would be a highly valued asset after the SHTF. Some buy gold, others silver, I stockpile ammo!

[jg rider]

I would think having the means, skills, and temperament to provide a defense would be a highly valued asset after the SHTF. Some buy gold, others silver, I stockpile ammo!

Blue collars , doctors, dentists, psychiatrists, etc. Politicians & lawyers need not apply. :)
IMHO, common use ammo is great for bartering. Gold and silver would be goo to have once things stablize

[yote]

Rifle: AR platform or Ruger Mini 14 or 30
Shotgun: Remington 870

Just my $0.02

[chrish]

Bill_K and jg_rider,

Good points, yes, I have thought of both scenarios (local security or larger scope militia) and that'd be the one and only reason I could see needing to own/have something more like an AR or AK, full size. But I start thinking like that, then I start getting all wrapped around an axle and thinking I gotta fill the garage w/ ammo and food and line the walls in my siding home w/ steel plates. Yea, I know, that's and extreme thought process, but it is what it is. Trying to stay sane in the face of our country's slow progression toward stupidity.

Ultimately, my dad and I have both thought about building ARs as a fun project, just have yet to do it (money+time). But I suspect one of us will end up w/ one sooner rather than later. So that's one at least.

[DKD]

Someone earlier posted that the AR platform lowers are the same for all calibers...thats not true. The typical 556mmm AR uses the smaller lower and it will work with 6.5mmm Grendel and possibly 264 caliber as well as the pistol calibers. Not so with the .308 NATO type calibers in the standard platform. Thats the reason they call the .308 the AR-10 cause they need a larger Magazine well for the larger rounds.
A basic 22 rim fire, a 12 gauge pump shotgun and an AR-15 as far as rifles and a couple 9mm or 45 acp's pistols and you will be very well armed indeed.
Like JG RIDER I have one of those conversion Units for the 45 ACP...make for great flexability and makes for a wicked nasty little carbine.

[Bawanna]

"But I start thinking like that, then I start getting all wrapped around an axle and thinking I gotta fill the garage w/ ammo and food and line the walls in my siding home w/ steel plates. "

You haven't done all that already?:eek:

It might already be too late, the hoarding has already started. Steel plate prices are record high, Bang sticks will continue to be harder and harder to find and if common sense doesn't win in the next election it may never get better.

[Barth]

I keep thinking AK or AR.
Kind of thinking AK just for reliability.
But If I can't carry it why have it?
I've got the Mossy 12 gauge.
Could always run slugs if I want.

Don't know much about rifles and find it hard to get excited
about them.

Except there is that Mares Leg...
Mmmmmmmm
http://scifi-tv.ru/images/news/Warehouse_13_Gina_Torres.jpghttp://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/H006CML.jpg

[scotty_MK9]

Cant go wrong with an ak47... Rugged and reliable. Mite be over powered for the home though.

[Barth]

Cant go wrong with an ak47... Rugged and reliable. Mite be over powered for the home though.

I can't have too much power captain.

I'm a handgun guy and will reach for them first every time.
If things have broken down to using an AK?
All hell's breaking lose and it's damn the torpedoes and fire at will.

By then I've emptied my 44/357 mags and am going to let everything go.

[TheTman]

I went AK because of cost/performance compared with an AR at the time. Also you can legally hunt deer here with the AK, but not the AR15, you have to use at least a 6mm bullet. Not that I bought it for deer hunting, but it could be pressed into service for that if needed. What I really want is an FN-FAL in 308, or possibly and HK-G3, or even an AR10. A Springfield Armory M1A would work too. Probably ought to get an AR15 just for compatibility with the Army's primary rifle, although I keep hearing they are thinking of replacing the M-16 with something newer, I suppose if I buy an AR15 they surely will. That design is getting around 50 years old now.

[jeepster09]

I agree with the lack of faith in the 223.

I'm finding myself enamored with the Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308.

Mag fed, bolt action reliability, forward optics. If I only had one, I think that would be the one or something similar.

I like good ole Mossberg 500's for a defense type shotgun, I have a Model 12 which are nice too but you gotta pay for a good one.


Mmmmm Gunsite Scout....;)


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1295.jpg

[jeepster09]

For a SHTF situation, the first consideration is where you live. Sorry, but if it's California, unless you are in the boondocks it's not going to matter much which brand and caliber of weapon you have, with the possible exception of some weapon that is clearly illegal.

Regarding which rifle is best, well, it's like asking which car is the best?

We can debate Chevy vs. Ford until the cows come home (mine just did), but for a weapon, it comes down to what you can afford and what works the best for you.

