slide stop to reload?

[espresso]

I've read/heard advise against using the slide stop/release to re chamber a round on an empty gun because it causes wear on the notch in the slide. Because Kahr recommends using the slide stop/release to chamber an empty gun are the karhs beefier in that area? Have any experienced premature wear on their slides from many reloads using the slide release instead of slingshoting?

Just curious as I've gotten so used to using the slide release on my CW9 it's how I re chamber each time. It's a large release, easy to press, located in the right spot and a heck of a lot faster for me than slingshot method.

[Barth]

I've read/heard advise against using the slide stop/release to re chamber a round on an empty gun because it causes wear on the notch in the slide. Because Kahr recommends using the slide stop/release to chamber an empty gun are the karhs beefier in that area? Have any experienced premature wear on their slides from many reloads using the slide release instead of slingshoting?

Just curious as I've gotten so used to using the slide release on my CW9 it's how I re chamber each time. It's a large release, easy to press, located in the right spot and a heck of a lot faster for me than slingshot method.

I've never heard of that.
Always have used the slide release for over 30 years, on a variety of autos, without an issue.

[dkmatthews]

I don't mean this to sound like I'm being a smartass or anything, but that sounds like a myth to me. Really! Why would the gun makers bother with the trouble and expense of building the guns with slide release levers if we weren't supposed to use them?

[espresso]

I thought it didn't sound right. I've heard people advising against it at the range, read about it somewhere but why would they have a release if you weren't supposed to use it?

Thanks I'm pretty new to guns and have lots to learn. I don't plan on changing how I reload.

[Bawanna]

Technically (something I'm not normally associated with) it's a slide stop, not a slide release. I've heard that before as well and have seen guns with wear in that area.

Of course I've seen lots more with no wear in that area so maybe that's an old rule of thumb. Many competition shooter use it as a release for speed.

Kahr recommends using it so that's good enough for me although I slingshot regularly as well.

If your used to it and it works for you, I'd continue to do so.

[jocko]

I doubt if ur gonna wear that notch any, to my knowledge I have not heard of that happening. I would advise though learning both ways. Slingshot method is a must if u have a misfire, jam or what ever. TAP, RACK AND BANG drills are good to learn..

[dkmatthews]

Thanks for the correction, Bawanna!

[getsome]

The slide release is made to hold open the slide when the gun is empty and can be used to chamber a round, thats it's job...What you shouldn't do is release the slide on an empty chamber which is hard on the gun because there is nothing to cushion the slide going into battery, kind of like someone slinging an open revolver cylinder back into the frame....Not a good idea...

[Bawanna]

Thanks for the correction, Bawanna!

Not a correction in the true sense of the word, just what I've always been told. Course my momma says she loves me but she could be jiving too, ya know.

I think better steel now days helped put an end to rounded off corners and stuff too.

[espresso]

Slingshot method is a must if u have a misfire, jam or what ever. TAP, RACK AND BANG drills are good to learn..

I hear on that one jocko. I just picked up some snap caps just to work on that drill.

It goes bang every time so I haven't had much chance to tap,rack, bang.


What you shouldn't do is release the slide on an empty chamber which is hard on the gun because there is nothing to cushion the slide going into battery, kind of like someone slinging an open revolver cylinder back into the frame....Not a good idea...

I can understand why that is a bad practice....thanks

[jocko]

the snap cap things are super for that drill, and also super for showing a shooter what he is doing wrong to. Throw 6 snap caps in with 30 rounds of ammo and let some one load your magazine for you, so u don't know if u have one, 3 or none in with live rounds. trust me when u hit that dud round ur gonna surprise yourself kand then at the same time do the "drill"

I have over 32 K rounds through my jPM9 and I use the slide release lever alot. I cannot tellyou over the 5 yearsjust how much I do use it but I certainly have used it probably more than most shooters ever wlll and looking at the notch in my slide, it shows zero, nadda wear. Sure it might happen , if u live long enough. I have a feeling to that if that did happen just a small touch up with a file on the notch and ur back in business. Qite worrying about something that is not gonna happen..

[DeaconKC]

Okay, realize that different guns have differing designs. 1911s are made to use the slide stop to release the slide, but Glocks are not. Go by whichever builder tells you, but the one thing is that ANY will work using the slingshot or overhand method.

