Mas Ayoob on .380 for Self Defense

[Barth]

GlockTalk GATE: Self Defense Forum:
Title:
best 380 acp self defense ammo
Question:
What do you suggest for a ruger lcp daily carry?
Thank you for your time.

Answer:
Mas Ayoob

Personally, I suggest a more powerful handgun.

There's nothing in .380 that I personally trust.
But, if you're locked in to the .380 concept, you might want to try Hornady Critical Defense.
I've heard that LAPD adopted this load for optional backup/off duty guns in this caliber.
Should have some feedback from the field before long.
LAPD is sharp and they wouldn't have adopted it without being satisfied with testing results.

best,
Mas

[Yogi 117]

I carry the LCP daily, hey, it's better than nothing. I personally don't go for CD plastic tip gimmick, although many people like them. I carry the Speer Gold Dot, as I do in all my handguns. Gold Dots = Peace of mind...for me anyway. I always say, carry the JHP of your choice, it's better than not carrying at all. Thx for the info! :)

[jeepster09]

I have always liked the Winchester Silver Tips, for all my guns.

[Barth]

I carry the LCP daily, hey, it's better than nothing. I personally don't go for CD plastic tip gimmick, although many people like them. I carry the Speer Gold Dot, as I do in all my handguns. Gold Dots = Peace of mind...for me anyway. I always say, carry the JHP of your choice, it's better than not carrying at all. Thx for the info! :)

I personally run; Winchester Ranger T-Series, Speer GDHP or Federal HST in all my guns.
And agree that any gun is better than no gun.

Don't even own a .380.
I just know some folks on this forum do.
And wanted to pass along the info.

[Yogi 117]

I personally run; Winchester Ranger T-Series, Speer GDHP or Federal HST in all my guns.
And agree that any gun is better than no gun.

Don't even own a .380.
I just know some folks on this forum do.
And wanted to pass along the info.
+1...all good choices for SD carry. :)

[JFootin]

I have always liked the Winchester Silver Tips, for all my guns.

Yeah, they're good if you encounter a vampire, too! :behindsofa::banplease:

[Deano]

Will a .380 to the mush kill a zombie? Anyone know?

[MW surveyor]

Should if you hit them where you are supposed to. Also I think they make zombiemax in 380 so you're good to go.

[Barth]

Should if you hit them where you are supposed to. Also I think they make zombiemax in 380 so you're good to go.

http://assets.academy.com/mgen/45/10181845.jpg?is=500,500http://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/0/90gr_zmax.jpg

[MW surveyor]

OK, see I knew that they had it!

Completely off topic, look shiny.......

Natchez has zombie targets on their newest monthly catalog.

[jeepster09]

Ah shiney........:75:

[OldLincoln]

Hey, it's dropped every zombie I've shot, so it must be good.

Yeah, shiny!

[Lance39]

Yeah, they're good if you encounter a vampire, too! :behindsofa::banplease:
Ah... Not so much.
Vampires require a wooden stake through the heart.
However, werewolves can be put down by silver bullets.

[Planedude]

My Son and I were over at Cheaper than Dirt yesterday and he was showing me the ZombieMax .380s. I proceeded to show him the Hornady Critical Defence load I already carry. Both have the exact same Bullit/Volocity/powder load (but with and orange tip vs. a green tip) and my Son asked me "so whats the difference"?
About $4 bucks.
ZombieMax $21 a box.
Regular CD $17 a box.
Nice artwork on the ZombieMax... Not $4 nice, but real funny.

Zombie or regular BG = No difference @ end use.:rolleyes:;)

[wyntrout]

I prefer the Buffalo Bore +P Gold Dots... same GDHP but more fps.

Recent comparison with 2" .38 S&W shooting +P 125-gr GDHP and +P Short barrel 135-gr GDHP:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=160284#post160284

Wynn:)

[Barth]

I prefer the Buffalo Bore +P Gold Dots... same GDHP but more fps.

Recent comparison with 2" .38 S&W shooting +P Short barrel 135-gr GDHP:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=160284#post160284

Wynn:)

I've got to say the Speer GDHP 135 gr P+ Short Barrel
kicks like a mule out of my S&W 342 ti 1 7/8" 11.1 oz titanium snubbie.
It does shoot dead on POA a close range.
But power wise it's plenty for me.
I wouldn't want more kick out of the little gun.

My S&W 640-1 only weights 21.9 oz.
And full house 125 gr GDHP 357 Mangnum kick like a mule out of it too.
Especially with bantam grips.
I've found that Winchester PDX1 or Remington Golden Sabers
are downloaded enough for me to be proficient with it.