If you lived in Pakistan or similar, that might an AK-47 or clone. In our country, even California, the AR platform offers the widest flexibility of parts, options, and ammo availability, not withstanding all the doubts people have about 223/5.56. Our military uses this caliber and platform for good reasons.

Also, another thing everyone forgets in SHTF situations is that you have to be able to carry all this stuff. That's one of the main reasons for the 223/5.56 round, and also an argument against many weapons.

But I'm still wondering who is actually going to attack us?

Buy a rifle for fun. I'm really enjoying my M&P 15-22 right now. Looks and acts like an AR, with no regard for ammo cost at all.


Who's going to attack us?......Your neighbors when the economy totally collapses and nobody has nothing and like one novel I read, the Chinese to reclaim all their equity on our debt......makes you go hmmmm :eek:

[Bawanna]

I forgot you had one Jeepster, I gotta start keeping better notes.

Maybe you could share your thoughts on it when you have the time. Good points, bad points etc etc.

Either here or via PM.

I figure I can be running the bolt accurately while the AR's are spraying and praying and cleaning and lubing, replacing gas rings and tubes and carbon build up and dressing them like a Mr. Potato Head when the action is slow.

Edit to add, I see what threw me now. You added a long rail on top and mounted a conventional scope so the forward scope look isn't there. I like it very much and you still have the option of going forward if you wish.

Be nice for a flip up rear sight too.

[gm412]

I went to the local gun shop and they say they cannot Eyven order the gunsite scout. I think I found the ar I might buy but very interstead n the gunsite scout. Please let me know how you like it. The guy at the shop said hey has sold a few in the past. He said the people liked it but that they did not love it either. I sure like the looks and what I have read about it is good also.

I am thinking about getting a Windham Weapony AR. They are the old bushmaster. Looked at one and really liked it. Only thing i don't like barrel kis one turn for 9"

[Barth]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/cmr314/serenity345.jpghttp://www.leninimports.com/steve_mcqueen_gallery_6.jpghttp://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/FireflyZoeGun2.jpg
http://l.yimg.com/img.omg.yahoo.com/omg/us/img/9a/a4/415_8978689410.jpg

[jlottmc]

I'm a bit surprised that no one mentioned a Moisin-Nagant. They can be had cheaply, are rugged as anything, surprisingly accurate, and are the ballistic twin to the .308. Yes it's an old bolt gin and stripper clips are really nice, but its good stuff.

[ParabellumJ]

May I throw the .308 M1A into the ring as a .223/5.56 alternative? My bud has one and its a hard hitting s.o.b. As far as a shotty...Mossberg 500 is hard to beat.

[jg rider]

I've been debating this for awhile, still no decision on my part. But I want a rifle, just can't decide, .22, AR, pistol caliber. I keep coming back to a pistol caliber, 9mm, for that exact reason...commonality of ammo. Then maybe a .22 of some kind.

I just can't see a scenario where I need to reach out, given my skillset, needs, plans. I don't hunt, have no plans to, if things get THAT bad, well, I suppose I'll just give up. I don't intend on fighting a war, if it gets that bad, same story. If a target is further away than a pistol caliber is effective, then I just need to get the heck out of that area, or sit it out hoping the need for closer range doesn't materialize. SHTF, I just want to sit tight and be able to protect my self coming and going wherever.

The more I read in the news, the more I am disgusted, but in the end...I am only going to be able to defend my immediate family and my immediate area and I don't see the need for anything past 50-100yds or less.


This made me think of an old friend whose strategy is, in case of a group attack, is to shoot at them as a lone person with small caliber fire. Once they B.G.s get up the courage to advance closer, then he and his wife will open up with the big guns. I believe there is so validity in this plan.
Now my immediate family is my wife and she'll have to be able to defend herself which she can. Years back when we had a young son at home he was handling firearms at a very young age, and competing at 12 yrs old. I like to think that if the SHTF back then he would protect himself.


For a SHTF situation, the first consideration is where you live. Sorry, but if it's California, unless you are in the boondocks it's not going to matter much which brand and caliber of weapon you have, with the possible exception of some weapon that is clearly illegal.

Also, another thing everyone forgets in SHTF situations is that you have to be able to carry all this stuff. That's one of the main reasons for the 223/5.56 round, and also an argument against many weapons.

But I'm still wondering who is actually going to attack us?

If we had to bug out, which I don't see happening, when broken down all the firearms I posted above will fit in a duffel bag.

Probably for those of us that live in rural areas, I don't see the SHTF. But in urban areas, I imagine mutated violent occupiers.


