Shooting one handed, with the off hand

[AIRret]

When you shoot one handed, with the off hand do you do anything special. I move my dominant eye as far over my off hand as possible. It seems to work well, but I'm always open to improve my shooting.
Plus, My case might be different since I switched shooting hands last November.

[Mudcat]

I tilt the gun to bring it in line with my right eye. This also leaps to control recoil and keep from limp wristing. I do the same for shooting strong hand only.


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[Rubb]

I tilt the gun to bring it in line with my right eye. This also leaps to control recoil and keep from limp wristing. I do the same for shooting strong hand only.


Yep, tilt the gun gangster style.. lines up the sights.. feels more natural.. a lot less tilt with strong hand.

[AIRret]

Interesting, I've seen the gun tilt in some u-tube videos. I'll have to experiment with that technique.

[Rubb]

Interesting, I've seen the gun tilt in some u-tube videos. I'll have to experiment with that technique.

Point at something with your weak hand....notice the palm direction.

[AIRret]

Yep, I can see it.
I love shooting one handed; strong and weak side. I'd do it even if there WAS NOT a good reason.

[JFootin]

When you shoot one handed, with the off hand do you do anything special. I move my dominant eye as far over my off hand as possible. It seems to work well, but I'm always open to improve my shooting.
Plus, My case might be different since I switched shooting hands last November.

Whaaat?


I tilt the gun to bring it in line with my right eye. This also leaps to control recoil and keep from limp wristing. I do the same for shooting strong hand only.

How does tilting the gun line it up with your right eye any better than holding it upright?


Yep, tilt the gun gangster style.. lines up the sights.. feels more natural.. a lot less tilt with strong hand.

WTH are you people talking about?


Point at something with your weak hand....notice the palm direction.

Do you mean point with your pointy finger or with the gun in your weak hand? And what are we supposed to notice about the palm direction?

What have you people been drinking?

[chrish]

I'm going w/ JFootin on wondering what you guys mean. Tilting 'gansta' style is not good support, even w/ your weak hand. If you are using two hands, and want to pull a C.A.R. technique, go for it. But you still need two hands for that.

If are shooting one handed, weak or strong, you need to have the gun upright. That's the ONLY stable hold you can have...your skeletal structure and muscles are the same on both sides of your body. Same principles apply, accept that it's uncomfortable b/c you don't use it as much.

If you are having trouble sighting on the weak side, you should rotate your head so your dominate eye is in line w/ your sights and target. If you are cross dominate, that becomes really easy. I'm cross dominate and it took a heck of alot of retraining of bad habits to shoot w/ my strong/dominate hand b/c I sighted w/ my non-dominate eye and didn't know it...eons ago that is.

In my opinion, being cross dominate makes weak hand shooting easier because your eye is in line w/ that weak hand. Same side dominance makes weak hand shooting more difficult because you have to cross your dominate eye to the opposite hand...harder and more uncomfortable if you ask me.

[AJBert]

I've been blessed to be left eye dominant yet shoot right handed. Shooting off hand weak handed works out perfect for me. Just have to remember to use my left eye which is pretty easy.

[ParabellumJ]

If are shooting one handed, weak or strong, you need to have the gun upright. That's the ONLY stable hold you can have...your skeletal structure and muscles are the same on both sides of your body. Same principles apply, accept that it's uncomfortable b/c you don't use it as much.

If you are having trouble sighting on the weak side, you should rotate your head so your dominate eye is in line w/ your sights and target. If you are cross dominate, that becomes really easy. I'm cross dominate and it took a heck of alot of retraining of bad habits to shoot w/ my strong/dominate hand b/c I sighted w/ my non-dominate eye and didn't know it...eons ago that is.

In my opinion, being cross dominate makes weak hand shooting easier because your eye is in line w/ that weak hand. Same side dominance makes weak hand shooting more difficult because you have to cross your dominate eye to the opposite hand...harder and more uncomfortable if you ask me.

Agree 100%. I am right-handed/left eye dominant and aligning my sights weak handed is easier because my dominant eye lines up perfectly with the sights. Its when shooting strong hand with a 1 hand grip I rotate my head to align my dominant eye with the sights (much like I do with my standard 2 hand grip). Holding the gun "Gansta" style is not proper technique IMO.

