View Full Version : Ammo mistake
gm412
06-11-2012, 11:09 AM
I was tired of paying high prices for ammo for my p380. So far it shoots everything I have put into it. So when I saw Sellier Bellot FMJ Ammo - $225.00 at SGAmmo with good reviews I jumped on it and bought 1000 rounds. Went to the range yesterday and in the first clip of 6 I had one fail to feed and 3 misfires. Put the 3 misfires back in and tried again. They still did not go bang. So now I am stuck with 1000 rounds of ammo I can't use. Put Federal from Wal mart in it and no problem. I will never break my rule of buying a box of 50 before buying quantity again.
emopunker2004
06-11-2012, 11:18 AM
I think S&B has hard primers. Just sell the ammo
TucsonMTB
06-11-2012, 11:30 AM
I was tired of paying high prices for ammo for my p380. So far it shoots everything I have put into it. So when I saw Sellier Bellot FMJ Ammo - $225.00 at SGAmmo with good reviews I jumped on it and bought 1000 rounds. Went to the range yesterday and in the first clip of 6 I had one fail to feed and 3 misfires. Put the 3 misfires back in and tried again. They still did not go bang. So now I am stuck with 1000 rounds of ammo I can't use. Put Federal from Wal mart in it and no problem. I will never break my rule of buying a box of 50 before buying quantity again.
That is a good rule, but S&B has a good reputation.
I'm guessing that by "misfires" you mean the round fed correctly but did not fire when struck by the firing pin. Would you say the marks made by the firing pin are unusually light?
If the slide is in battery properly, light strikes are sometimes the result of junk in the striker channel. You might want to clean yours before declaring a total loss.
Best of luck . . . we will be interested to hear of your progress toward making this stuff useful. Conversely, at that price, you can probably sell it off to people with guns that it works in, which should be just about anyone. ;)
Jriss138
06-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Very strange, I had good luck with the box of 50 I bought for my P380. I believe they were the 50-100 rounds in my break in period as well.
wyntrout
06-11-2012, 12:14 PM
I've fired thousands of these and it's my #1 P380 ammo... for both of them.
Have you cleaned your striker pin channel and tried to see if your pistol needs adjustment or something? If I had more than 2 misfires with a pistol like that, I would suspect my pistol is not 100%!
Good luck! I've never had to write off a particular ammo, except for Wolf steel-cased stuff. It was smokey and stank! I think they used pretty fresh fertilizer or something... not as refined? It shot well, though... "BANG" and hit the target!
Wynn:)
OldLincoln
06-11-2012, 12:19 PM
Don't know how many rounds you have through your gun, but 2 things come to mind. Could it be time for a new recoil spring?, and have you cleaned out the striker channel?
A new recoil spring should come with a new striker spring so that would satisfy both issues. Plus you have to take down the upper to change the striker spring so you can clean out the channel making sure no debris at all remains.
That is not to say your new ammo is as good as other brands, I don't know, but if you can get your gun to shoot it for the cost of a recoil spring and cleaning you will likely come out ahead over selling ammo.
TucsonMTB
06-11-2012, 12:38 PM
I was tired of paying high prices for ammo for my p380. . . .
Well, by now you have probably noticed that most of us who have replied are suggesting you clean the striker channel. If you don't want to tear down the slide, get the most energetic (highest pressure) brake cleaner you can find and use the small hole in the bottom of your slide, intended for this purpose, to spray the heck out of the channel. Holding back the striker with our finger while spraying increases the flow rate out of the hole in the breach face, which helps remove junk. Then, cover the hole in the breach face and spray liberally again to blast stuff out the back of the channel.
Once you are sure it is clean, be sure to lube well (except the striker channel) as described in the lubrication sticky. The cleaner will have stripped all lubricant from the slide. Remember to put a drop behind the extractor and wiggle the extractor with a piece of wood or plastic to get the lubricant into the spring channel the operates the extractor.
If that simple procedure doesn't solve the issue, it may be time to sell the ammo. However, there may be something else preventing the action from closing into battery correctly. If there is, fixing that issue might be worthwhile.
Best of luck!
gm412
06-11-2012, 12:45 PM
Don't know how many rounds you have through your gun, but 2 things come to mind. Could it be time for a new recoil spring?, and have you cleaned out the striker channel?
A new recoil spring should come with a new striker spring so that would satisfy both issues. Plus you have to take down the upper to change the striker spring so you can clean out the channel making sure no debris at all remains.