Bill_K and jg_rider,

Good points, yes, I have thought of both scenarios (local security or larger scope militia) and that'd be the one and only reason I could see needing to own/have something more like an AR or AK, full size.


chris,
If someone lived in a city I possibly would think hand guns an/or shotguns. But you live in a rural area with your closest neighbor 1/4 mile like we do, long guns are the way to go.


I went AK because of cost/performance compared with an AR at the time. Also you can legally hunt deer here with the AK, but not the AR15, you have to use at least a 6mm bullet. Not that I bought it for deer hunting, but it could be pressed into service for that if needed. What I really want is an FN-FAL in 308, or possibly and HK-G3, or even an AR10. A Springfield Armory M1A would work too. Probably ought to get an AR15 just for compatibility with the Army's primary rifle, although I keep hearing they are thinking of replacing the M-16 with something newer, I suppose if I buy an AR15 they surely will. That design is getting around 50 years old now.

I've had FNFal .308, HK 91 and a 93, match grade Springfield M1A, Israeli Gallil
When I was in my late 30s and early 40s, and moderately fit, I used all of these in competition where I had to shoot and move. After a while they got too heavy and fatigue set in early. And some weren't reliable, especially the M1A. IMO competition is the place to find out how reliable your piece is and if you can handle it.
I went back to what I knew and carried for long periods of time during the Nam era, the AR platform. Except in 1:9 twist 5.56 using the 62 gr. ss109 or the newer 77 gr. I don't think if the SHTF I'd be going against body armor.



I figure I can be running the bolt accurately while the AR's are spraying and praying and cleaning and lubing, replacing gas rings and tubes and carbon build up and dressing them like a Mr. Potato Head when the action is slow.


Did you mean to put a smilie with that statement? :)
ARs are 1 shot accurate for head shots out past 100 yrds, and fast for follow up shots. Any further then that I'm not gonna give away my presence. I clean and lube mine about every 500 rnds. or more and never had any malfunctions. In the thousands of rounds through my ARs, I've never had to replace gas rings or tubes. The days of carbon build up are long gone.

I thought you had ARs :confused:


I'm a bit surprised that no one mentioned a Moisin-Nagant. They can be had cheaply, are rugged as anything, surprisingly accurate, and are the ballistic twin to the .308. Yes it's an old bolt gin and stripper clips are really nice, but its good stuff.

If it were me I'd keep away from any firearm that ammo isn't readily available.
For me that would include 7mm. I'd go .22, 5.56, 30-30, 308, 12 ga, and my favorite 30.06

Damn! I thought I outgrew this stuff. But I'm rethinking things with this embarrassing current regime

[chrish]

jg_rider, thanks for those thoughts. all good points.

i'm neither in the city or the country. basically suburbia of a small city/town. so houses pretty much on top of each other in my neighborhood.

so i've always focused on handguns. always thought at some point i'd look into both a basic pump shotgun and some kind of a rifle, AR, Mini 14, something. but shooting for me has always been a hobby. just something fun to go out and do w/ the family. more and more, i see the need/desire to carry. as w/ all areas of the country were people historically have felt pretty safe, crime is getting worse and worse here. i mean, it's not big city, hundreds or millions of people bad crime, but worse than what it used to be. i can honestly say alot of what i hear on the news in my town is significantly worse than when i was a kid 30 years ago. so until i can't, i'll be continuing to expand the 'collection' of firearms and supplies. not going to be a nat geo prepper, but i'm going to have some level of preparedness in the coming months/years.

[Popeye]

I'm a bit surprised that no one mentioned a Moisin-Nagant. They can be had cheaply, are rugged as anything, surprisingly accurate, and are the ballistic twin to the .308. Yes it's an old bolt gin and stripper clips are really nice, but its good stuff.

Agree with everything you said about the Mosin. Down side is there long heavy and a bolt action. That's why I said I'd take the Mini 14 or the lever action 30/30. I have an M1 Garand and a Mosin Nagant and there great fun to shoot rifles but for someone just getting into rifles and wants it for all around use there are better choices out there. IMO. Always wanted an M1 carbine till I got the Mini14 ranch rifle. IMO Ruger really did a nice job on the newer 580 series mini's.

[Bawanna]

I just got back from a gunshow and one of my go to guys had a Ruger Gunsite SCout on his table. I'm in love. I was surprised at the weight or lack there of.
Less than 6 1/2 pounds on his scale. We were made for each other.

My son scored a Enfield Mark 4 -2, been looking, took both of our money's to get it but it's home.

