PM9 feed issue

[jeepster09]

Has anyone else had a problem when putting in new magazine the first round does not go in without a lot of hassle...
Once the first is in the remaining rounds all cycle fine. I would hate to have to switch mags during a time of need and have the first new round jamb. :mad: It does it on every mag change on my PM9.

[jeep45238]

Are you using the slide stop or are you grabbing the slide and pulling it back?

Are you loading the magazine to full capacity? Are you pushing the cartridge all the way to the rear of the feedlips?

Is the feed ramp clean and smooth to the touch?

[jeepster09]

Are you using the slide stop or are you grabbing the slide and pulling it back?

Are you loading the magazine to full capacity? Are you pushing the cartridge all the way to the rear of the feedlips?

Is the feed ramp clean and smooth to the touch?

I have used slide stop and pulled back.
Feed ramp clean and smooth.
Magazines full to cap.

It appears to be issue with mags, they don't hold rounds in very well, when carrying spare mag in pocket they regularly lose a round or two into pocket. Looks like the way they are made compared to other types, such as my 1911's etc. which hold rounds snugly.

[TxKahr]

Before I started using the "flip the slide lock" method recommended in the manual, I had problems with the first round. I found that if I hit the back of the slide, the slide would close and the bullet would be chambered. I did not like hitting the slide, so I started flipping the slide lock and the issue has not happened since.

Because of the initial problems with feeding the first round, I also decided to always carry one in the chamber. I do not want to be fighting with my slide or even worrying about it when in a defensive situation.

TxKahr

[jeep45238]

I have used slide stop and pulled back.
Feed ramp clean and smooth.
Magazines full to cap.

It appears to be issue with mags, they don't hold rounds in very well, when carrying spare mag in pocket they regularly lose a round or two into pocket. Looks like the way they are made compared to other types, such as my 1911's etc. which hold rounds snugly.


How many rounds through the gun yet?

That description does not sound normal - none of mine will easily let a cartridge fall out.

[Rbrown7]

With my PM9 I've found that my 2 six round mags will reliably feed only if loaded to 5 rounds. The exception is loading 6 and then charging from open slide using slide release. Problem appears related to the taper of the 9mm case causing the top rounds to progressively nose dive in a single stack magazine. Even though feed ramp is in good polished condition the bullet hangs on the feed ramp and a tap of the rear of the slide is needed to chamber the first round with a full magazine when charging from closed slide. For both my mags the problem is bad enough to cause frequent FTF with 6 rounds in the mag but not with 5 rounds. Has same problem if I load one in the chamber and then insert a full 6 round mag. Happens with both ball ammo and Gold Dot Short barrel JHP.

[tarheelbball]

I found that if I hit the back of the slide, the slide would close and the bullet would be chambered.
This has and is the only way I can carry 6+1 and it works. Now this happens while I practice at home and it has only happen a few times during the break in per period. I'm at 400 rounds.

[DustyJacket]

Until you get it ironed out, do what every combat pistol instructor says and count your rounds as you shoot. Reload when the magazine is empty and one round in the chamber.

Soo how that works for you.

(I've had the same issue with my PM9. Only the 6 round magazines.)

[jocko]

If the gun is basically new, all it needs is more rounds down range. It will and should feed properly from a fuly loaded magazine. Never carry a kahr magazine in ones pocket and expect the rounds to sit there, they will not. It is kahrs design of the magazine. Criticise them if you want but that is the way they are designed, and I would assume is has something to do with the offset feed ramp. which allows the gun to have a much lower center bore axis, therefore a more pleasant gun to shoot... It is what it is, accept it. Loading from an open slide is what kahr recommends to do. If it is not doing that properly after a couple hundred rounds through the gun, indeed the first thing to do is change the recoil springs. I strongly recommend going to the wolffs 20.5 recoil springs for the PM9, over the factory 18# springs. They will work the slide alot better on loading that first round.

hand rack ing of kahrs are for some reason a real beech for many, I myself have over 25,800 rounds out of my PM9 and I still if I ride that slide any at all, will get ftf. Not the guns fault and I know that, so I do try to always use the slide lock lever to load that first round and it never fails me. I do strongly advise learning both ways. One needs to master the tap, rack, and bang thing to and these little guns are harder to do that drill than the bigger semi's and kahr recoil springs are the stoutest in the industry.

