CW45 flush mag problem. Need help

[Deano]

I bought 3 of the mec gar 6 round mags to modify for the CW45. I've done all the grinding and the mag locks in place flush. Looks great. I put the kahr spring and follower in it. The slide locks back on an empty mag. However, when I load it up and try to hand cycle the rounds, about half the time, the slide won't go all the way back. It stops about 1/2 to 2/3 the way back and won't budge. It's a metal on metal type thing, but I can't see anything hitting the slide. I'm not about to go shoot the gun until I can figure out what the problem is.

With the slide open I can see the feed lip of the mag well below the slide. Any thoughts on why it's doing this, or what might be stopping the slide from going all the way back?

[jocko]

does it do it wit kahr magazines???

[Deano]

No, the kahr magazines do not do this.

[Bawanna]

When you say load it up, you mean loaded with rounds or empty mag inserted?

I'd take the spring and follower out of the mag tube and insert that and see if it hangs up. If it's a metal to metal solid lock up it almost has to be the tube, feed lips, etc.

Compare the Kahr mag to your Mec Gars and see if the feed lip profile is similar.

Greg has had good success with this stuff, hopefully he'll be along shortly with some intelligent (always) insight for you.

[Deano]

When you say load it up, you mean loaded with rounds or empty mag inserted?

I'd take the spring and follower out of the mag tube and insert that and see if it hangs up. If it's a metal to metal solid lock up it almost has to be the tube, feed lips, etc.

Compare the Kahr mag to your Mec Gars and see if the feed lip profile is similar.

Greg has had good success with this stuff, hopefully he'll be along shortly with some intelligent (always) insight for you.
The slide only hangs up when there's rounds loaded in the magazine, and then it's only about half the time. Seems to be worse with a full mag. With an empty mag, the slide goes all the way back and locks, but I can't get the slide to release without taking the mag out.

As far as the mag shape, I cut the mags so the profile is near identical to the kahr ones. The feed lips on the kahr are longer, so you can't get them identical.

[Deano]

I'm noticing now that the rounds in the mag seem to be a bit more nose up than they should be. Is it possible that the nose of the next round is pushing up on the round being ejected and causing the tail to dip and impact the ejector pin?

[gb6491]

Deano,
How does the Mec-Gar mag work with it's own follower and spring?
I just put a Kahr follower and spring in one of my Mec-Gars and could not duplicate your problem.
However, I have seen the issue when trying magazines with "Devel" style followers. I've also noticed it happens with some ammo, but does not with other ammo and it only happens when hand cycling the action as all the rounds will chamber/fire/extract/eject without issue. When the "issue" (slide not going back fully) occurs, I believe that it's because the rim of the cartridge being extracted is catching on the case lip of the top round in the magazine. My theory is this happens with the "Devel" style follower, because it's binding in the tube just enough to prevent the top round in the magazine moving enough for the rim of the extracted cartridge to clear it. I don't think this is an issue when actually firing the gun, because of the violence of the extraction cycle bounces everything around enough that the rim can't catch on a case lip (or the "Devel" style follower itself). That you are having this issue with a Kahr follower suggest to me that it either the mag tube or the Kahr follower is a little dirty/gummy. Then again there could be something (burr, sharp edge) on the Kahr follower or the mag tube (did you file the latch window) that is causing a slight bind. Also check that Kahr spring is getting fully into position on the Kahr follower. What I've found is if the top round on a full magazine is "springy" when you depress and release it's nose it's less likely to have hand feeding issue than a magazine where the top round reacts sluggishly to the same action.
Regards,
Greg

[Deano]

Greg, thanks for the response. When I put the mec-gar follower in, the slide doesn't lock back when empty. Interestingly enough, just for the heck of it, I put the mec-gar follower and spring in the kahr magazine and it cycles fine, and locks back the slide. When I have the mec-gar follower in the mec-gar mag the nose of the follower seems to be riding a little high. When I put in the empty mag and pull the slide back, the follower catch is already above the slide lock lever pin, so it doesn't lock back. I've got a couple more mec-gar mags to fool with. I'm going to try grinding a little less off the top and see if I can't keep the nose of the follower to stop riding so high. The feed lips on the mec-gar are shorter than the kahr lips, so I wonder if that's the problem I'm having. I did grind the latch window to try to match the kahr mag as closely as possible.

When the mag is fully loaded, it is not springy as you suggest. It's very tight with either follower in it. It is good to hear you think it will fire fine, and not catch while actually firing the pistol. I'll keep futzing and try it the next time I go to the range. I just needed a little re-assurance that I'm not going to break something if I fire it this way.