I'm just saying...

[wyntrout]

I'll still carry the BB +P in my P380, but I just got 250 rounds of Speer Gold Dots for my wife's P380. I'll test those in the next few days.

I can't imagine shooting the loads out of those light pistols you just mentioned. In an SD situation and close range you probably won't notice the recoil, though you might be temporarily deafened!

Wynn:)

[kerby9mm]

I have 2 380's a 9mm a 40 and a 45. I trust all of them to do the jos. They all shoot multiple rounds so what is not to trust. Is the comparison of 380 to 9mm anything like 38 to 357. IMO it has to be about shot placement and who trusts that in a panic situation.

[les strat]

+1...all good choices for SD carry. :)

Hey Yogi! Glad to see you on this forum! :yo: So, you get you a Kahr???

[steveschu]

Yeah, they're good if you encounter a vampire, too! :behindsofa::banplease:

Nope, silver bullets are for werewolves.

[JFootin]

Nope, silver bullets are for werewolves.

You're right. It is a stake through the heart for vampires.

[Longitude Zero]

It is better than nothing but not by much.

[jocko]

You're right. It is a stake through the heart for vampires.

the lone ranger used nothing but silver bullets. He had his own silvermine, didn't u know that. thats why he made silver bullets. thats my story and I'm stickin to it:D

[ScottSouth66]

I've got one .380 experience to share. A few years back,I carried a Colt Mustang,with Silvertips. At a friend's house in the boonies,he had a mangy and hostile large breed dog that would wander into his yard and try to fight his lab. There were no neighbors for miles,so it must have been a dump off,wild dog.

I was over for a cookout and the dog came for a visit. My buddy wasn't a"gun guy" and had nothing to dispatch it with,and animal control wouldn't respond that far out. So I threw a pork chop around back to lure it away from the other guests,and confronted it. I got about 10 feet away and aimed,while he stooped down in a charge stance and snapped at me. I fired once,and saw blood trickle behind his ear,but he stood his ground and started barking at me.

Then I emptied the other 5 shots all into his front section,and his ran around the fence toward the other folks,barking! My friend charged him with a shovel that we were gonna bury him with,and BRAINED the damn animal.That stopped him.

I soon sold the gun and NEVER relied on anything smaller than a 9+P.
I currently carry a K40 with PDXs. Just my personal observation,YMMV....;)

[kerby9mm]

I have heard that animals are harder to kill than people. A deer can be shot with a rifle and if a vital organ (heart) of the head is not hit they can in some cases escape until they bleed out. A drug crazed attacker could maybe be hard to kill also. Could be that in either situation a rifle would be best. A 380 is not a hunting gun but it is adequate to carry as insurance against something that in all likelyhood will never occur.

[muggsy]

I've seen a .22 short used to put down a 300 pound pig. It's all about shot placement.

[Longitude Zero]

I've seen a .22 short used to put down a 300 pound pig. It's all about shot placement.

Kinda but not 100%. I have witnessed trauma surgery to a 44 mag to the head that required almost 1/4 of the brain to removed with almost zero noticable deficit.

Shot placement is important but it is not the only factor involved. I have also seen a 32 to the thigh nick the femoral and death is relatively quick. There are really NO absolutes as to what will work and when, only relatively better choices vs worse.

[Planedude]

Kinda but not 100%. I have witnessed trauma surgery to a 44 mag to the head that required almost 1/4 of the brain to removed with almost zero noticable deficit...


So we are'nt talking about the shooting of an Einstein here are we?:rolleyes:

Still, he did have a bad day.

[Longitude Zero]

Not really. He was a school teacher and after recovery went back to teaching. His wife, now ex went to prison.

[josp]

I agree that the 380 ain't the baddest of the bunch, but beats the hell out of a sharp stick when it's not possible to carry my 45.
I have killed a large whitetail buck, after it was struck by a car and had a broken leg, with one shot from my Colt mustang loaded with corbon. I have also had to shoot another doe, much smaller, with four 45 rounds to achieve the same effect. YMMV.

[Planedude]

Not really. He was a school teacher and after recovery went back to teaching. His wife, now ex went to prison.

Ouch, tough love. Glad he made it.:o

I don't carry a .380 because I think it's the worlds best manstopper.
I carry a .380 because it fits the wardrope we wear when it's 113 and 80% humidity outside during a Texas summer. Nothing is not an option and no other gun fits without printing. Beats the .22LR Beretta I also have.
Pen knife in the other pocket acts as a back-up. I don't want to go to my back-up.