If you gonna carry a spare loaded magazine, indeed carry it in one of those nylon pouches with a velcro cover. The rounds will stay put that way. Counting rounds is a good drill but if you don't carry a spare mag, it is a mute point. Most do not carry a spare magaazine on them. I never have, just running out of pocket space and my PM9 rides in my front pocket 24/7. If your gonna waist band carry I can see where a spare mag holder would be no more visible than the gun itself. YMMV

If one can load from a open slide using the slide lock and not properly from a closed slide, then one needs to practice alot more in that drill. It it works one way and not the other, that in itself should tell one something.

You ought to try hand racking the little Kahr P380, now there for me is one beech of a gun to hand rack, Never fails using the slide lock release but my hand racking success with the P380 is marginal at best. Again I know where the fault lies to. Smaller the gun normaly harded to hand rack properly as these mfg-ers have to squeeze in some heavier recoil springs to offset the limit the slide moves etc, and the gun itself is small to get a good hold on also.

They say the best way to clear a jam etc is to cup your hand over the slide and rack back fast instead of grabbing the back of the slide with a few fingers. This works absolutely super on "bigger" guns, The small guns kinda prohibit one from using that method..

Just take your time with the PM9, it is a super well made gun, that everyone can find quirks in it that they don't like or wish was otherwise. As long as it goes bang every time etc, that is #1, these other little things can be worked out with just time at the range etc.. I don't particularry like the looks of my g19 compared to some either but that sucker goes bang all the time and shoots damn close to where I aim.
I don't shoot my PM9 near as good as I do my G19, but I now why also, It bothers me naught either, as guys I personally do believe the PM9 is the finest 9mm pocket gun on the market. If I was to waist band carry, more than likely it would be another brand .

When my super accurate G19 sits on the vanity in my house it does me no good when at the mall, if u get my point..

[wyntrout]

I've only had problems with that darn 7-round mag with the extended grip. It shoots 4 then the last three hang up toward the front of the mag and nosed too low to be stripped off in the chambering process.
For pocket carry, check my posts on the Tactical Kydex mag holders. Mitchell has been making those for $16 a pair, including shipping. You can order a pair and cut off the clip per my instructions and you have an adjustable-tension holder for pocket carry -- can't beat the price. I wouldn't even think of putting a mag into one of those velcroed pouches. You need access with one hand while you're keeping an eye on the threat and using available cover -- not fumbling with the pouch. You can adjust the retention and practice getting the magazine free with one hand and your magazine will be protected in your pocket with all of the rounds where you left them.
Wynn:)

http://kahrtalk.com/holsters-gear/996-pix-new-tactical-kydex-mag-holders.html#post14370

[deadhead1971]

I have been back pocket carrying the spare 7 rd magazine with no problem. The magazine lays horizontally at the bottom of the back pocket with the bullets facing up. I don't use a pouch of nothin'.

[jocko]

ur lucky

[wyntrout]

That's like bragging about golfing during thunderstorms 'cause you've never been struck by lightning!:eek: it only takes that once!
Wynn:rolleyes:

[Buckeye Fan]

Hi All

I'm new to this forum but was referred by deadhead1971 as I am the proud new owner of a black PM9 w/night sites. The issue I am having is similar to what some have said here in that I get random FTFs where the slide will lock open with rounds still in the magazine. I have no problems with feeding the first round or ejecting but it has me concerned that this is happening.