[O'Dell]

In my introduction to hand guns, I was taught to shoot one handed at a Marine Corp range with the Colt 45. There was no 'cant' and we just tucked the weak hand in our hip pocket. It must have worked because I had never fired a pistol in my life and qualified expert on the first day. I got expert with the M1 two days later. I don't really remember when I switched to two hands, but it must have been in the late seventies.

[chrish]

IMO, holding at a 2:00 rotation only works if you are doing something like C.A.R. But then you are using both hands to get proper support and maintain that same hold in relation to your arm. You really aren't holding sideways/angled when using C.A.R. w/ regard to your body.

When you are in that 2:00 gansta hold, as described by the C.A.R. proponents and the guy that developed it, you don't have proper support and your body is not designed to support it that way. You need that extra hand and even then, the angle coupled w/ both hands your body is still holding it in line w/ your skeleton. It doesn't work that way when you are using just the one hand, angled at 45deg or 90deg.

I mean, if it works for you, great I guess. But you'd be the rare exception to the rule I would think.

When you rotate like that the barrel starts to bounce up and down from lack of support. Hard to get on target. And recoil makes it a booger to get back on target because your are recoiling left/right (or angled) and your target is up/down (i.e. a person in the real world).

I'm also right-haned, left eye dominant. I shoot weak hand upright hold, right hand on the left side of my chest/collarbone (just comfortable), left eye right down the sight path. For strong hand, I just angle my head to the right, left eye right down the sight path.

The pisser for me is strong hand, standing sideways. I can't rotate my head enough and I can't hit CRAP. So I have to stand face forward, or angled, or sideways weak hand...or I'm dead :)

[Rubb]

Originally Posted by Rubb http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=159698#post159698)
Yep, tilt the gun gangster style.. lines up the sights.. feels more natural.. a lot less tilt with strong hand.

WTH are you people talking about?




Originally Posted by Rubb http://kahrtalk.com/images/tigra/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=159701#post159701)
Point at something with your weak hand....notice the palm direction.

Do you mean point with your pointy finger or with the gun in your weak hand? And what are we supposed to notice about the palm direction?

What have you people been drinking?


I'm going w/ JFootin on wondering what you guys mean. Tilting 'gansta' style is not good support, even w/ your weak hand. If you are using two hands, and want to pull a C.A.R. technique, go for it. But you still need two hands for that.

If are shooting one handed, weak or strong, you need to have the gun upright. That's the ONLY stable hold you can have...your skeletal structure and muscles are the same on both sides of your body. Same principles apply, accept that it's uncomfortable b/c you don't use it as much.

If you are having trouble sighting on the weak side, you should rotate your head so your dominate eye is in line w/ your sights and target. If you are cross dominate, that becomes really easy. I'm cross dominate and it took a heck of alot of retraining of bad habits to shoot w/ my strong/dominate hand b/c I sighted w/ my non-dominate eye and didn't know it...eons ago that is.

In my opinion, being cross dominate makes weak hand shooting easier because your eye is in line w/ that weak hand. Same side dominance makes weak hand shooting more difficult because you have to cross your dominate eye to the opposite hand...harder and more uncomfortable if you ask me.

I apologize for any confusion. I’m not a drinker nor off my rocker....
The gangster grip I referred to was an attempt to make a quick point.
Pointing with your weak hand was indeed pointing a finger for an example of the natural extension of the weak hand.
I do use a full gangster grip but, for ammo reliability testing only.
For actual weak hand shooting it’s more a 45 degree/2:00 angle like others have stated and is actually a Chapman technique IIRC.
The upright position works that’s fine but, it’s not the only stable position IMO.

Again, my apologies...no flame war intended.

[chrish]

Didn't think you were trying to 'start anything', nor was I if it came across that way. My apologies as well if it was misconstrued.

I thought Chapman was the flashlight cigar hold thing, but he probably has alot of stuff out there.

I have never run across anything (other than C.A.R.) that indicated an angled hold w/ one hand was stable...but I'm game to try some stuff. Again, not trying to flame, but if you can find some stuff on it, I'd be interested in reading more and see how they suggest you get around all the problems associated w/ anything other than slightly +/- 90deg upright. It's just that for me, so many variables come into play at those angles, just not getting it.

All I've ever read about holding at an angle was in an attempt to overcome eye dominance issues. But I found that head rotation was more effective and I got to keep a more stable grip/hold/stance that way.