[Cokeman]

Ouch, tough love. Glad he made it.:o

I don't carry a .380 because I think it's the worlds best manstopper.
I carry a .380 because it fits the wardrope we wear when it's 113 and 80% humidity outside during a Texas summer. Nothing is not an option and no other gun fits without printing. Beats the .22LR Beretta I also have.
Pen knife in the other pocket acts as a back-up. I don't want to go to my back-up.

Geez...I do. :madgrin:

[Barth]

Geez...I do. :madgrin:

My last chance back up weapon.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_Xp-hvZVep-u7lQw46CxzH-jzKMub2Xn7c8XFAPOHskrGOXqP-VvdFqnBjQ

[getsome]

I watched 2 back to back shows on Spike TV this weekend called Gangland Oakland about all the different gangs and turf wars in Oakland California and it was very scary to see how little respect those kids had for a human life and how quick they would kill another human being without batting an eye...

What was an eye opener to me about handgun stopping power was while on camera in a holding cell with other members of a certain gang each member showed their gunshot scars and several had been hit multiple times with .40 or .45 rounds and survived...One kid showed the hits to his lower back and he had been hit 4 times with a .40 in one shooting and 2 times in the upper sholder/chest with a .45 and lived...

We all tend to think what ever caliber of zombie max ammo we have will take anyone down with a single body hit but after watching that show it really changed my mind...As was mentioned in an earlier post even a head shot isn't a guaranteed kill shot and only a direct spinal cord sever will take someone down and out of the fight but may not cause much other damage allowing the person to live but in a wheel chair...Pistols make holes, Rifles blow chit up but any pistol is better than a sharp stick or a knife but isn't the be all end all we sometimes like to think they are...

[muggsy]

Kinda but not 100%. I have witnessed trauma surgery to a 44 mag to the head that required almost 1/4 of the brain to removed with almost zero noticable deficit.

Shot placement is important but it is not the only factor involved. I have also seen a 32 to the thigh nick the femoral and death is relatively quick. There are really NO absolutes as to what will work and when, only relatively better choices vs worse.

The guy that had 1/4 of his brain removed must have been a liberal democrat. They function on half a brain most of the time. Just sayin. :)

[Cokeman]

My last chance back up weapon.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_Xp-hvZVep-u7lQw46CxzH-jzKMub2Xn7c8XFAPOHskrGOXqP-VvdFqnBjQ

Nasty. :eek:

[ScottSouth66]

I watched 2 back to back shows on Spike TV this weekend called Gangland Oakland about all the different gangs and turf wars in Oakland California and it was very scary to see how little respect those kids had for a human life and how quick they would kill another human being without batting an eye...

What was an eye opener to me about handgun stopping power was while on camera in a holding cell with other members of a certain gang each member showed their gunshot scars and several had been hit multiple times with .40 or .45 rounds and survived...One kid showed the hits to his lower back and he had been hit 4 times with a .40 in one shooting and 2 times in the upper sholder/chest with a .45 and lived...

We all tend to think what ever caliber of zombie max ammo we have will take anyone down with a single body hit but after watching that show it really changed my mind...As was mentioned in an earlier post even a head shot isn't a guaranteed kill shot and only a direct spinal cord sever will take someone down and out of the fight but may not cause much other damage allowing the person to live but in a wheel chair...Pistols make holes, Rifles blow chit up but any pistol is better than a sharp stick or a knife but isn't the be all end all we sometimes like to think they are...
Yea,I was watching the 50Cent story about the rapper that had an attempt made on his life after he went all big time,he had a car pull up and a guy shot him like 9 times point blank w a 9mm,all in the chest/abdomen,and he made it to the ER and didn't lose consciousness till hours later,and has all kind of hole scars to prove it.
Too bad you can't carry a BAR in your pocket.... :D

[Popeye]

Of course there are better rounds out there than the .380 everybody knows that, but for close up SD when you need to deep CC I have no doubt that the .380 round will stop any agression that might come your way providing you do your part. Might not drop them in there tracks but it's sure going to inflict some pain and cause them to think things over a bit more, and if need be shoot them again. I've used the Hornaday rounds from day one in my p3at but I really don't think it's any better than any other quality round. Sounds more to me like Mas was making a plug for Hornaday.

[Barth]

I watched 2 back to back shows on Spike TV this weekend called Gangland Oakland about all the different gangs and turf wars in Oakland California and it was very scary to see how little respect those kids had for a human life and how quick they would kill another human being without batting an eye...