[cobrasjp]

Okay, realize that different guns have differing designs. 1911s are made to use the slide stop to release the slide, but Glocks are not. Go by whichever builder tells you, but the one thing is that ANY will work using the slingshot or overhand method.

Just to be clear, and I think this is what you meant, 1911s are not meant to use the slide stop to release the slide on an empty chamber. Only to chamber a round.

And if you are chambering a round with the slide stop, many pistolsmiths recommend holding the trigger to the rear when you release the slide stop. This protects the hammer/sear surfaces from battering and simulates what happens when the gun is actually fired.

[jocko]

surely not necessary on a striker fired gun

IMO releasing on an empty chamber can't be a good thing but also I see no harm coming if it happens a few times either. why push the envelope either.. If glock says no, then no it should be. To be honest with you, I did not know glock said not to use the slide stop to load that first round.. I guess my next question would be then "why does glock make an extended slide stop lever" if it was not meant to be used in a tactical situation for a fast reload.

What if one of ur hands/arms are inoperabler for some SHTF reason, Just sayin...

[7shot]

I've taken numerous defensive pistol classes and in everyone the persons teaching the class strongly suggest against using the slide stop to release a new round to battery. And the reason being is you get more forward thrusts when the slide is slingshoted, thus decreasing any chance of a jam.

Of course if you're in a gunfight and lose control of a hand then all this is out the window! My suggestion, be familiar with both options. Especially using one hand.

[jocko]

not sure I agree with that statement. We have to assume that every hand rack is perfect, no riding the slide or hesitation what so ever. With the slide release lever, it is releasing that slide every time with the same needed velocity to load that round.

I would bet if one trys to hand rack the kahr P380 over using the slide release lever, the lever will win out every time. Now also IMO a teacher of any class is far more qualified to make that statement than the students he is now teaching to. Just sayin.

sorry, I just don't agree with it, but what the hgell ,not the first time I have been wrong either.

[JustinN]

My academy taught to slingshot the slide on our glocks. #1 was because that is a slide stop lever, used to lock the slide open, but #2 and most importantly, they want you to practice what you will use. In a real shooting situation, or any highly stressful fight/flight situation your fine motor control is one of the first to go, so therefor using your thumb to reload isn't going to happen for you, whereas you can grab the whole slide and let her rip. It's the same reason many PD's are moving away from guns with manual safeties and allowing DAO guns. If you start taking rounds the likelyhood of your thumb working to move a tiny lever is greatly reduced, so they don't want to worry about it...just draw and fire.

[Barth]

not sure I agree with that statement. We have to assume that every hand rack is perfect, no riding the slide or hesitation what so ever. With the slide release lever, it is releasing that slide every time with the same needed velocity to load that round.

I would bet if one trys to hand rack the kahr P380 over using the slide release lever, the lever will win out every time. Now also IMO a teacher of any class is far more qualified to make that statement than the students he is now teaching to. Just sayin.

sorry, I just don't agree with it, but what the hgell ,not the first time I have been wrong either.

+1
This getting old agreeing with Jocko, LOL!
But I feel the same way about it.

[robdnor]

My academy taught to slingshot the slide on our glocks. #1 was because that is a slide stop lever, used to lock the slide open, but #2 and most importantly, they want you to practice what you will use. In a real shooting situation, or any highly stressful fight/flight situation your fine motor control is one of the first to go, so therefor using your thumb to reload isn't going to happen for you, whereas you can grab the whole slide and let her rip. It's the same reason many PD's are moving away from guns with manual safeties and allowing DAO guns. If you start taking rounds the likelyhood of your thumb working to move a tiny lever is greatly reduced, so they don't want to worry about it...just draw and fire.



what justin said...

while i'm not leo ,
I try to keep trained whenever i can get into courses and have had this point driven home multiple times, with different instructors and i agree fully... run through some stress drills while moving and addressing unexpected targets, your not gonna think, oh use my thumb.. you'll run dry and go through basically a tap rack bang, just more drop mag, slam mag home, rack, bang... just my 2 cents

[Popeye]

I've heard of this before.
Mostly on more inexpensive pistols but never associated with Kahr Pistols.
For the record I do not use slide stops as a slide release. I have a few different brands and styles of pistols none of which have the same slide release configuration.