[jlottmc]

Which one the Enfield or the scout rifle? Also, ammo for the Nagant is cheap, plus it really doesn't weigh that much. Compare it to an AK or 30-30 with wood furniture and it is still good to go. It is long though, and so is the bayonet, but there are a couple of carbine versions to be had. Did I mention cost effective? You can have a 91/30 and close to 500 rounds of ammo for about $200. Not that bad a choice. A bolt gun is still a viable option, it works, its easy to learn, and is effective especially at distance.

[Bawanna]

Son got the Enfield. I had to leave the scout behind at least till next month. He offered to just hang onto it but there's not even much hope of thinking I'll have 800 disposable dollars by next month.

Wife quickly pointed out that I was smart letting the boy buy and not buy myself which was like a cup of salt in an open wound.
Also pointed out that I already got a new gun this month, actually one a month for the last 3 months but one was for her, course that still counts towards my count which I'm not sure who's counting or why or what a month has to do with anything.

[jlottmc]

Ahhh wemins math. It'll make your head hurt. I have the same problem, I finally got the truck paid off, and still have yet to see dime one from the payment to play with.

[Tinman507]

Wife quickly pointed out that I was smart letting the boy buy and not buy myself which was like a cup of salt in an open wound.

Ok, Dr. Tinman prescribes a stiff Margarita to go with that salt. Partly in honor of Cinqo de Mayo but also because my bride is much more amenable to decisions like this when slurping down frozen Margaritas. Ply her with booze and then go for the Rifle.

This has been an unsolicted house call from Dr. Tinman. Do not try this at home. I am a trained professional.

[les strat]

For me:

Rifle - AK with a red dot. Hard to beat an AK

Shotty - Mossberg 18.5" 12 gauge persuader with AR stock and night sight bead

Pistol - G30 or S&W 629 .44 mag

But I sold them all when I realised that guns are evil :)

[jg rider]

Son got the Enfield. I had to leave the scout behind at least till next month. He offered to just hang onto it but there's not even much hope of thinking I'll have 800 disposable dollars by next month.

Wife quickly pointed out that I was smart letting the boy buy and not buy myself which was like a cup of salt in an open wound.
Also pointed out that I already got a new gun this month, actually one a month for the last 3 months but one was for her, course that still counts towards my count which I'm not sure who's counting or why or what a month has to do with anything.

Have you tried deniablity. Claim that it's always been in the safe. I've tried it.

[gm412]

I just got back from a gunshow and one of my go to guys had a Ruger Gunsite SCout on his table. I'm in love. I was surprised at the weight or lack there of.
Less than 6 1/2 pounds on his scale. We were made for each other.

My son scored a Enfield Mark 4 -2, been looking, took both of our money's to get it but it's home.

Surprised you even found one. I have been calling and searching the net for one without any luck. Really interested in this rifle since you pointed it out. Originally I was just going to get one rifle, but know I got an AR and looking for a gunsite scout. Looks like a very cool rifle. Like you though I have already exceeded my limit this month.

[Bawanna]

Surprised you even found one. I have been calling and searching the net for one without any luck. Really interested in this rifle since you pointed it out. Originally I was just going to get one rifle, but know I got an AR and looking for a gunsite scout. Looks like a very cool rifle. Like you though I have already exceeded my limit this month.

There were several of them on Gunbroker the last couple weeks, many left handers too. Was kind of surprised.

They are kind of hard to find in person, only saw one other one and that was a long time ago.

I kind of think if I only had one rifle this would be it but I am a little beyond one rifle so not really a good consideration but I still want one.

[gm412]

OK I found a Gunsite Scout only 30 min from my house. But it list for 999.00 and they said they will not come down since this gun is so hard to get. I see on the Internet when they are available they go for 750-850. Can't find any that are not on backorder. I want this rifle bad. But, I don't think I should pay that much.

[jlottmc]

Not to be a smartass but you basically have two choices: 1. buy it and forget about the price difference (Ruger is currently not accepting new orders until supposedly this month sometime in order to catch up) 2. wait. Those two options give you heart burn either way. I say if you want it bad enough and you have the cabbage, go for it and forget about the price difference. A year from now or maybe later you won't remember that part, and if you do it'll be because you had to think about it.

[Bawanna]

They are out there, not easy but findable. I would not pay 999 unless you need it today.

There are several on gunbroker. My dealer yesterday offered it to me for 800 out the door including tax.

I'd hunt the internet. Like everything else it might be a while but supply will catch up with demand and hopefully customers will remember these gouging dealers and teach them some lessons.

[getsome]

Anybody see the American Guns show last week where they made a Mares leg in 500 S&W? Now thats a bit of overkill but would be interesing...