[Rubb]

Thanks chrish..it’s all good :)

I found a little bit, looks like a McMillan technique the more popular Chapman used I guess.



The turning of the head on the axis of the neck to bring left eye in line with extended right hand, or vice versa, is awkward. The first to recognize this and correct it was Bill McMillan, shooting for the US Marine Corps team in the late 1950s. McMillan figured out if he simply canted the pistol somewhere from 15 to 45 degrees inboard, adjusting the sights to compensate where necessary, the iron sights of the pistol in his right hand aligned perfectly with his left eye. In 1960 he went Gold for his country and his team in international competition, and the technique was proven.

One of his contemporaries, on the practical pistol side, was Ray Chapman, who would become the first world champion of the combat handgun. Ray wasn't cross-dominant, but he found a 15 to 45 degree cant of the pistol put the skeleto-muscular support structure of the human arm into a more propitious alignment and strengthened the hand. He recommended it even for same eye/hand dominant shooters, and it is taught today as technique of choice for one-handed self-defense shooting at the Chapman Academy Ray founded and at Thunder Ranch.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_9_53/ai_n27320034/ (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_9_53/ai_n27320034/)


Jim Yeager explains a little here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pJ9doDW-Bo&playnext_from=TL&videos=ficXJzMuHkI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pJ9doDW-Bo&playnext_from=TL&videos=ficXJzMuHkI)

And Lee Laster here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzY4_DPp2Ks&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzY4_DPp2Ks&feature=relmfu)

[Mudcat]

I don't know or really care who came up with the concept but I do know that it works well. Any of the training classes I have taken have all taught the slightly tilted method. It works for me and everyone I have taught it to.

By the way that is James Yeager in the video. Great guy and one of the best trainers I have ever worked with. I've taken a few of his classes, going back again this summer.


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[jlottmc]

When we shot weak handed in the Academy we were taught to use the gansta tilt. It sounds funny, but it works. WE make light of things like that because we see the g's over-exaggerate and cant the pistol 90 degrees. Keeping at about 45 works.

[AIRret]

Thanks folks for all the info., lots of food for thought. At least one thing is consistent within the discussion and that is the importance of lining up the dominant eye with either strong or weak side shooting. I saw one guy at the range (one hand shoot ion) try to use his right eye with his right hand and his left eye with his left hand. To say the least he didn't shoot worth a darn, but he was insistent that his technique was correct. Sometimes you can learn a lot about what not to do!!!!

[JFootin]

OK. I see you are talking mostly about being cross-eye dominant. And a one handed technique I am not familiar with. I am a total lefty and have never taken any classes or studied technique. So I hope you understand my confusion! :p

[jlottmc]

It's the same but opposite for you there J. The majority of people tend to have their dominant eye on the same side as their dominant hand. In your case it is just opposite, hold right hand and cant to 10 o'clock. Try it in dry fire a few times, it won't take long for it to become natural.

[chrish]

Understood now. I just hear 'gansta' and I start thinking like jlottmc was sayin' a full or near full 90 deg rotation. I still couldn't personally even do 45, but that's me. I worked really hard to overcome my cross dominate issues and shooting with an upright hold is now natural for me. I doubt I'll change whats working, but next time I'm at the range I'll try an see what happens.

Thanks for the links Rubb, will check those out in detail and if I see anything happen on my next range trip for better or worse, I'll report back in this thread...

Hard to argue w/ a gold medal...

[jlottmc]

Bottom line, do what works for you.

[Rubb]

OK. I see you are talking mostly about being cross-eye dominant. And a one handed technique I am not familiar with. I am a total lefty and have never taken any classes or studied technique. So I hope you understand my confusion! :p

:D its all good..
You could definitely say cross eye dominant when shooting weak hand.


Understood now. I just hear 'gansta' and I start thinking like jlottmc was sayin' a full or near full 90 deg rotation. I still couldn't personally even do 45, but that's me. I worked really hard to overcome my cross dominate issues and shooting with an upright hold is now natural for me. I doubt I'll change whats working, but next time I'm at the range I'll try an see what happens.

Thanks for the links Rubb, will check those out in detail and if I see anything happen on my next range trip for better or worse, I'll report back in this thread...

Hard to argue w/ a gold medal...

You’re welcome...thanks for posting about CAR, I’m going to look into that.
And FWIW...I agree w/ jlottmc... if it aint broke..