[Barth]

what justin said...

while i'm not leo ,
I try to keep trained whenever i can get into courses and have had this point driven home multiple times, with different instructors and i agree fully... run through some stress drills while moving and addressing unexpected targets, your not gonna think, oh use my thumb.. you'll run dry and go through basically a tap rack bang, just more drop mag, slam mag home, rack, bang... just my 2 cents


Using my thumb to release the slide doesn't require thought, it's like breathing.
And it's faster than slingshot.
For clearing sure.
But standard reload, even under fire, I'm using the slide release.

I have been in live fire, stress fire, professional instruction and drills.
The slide release works just fine.
Plus I don't like tying up both hands on a procedure that really only takes one.
I like being able to better defend myself with a free hand while lowering the slide.

[jocko]

I can hand rack my Pu$$y G19 damn near with my teeth even, it is just that easy. NOT SO WITH A KAHR.. Just sayih

[Barth]

I can hand rack my Pu$$y G19 damn near with my teeth even, it is just that easy. NOT SO WITH A KAHR.. Just sayih

Do you know how many times,
in 30 years of shooting autos,
I've missed the slide release, or pushed it and it didn't drop the slide?

That number would be ZERO.

As with many things in life there is often more than one right way to do things.
It's not always right or wrong.
Sometimes it's right or left.

I'm not discounting LE training.
But some of these guys just practice to qualify.
And are not highly skilled proficient shooters.
I think the training is geared for a broad audience.
Stress fire techniques for the masses.

It's not the only way to go - IMHO.

[Popeye]

All good opinions for sure, but I think we might be getting off topic a bit.
I think the OP wanted to know about the slide stop knotch wearing out do to using the slide stop as a slide release.

[Barth]

All good opinions for sure, but I think we might be getting off topic a bit.
I think the OP wanted to know about the slide stop knotch wearing out do to using the slide stop as a slide release.

You think, LOL!
I thought ridiculous thread drift was part of the process?

And why haven't we connected girls in some way yet?

[Tinman507]

Release by Slide Stop

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5003/5375550905_f43c404fb0.jpg

[7shot]

not sure I agree with that statement. We have to assume that every hand rack is perfect, no riding the slide or hesitation what so ever. With the slide release lever, it is releasing that slide every time with the same needed velocity to load that round.

I would bet if one trys to hand rack the kahr P380 over using the slide release lever, the lever will win out every time. Now also IMO a teacher of any class is far more qualified to make that statement than the students he is now teaching to. Just sayin.

sorry, I just don't agree with it, but what the hgell ,not the first time I have been wrong either.

I guess I should of mentioned that 9mm or larger was only allowed in our classes. The 380 didn't qualify as a defensive round! So ya, if you wanta use the 380 as an example, you win! But if we're using larger frame weapons the slingshot gives me the greatest advantage getting back into the fight.

But it really all comes down to what you like and how much you train as to how well you're going to perform when it's all on the line.

[skiflydive]

A couple of things...

This thread has convinced me not to just release the slide on an empty chamber. I'll ride it home from now on.

Can someone properly define slingshot for me? Is that a full length racking of the slide to chamber a round? i.e. no round in the chamber, slide fully home, rack the slide full stroke to chamber a round. Or is it slide locked back, empty chamber, pull the slide the rest of the way back and release to chamber the round? Or is it both.

When I first got my CM9 I tried chambering by racking from slide fully closed a few times. It occurs to me that every FTF I ever had resulted from doing this and the gun has been flawless every time I released the slide using the slide stop.

[Bawanna]

A couple of things...

This thread has convinced me not to just release the slide on an empty chamber. I'll ride it home from now on.

Can someone properly define slingshot for me? Is that a full length racking of the slide to chamber a round? i.e. no round in the chamber, slide fully home, rack the slide full stroke to chamber a round. Or is it slide locked back, empty chamber, pull the slide the rest of the way back and release to chamber the round? Or is it both.

When I first got my CM9 I tried chambering by racking from slide fully closed a few times. It occurs to me that every FTF I ever had resulted from doing this and the gun has been flawless every time I released the slide using the slide stop.

