what do i give up when i get my ccw?

[cjm2022]

I just purchased my first hand gun and im planning on getting my Virginia Concealed Carry Permit, and want to know what I give up.

I have heard things such as a drug test, which is understandable. but i also heard that it me getting the permit gives the state the right to drug test me any time that they see fit.

Also i could be subject to random house searches and they can come confinscate the weapon at anytime.

I have done some research and can't seem to find a lot. does anyone know how much of this is true?

[Deano]

This would probably be a good place to start: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

[kahrnut1]

in sc if you carry in a resturant that sells alchohol with a ccw you have commited a felony. if you carry without ccw you have commited a misdemeaner. i thought long and hard before i got mine. with that said i have carried since i was 20 and am now 69 and have never been asked if i was carrying

[Goldstar225]

You can have either a temper or a gun. You may not have both at the same time.

[1radman]

Hey CJM,
I'm a life long VA resident and Permit holder. You'll give up nothing and simply gain the ability to carry concealed as long as you abide by VA state law. I don't know where you heard this stuff....none of it is true. Exercising your 2nd amendment rights does not void your 4th amendment right protecting you from unreasonable and unwarranted search and seizure. Any law enforcement entity is still required to obtain a warrant supported by probable cause to search your dwelling. Same goes for drug test. If you're suspected of or arrested for a crime however, all bets are off....your home WILL be searched, your firearms confiscated and what ever else LE deems necessary will be done. This link might be a good place to start. Good Luck!

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

[1radman]

Hey CJM,
I'm a life long VA resident and Permit holder. You'll give up nothing and simply gain the ability to carry concealed as long as you abide by VA state law. I don't know where you heard this stuff....none of it is true. Exercising your 2nd amendment rights does not void your 4th amendment right protecting you from unreasonable and unwarranted search and seizure. Any law enforcement entity is still required to obtain a warrant supported by probable cause to search your dwelling. Same goes for drug test. If you're suspected of or arrested for a crime however, all bets are off....your home WILL be searched, your firearms confiscated and what ever else LE deems necessary will be done. Here's another good link. Good Luck!

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

[cjm2022]

thanks for the help guys i got pretty discouraged when i heard that i may have to sacrifice my freedom for my security.

ive been reading from what you gave me, but have yet to find anything about the actual application process.

does it just require proof competency, a background check, finger printing and the initial drug test?

im sure it's in there somewhere and im going to keep reading but for now i am taking the easy way out and asking first

[OldLincoln]

When I decided to get a permit I studied everything I found about dos and don'ts.

1. You loose the right to have a drink while carrying, even if you hold your liquor well. If you have any police contact while carrying that involves your gun and they smell booze you are in trouble. That includes traffic stops in a required to notify state.

2. You gain a large burden of crow because even though you CAN take care of a bad situation you are much better off to be humble and back off. It's not so bad though. I've been in a few where I would have lost my temper before but just knowing what I COULD do kept me calm. Weird. but true. A big reason why follows.

3. You are responsible for whatever damage you cause in defense of your life. If somebody shoots at you and you return fire and shoot out a store window you pay for the glass. If you hit anybody other than the person who actually shot at you, you have committed a crime. It's a heavy responsibility.

4. You gain the heavy responsibility to learn and take to heart what happens if you should even justifiably defend yourself with gunfire. You WILL loose your gun into evidence and likely never see it again. You likely will have to engage an attorney unless the DA agrees you are good. However, the bad guys family can and often will file a civil suit so you still need to have an attorney at your expense even if you get off clean. But no sweat, it probably won't be much over $25K.

There's so much more but I don't want to discourage you. You have to decide a couple basic things. One is can you walk away from a bad thing if it is possible? For example, you may witness an armed robbery, somebody getting the stuff kicked out of them, purse snatching, thieves walking away from your car with your stuff. All events that you might engage in if unarmed. But the fact you are armed makes you the heavy in all these cases. You carry to protect you and you family, not others.

That's tough love brother, but I'll do anything to protect my wife, son and his family and I do understand all the above.

If you want to read an excellent thread on scenarios while carrying read this thread (http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/carry-defensive-scenarios/) in another forum. I would skip any about zombies invading but there are plenty that relate actual events asking what would you do. This gets you thinking about it and reading other replies gives you insight.

[skiflydive]

There's so much more but I don't want to discourage you. You have to decide a couple basic things. One is can you walk away from a bad thing if it is possible? For example, you may witness an armed robbery, somebody getting the stuff kicked out of them, purse snatching, thieves walking away from your car with your stuff. All events that you might engage in if unarmed. But the fact you are armed makes you the heavy in all these cases. You carry to protect you and you family, not others.


Is all of this true? In my CPL class we were instructed that we are allowed to protect our lives or the lives of others under immediate deadly force threat or sexual assault. We are not allowed to protect ours or others property (purse snatching, thieves taking stuff from your car) and this is where a lot of CPL/CCW holders get themselves in trouble.

