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View Full Version : CW9: Correct Slide Stop Spring Analysis & How To Help Prevent Inadvertent Catching



LampShadeActual
05-12-2012, 04:34 PM
Slide hold open lever spring. As an item to watch out for with a Kahr CW9, the slide hold open lever spring may need tweaked to prevent the slightest inadvertent contact from locking the slide back while there are still rounds in the magazine.

There is info somewhere around here about how to tighten the slide hold open lever spring screw some magical amount and be careful not to strip it and if you do use super glue and if you do it right it makes the spring operate like two springs. One part against the take down pin and the other pressing the slide stop lever down.

My opinion is that the above advice is faulty. Tightness of that screw has nothing to do with how the spring works. Making it so tight it works as two springs messes up the factory design.

The spring and washer keep the spring from falling out. That is all they are supposed to do.

My opinion based on Mk.1 Mod.0 eyeball examination and watching function is this. The proper function of the spring is in parts:
a) At about 1:00 viewed from the left side of the frame there is a pin on the end of the spring that inserts into the frame. The pin locates the spring.
b) The spring winds counter clockwise so that the 9:00 loop presses against the take down pin for a pivot point and to drop into a notch in the take down pin so the pin stays in.
c) Underneath the screw washer, hollow side up, the washer and screw prevent the spring from falling out and trap it in the slot provided at 6:00. The spring is intended to be free to move in this area. The screw and washer only need to be slightly snug to perform their function and NOT interfere with the free movement of the spring.
d) The spring continues to wind up so that at about 3:00 it makes a turn to the right/rear of the frame. The part after this right turn presses down on the slide stop.

On my CW9, there is/now was so little tension with the projection at 3:00 that the slightest touch knocked it up into slide lock open.

Fix in relation to function of the spring: Remove the screw, washer, and spring. If the 6:00 position of the spring is grasped by a set of small needle nose pliers and the projection is grasped with a second set of needlenose pliers and if the projection is turned ever so slightly so that it orients to 4:00 instead of 3:00, you have "fixed" it. The two sets of pliers would be oriented the same way your eyes look at the spring assembled from the side.

With the end of the projection now at 4:00 there is perhaps twice to three times the tension down on the slide stop. When installing the slide stop, you now need to be careful to wiggle it so the spring projection climbs up over its contact point on the slide stop lever. The spring projection then drops/clicks into a little groove that keeps the slide stop lever in place. The 9:00 loop also drops into the groove in the takedown pin.

This small change appears permanent in the spring and keeps a slight bump from activating the hold open feature. The spring now has more tension on the lever and the spring is free to flex through and under the washer at the 6:00 position as its design intended. With this fix there is NO STRESS on the spring screw or washer and you don't strip it which means you need a new frame.

If the bottom corner of the slide hold open lever, the flat part with the little grooves, is rounded under and polished so the last groove disappears, about a 45 degree bevel, but not all the way through the metal at the bottom underneath side, it also reduces the tendency to self activate. This is because the corner is gone and it is now a bevel instead of a square corner. You can thin the bottom inside as long as you don't cut clear through to the inside.

It makes a neat looking job if you use 600 grit to cut it and 1500 grit to polish it. Wrap several layers around a popsicle stick and you will not FUBAR as you remove metal.

kerby9mm
05-12-2012, 05:55 PM
That way quite a disectional analysis of the slide spring design and functioon. All I know is that on my mk 9 & 40 the slide stop can go in one way only due to the notch in the slide and the grips. That is why I can't picture how so many polymer Kahrs have a problem with that spring. The screw that holds the spring has never come loose. Someone please enlighten me as to why the poly guns have the problem.