I put the first 250 rounds of fmj downrange with no issues at all. Then tried my SD ammo, 124gr Gold Dots, Win Ranger Bonded 147gr, Win Ranger Bonded 124+P and had at least 1-2 FTF with each type. Went back next day and had a couple more FTF with the GD and 1 with ball ammo. These mags seem odd to me and the rounds do seem to load and ride differently than I am used to with my other semi autos. I can deal with the mag design being harder to load, but any ideas why my slide randomly locks open with rounds still in the mag? I am making sure the rounds are seated all the way back when they go in and it's never the first or last round...always some where in the middle.

So, I've got a total of near 700 rounds through. First 250 of ball went fine, then had 5 FTF with 200 rounds of SD ammo, then shot 150 fmj without issue, then had one FTF with GD and one with ball ammo in the last 100.

Any ideas? Thanks folks.

Brian

[deadhead1971]

It seems like the ball ammo is almost near reliable. Is your feed ramp mirror silver shiny or dull finish? I got a new barrel by warranty, and this new barrel's feed ramp is a lot more polished than the first. I can almost see my reflection in it.

[jocko]

BUCKEYE FAN; about the only two things that can cause premature slide lock opening isL
#1 your thumb is accidently hitting the slide lock lever and engaging it and you don't know it. It is very common. try shooting it left handed, or change your thumb postion, or let another shooter try it.
#2. Take your slide off the gun and reinsert the slide stop lever, now insert slowly a loaded magazine and view from the top and see if that top round is hitting the inside of the slide stop lever and actually pushing it upward. That is a NO NO. Call kahr and explain and they will send u a new slide stop lever.

Those are about the only two things that can cause what your having. All those defense rounds will and should work perfect in ur kahr. Kahrs are not ammo sensitive IMO.

You state some FTF, failure to feed, this could be, from a tired shooter, or the gun wanting to turn in ur grip causing the gun to not function properly. A gun and the shooter must both mate up to get reliable. If the shooter does his part,normally the gun will just follow along to. Keep an eye on your grip, consciously anyhow. try to eliminate things that definitely can be seen and tested out.

[Buckeye Fan]

Thanks Jocko and Deadhead. The feed ramp on mine is baby-butt smooth and as shiny as my almost bald head.... like a mirror!:D I'm pretty sure it's not the feed ramp though because the rounds aren't jamming or getting stuck on the ramp..rather they're not even getting pushed forward because the slide is locking back. That was my definition of an FTF...not in the true sense of a jam.

Jocko, I did what you said and the rounds are ever so close to touching the angled "tab" on the inside of the lock lever. I mean, like human hair close and if I put any external pressure with my thumb on the lever from the outside it does move it enough to make it touch the bullet. Also, following that logic, I can see how my grip with my thumb basically resting on the lever could indeed cause it to move during recoil. I think you're on to something!

Even when the bullet comes up perfectly straight it is still almost touching the lever tab so if a round feeds up slighty crooked, I can see where it would indeed contact the inner tab on the lever. Even when it touches the tab though, there is quite a bit of spring pressure for the bullet to have to overcome on the lever to push it upwards but You think it could be doing that?

Which begs the next question, is it normal for the bullet to be that close to the lever tab? I think it may be that and/or my thumb pressing in on the lever during recoil as I am pretty sure I was resting my thumb on or just below the lever.

[Vinikahr]

Triple thread match?

[Buckeye Fan]

Woah! Not sure how that happened! And they're an hour or so apart? I deleted the other two. Huh? Sorry!

[jeepster09]

Thanks for all the GOOD feedback.:)

[PigButtons]

Triple thread match?

Yea, I think the sear on his keyboard is failing to disengage leading to full automatic until the mag is empty.:D

[Buckeye Fan]

Well I think it was all me, or at least my thumb causing the slide lock issue. I've since shot 300 more flawless rounds being consciously aware of keeping my thumbs away from the slide lock lever. Why do they need make that think so obtrusive? Anyway, I think I got it figured out so thanks everyone for the help. (I hope this doesn't post three time like the last one). :-)

[jocko]

it is normal. some might 4e
Thanks Jocko and Deadhead. The feed ramp on mine is baby-butt smooth and as shiny as my almost bald head.... like a mirror!:D I'm pretty sure it's not the feed ramp though because the rounds aren't jamming or getting stuck on the ramp..rather they're not even getting pushed forward because the slide is locking back. That was my definition of an FTF...not in the true sense of a jam.

