Deciding on cant for PJ holster

[Allen]

I asked this at the end of a previous thread but got no responses. Needing a new PJ holster for my first Kahr (CM9) and need to know how to figure how much cant would be comfortable for me. Probably will use an IWB non-tuckable over the belt clip type at about 4-4:30 position. Even after placing the gun in the back side of my jeans to where it is riding comfortable how do I figure how much cant I may have on the gun. I read about FBI, and up to 25 degree cants but have no idea how much any of that would be.

Appreciate any suggestions on how to do this. Don't want to have to bother the company by sending the holster back for a cant adjustment if I can get it right the first time. Thank Guys.

[Bawanna]

Cant is kind of a personal individual thing with no good answer that fits everybody. I'm a straight up guy myself, I prefer no or very little cant.

This gives me a little more leeway as to where I position it depending on the day or the wardrobe. You can even go cross draw if the need arises.

To me with too much cant you almost have to lean forward into a crouch to get the hand grip angle.

I'd suggest (with an empty gun of course) just tucking the gun inside your belt/pants where it's comfy and where it seems like the best position to grab for it.

Then stand in front of a mirror and you can see how close or far from straight up your are. A few degrees isn't gonna be a deal breaker, theres some leeway in the belt loop.

Some like the gun to ride very low in the pant with the grip at or even below the belt line, I prefer it a little higher.

Paul is semi magical I think in that he can somehow tell what's right. I was skeptical but when mine arrived (for a 1911) it was just about exactly the way I would have made it myself if of course I had his talent.

[chrish]

I agree with Bawana about straight up being the preference. For me it allows the easiest draw vs canting that requires somewhat of an awkward wrist position when drawing. But, the big but...the position of carry vs the grip sticking out. I like to carry iwb at 330-400, at that position, no cant, my p9 grip sticks out too far. So ultimately i carry with a holster that cants around 15 deg. The cant allows the grip to be more length-wise and closer to the body. He shorter the grip, the less cant needed to keep the grip from sticking out. Having a CM, you might be fine with no cant and you might want a little for comfort.

As he said, you'll just have to try a few positions and cant to really determine what works best for you.

[Tinman507]

Admittedly these aren't PJ Holsters but they may give you an idea on the effect of Cant.

The longer the grip the more effect cant has on concealability. You do give up some grip purchase but it is managable. I prefer the FBI but I wouldn't mind trying 20 degrees. The grip lays up alongside my body and does not stick out shouting "gun in waistband"

http://www.odspec.com/BT/injection_paddle.jpg

[Wisewolfhowling]

I just emailed Paul at pj holsters yesterday and was asking his opinion on the very same thing. He replied back saying 15 to 20 degrees seems to be as good as you can get. So taking his advise I ordered one of his holsters for my cw45. Will let you know how it works out when I get it. I would say like others told me if you have questions email Paul and ask. He was prompt on getting back with me both times I emailed.

[340pd]

I am sure you can adjust the cant slightly with a heat source. Paul at PJ can give you that information.

[OldLincoln]

If seated I agree with the straight up draw as that's about seems like the natural way your arm moves. Standing is another story for me anyway - think the movie western draw.

I'm in a hurry to get it on target so I tend to drag my guns forward as I draw. For me the more cant the better, especially with the 1911 which tries to hang up if pulled to shallow. I'm carrying it lately and am thinking about tinkering with the holster to angle it more. It would also conceal that tall grip better.

[Bawanna]

If seated I agree with the straight up draw as that's about seems like the natural way your arm moves. Standing is another story for me anyway - think the movie western draw.

I'm in a hurry to get it on target so I tend to drag my guns forward as I draw. For me the more cant the better, especially with the 1911 which tries to hang up if pulled to shallow. I'm carrying it lately and am thinking about tinkering with the holster to angle it more. It would also conceal that tall grip better.

On my owb holsters I have the front cut down so the muzzle will clear faster if you do the forward drag.
Obviously you can't do that with an iwb rig since you have to clear the pants and belt.
Since I never stand I'm no authority on that although I'd love to give that a try sometime.

One thing I think we all lose sight of is the gun rides around in the holster on your hip a whole lot more than it gets quick drawed BUT we still need to have it properly situated for when the need arises.
Comfort is important or you'll leave it behind, accessibility in a relatively fast and pre-programed method is job 1.

[Allen]

About how many degrees would you say the FBI cant would be? Then would 20 degrees be just a tad bit more tilt or maybe double that amount? If I could figure out how to use a protractor back behind me maybe I could answer my own question. I've stuck the gun in my waistband at about 4:00-4:30 and I think I'm going to like somewhat of a tilt but just not sure how much.

Appreciate all the excellent responses.

[Bawanna]

Try putting the gun in your waist band and take a picture best you can in a mirror. Post the picture and I'll bet a carpenter or an engineer here will guess pretty close what the can't is.

You could put a ruler along the top of the slide sticking up to improve the image.

[JFootin]

I am pretty sure the FBI cant is about 15°. For wearing just behind the hip, that much or even 20° would not be too much cant. I find I need the cant whether I am standing or sitting.