[jocko]

in sc if you carry in a resturant that sells alchohol with a ccw you have commited a felony. if you carry without ccw you have commited a misdemeaner. i thought long and hard before i got mine. with that said i have carried since i was 20 and am now 69 and have never been asked if i was carrying

I started carrying at 18 and now age 68, and never been asked if I carry.

Now hereinIndiana u can go in a bar and drink and have a gun on u andno felony, unless u actually commit a felony.

I don' worryt aobut that anymore, I quit hard drinkin years ago, now I carry anywhgere that is legal by state law. again common sense goes a long way.

[Longitude Zero]

Old Lincoln I agree 100% with all you posted. A F/A is to protect people NOT property.

[OldLincoln]

Is all of this true? In my CPL class we were instructed that we are allowed to protect our lives or the lives of others under immediate deadly force threat or sexual assault. We are not allowed to protect ours or others property (purse snatching, thieves taking stuff from your car) and this is where a lot of CPL/CCW holders get themselves in trouble.

Absolutely true. Unless you are present when the aggressor approaches somebody you know well enough to go to jail for, you better leave well enough alone.

A classic case in carry classes is a man apparently roughing up a woman who is screaming for help. Instinctively we think the man is the bad guy, but in this case it was an undercover cop and he was trying to arrest a wanted felon who had a weapon that wasn't apparent to the observer. Getting involved is obstruction of justice, assaulting an officer, and whatever else they charge.

Witnessing a robbery is just as tricky. If you interject yourself and the robber then hurts the clerk, it could well be argued in civil court that you didn't know if the robber would further harm the clerk or not when you got involved and are responsible for the injuries.

The only time you can justify your actions is if the bad guy points a gun in your direction. Then you report that and say he had motive, opportunity, and intent based on your observation.

Carrying does not make you a police officer and you will not become a fellow protector of the people. The law at least in CA is that you cannot come to the aid of a police office unless he asks for it. That may have some flexibility however but at a risk.

Recently a uniformed officer was taken to the ground by an experienced perp and a civi jump in and held the guys legs down giving the cop position and allowed him to cuff the guy. That turned out well for the cop and the civi, but had the civi pulled a gun and shot the guy he would be in prison where the guy's buddies live. Assisting and shooting are two different things.

[OldLincoln]

Oh don't pay any attention to Jocko. What can a guy with less than 400 posts know anyway???? :behindsofa:

Mmmmm.... boiled horse head, good stuff! :hungry:

PS: Just kidding Don Jocko, just kidding!

[jlottmc]

That reminds me of a situation I was in the other night. We all know what I'm doing in my spare time, and while I don't have a commission yet, I still won't let some things (felonies) go. I also have been doing some building maintenance at a church I know well, and have been doing it really late because of my schedule. I was coming home from that and came across three guys and a girl in a bike trail/creek/park kind of thing that is on my home. That looked exactly like what you think it did, and not good for the girl. Long story short, I stopped lit the scene with my headlights, and pulled my pistol, while separating everyone. I also had dispatch on the line. When an officer I know got there, I was still being used as cover (not the bullet resistant kind). After a few minutes of his investigation, it turns out the whole thing was really consensual. Thankfully, I knew the responding officer, but still, it could have come out much worse.

[AIRret]

Take your time deciding if you will carry, its important to be comfortable with the risks.
I carry everyday and IMP that's the way to go. BUT, if you get your CCW you have the choice to only carry if your anticipating being in a vulnerable situation. For instance there is a riot going on and you have to drive your Father to the hospital because he is having a heart attack. I know that may be far fetched, but a CCW would allow you to be a little safer. Bottom line; do the research and make your choice.

Good Luck

[OldLincoln]

In the news today: 20 years for firing a warning shot (http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/).

(CNN) -- Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.
===============

Yes it is apparently for real, and likely very unjust. People need to realize ours is NOT a system of justice, but a system of laws. How many times do you read about an obviously guilty person let off on a technically or plea bargain. You can be entirely just in defending yourself but if you violate a law in doing so you can be charged for it.

In the case above, if she had done almost anything without a gun involved she may not even have been charged. But fire a gun and a different set of rules apply. It's probably the gun phobia at work here but it is what it is.

I carry everywhere I can but will not draw unless I am threatened, and will not shoot unless in eminent danger. It's the knowledge and understanding you must to be in the position to defend your life without the need to defend yourself in court.

[AIRret]

WOW!!!!!!!! You should have heard my husband when I read him your post!
It is not a justice system, it's a legal system.

Another concern for people with CCW's is the medical use of marijuana. We have a friend who's Wife is fighting cancer for the third time and she won't take medical marijuana during her chemo because her husband would have to give up his CPL.

[wm36]

The only time you can justify your actions is if the bad guy points a gun in your direction. Then you report that and say he had motive, opportunity, and intent based on your observation.

Exactly. Good thoughts OL. I have had my CHL for months but have yet to carry. I keep coming up with these scenarios and can't convince myself that I would handle it correctly. Sticking to defending only yourself or your family is the safest way to go, but what would I really do in some of these situations where you have to decide in an instant? That's what I really have to make sure of before I would carry. Don't really want to have to spend $$$ on lawyers or end up locked up for good intentions but bad judgement.