What was an eye opener to me about handgun stopping power was while on camera in a holding cell with other members of a certain gang each member showed their gunshot scars and several had been hit multiple times with .40 or .45 rounds and survived...One kid showed the hits to his lower back and he had been hit 4 times with a .40 in one shooting and 2 times in the upper sholder/chest with a .45 and lived...

We all tend to think what ever caliber of zombie max ammo we have will take anyone down with a single body hit but after watching that show it really changed my mind...As was mentioned in an earlier post even a head shot isn't a guaranteed kill shot and only a direct spinal cord sever will take someone down and out of the fight but may not cause much other damage allowing the person to live but in a wheel chair...Pistols make holes, Rifles blow chit up but any pistol is better than a sharp stick or a knife but isn't the be all end all we sometimes like to think they are...

The truth is most people that get shot live.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Handguns are under powered by nature.
We carry them cause we can't carry around an AR or shotgun.
No weapon is a death ray.
Anything short of a catastrophic central nervous system (CNS) hit (brain or spine)
is not guaranteed to stop a motivated attacker cold.
Even if wounds inflicted are lethal in nature,
a motivated attacker may well be able to continue to kill and maim for some time.

Shooting once and pausing to check the results can be a lethal mistake.
Keep shooting till the threat is neutralized.

[Rollin Thunder]

HST's are in all of my firearms. GD's and Ranger T's are right up there with them.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned, Cor Bon DPX for the .380's
That's one fine bullet.

[Planedude]

...Shooting once and pausing to check the results can be a lethal mistake.
Keep shooting till the threat is neutralized.


I'll share the quote from I belive Clint Smith.
"You can't just shoot till you think your perpetrator is dead. You must keep in the fight until HE thinks he's dead".

If I did'nt get that exactly right, well I'm sorry. I have known several cops including some Family LEOs. There are plenty of examples of shot up perps killing LEOs and others before dying. I have been party to several discussions on that issue and I think I understand their problem.

That said, the vast majority of situations will resolve upon the pulling of the gun. Most BG want a victim not a gunfight.
Heres to the hope that all your BGs are of that mindset.

[Longitude Zero]

Deep in my memory I recall an instructor telling a group of us that the only reason to carry a handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.

[jlottmc]

I'll share the quote from I belive Clint Smith.
"You can't just shoot till you think your perpetrator is dead. You must keep in the fight until HE thinks he's dead".

If I did'nt get that exactly right, well I'm sorry. I have known several cops including some Family LEOs. There are plenty of examples of shot up perps killing LEOs and others before dying. I have been party to several discussions on that issue and I think I understand their problem.

That said, the vast majority of situations will resolve upon the pulling of the gun. Most BG want a victim not a gunfight.
Heres to the hope that all your BGs are of that mindset.


That was John Connor. That and the post below yours, as well as Barth's are spot on.

[yqtszhj]

I've seen a .22 short used to put down a 300 pound pig. It's all about shot placement.

Yep. I was talking to a EMT at the range one day and he was saying he has seen people killed w/ a .22 and others take a .40 to the shoulder, get stitched up in the ER and go right home. It's all shot placement and number of rounds on target. I guess that means practice, practice, practice.:rolleyes:

[Planedude]

That was John Connor. That and the post below yours, as well as Barth's are spot on.


Ahhh Yes, that was Connor, thanks for the correction. That old boy has a way with words.

Kind of blunt like a baseball bat, but a way with words none the less.

[jlottmc]

Personally, I like his and Clint's style. Then again, I've been through some of the same ahh organizations so I guess it just comes naturally.

[Bill K]

The .380, even from a short barrel pocket pistol, can save the day and cause an outcome little different than what a larger handgun caliber would have caused. What I think is great about the caliber is that a gun can be built around it that can carried when something bigger can't or won't be carried... you you've got a gun on you instead of none.

[Harleyrider]

Yep. I was talking to a EMT at the range one day and he was saying he has seen people killed w/ a .22 and others take a .40 to the shoulder, get stitched up in the ER and go right home. It's all shot placement and number of rounds on target...

I am close friends with a medical examiner. She has autopsied an astounding number of people killed with a .22. Shot placement and number of hits in the desired target area. Depending on clothing, etc., I carry a .380 or a .38 spl. or a 9mm, and I feel a whole lot better with any of them than I would if I didn't carry anything besides my Swiss Army Knive. :)