That is not to say your new ammo is as good as other brands, I don't know, but if you can get your gun to shoot it for the cost of a recoil spring and cleaning you will likely come out ahead over selling ammo.
I have almost 1000 rounds through it. This gun went back to Kahr about 500 rounds ago for light strikes, failure to feed and other problems. It has been fine since I got it back. One strange thing is when I sent it in this gun was so stiff it was almost impossible to rack. When I got it back it was very easy to rack. Almost too easy but it worked great.
So should I do the brake fluid spray in the striker channel? When I looked at the primer after trying to fire it I could not even see where it had struck the primer. In the past before I sent it to Kahr, if I tried to fire the same ammo after a light strike it would fire the second time. But this time I reloaded the ones that had not gone bang and they would not go bang the second time either. At this time I just switched to federal and had no more problems.
yqtszhj
06-11-2012, 12:50 PM
I would clean the striker channel if you haven't done it. Spray that brake cleaner (no oil) in the cleanout hole. I bought a bunch of S&B 9MM and except for one round where the primer was BACKWARDS :eek: it all has worked so far.
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 12:56 PM
I'd take the slide down and clean and inspect that striker channel. If your not even seeing a strike mark it's not hitting. There a good tutorial in the tech section. It's not tough and once you've done it once you'll think it's easy.
Since it was easy to rack when you got it back I suspect it didn't get a new recoil spring at the 500 mark or maybe it got a lighter spring, can't imagine they wouldn't just replace it automatically.
I'd clean and see what you find, if that fails get a spring, if that fails back to kahr for a makeover.
I don't like that ammo (can't even remember why) but it should work regardless.
I'm leaning towards a gun issue rather than ammo issue.
yqtszhj
06-11-2012, 01:04 PM
I'd take the slide down and clean and inspect that striker channel. If your not even seeing a strike mark it's not hitting. There a good tutorial in the tech section. It's not tough and once you've done it once you'll think it's easy.
.
And use Ripley's coat hanger striker spring holder, no spring in the eye thingy idea. I can't find the picture but there is one around.
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 01:43 PM
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197
yqtszhj
06-11-2012, 02:13 PM
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197
Dang, you're good. :third:
I have a rule that I made some years ago. If it ain't made by Federal, Speer, Winchester or Remington I don't shoot it. I know there are other good brands out there, (Corbon and Hornady to name a couple) but that's just me.
TucsonMTB
06-11-2012, 02:53 PM
I have a rule that I made some years ago. If it ain't made by Federal, Speer, Winchester or Remington I don't shoot it. I know there are other good brands out there, (Corbon and Hornady to name a couple) but that's just me.
Yeah . . . and if your striker is unable to move because of accumulated junk in the channel . . . the brand of ammo that does not fire because the striker does not hit it will not matter. ;)
gm412
06-11-2012, 03:33 PM
Yeah . . . and if your striker is unable to move because of accumulated junk in the channel . . . the brand of ammo that does not fire because the striker does not hit it will not matter. ;)
So far this is the only ammo I have had trouble with. I am going to clean the chennel but I think if it was the striker this would happen at least once in a while with other types of ammo. But, I have been wrong before, so I will clean it and try again. The same day I used Federal with no problem and Winchester the week before.
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 03:40 PM
Wonder if in addition to the primers being perhaps harder they are also seated deeper? If the striker protrusion is minimal maybe it's just not long enough to hit well enough?
Before you disassemble you might take the slide off, hold down the button for the drop safety and push the striker forward manually and see how much of the tip shows.
Then after cleaning the channel you might be able to tell if your getting more protrusion.
Your right it would seem if the striker channel was bad you'd get sporadic light strikes with other ammo too.
I have used S&B ammo to break in a P380. Come to think of it I had one or two failure to fires, but I had a pretty good ding in the primer. The second try the rounds went off. I have heard they tend to have hard primers, but for the most part I really have had good results with this ammo. I did notice however, that they do seal all of their primers with a red/clear laquer, just like some of the .556mmm ball ammo the Army use to issue to use in the field. I wouldn't think this should cause any problems...just an observation.
Ditto, clean channel, use new striker spring.
TucsonMTB
06-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Ditto, clean channel, use new striker spring.