Jocko, I did what you said and the rounds are ever so close to touching the angled "tab" on the inside of the lock lever. I mean, like human hair close and if I put any external pressure with my thumb on the lever from the outside it does move it enough to make it touch the bullet. Also, following that logic, I can see how my grip with my thumb basically resting on the lever could indeed cause it to move during recoil. I think you're on to something!

Even when the bullet comes up perfectly straight it is still almost touching the lever tab so if a round feeds up slighty crooked, I can see where it would indeed contact the inner tab on the lever. Even when it touches the tab though, there is quite a bit of spring pressure for the bullet to have to overcome on the lever to push it upwards but You think it could be doing that?

Which begs the next question, is it normal for the bullet to be that close to the lever tab? I think it may be that and/or my thumb pressing in on the lever during recoil as I am pretty sure I was resting my thumb on or just below the lever.


yes it is normal, and some roundsmight even brush that notch as it comes up in the magazine. That is OK. close is OK though, and I think you solvedyour issue anyhow with the thumb thing.

Take a dremel and just contour that slide lock lever. refer to Jocko's custom PM9 on ths forum and see my mod to the slide lock lever. I being a lefty never incur what u righties might incur but I want to modify that slide lock lever. It took me maybe 15 minutes from start to finish. Some just angle the bottom of the lever or reduce it some and also the end of the lever. I just contoured it all around as u can see..

[Buckeye Fan]

Hey thanks Jocko.....cool mod work too. Only problem I would have is mine is all black so if I start grinding away on the lock lever it's going to remove the bluing. Then it'll look like i hacked it up with a dremel for sure! Don't think the sharpie touch up will hold up!!! Unless there's an easier way to refinish the black finish that I don't know about.

[jocko]

Hey thanks Jocko.....cool mod work too. Only problem I would have is mine is all black so if I start grinding away on the lock lever it's going to remove the bluing. Then it'll look like i hacked it up with a dremel for sure! Don't think the sharpie touch up will hold up!!! Unless there's an easier way to refinish the black finish that I don't know about.

originally black also, I just left it with the matt stainless finish but Birchwood Blue will make it look original. I did that on the right side of the pin where it protruded out and I modifed it flush with the frame. It looks like the trigger pin now...

anyway just a suggestion. that wouldhelp eliminate hitting that slide lever. Probably changing your thumb grip/position a tad will take care of it also.

[unclenunzie]

Hey thanks Jocko.....cool mod work too. Only problem I would have is mine is all black so if I start grinding away on the lock lever it's going to remove the bluing. Then it'll look like i hacked it up with a dremel for sure! Don't think the sharpie touch up will hold up!!! Unless there's an easier way to refinish the black finish that I don't know about.

Glad you found the issue and a way to avoid it. You could order a slide stop from Kahr and modify that one, try something other than sharpie, etc.. or even use a stainless one for a kind of two tone effect ;)

[Buckeye Fan]

Thanks for a advice fellas. I think for now I'm just going to be more aware of where my thumbs are and see how it works. If it continues to be an issue I will probably order another stop lever and mod it. Thanks!