[jocko]

lots of responsibility when one sticks a gun in his pocket. Just sayin. Actually WM36,IMO it is good that you think about it alot.

I bet George Zimmerman wishs he could take that one night back.

[TheTman]

You have to remember you're not a cop, not a security guard, not a vigilante, and you sure as hell aren't a super hero all of a sudden. Learn to take lip and ignore it. Avoid the "monkey dance" at all costs (someone picking a fight with you to show off in front of his friends or for whatever reason). Go to the USCCA website and do some reading, they have some good info there. Read anything you can regarding use of deadly force by Masaad Ayoob, and other authors that teach self defense. If you have a bad temper, lose it or don't get the CC permit. Check with your homeowners insurance to see if you are covered in case you have to use your gun, I went ahead and got the USCCA Shield which will pay for a lawyer in an SD situation, both criminal and civil courts. Some CC class teachers say you should have a $100K available very quickly in case you have to use your weapon and need a lawyer. There are many things to think about, and it's a great responsibility. As someone pointed out earlier, either in this thread or another, it's not a system of justice, but a system of laws and bottom feeding lawyers. If you see a situation and not sure what exactly is going on, call 911 and observe, don't just jump in the middle of it to defend some woman or something, how many times have husbands and wives fought only to turn on the cop that shows up to break it up.
Now if I saw a group of people beating up an old person, I might have to get involved, but I'd certainly have 911 on the phone and be explaining what is going on and let the people know the cops were on the way without showing my weapon, I might possibly allude to the fact I was armed by sweeping my jacket back or something, but wouldn't draw unless they turned on me and I feared for my life. Even that could possibly get me in trouble, but I don't think I could just stand by and let something like that happen. Use your head, and trust your gut and always call the cops if you can. Once you pull your gun out, things may and probably will begin to spiral out of control, and you just don't know what will happen. Remember that no good deed goes unpunished.
I personally like to stay in well lit areas at night, and blend into crowds when I can, and make myself as inconspicuous as possible. I never stare at anyone unless they obviously are putting on a good natured show for people, I don't wear flashy jewelry or watches or anything someone might be tempted to grab. I am extra nice to people, hold doors open for people and do things like that, just so no one has any reason to mess with me. If someone bumps into me in a store or somewhere crowded, I say excuse me and go on without looking back (and check my wallet and see if it's still there). Acting the tough guy is liable to escalate into something you don't want.
I also don't go to places that are known trouble spots. Sometimes I'm on my bike and some guys wearing colors will come into the place I'm at. Usually if you ignore them they will ignore you. A polite nod in passing is all that needs to be said usually.
Who was it? Robert Heinlein I think that said an "armed society is a polite society".

[HDoc]

You can have either a temper or a gun. You may not have both at the same time.
+1; well said

[SGT405]

I have been a police officer(Sgt) in Va. For 35 years. In order to use deadly force justifiably 3 criteria must be met.
1-you must be in fear of death or grave bodily harm(or someone around you).
2-the attack must be immediate and unavoidable.
3-the attacker must have the means to carry out the threat.

As for carrying concealed. You get an application from the clerk of the court of you jurisdiction. You must have completed a handgun safety course or have prior training like the military or hunting safety course. Once the app is returned the state has 45 days to approve it or the actual application becomes your permit until the approval comes, so make a photocopy.
You can carry in any establishment that serves alcohol as long as you don't drink. You can carry in a house of worship "with good cause". You cannot carry on federal property unless it's on the approved list. No airport property, no courts, no post office. Remember, some airports like Dulles have private access roads. They are considered federal property.
If you carry concealed properly and discretely no one will no you are carrying. The gun is your weapon of last resort. It is the final option.
Good luck.

[mr surveyor]

I have been a police officer(Sgt) in Va. For 35 years. In order to use deadly force justifiably 3 criteria must be met.
1-you must be in fear of death or grave bodily harm(or someone around you).
2-the attack must be immediate and unavoidable.
3-the attacker must have the means to carry out the threat.

As for carrying concealed. You get an application from the clerk of the court of you jurisdiction. You must have completed a handgun safety course or have prior training like the military or hunting safety course. Once the app is returned the state has 45 days to approve it or the actual application becomes your permit until the approval comes, so make a photocopy.
You can carry in any establishment that serves alcohol as long as you don't drink. You can carry in a house of worship "with good cause". You cannot carry on federal property unless it's on the approved list. No airport property, no courts, no post office. Remember, some airports like Dulles have private access roads. They are considered federal property.
If you carry concealed properly and discretely no one will no you are carrying. The gun is your weapon of last resort. It is the final option.
Good luck.


perfect advice!

[CJB]

I always thought the greatest thing given up when carrying a weapon was fear....

[SGT405]

I always thought the greatest thing given up when carrying a weapon was fear....

That can be a two edged sword. Fear is healthy. It keeps us away from situations that are dangerous. Fear is a survival instinct, use it to your advantage. Controlling it is the key.