[Bootlegger]

I went from a 20° fixed to a crossbreed adjustable,
Tried straight for 2 days an hated it. I don't know how much
One hole is but its less than 20 an I love it there.

Just my personal opinion.

[Allen]

Try putting the gun in your waist band and take a picture best you can in a mirror. Post the picture and I'll bet a carpenter or an engineer here will guess pretty close what the can't is.

You could put a ruler along the top of the slide sticking up to improve the image.

Oh Bawanna, how I wish I could do just that. First off I don't have a digital camera where I could connect to my computer, and second, even if I did have one all this high technology has left me in the dust and I probably couldn't even do it with the proper equipment. I feel lucky to even be able to get on the Forum and ask these questions. You know, can't teach an old dog new tricks, and this is definitely an old dog here.

Appreciate all the help. It sounds like anywhere in the 15-20 degree cant will do the job for me. I'll have to wait a while for my right hip replacement to get better before I stick something on it even as light as the CM9 is. See what the Doc says at my next checkup in two weeks.

[Bawanna]

Oh Bawanna, how I wish I could do just that. First off I don't have a digital camera where I could connect to my computer, and second, even if I did have one all this high technology has left me in the dust and I probably couldn't even do it with the proper equipment. I feel lucky to even be able to get on the Forum and ask these questions. You know, can't teach an old dog new tricks, and this is definitely an old dog here.

Appreciate all the help. It sounds like anywhere in the 15-20 degree cant will do the job for me. I'll have to wait a while for my right hip replacement to get better before I stick something on it even as light as the CM9 is. See what the Doc says at my next checkup in two weeks.

That's what they said and continue to say about me. The word old dog, new tricks and bawanna are frequently used in the same sentence.

If you had hip replacement I would suggest going OWB. I got something going on with my right hip, undiagnosed at this point, like the joints full of rust, lay down and it sometimes just don't want to straighten out. Don't know weather to inject TW25 or blow it out with non clorinated brake cleaner, don't want to damage my delicate finish........
I'm gonna use my Mernickle for awhile and see if my IWB are contributing to my discomfort, pressure or something.

[Allen]

Little off subject Bawanna, but my hip was diagnosed as arthritic deteroation and it would sometimes pop or crack if I moved the right leg in a certain position. Just bone against bone. Now with the new one I started to ask the surgeon if he was going to leave a spot open that I could spray the new joint once in a while with silocone or WD-40 but thought he might not have a sense of humor and didn't ask.
Maybe I'd better re-think the IWB position since I've just now (after about 12 weeks) able to sleep on my right side for a while but it seems the IWB is more concealable
Hope you find what's wrong and if a new joint will fix you up like new.

[Bawanna]

Little off subject Bawanna, but my hip was diagnosed as arthritic deteroation and it would sometimes pop or crack if I moved the right leg in a certain position. Just bone against bone. Now with the new one I started to ask the surgeon if he was going to leave a spot open that I could spray the new joint once in a while with silocone or WD-40 but thought he might not have a sense of humor and didn't ask.
Maybe I'd better re-think the IWB position since I've just now (after about 12 weeks) able to sleep on my right side for a while but it seems the IWB is more concealable
Hope you find what's wrong and if a new joint will fix you up like new.

I always put Dr stuff off as long as possible, they rank right up there with bottom feeding ambulance chasers but you reach a point where you gotta play the game. I guess I shouldn't peg them that low, they have fixed a couple major issues on me over the years. My hip don't bother me at all sitting (I do that full time) and I haven't used it for much in 17 years. Only time it bites me is laying down and changing clothes, course now there's a pain since I'm thinking about it. Might be a muscle or nerve issue I guess since it seems to ease some as it's relaxed. Better in the morning than at night.
I'll ask the saw bones about the silicone and WD40 when I have to go, I love asking good questions like that.
My mom has had both hips replaced and seems to get along ok. Maybe a grease fitting would be enough in my case to avoid the intrusive knifes, chain saws and other tools of pain infliction..............

[bonjorno2]

fbi cant is the best for me... i think it's 15

[JFootin]

The sweet spot where I carry my CM9 in the PJ holster is at about 8:30 (lefty). That corresponds to 3:30 for righties. There is no contact with the hip joint at that location. So I don't think there will be a problem. If there is, just place it at 4:00 for a while. IMO, an OWB holster at 3:00 is still going to be uncomfortable on a sore hip joint.

[Allen]

I'll start wearing it in my waist band at home for a while in different positions and see how it feels before ordering a holster.

Thanks for all the responses, guess we'd better quit now, other Posters are probably getting bored with my simple problem.

And Bawanna, if you do eventually need a hip replacement be sure to look into a surgeon who does the Anterior Approach (all cutting is done down the front side of the hip not damaging any muscles and tendons and recovery is supposed to be faster which I'll find out if that's really the case) versus the Posterior Approach which cuts through from the back side of the hip going through muscle tissue that has to re-grow itself and you end up sitting on the incesion. There's lots of good reading on the Internet concerning both ways of doing the replacement.