[xzhync]

I've only had problems with that darn 7-round mag with the extended grip. It shoots 4 then the last three hang up toward the front of the mag and nosed too low to be stripped off in the chambering process.
For pocket carry, check my posts on the Tactical Kydex mag holders. Mitchell has been making those for $16 a pair, including shipping. You can order a pair and cut off the clip per my instructions and you have an adjustable-tension holder for pocket carry -- can't beat the price. I wouldn't even think of putting a mag into one of those velcroed pouches. You need access with one hand while you're keeping an eye on the threat and using available cover -- not fumbling with the pouch. You can adjust the retention and practice getting the magazine free with one hand and your magazine will be protected in your pocket with all of the rounds where you left them.
Wynn:)

http://kahrtalk.com/holsters-gear/996-pix-new-tactical-kydex-mag-holders.html#post14370
I just started having a similar problem to the one described by Wyntrout with my PM9. My problem, however is with the 6 round mag. I am getting FTF's (nose diving) in the middle of a mag. All of a sudden, after firing a shot, the slide will be open and I notice that the round is jammed up against the feed ramp, in a nose dive position. I know that this problem has been discussed regarding the first round of a mag, but this just started happening in the middle of a mag. I have already put close to 1000 rounds through the gun and most of the time there were no problems. I have had several different barrels due to flaking, but this latest barrel seems fine. Not sure why it is jamming in the middle of a mag. If I tap (hard) on the back of the slide it will go into battery, but this shouldn't be happening. I had a couple of isolated situations with the 7 round mag, but the 6 had been perfect. Recently, I changed out the spring to the Wolff 5% stronger version. Strangely (but not necessarily related) the problem started after I put in the new/stronger spring. Yesterday, I went to the range I shot 150 rounds of Federal FMJ ammo without a problem. I decided to run a couple of mags of SD ammo (new Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1, 124 +P and had the first FTF in the middle of the first mag. Last night I cleaned the pistol thoroughly. I had previously polished the feed ramp (not that it need it), but I polished it again last night. Today, I went to the range with a couple of boxes of various SD ammo (Gold Dots, Federal) and had a FTF on just about every mag. I even changed out the barrel in the middle of my session (Kahr let me keep the last "flaking" barrel) and had the same issue with that barrel as well. This lends me to believe that the problem is not related to the barrel or feed ramp. The problem only occured on the 6 round mag, however. The 7 round mag didn't cause any jams. Could the stronger spring cause the problem? I put new Wolff springs on the 7 round mag as well, but it isn't currently having this problem. Again, I shot 150 rounds of FMJ without a problem before the problem started with SD Ammo. I can recreate the problem manually by riding the slide when racking a full 7 round mag (with one already in the chamber), but in racking through the entire mag, I can't make it happen, so it is even stranger that it is happing while shooting the pistol (where the recoil spring should be at full strength. How about "light strikes"? Could that cause this problem? Maybe with a light strike the slide isn't coming back very strongly (almost like riding the slide)? I am just throwing out theories.

Any thoughts? Jocko? Anyone? I may end up calling Kahr, but I am hoping (with someone's help) I can figure this out and avoid having to get Kahr involved.

[G26ster]

I'd shoot a bunch of the SD ammo ONLY out of the 7 rd mag for a test. If all goes well, the problem is the 6 rd mag and not the pistol. SD ammo is more prone to this type issues than FMJ.

[javaJoe]

Me too! With 5 or fewer rounds in the mag no problem - 100% first round feeds. I also get 100% feeds when the gun is pristine clean with a full mag. After about 21 rounds down range it sometime takes two tries. After initial try I'll sling the slide and it will go to batter

Any thoughts about switching to ProMag magazine. Saw a youtube that recommended them.

[mr surveyor]

I wouldn't use a ProMag in a beat up Jiminez JA9 (if they make them for that fine specimen)...actually I did try ProMag in an SKS that turned out to be junk, and have three 30 round ProMags (Beretta 92 style) for my CX4 Storm that don't even make good paper weights

sorry....not a ProMag fan


surv

[G26ster]

Another reason I suggested it is probably the magazine, is the issue I just had recently with my Wilson Combat 7 rd mag on a 1911 Compact. All my Wilson mags, and other mags, have functioned flawlessly, and this brand new one would not feed round number 5 - ever. If I cleared the round the remaining two fed fine. It did this 100% of the time. I called Wilson and they said "send it to us and we'll replace it."

