Kahr PM9 Failure To Reset

[SnowKahr]

Well I was out at the range with a few pistols on Saturday, June 2nd. I figured I'd put some rounds through my PM9 too, as it's my EDC. I bought it brand new in the fall of 2010.

In its short life it has already gone back to Kahr the week of my purchase in 2010, as the front night sight was dead. Wasn't overly impressed the first time around as it took over a month to receive the slide with the defective night sight repaired, back from them.

So onto the current issue. I was firing my clean PM9 (only 600 rounds through it, with 0 previous FTF or issues) with Blazer Brass 9mm, and after firing four flawless 6 round mags through it...pulled the trigger, it fired once...then pulled again and nothing. Trigger did not reset. This problem persisted for the rest of the time at the range. Took the gun down checked everything, all looked a okay. Put back together, and still had the same issue. One shot, then nothing, just a sponge trigger that gave my finger some exercise. To say lightly, I was not happy. This is the firearm I carry, and a one shot pistol is not something that's acceptable to me. So I figured I'd call Kahr customer service first thing that Monday and see what they could do for me before I rushed to judgement on my PM9...which up until this incident, was my favorite carry piece.

So I spoke with customer service on the 4th of June, and the gentleman suggested that my recoil spring assembly may be defective, or need early replacement. He stated that they typically recommend they be replaced at 1,200-1,500 round intervals. So my only option was to purchase one from Kahr. I went through their website and purchased two (one for range one for carry) of the new style (15 coils on outer spring) recoil assembly's. I chose USPS priority, and received them on Saturday the 9th of June. I opened the package and they had sent me 2 incorrect recoil assembly's. One was a 13 coil on outer spring (Old style, as described by Kahr's website) The other was a 12 coil on outer spring (Defective? Not listed on their site)

At this point I was again very unhappy, as I had planned to take it out over the weekend and put 300 rounds through it to make sure it operates flawlessly. If not then I would be sending it in to Kahr, as directed by their customer service after I ruled this out. Again, decided to give them a chance to make me happy before getting too upset.

So I called Kahr first thing this morning, and described my situation to their customer service. The gentleman I spoke with had little concern for my issue, and said he could send me a return label for the incorrect order, and would send replacements when the original shipment was received back. This was unacceptable to me, as I the customer was being punished, for their mistake. So I spoke to another representative, who offered to send me the correct parts standard USPS. I asked for expedited shipping, as I want to get my EDC back up and running ASAP. She would not accommodate and directed me to a manager's voicemail after I re-explained the situation. The manager did not return my call, and all further calls to Kahr throughout the day went unanswered.

So at this point I'm beginning to lose confidence in their ability to resolve this in a manner one should expect them to.
This "fix" seems as if it wouldn't be the solution to the problem that is causing my trigger to fail to reset. As the gun goes into battery after the first successful shot. So my fear is after two weeks of incorrect parts going back and forth, more if they get it wrong again, that the end solution is going to be me sending it back to them for another 2 to who knows how many weeks. If it took a month and a half to pop in a new front night sight, I don't know what to expect on an issue like this.

I want to be happy with my PM9 again, as I truly love this gun. Long first post! If anyone has any helpful advice, or has experienced this issue, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CJB]

Couple of things to say.

First, patience is a virtue. You got them to ship you new parts! Be happy that the problem was corrected.

Next, the recoil spring and striker spring fight each other. The striker is tensioned on the cam, and if left to its own whims, would push the slide out of battery. Imagine that the striker wants to move forward, but can't do so, however the slide can move backward.... if it weren't for the force of the recoil spring pushing in the opposite direction!

Since you were able to fire one shot, from the magazine, I don't think the problem is the recoil spring. If it were, the pistol would exhibit the problem under the same circumstances under which you got it to fire repeatedly (one shot, every time).

