New bill gives IRS powers to confiscate your guns.

[TheTman]

More liberal BS in the works. They are calling this MAP-21, (it's part of bill S.1813) for reasons explained in the post. If the IRS claims you owe more than a certain amount taxes, this bill gives them the power to seize your passport, and confiscate your guns and make it so you can't buy any more.
You can read about it here:
http://govguns.atomazon.com/board1/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=181&p=213#p213

Again, I didn't want to pollute this board with my political ramblings so I posted it on another board, But the parts of the bill S.1813, known as MAP-21, seem pretty offensive to me.

[tv_racin_fan]

Actually they can not just CLAIM you owe the taxes they must file the necessary paperwork.

SEC.40304...

"...'seriously delinquent tax debt’ means an outstanding debt under this title for which a notice of lien has been filed in public records pursuant to section 6323 or a notice of levy has been filed pursuant to section 6331,..."

This is just a change to the Passport Act of 1926. Not sure I agree to the whole thing but in general someone who owes in excess of $50k in back taxes doesn't need to be issued a passport by which he can flee and not pay such taxes in my opinion.

I did not find anything relating to firearms..

[chrish]

Nothing in this bill related to firearms other than the bill prevents transportation of hazardous materials and then excludes firearms from being hazardous materials. It further specifies that the 'permits' mentioned are related to those issued by the transportation department and are related to this bill specifically. Nothing regarding CCW permits, gun permits, etc.

Not that anything from the government is good these days, but this is just a transportation bill.

There are WAY easier ways for gov lawyers to get your guns than somehow twisting this bill around to apply. Not gonna happen w/ this one.

[TheTman]

From the letter I received:
If "MAP-21" is not stopped, it could give the IRS the power to ACCUSE Americans of tax delinquency WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, and "authorize" this agency to revoke their passports and travel rights, place them in a centralized database, AND ARBITRARILY DICTATE THE ABRIDGEMENT OF THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO OWN A FIREARM."
I don't know where you got your info, Have you read the bill? Why would a gun rights association say this was in it, if it wasn't there? Just to cause panic? I don't think so.
Often things get slipped into otherwise harmless bills. Just Sayin.

[chrish]

Yep, I read the bill, or rather cursory skim with multiple searches. Library of Congress has them online. Nothing there. Don't know why a gun rights group would publish this as a gun issue. What gun rights group did you receive your information from?

As far as the passport issues w/o due process. The bill specifically states thats you would have to have already had a lein placed on your property as a result of 50k+ in deliquent taxes. I think that qualifies as due process. I don't like taxes any more than the next guy, but I pay mine...and I don't want anybody mooching off the system to have the ability to skip out on their debt.

All that being said, this is a Barbara Boxer bill, and nothing good comes from her. I just can't tie this to gun control or a power grab...it's just more red tape and government mumbo jumbo.

[chrish]

Scratch that question about which group this came from, went back to your original post.

So, I have to say there is a bunch of mis-information in that email you received. They say your passport can be seized or revoked just for being 'alleged' to owe the IRS. That's not what the bill states, it says you have to have a lein (as I mentioned above). They also freely admit there is nothing in the bill that specifically points to what the government has planned. Sorry, that's just tin foil hat stuff if you ask me.

Like I pointed out in my first post, there are PLENTY of other ways to go about getting your guns than to try and twist something into this bill. Plenty of which would stand up in the liberal courts. They don't need this bill to do that.

What you should be MORE angry about here is that they slipped IRS regs into a Transporation bill. The parts about the passports, leins, 50K+ have NOTHING, not ONE SINGLE THING to do w/ the overarching transportation bill.

[TheTman]

That seems to be normal operating procedure anymore, to attach all sorts of garbage that has nothing to do with the original bill. I think that is how some pro-gun measures make it through the Senate.

From the post:
"If "MAP-21" is not stopped, it could give the IRS the power to ACCUSE Americans of tax delinquency WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, and "authorize" this agency to revoke their passports and travel rights, place them in a centralized database, AND ARBITRARILY DICTATE THE ABRIDGEMENT OF THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO OWN A FIREARM".

I don't know if this is true or not, do they have to in fact have filed a lien, or do they just accuse you of owing the money and then take these actions.
I don't know, but I thought I'd share this with folks so they could do research and make up their own minds.
Either way, I hate to see the IRS given anymore power. Politicians abuse the IRS power, and have been known to sic the IRS on opponents, meanwhile Obama appoints people who haven't paid taxes in years to powerful positions.
I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes, this year hurt a little bit, as I had to pay in, but just think of all the taxes you pay, the government taxes just about everything, even after you die.
Here's some of the taxes we pay now, none existed 100 years ago:
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax,
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax,
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax,
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax,
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax,
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax,
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax,
Sales Tax
School Tax,
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service FeeTax
Telephone Federal,
State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage
Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

[tv_racin_fan]

From the letter I received:
If "MAP-21" is not stopped, it could give the IRS the power to ACCUSE Americans of tax delinquency WITHOUT DUE PROCESS, and "authorize" this agency to revoke their passports and travel rights, place them in a centralized database, AND ARBITRARILY DICTATE THE ABRIDGEMENT OF THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO OWN A FIREARM."
I don't know where you got your info, Have you read the bill? Why would a gun rights association say this was in it, if it wasn't there? Just to cause panic? I don't think so.
Often things get slipped into otherwise harmless bills. Just Sayin.

I got my info directly from the bill. Notice that I quoted a portion of the section and then posted the sec number.

[TheTman]

Thanks TVR.

[tv_racin_fan]

Tman think on this for a bit.

Why would a group supposedly supporting gun rights be in support of a candidate who signed a permanent assault weapons ban into law?

The excuse seems to be that well it is a liberal state and well the bill/law does some good things in regards to gun rights, possibly more good things than bad. The man could have vetoed the bill but then the "legislature" would have surely overturned his veto.