So I still suggest you use only the mags that are trouble free with the SD ammo, to confirm your 6 rd mag is malfunctioning and not the PM9.

[deadhead1971]

XZH--sounds like a spring issue. I did not read all of the posts here, but have you replaced the guide rod spring yet? I saw where you replaced the mag spring.

[xzhync]

XZH--sounds like a spring issue. I did not read all of the posts here, but have you replaced the guide rod spring yet? I saw where you replaced the mag spring.

deadhead, yes, I changed the recoil spring as well. I put in a Wolff 20.5 pound spring (extra power). I put it in recently. I really can't imagine that it would be causing a problem...it should be stronger. I might try putting the old spring back in for a test. I am planning on going back to the range 1 more time (today/tomorrow) to test a few theories. I am going to shoot a bunch of SD ammo with the 7 round mag. As was suggested, if it works fine then I can more safely assume that there is a problem with the 6 round mag. I will also re-test the 6 round mag with the original spring to see if there is a difference. If all else fails, I'll call Kahr.

Thanks for the advice so far.

[xzhync]

deadhead, yes, I changed the recoil spring as well. I put in a Wolff 20.5 pound spring (extra power). I put it in recently. I really can't imagine that it would be causing a problem...it should be stronger. I might try putting the old spring back in for a test. I am planning on going back to the range 1 more time (today/tomorrow) to test a few theories. I am going to shoot a bunch of SD ammo with the 7 round mag. As was suggested, if it works fine then I can more safely assume that there is a problem with the 6 round mag. I will also re-test the 6 round mag with the original spring to see if there is a difference. If all else fails, I'll call Kahr.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Well I went to the range this afternoon with 50 rounds of SD Ammo (Winchester and Federal). My problem happened only once today and it was after the 3rd shot of the first mag (6 round mag). Again, the slide was back, but this time, I paid better attention and it turns out that the slide stop lever did engage the slide, so the slide was actually locked back. I kept thinking that the round was nose diving. Like I said, it happened only once and with the 6 round mag. I fired a number of rounds through the 7 round mag without any issue. It is not a nose dive problem. It is a slide stop problem, but it appears to be mag specific.

Jocko, if you see this post, please give me your thoughts. I am right handed, but I really don't think my thumb is engaging the slide stop. My thumb hardly reaches it and I checked my hand position and it was a good 1/2" below the lever. Again, it is only happening with the 6 round mag. Before I went today, I switched back to the original mag spring, so maybe that helped. I guess I should call Kahr. Maybe they can send me another 6 round mag to try.

[jocko]

the magazine should not be causing the pre mature slide stop issues. as only the follower can even engage that slide stop lever and that would only be after the last round.Take your slide off and reinstall the slide stop lever and then insert the problem magazne with the rounds that was causing your issues. See if by chance those rounds could be hitting that slide stop as the rounds are being pushed up within the magazine. If your thumb is not doing it and ur sure of that, then it has to be a bad slide stop lever causing it. Nothing moves that slide stop but the follower, but rounds hitting it will engage the slide stop lever, sometimes, maybe not all the times as they may be getting by OK out of one magazine and not out of the other. another magazine might solve that issue also,but check it out yourself. I doubt if it is the magazine springs either.

Check this stuff out and if it is OK then I would give kahr a call and ask them if they will send you anothe magazine (6 round) and you will send yours back to them. But all that beng said if the slide is locking open midway between either magazine, then IMO it can't be the magazine doing it,has to be thmb or rounds hitting the slide stop . The specs on the slide stop could indeed be off just a tad to be cuaing it.

If the rounds are hitting call kahr and ask for IAN and tell him what is going on and he will send you a new slide stop, in the mean time if he does that, just take a small file and look where those rounds are touching that lever on the insdie and just file and smooth that area off a tad. Your not gonna remove enough to see, once the rounds clear, stop. polish and retest... with a new slide stop on the way, u have nothing to loose in experimenting..

I had 3 slide stops replaced on my Para carry 9 before it worked like it should..

PM sent also.