So to me, it sounds like you got some crud someplace, or a wee bit of loose leftover plastic shaving... something, in the trigger and / or sideplate area. You can field strip the pistol, and have a look see, and try to find what is holding the trigger from resetting. I know, it should be Kahr's thing to do... but its easier and quicker, and you'll learn something too.

Here's whats going on - when you load the first round from the magazine, your finger is off the trigger, there is no reset that needs to happen, and the pistol ends up happy and ready to be cocked. When the pistol self-loads from the magazine, your finger is still pulling the trigger, the disconnector action of the drawbar deactivates the connection between trigger and cam, and you must release the trigger to "reset" the disconnecting action. Thats where the hold up is.

Using an empty magazine, you can test it by holding the trigger back while releasing the slide stop (ok, drop the mag down a bit to do that....). Now try to "reset" the trigger and "dry fire" a shot. No workee, I'm sure.

Do the same thing, but nudge the trigger forward after you release it, then try dry firing a shot. It might work, and would also suggest that there is some crud or plastic shaving or flake that is messing up the works.... prompting further investigation and correction.

[340pd]

Have you cleaned the striker channel? Spray cleaner in the hole at the bottom of the slide may show a lot of debris contributing to your issues.

[Seafood Guy]

That's why I bought three different guns for my EDC. That way if one needs to go back, I have a spare.

I realize your frustration, as I too, just received my PM40 back from Kahr yesterday after it was breaking mag followers. Took about two weeks.

[DM123]

Couple things I've noticed with my Kahr pistols as well as other brands that have close tolerances.

It takes several hundred rounds to adequately break them in. The sloppy brands of guns I own with loose tolerances don't need this.

I bought two P380s recently, a his and hers. The grove in the metal slide where it slides on the polymer part of both needed some smoothing out a bit with 600 grit sanding cloth to smooth out a few machine burrs on my new P380s. This, again was due to tight tolerances. This saved me several hundred rounds of the break-in process. My older guns don't need this.

I put a product called slide-glide on the above mentioned part as well. Most likely any similar product would work equally as well.

The cleaning procedure for Kahrs needs to be followed closely as well, especially the hole where cleaning product is used to clean the striker. I think there is a link on this sight for proper cleaning.

[Charlie]

A weapon you depend on has to be reliable to the point of boring. If you dont have confidence in a weapon dont carry it. Every make of anything will always have a few lemons. Get the pistol repaired by kahr and trade it.

[kerby9mm]

A weapon you depend on has to be reliable to the point of boring. If you dont have confidence in a weapon dont carry it. Every make of anything will always have a few lemons. Get the pistol repaired by kahr and trade it.

IMO if the gun is repaired by Kahr and then is reliable after enough rounds to prove so then why trade it. I would think that is now like a new gun that I just purchased and reliability tested. If it is not yet reliable tell Kahr to take it back again. I would think one would feel guilty from passing on an unreliable gun to someone else.

[SnowKahr]

Couple of things to say.

First, patience is a virtue. You got them to ship you new parts! Be happy that the problem was corrected.

Agreed on patience. As for the rest...Well, not exactly. I had to pay for the parts, and the shipping...and received the wrong ones. I spent the last 3 days attempting to get the correct ones re-shipped and have been unsuccessful. Keep getting sent to a CS manager, Melanie's voicemail, and do not get a return call.


Next, the recoil spring and striker spring fight each other. The striker is tensioned on the cam, and if left to its own whims, would push the slide out of battery. Imagine that the striker wants to move forward, but can't do so, however the slide can move backward.... if it weren't for the force of the recoil spring pushing in the opposite direction!

Since you were able to fire one shot, from the magazine, I don't think the problem is the recoil spring. If it were, the pistol would exhibit the problem under the same circumstances under which you got it to fire repeatedly (one shot, every time).

So to me, it sounds like you got some crud someplace, or a wee bit of loose leftover plastic shaving... something, in the trigger and / or sideplate area. You can field strip the pistol, and have a look see, and try to find what is holding the trigger from resetting. I know, it should be Kahr's thing to do... but its easier and quicker, and you'll learn something too.