DJK11
05-12-2012, 06:21 PM
No problems on my three poly frame Kahrs and I've replaced all three from wear against the pin. I would bet that fine thread screw fastens into metal molded into the frame, not into poly as many assume.

jocko
05-12-2012, 06:28 PM
not so DEJK it is into poly. I wish there was ametalinsert but there is not. and actualy the poly guns don't give issues either. I think I could count on one hand the comments about the slide stop spring coming ouot on a pol;y gun. Mine was over 5 years old in my PM9 and I have had that slide off at leat 300 times and I finally through carelessness on my part damaged that spring. So I replaced it, but it never came loose ever. If u over tighten the poly frame guns, u can strip the threads right out of the frame and then u need some ki nd of thread locker to fix it. Not a good thing. Most people never shoot their kahrs like I do, so one should not even be messing with that little screw in my opinion. If it works loose u will know it for the gun then will start to act up. A slight snug on that screw is all that is needed. If a person READS his manual like he should, it tells him how to properly install that slide stop lever It is normally inpropper installation of the lever that damages that little spring. I doubt if it wearsout due to up and dwon motion. Just my two cents on that, but when in doubt replce that spring and it normally solves alot of picky little things..

DJK11
05-12-2012, 06:44 PM
First, the screw is fine thread and I doubt Kahr would use a fine thread in poly. The side cover screw is course thread.

Second, some where here there is a post with a pict of a poly Kahr that blew-up from a squib round. The pict shows a steel sub-assembly molded into the frame in that area.

Third, the springs on my three pistols were worn at the point that rubbed on the stop pin so I replaced them.

Fourth, oh never mind.

jocko
05-12-2012, 06:48 PM
I am checking on your thread now. If ur right that would sure save alot of headaches. I agree on the fine thread part to. I will get back to you on this..

gb6491
05-12-2012, 06:51 PM
LampShadeActual,
Nice write up, thanks for sharing your opinion on what you believe is the "correct'" method to install the slide stop spring, screw and washer. However, I do think you've misread the previously posted information. Yes, the spring needs to be properly seated (as you describe), but how "snug" the screw needs to be is where your interpretation varies. The posted info suggests tightening the screw until the spring seems to act as two separate springs, but further clarifies that it's just needs to be snug enough to limit how easily the spring moves. Personally, I think the previously posted info and yours here are of the same thought, though differing in how snug (or how to describe "snug") the screw should be. The info I posted before has stood me in good stead through thousands of trouble free rounds downrange.
Here's wishing similar success to you as well.:)
Regards,
Greg

DJK11
05-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Jocko

here is one of the picts. There are more somewhere.

jocko
05-12-2012, 07:25 PM
WHERE, no photos

DJK11
05-12-2012, 07:30 PM
ok,ok I fixed it!

The other picts are from a female owner and shows the frame in more detail.

jocko
05-12-2012, 07:34 PM
ok,ok I fixed it!

The other picts are from a female owner and shows the frame in more detail.

we are not on the same page, that is the one peace rail section that is inbedded in the dust cover. It does not go back into the area where that little screw goes into the polymer frame that hlds that little springhy in place.. .

DJK11
05-12-2012, 07:36 PM
I'll bet it does.

jocko
05-12-2012, 07:41 PM
I don't want to take ur money. I will get u an affirmative answer, not just what I think I know. there is a phto of that one peace metal insert listed in kahrs patents. I wish I could directu to it better but if u search u can find it, I think it will explain itself when u see the picutre of it.

I a not debating u just to be debating u .., I truly wish u were right about that statement

LampShadeActual
05-12-2012, 09:59 PM
My observation would be that if the tightness of the washer and screw limits the movement of the 6:00 area of the spring, it prevents the 12:00 to 9:00 to 6:00 portion of the spring from helping to prevent activation of the slide stop.

With the 3:00 projection aimed to the 4:00 position, the entire spring works against the slide stop lever and keeps it from being activated so easily. And the spring works quicker when it does work because it has more travel as the longer length rotates downward. This is another way to say the longer travel allows a smoother up/down motion rather than binding on a short travel portion.

The magazine spring still lifts the lever to hold the slide open when the magazine is empty. Fired single loaded rounds till I got tired of it with four magazines.