It doesn't seem likely that Mr. gm412 would be comfortable taking apart the slide to replace the spring. That is why I suggested spraying. No challenge. As much as 95% effective, unless he has some scrap metal in there from when it was built. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 04:46 PM
It doesn't seem likely that Mr. gm412 would be comfortable taking apart the slide to replace the spring. That is why I suggested spraying. No challenge. As much as 95% effective, unless he has some scrap metal in there from when it was built. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif
That was sort of why I suggested taking it down. Spraying might work but no way to know for sure if there is big junk in there.
I almost think it's unlikely but only way to tell is to look.
Maybe we have another member close for some hands on help if needed?
jocko
06-11-2012, 04:48 PM
Wonder if in addition to the primers being perhaps harder they are also seated deeper? If the striker protrusion is minimal maybe it's just not long enough to hit well enough?
Before you disassemble you might take the slide off, hold down the button for the drop safety and push the striker forward manually and see how much of the tip shows.
Then after cleaning the channel you might be able to tell if your getting more protrusion.
Your right it would seem if the striker channel was bad you'd get sporadic light strikes with other ammo too.
protrusion, I will have to rememberthat word:behindsofa:
gm412
06-11-2012, 06:26 PM
That was sort of why I suggested taking it down. Spraying might work but no way to know for sure if there is big junk in there.
I almost think it's unlikely but only way to tell is to look.
Maybe we have another member close for some hands on help if needed?
I have never done it but I guess it is time to learn. I avoid these things when I can because I have a tendency to get them apart and then have trouble getting them back together.:confused: Then my daughter learns all kind of new words she is not allowed to say.:31:
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 06:38 PM
I generally agree and don't take anything apart that don't need to be took apart. In this case I think it's the best approach short of sending it in for a check up.
Imagine how great you'll feel is you find a big piece of junk in there and it works perfectly afterwards? That's never happened to me before but it just has to be a good feeling.
It really is not difficult on the striker and spring assembly. If you take the extractor out and it's chain you have to get those back in proper sequence and the extractor oriented correctly. It's not difficult either and I say this as a simple slightly below average half man.
Think if a cave man can do it. I can do it, so can you.
Don't risk the children though. They are very fragile. Close the door, cuss quietly. Lots of help if you need it.
Bawanna
06-11-2012, 06:53 PM
There's some sound logic in your approach. Certainly nothing to lose and everything to gain.
OldLincoln
06-11-2012, 07:11 PM
Somebody here sprayed the channel regularly and decided to take it apart for chuckles. They added a pic of what looked like a gold strike is some mountain creek. Stuff can sometimes find it's way in but spray may not always get it out. If the crud is limiting the full path of the striker and the primers on that ammo are set deeper than norm, you would experience exactly what you are. Flush primers are getting just enough hit to fire, inset primers are missed. Look at a sampling of the primers that fired and see how much of a strike they took.
IF I'm right, (solid chance I'm not) then your gun may not be as trustworthy as you think. If it were mine I'd have it apart before I shot it next.
It doesn't seem likely that Mr. gm412 would be comfortable taking apart the slide to replace the spring. That is why I suggested spraying. No challenge. As much as 95% effective, unless he has some scrap metal in there from when it was built. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif
Or the spring might not be right. He doesn't have to change it himself.....
Dirt doc
06-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Cleaning the striker channel doesn't cost much and it normally isn't a major undertaking so I'd start there as others have recommended. However, have you noticed whether or not the weapon is fully returning to battery with the S&B?
gm412
06-13-2012, 09:00 AM
OK cleaned and lubed the 380. Used brake cleaner through the hole. No dirt seemed to come out like the first time when I received the 380. Went to the range. Put 2 clips of federal through it with no problem. Then tried the new ammo again. Pulled out a box of 50. Everything was fine. All rounds fired as expected until the last clip. The slide locked open after the first round. (now I remember this happened the last time). Hand racked pulled trigger and nothing. Looked at primer no mark. But, there was no click after pulling trigger. As if it did not cock. Hand racked next round, same problem. Took out the magazine and put the two rounds back in. Reloaded and no problem, all rounds fired as expected.
Charlie
06-13-2012, 08:15 PM
S&B is good ammo, follow the experienced advice and clean your weapon throughly with a weapons grade cleaner. The problem with brake cleaner is that it removes everything , and leaves you with moving parts and no lubrication. leaving a kerosene based bore cleaner there gives you some sort of lubrication. As for the feeding issues, add in limp wristing.
Cokeman
06-14-2012, 01:58 AM
Send it all to me. Mine likes S&B just fine.
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