Here's whats going on - when you load the first round from the magazine, your finger is off the trigger, there is no reset that needs to happen, and the pistol ends up happy and ready to be cocked. When the pistol self-loads from the magazine, your finger is still pulling the trigger, the disconnector action of the drawbar deactivates the connection between trigger and cam, and you must release the trigger to "reset" the disconnecting action. Thats where the hold up is.

Using an empty magazine, you can test it by holding the trigger back while releasing the slide stop (ok, drop the mag down a bit to do that....). Now try to "reset" the trigger and "dry fire" a shot. No workee, I'm sure.

Do the same thing, but nudge the trigger forward after you release it, then try dry firing a shot. It might work, and would also suggest that there is some crud or plastic shaving or flake that is messing up the works.... prompting further investigation and correction.

I also tried some of these dryfire tests, and agree that the issue isn't the recoil assembly. I did clean and inspect everything again, as noted. I decided to give up on the parts and just send my gun in for them to repair, as I do think the issue resides elsewhere. I got through to Rich in their repair dept, and he was EXTREMELY helpful. He immediately took down my issue, created a RMA and shipped me an overnight label. I headed to fedex, and the pistol is already out for delivery to Kahr this morning. So I am hopeful that they will take care of it and restore my confidence.

[SnowKahr]

Have you cleaned the striker channel? Spray cleaner in the hole at the bottom of the slide may show a lot of debris contributing to your issues.

I did try this, thanks. It didn't seem like this was a problem area, as it was fairly clean.

[SnowKahr]

That's why I bought three different guns for my EDC. That way if one needs to go back, I have a spare.
I LIKE this...hmmm...sounds like I the best plan is to go shopping, it's the "responsible" thing to do...gotta have a backup!:w00t:


I realize your frustration, as I too, just received my PM40 back from Kahr yesterday after it was breaking mag followers. Took about two weeks.
It's always tough sending them in, and playing the waiting game. I am hopeful that mine will be back in about two weeks as well...and with the issue resolved. Did they completely take care of the issue on your PM40?

[SnowKahr]

IMO if the gun is repaired by Kahr and then is reliable after enough rounds to prove so then why trade it. I would think that is now like a new gun that I just purchased and reliability tested. If it is not yet reliable tell Kahr to take it back again. I would think one would feel guilty from passing on an unreliable gun to someone else.

I think this is the route I will go, as I love my PM9, and carry it more frequently than any other pistol I own. I will definitely put it through its paces when I get it back from Kahr, and make sure that it restores my confidence in it, before I begin to carry it again.


Couple things I've noticed with my Kahr pistols as well as other brands that have close tolerances.

It takes several hundred rounds to adequately break them in. The sloppy brands of guns I own with loose tolerances don't need this.

I bought two P380s recently, a his and hers. The grove in the metal slide where it slides on the polymer part of both needed some smoothing out a bit with 600 grit sanding cloth to smooth out a few machine burrs on my new P380s. This, again was due to tight tolerances. This saved me several hundred rounds of the break-in process. My older guns don't need this.

I put a product called slide-glide on the above mentioned part as well. Most likely any similar product would work equally as well.

The cleaning procedure for Kahrs needs to be followed closely as well, especially the hole where cleaning product is used to clean the striker. I think there is a link on this sight for proper cleaning.

Thanks for the info.


A weapon you depend on has to be reliable to the point of boring. If you dont have confidence in a weapon dont carry it. Every make of anything will always have a few lemons. Get the pistol repaired by kahr and trade it.

I can definitely see your point. Two other pistols I own...not to be comparing apple to oranges...but a Glock and H&K, I have never experienced a FTF with, or any kind of failure. However, my PM9 is really what I carry most as it is sized appropriately and can be carried easily. I feel that if Kahr repairs it, and I can get a few hundred round through it without any issue, I would feel comfortable with it again. I guess time will tell.