Either is correct on a slingshot. Usually your gun is empty and the slide is locked back, so you pull it the rest of the way back and release. Where people go wrong is they don't release at the extreme rear point and ride the slide just a bit. Sometimes that's just enough to not work properly. It's also why Kahr recommends using the slide stop lever. It's consistent.

As far as officers go they like things to be consistent weather it's a reload or a malfunction clearance. As Justin so eloquently mentioned its gross motor skill, with adrenaline and pressure all mixed in. Less to think about. I think competitive shooters looking for speed would go with the stop lever but defense trainers and long time students of the gun would slingshot.
Wish I had Clint Smith's home phone # I bet he's a slingshotter. Almost sure of it.

Riding the slide down on an empty chamber is what I always do. Some guns it don't really matter, others it's just not a good thing to do, 1911 comes to mind.

[Infidel proud]

A friend of mine has some of Clint's training videos and I will say that he is indeed a slingshotter. Not only with his hand but he also shows slingshotting a pistol using the rear sight on your belt, holster, or whatever else is around that will put enough pressure on the sight to allow a "proper" slingshot

[Infidel proud]

A friend of mine has a few of Clint's training videos and he is indeed a slingshotter. Not only with his hand but also teaches the slingshot by catching the rear sight on your holster, belt, he even uses the side of a door frame...this technique to be used if and when your off hand is injured or otherwise engaged

[Bawanna]

I thought so. We had some of that one handed racking training here right after we transitioned to Glock 21's. Course they couldn't just use and bugger up one gun, wouldn't be manly I guess.

But it's good stuff to try and practice, real life stuff. I guess in a real life bad situation your not really gonna care that your making your gun ugly.

One of the nice things about Glocks, there doesn't seem to be any love or urge to baby them. Use it like a carpenters hammer and put it away wet.

[Infidel proud]

no kidding, it won't matter how ugly your gun is if you aren't there to notice the next day...just sayin

[Barth]

Some of us have trained using the Tueller Drill.
If you're in the process of reloading,
the attacker may well have had time to be on you.
Being training in weapons disarming and retention techniques,
there's no way I'm tying up two hands with a one handed operation
in close quarters combat. Speed, economy of motion and adaptability to
the dynamics of combat are foundation concepts for me.

It's not just reloading under stress and fractions of a second count.
Particularly in a multiple attacker scenario.

[JFootin]

A friend of mine has a few of Clint's training videos and he is indeed a slingshotter. Not only with his hand but also teaches the slingshot by catching the rear sight on your holster, belt, he even uses the side of a door frame...this technique to be used if and when your off hand is injured or otherwise engaged

I seriously doubt this would even work at all, or less than half the time, with one of these micro Kahrs because of the extra stiff recoil spring.

[Infidel proud]

It does indeed work, even with the kahr pistols. Now if your kahr pistol doesn't slingshot, wouldn't even consider it. It is intended as a technique for law enforcement/miliatary personell, who typically carry a sidearm like a glock or beretta. I have tried the technique in training but will use the slide lock on my kahr every time.

[espresso]

Some great points brought up here.

Now that my CW9 it broken in and slick like butter, I need to work on tap, rack, bang drills for sure and get use to slingshoting in case I have a failure.
I'm guessing it's better to be proficient with both so what ever you fall back on it you can get that gun reloaded.
I'm with you Barth......no telling what my off hand will be doing in a gun fight. If I can slam that release down with my thumb real quick so be it.

[Infidel proud]

+1 on that espresso, just to clarify, the Clint Smith drill I was speaking of is for correcting failures with one hand. Lets say you (God forbid) have to use your weapon. While doing so you take a round to your left hand. You fight through and keep returning fire until...malfunction...So, now what do you do when your off hand is inoperable?

the drill is to tap the mag on your thigh then rack the slide via rear sight on a belt or whatever will accept the resistance...then get back on target...

Tight spring you say? Pretty sure adrenaline will take care of that for ya...

[Bawanna]

I suggest make your best plan but learn both methods and get as efficient as you possibly can.

When you look the elephant in the eye you won't be able to scratch your nose with a wire brush let alone thread a needle or hit small levers. There of course will be exceptions. Some will man up and get r dun. Others bowels will turn to water and drop the gun on the draw and run. It's just the way it is. We do the best we can under the circumstances. You won't know till it happens. No honor, no shame, no judgement till the lawyers or the lord cometh unto the picture.