The posted method of "tight" means tightening a mini-screw into a plastic frame to limit the movement of a less than 1/100" diameter micro spring in a slot cut in plastic. An exercise in frustration and not how one would presume to design the function.

What I was trying to describe is "just assemble it" and use it. Once the proper angle of the projection exists, no skill, no overtightening needed, no trapping a spring in a plastic slot, and a lot more movement/strength of that spring using its length.

I have a 50-60 piece screwdriver kit where almost all the tips are minatures. A small tip fits into an adapter that fits into a "normal" looking screwdriver tip holder. I found the little screw is adaquately tightened by simply holding the #6 tip with my fingers and tightening it snug.

TucsonMTB
05-12-2012, 11:29 PM
I'll bet it does.
What would you like to wager? I should take that bet. But, that would be cheating because I have had the slide lock spring screw out on a couple of Kahrs (CW40 and PM40). At least for those two, there is NO metal in that hole, just plastic. Sorry about that . . . ;)

DJK11
05-13-2012, 08:23 AM
To all, Jocko provided a photo suggesting I'm wrong in my assumption of a metal insert. For now I'm wrong but I will contact Kahr.

DJK11

Bawanna
05-13-2012, 10:25 AM
There's now shame in being wrong, it's a border line forte for me.

I still feel a little bad from the last time I was wrong, i think it was 68, maybe 69 but I could be wrong on that.

I don't believe there's a metal insert in there either, often thought it would be a very good idea to have one. Actually including it in the metal insert rails as you guess would be a fine way to go about it too.

I suspect folks would still strip the threads though and I'd probably be the first one to do it.

gb6491
05-13-2012, 12:22 PM
...I don't believe there's a metal insert in there either, often thought it would be a very good idea to have one. Actually including it in the metal insert rails as you guess would be a fine way to go about it too.

I suspect folks would still strip the threads though...
That's why I'd like to see a separate, metal backing plate instead of an insert:cool:
Regards,
Greg

jocko
05-13-2012, 12:33 PM
To all, Jocko provided a photo suggesting I'm wrong in my assumption of a metal insert. For now I'm wrong but I will contact Kahr.

DJK11

what ever floats ur boat, u are misguided now and u willbe the same way after u contact kahr but please don't take any of this fourms word and knowledge of this matter..

jocko
05-13-2012, 12:43 PM
There's now shame in being wrong, it's a border line forte for me.

I still feel a little bad from the last time I was wrong, i think it was 68, maybe 69 but I could be wrong on that.

I don't believe there's a metal insert in there either, often thought it would be a very good idea to have one. Actually including it in the metal insert rails as you guess would be a fine way to go about it too.

I suspect folks would still strip the threads though and I'd probably be the first one to do it.

for peace of mind would like to see a screw going into somehting other than polymer, but think about it. How many frames have we seen ruined??? How many screws have come out and ruined the frame??? Now many would indeed over tighten that screw and then strip the metal insert to???? How many never take the time to read the fokking manual and learn the correct way to insert the slide stop lever and then comes on here and blames the damn gun for having such a touchy area, which IMO it is, IF UR GONNA PAY NO ATTENTION to anything in print. Very well could be this little spring thing is why we only have on lever on this left side, for it one studies this spring set up, it is ingenious how it does two separate things in unison

If one installs the slide stoplever as the manual states which is a no-brainer to do, ur not gonna ruin it. I serioulsy doubt if that srpign will wearout from usage but if it does, u will notice it by slidt stop pin coming out without permission. ( I think I read where soeone here recently stated he has replace 3 on his 3 kahrs due to this wear. HUMM my PM9 was 5+ years old probalbybeen apart 300+ times, over 32 K rounds through it and I screwed up the sprng by not paying attention. If the slide stop spring gets out of whack by something the user does, it will certainly be the same way if the screw eentinto a metal insert to..Just sayinb

really not worth arguing over, it is what it is , u either accept it or buy another gun.

PS, ur not wrong bawanna, u just never right: Just sayin:D and it was in 68 not 69..