[Deano]

Deano, ...Also check that Kahr spring is getting fully into position on the Kahr follower. What I've found is if the top round on a full magazine is "springy" when you depress and release it's nose it's less likely to have hand feeding issue than a magazine where the top round reacts sluggishly to the same action.
Regards,
Greg
Greg, happy to report that your tips were right on. The main issue was indeed the spring not fully engaging the follower. Also needed a small amount of grinding of the mag release hole to allow the mag to ride just a bit lower. Polished the followers and sanded down the inside of the mags with some 600 grit paper. I now have three flush fit mags that I can hand cylcle 6 rounds and the slide locks back when empty, using the stock mec-gar spring and follower. As you said, once you get the spring seated correctly inside, the follower is nice and springy. Thanks for your help!

[wyntrout]

Before I got tired of trying different mags and couldn't keep up with which mag did what, most of the 7-10 different magazines I tried would lock back on empty magazines in hand racking, but none would do that during live fire, at least not consistently.
Kahr's tiny springs and tall followers didn't seem to work well in regular 1911 tubes. The smaller front to back Kahr springs don't help with the stability of other followers and the low cut on the front of Kahr tubes doesn't work with most followers because the the front skirt on other followers is too short. Each follower needs to be used with the spring designed for it, giving enough lift and stability, especially to the front. And others have shown that bending the front blade of metal followers down a bit to match the Kahr follower profile can help with feeding, but the lips of the magazine need to be trimmed so that they don't hit the bottom of the slide or the ejector.

I may tinker with those things again some day, but I just got too discouraged. My main goal was to get a 1911 6-round mag for CCW, using an officer's model magazine and a higher capacity spring/follower kit to give it 7 rounds with just about the same protrusion at the grip of the regular Kahr 5-round magazine..
Wynn:)

[Deano]

Before I got tired of trying different mags and couldn't keep up with which mag did what, most of the 7-10 different magazines I tried would lock back on empty magazines in hand racking, but none would do that during live fire, at least not consistently.
Kahr's tiny springs and tall followers didn't seem to work well in regular 1911 tubes. The smaller front to back Kahr springs don't help with the stability of other followers and the low cut on the front of Kahr tubes doesn't work with most followers because the the front skirt on other followers is too short. Each follower needs to be used with the spring designed for it, giving enough lift and stability, especially to the front. And others have shown that bending the front blade of metal followers down a bit to match the Kahr follower profile can help with feeding, but the lips of the magazine need to be trimmed so that they don't hit the bottom of the slide or the ejector.

I may tinker with those things again some day, but I just got too discouraged. My main goal was to get a 1911 6-round mag for CCW, using an officer's model magazine and a higher capacity spring/follower kit to give it 7 rounds with just about the same protrusion at the grip of the regular Kahr 5-round magazine..
Wynn:)I would agree. I messed around with switching followers and springs, but I ended up putting them all back where they belong. Next range trip, I'll test your theory that they lock back with hand cycling but not with firing. I'm just after a couple of reliable mags for back-up. Lock back on empty would be nice, but not essential.

Your post reminded me that I bought a couple of the wilson combat spring follower kits. I'm going to check those out as well. Doubt seriously I'll ever get 7 rounds in those officers mags.

[gb6491]

Hmm, I've not had a problem with Kahr followers and springs in the Metalform Officer's/Compact magazine tubes I have. I continue to use the first one I modified (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3317) this way as the primary carry magazine for my CW45 and I've several others with Kahr internals that I carry for spares. FWIW, these mags reliably lock the slide back after the last round is fired. I can say the same for my modified Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazines (MGCO4506) except that they use the follower and spring that came in them from Mec-Gar.
Regards,
Greg

[Deano]

Hmm, I've not had a problem with Kahr followers and springs in the Metalform Officer's/Compact magazine tubes I have. I continue to use the first one I modified (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3317) this way as the primary carry magazine for my CW45 and I've several others with Kahr internals that I carry for spares. FWIW, these mags reliably lock the slide back after the last round is fired. I can say the same for my modified Mec-Gar 6rd. Officer's magazines (MGCO4506) except that they use the follower and spring that came in them from Mec-Gar.
Regards,
GregYes Greg, the ones I have are mec-gar and when I hand cycle them, the slide does lock back on empty, no matter which spring and follower I use. I would think it would also when firing, but have not tested yet.

[gb6491]

Hey Deano,
Thanks for the update you posted earlier.
In regards to my previous post, I was pretty much addressing Wynn's post, so sorry for the confusion (I should have quoted him). If your not worried about the slide locking back on your spares, you should be able to increase the capacity to seven rounds and still have it feed reliably. The Metalform mags I have would do so (feed seven reliably), but would not lock the slide back with their original follower and spring.
Regards,
Greg

[Deano]

Happy to report that all 3 mags fired flawlessly with both FMJ and HP rounds today. Two of the three locked back the slide after the last round. The third one didn't. Have not figured that out yet, but overall, I'm very pleased with these mags. Thanks Greg for the original post and continued help getting them to run smoothly.