[Infidel proud]

think you hit the nail on the head there. My point was that it never hurts to have a useful tool in the toolbox...just in case...We all carry firearms because we are self reliant and should have the tactics and training to deal with as much as we possibly can...

[espresso]

I don't have any illusions about thinking clearly, moving gracefully, and preforming like a hero if it all goes down. I think you prepare as best you can- but I don't think anyone really knows how they will react unless they've been there.
And I certainly have not.

[Infidel proud]

Very true, I have my third down range deployment coming up soon so I deff know how I react in life or death situations. Not every one knows that much about themselves (a good thing in my opinion)...at least for me it wasn't so much a question of how am i going to react, but more about seeing death and trying to deal with the fact that I caused it even while knowing that if you didn't you would be the one laying there...Guess thats another thing to consider...do you sincerely have the fortitude to take the life of another...A tought question that I wish no man would ever have to answer...

Any way, sorry got a lil heavy there...my point, constantly train and grow and learn everything you can because you never know what you will need to be able to do...

[Barth]

think you hit the nail on the head there. My point was that it never hurts to have a useful tool in the toolbox...just in case...We all carry firearms because we are self reliant and should have the tactics and training to deal with as much as we possibly can...

Yup, Yup.
+1, +2, +3.....

[DeaconKC]

Okay, technical definition of slingshot rack is grabbing the slide from the rear with thumb on one side and fingers on the other, like when you used a slingshot as a kid. Overhand is where you use the hand over the top of the slide, grabbing the serrations, giving you more upper body strength to rack the slide. The table method is using one hand to rack or release the slide by hooking the sights on the edge of a tabletop to shove the slide back. Or with a 5" 1911 with traditional recoil plug you can shove the slide against the table and rack it like that. Hope this makes it a little clearer.

[espresso]

...do you sincerely have the fortitude to take the life of another...A tought question that I wish no man would ever have to answer...

Any way, sorry got a lil heavy there...my point, constantly train and grow and learn everything you can because you never know what you will need to be able to do...

Don't apologize, you have earned the right to get a lil heavy my friend and God bless you for it.

I think about that a lot, could I take another life? I mulled over that question for about a year or so as I was on the fence about getting my CHP. When I think about that question I try to focus on my wife and 2 kids. I owe it to them as well as myself to act if I really have no other choice.
I sure hope I NEVER have to find out how I would react.

[Infidel proud]

Thanks for the kind words...and yeah we do owe it to our loved ones and I think thats the best justification you can have for it...its at the core of why I carry myself...

[tv_racin_fan]

Infidel I think you for your service sir.

Loved ones...

I asked my wife could she shoot someone.. she said I don't think so.. then I asked could you shoot someone who was trying to hurt your grandchildren. She said "OF COURSE!" so I told her don't you think shooting someone who was trying to hurt you was the same as shooting someone trying to hurt your grandchildren because if they hurt you your grands dont have you to take of them anymore. She looked at me and said she hadn't thought of it that way and YES she agreed with that sentiment. She got herself a permit... I figure hesitation is the enemy of the person who carries, if you don't believe you will shoot a bad guy without hesitation then you probably shouldn't carry.

[Infidel proud]

Thanks for your appreciation, my service is my honor and privledge...

Had a similar discussion with my wife as well...While she has shown interest in carrying, she also doesn't think she could ever shoot anyone, unless they were trying to harm one of our children...She also said "why do I need to carry when I have you around"...Now that I will be deployed again for 6 months she is starting to change her tune a little but she still isn't there yet...been takin her to the range and what not trying to build her skill set and confidence...I have until february to get her squared away...I will at least give her access to a firearm or two when Im gone...at least she will know how to use them...oh BTW, we have two 95 pound doberman's in the house...bought those last time she didn't feel safe with me gone, guess its a start...

[muggsy]

Please allow me to add this fly to the ointment. I can slingshot or use the slide release on my 1911s, CM9, and P380 with no problems. There is no difference between the two if you employ the proper sling shot method. Using the slide release method does cause wear on the notch and slide release, but not enough wear that most guns won't outlive their owners. One of my 1911s was made in 1913 and still functions as intended with all of it's original parts.