For SHTF time I believe a good quality .22 rifle is a must have...You can carry a ton of ammo and it can be used against 2 leg predators as well as being able to take small game for food...I put a good .22 rifle (prefer lever action, no magazines to lose) right up there with food, water and shelter as a necessary survival tool...

Any good 12 or 20 gauge pump shotgun is also a must (Think ammo availability and go for the 20 as it is as effective as a 12 and can be had in 00 buck and slugs and in a SHTF situation 12 gauge will fly off the shelves much faster than 20)...A shotgun is THE tool to have when bad men come in the darkness of night...

I also think old school when it comes to a larger hunting/defense rifle and throw out a vote for a lever action in either 30-30 or .44 mag such as a Marlin 336 or Trapper .44 carbine...They will take most any game smaller than a bear and anything on 2 legs and ammo is everywhere...You can reload on the move and they are accurate out to 75-100 yards and even farther with a decent scope...A lever action is light weight, reliable as a hammer and need little or no maintenance even after firing hundreds of rounds....Sometimes old school is not so bad after all, look at how many 100 year old design 1911's are on the job!!!

I think ammo availability would be a major problem in a SHTF deal and 5.56 and .308 would rapidly become hard to find if not impossible even though both are NATO rounds you can bet the Military and Police aren't going to share theirs so if you plan to use these calibers IMHO it would be wise to stock up before the store shelves are bare....

Pick whichever design suites you but realize that when that time comes and I think it will, a rifle and pleanty of ammo will be indispensable to your future health and well being...

[tv_racin_fan]

Dunno how much it was but the local place had a lefty the other day.

[tv_racin_fan]

If you wait till SHTF ammo wont be an issue because there will not be any to be had unless you take it from someone else which makes 22lr, 9mm, 45acp, 308, and 556 among the better choices.

[Kahrdriver64]

Have you tried deniablity. Claim that it's always been in the safe. I've tried it.

Hahahaha. Now that's funny! And there is some value in having alot of guns. You can trade instead of buy. (hides the cash from her). And she can't keep up with what's new and what you bought a while back.

[gm412]

Like when I wanted a bass boat. I knew my wife would not want one. I bought one and put it in the driveway. When she came home and asked I said "Some guy drove by backed the boat in the driveway and threw me the keys. Yes she knew I was lying. Yes she checked the bank to find a rather large amount of money had been spent at the boat shop. Yes she complained. But I have a bass boat. :D

[Bawanna]

I used up the deniability ruse years and years ago. I'll take an empty gun case with me when I leave and try to come home with it full but my kids will usually rat me out or black mail me.
My son bought the Enfield last weekend and her first question was is it his or mine and he's carrying it???????

Now I subscribe to the one argument philosophy.

If I want something bad enough I just buy it if I think we have enough money.
If I ask we argue about how we need other things and I have enough guns and life isn't fair and you can't have everything you want.

So then I but it anyway and then we argue again about all the same issues above.

So now I just buy and save one argument. I may still not get everything I want but when I want something bad enough I'll find a way and you can take that to the bank and draw interest.

[jg rider]

I've also tried the "It's an investment in our future" ploy
She walks away and starts to put a sheet and a blanket on the couch, and mumbles something. I think she says "If you don't stop you're not going to have a future"


I used up the deniability ruse years and years ago. I'll take an empty gun case with me when I leave and try to come home with it full .

OF COARSE! The old "empty gun case trick".
Alternate plan # 3

[tv_racin_fan]

Bawanna I have to say I also subscribe to that phylosophy. In my case the wife does the same thing.. as long as the power don't get cut off/or I aint relegated to rice n beans for a month, I can handle it.

I never tried to hide it.. I talk in my sleep.

[Bawanna]

Bawanna I have to say I also subscribe to that phylosophy. In my case the wife does the same thing.. as long as the power don't get cut off/or I aint relegated to rice n beans for a month, I can handle it.

I never tried to hide it.. I talk in my sleep.

That's a big bingo right there and I never ever tell her no because of cost. If she ask for something I say get it.

I've told her no a few times on horses and dogs and stuff but it was a total waste of my vocal cords, we got the horse and the dogs anyhow so I got no issue with a gun now and again even if she says no.

[Kahrdriver64]

I've also tried the "It's an investment in our future" ploy
She walks away and starts to put a sheet and a blanket on the couch, and mumbles something. I think she says "If you don't stop you're not going to have a future"



OF COARSE! The old "empty gun case trick".
Alternate plan # 3

Hold on now. Some of my guns ARE investments. Definitely the ones with waffen marks. I have the best situation yet. 50% ownership in an FFL. "the company owns it"!