CW9 - Is this atypical barrel wear?

[CharlieAbleKilo]

So, I have had my cw9 since last October, and run about 200 rounds of fmj and a handful of jhp's through it, and just recently noticed some wear that doesn't look quite right.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_wfcs_QXHc40/S4Z6dtL8zCI/AAAAAAAAMus/Sp64QEutUWY/s288/2010-02-23%2023.02.04.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wfcs_QXHc40/S4Z7C1YUp4I/AAAAAAAAMvE/8AZYgo4oMwY/s288/2010-02-23%2023.02.15.jpg

I remember reading somewhere that kahr's barrels are nickle plated, and it almost looks like that nickle plating is wearing/flaking off the barrel. Is this normal? Or should I go about contacting Kahr?

Thanks all! - CK

[ripley16]

Welcome to the forum. Good question.

To me it looks like normal wear created by the slide and barrel rubbing together, especially in the first picture. Most pistols will get some barrel hood wear very similar to that.

[jfrey]

Mine is doing the same thing. It is where the barrel is contacting the slide when it retracts. I don't think it is anything to worry about. I had the same issue on my Glock 36.
The plating on and inside my barrel is flaking but Ian told me it was cosmetic and go ahead and shoot it if I wanted to or they would replace it. I elected to shoot it and no problems so far. As long as it doesn't flake on the feed ramp I'm not going to worry about it.

[CharlieAbleKilo]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm glad to hear this is normal. It just looked like a lot of wear after only 200 rounds. My Dad has a p9, and that has a dull finish on the barrel, and doesn't appear to be nickle plated, it's just unpolished stainless steel. The wear on that is much less noticeable after twice as many rounds.

I wish kahr had gone that route with the cw9, standard rifling in an unplated stainless barrel.

- CK

[ripley16]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm glad to hear this is normal. It just looked like a lot of wear after only 200 rounds. My Dad has a p9, and that has a dull finish on the barrel, and doesn't appear to be nickle plated, it's just unpolished stainless steel. The wear on that is much less noticeable after twice as many rounds.

I wish kahr had gone that route with the cw9, standard rifling in an unplated stainless barrel.

- CK

I have to admit that I've never read anything that said the barrels were nickle plated, nor stainless. Can anyone cite a source? :confused:

The only real effect your rifling has on the bullet, Versus the usual polygonal barrel, is a bit lower velocity. Accuracy and reliability should be the same.

[jocko]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm glad to hear this is normal. It just looked like a lot of wear after only 200 rounds. My Dad has a p9, and that has a dull finish on the barrel, and doesn't appear to be nickle plated, it's just unpolished stainless steel. The wear on that is much less noticeable after twice as many rounds.

I wish kahr had gone that route with the cw9, standard rifling in an unplated stainless barrel.

- CK

like normal wear. kahr for some reason puts some type of a coating over the outter nickel part of the barrel and to me it looks like that coating is wearing off due to metal to metal contact. which would be normal. If it was peening there or rolling back metal, that would be a bad barrel/slide.

I do tyink as the members stated it is OK. My kahr barrel had that dull coating on it and Ijust took my dremel and polished the entire outter barrel completley. It now shines, never reusts as the nickel plaing is very very corrorision reistant . Your barrel is not stainless but a high proprietary steel used by Lothar in makng their barrel. The nickel plating is a real plus to the barrel IMO.

but that being said ndeed keep an eye onit.

[ripley16]

Jocko, if the barrel is made from a secret, "proprietary" formula, why do you say it isn't stainless? If they won't say what it is, how can you say what it isn't? HK also uses a "proprietary" for their guns and tools. This isn't all that uncommon. It seems to me Kahr used to advertise "Stainless Barrels".

Nickle plating is very unusual for barrels, I can't think of a single other gun maker that does this. Where do you get the information that the barrels are nickled? I've looked all over the Kahr web site and can't find this stated anywhere.

[jocko]

Jocko, if the barrel is made from a secret, "proprietary" formula, why do you say it isn't stainless? If they won't say what it is, how can you say what it isn't? HK also uses a "proprietary" for their guns and tools. This isn't all that uncommon. It seems to me Kahr used to advertise "Stainless Barrels".

Nickle plating is very unusual for barrels, I can't think of a single other gun maker that does this. Where do you get the information that the barrels are nickled? I've looked all over the Kahr web site and can't find this stated anywhere.

military beretta 9mm barrel is nickel plated. Bores of all our our Military M4 are nickel plated. I woud assume that if the barrel was of a stainless steel as we know it, that lothar would have stated that, They do not, I can only go with what they state and what kahr has stated to me.

Kahr has nickle plated their barrels since day one, seems you want to argue, so why not call kahr yourself and ask them as u seem to want to doubt what I have stated. You might call Beretta to ,,, to confirm what I stated about their M9. and maybe our military people whileyour at it to check on the barrels of their M4 rifles. I do not know of what other companies do their barrels, nor do I care in that sense of the word also..

Lothar makes all of kahrs barrels and in their material they call their barrels propritary steel. What that means I cannot tell you. It may well mean stainless to. I don't know that and neither do you, so I am just passing on the materail that Lothar publishs. I wold think they wold callit something like proprietary stainless steel barrles, for there are different kinds of stainless as we well know.

Check it out yourself, certainly don't take my word for it, as u have chosen not to... No were in my first message was the word "secret" used by ME. U sneeked that word in there not I..

googled this up:
he Kahr barrel begins its transformation from a solid round billet of high tensile strength proprietary steel, 3 inches in diameter and 30 inches long. In the temperature-controlled environment of the Lothar Walther factory, the barrel stock is gun drilled and rifled to match grade tolerances.

At the Kahr factory, the barrel stock is precisely cut to length and CNC machined. Nearly 75% of the solid steel billet is machined away to produce a single Kahr barrel. This intensive production method, providing the greatest material integrity and tightest tolerances, was chosen to assure the best quality barrel possible.

[jfrey]

In an email I got from Ian, he said the barrel was Chrome plated. Many shotgun and rifle barrels are plated in such a way. The original M-16's were not and that lead to a lot of problems until they fixed it. It would seem to me that chrome plating the barrels on the CW series would keep Kahr from having to do a lot of polishing and thus reduce the overall expense. That's just my idea and jocko may be able to shed more light on this. There is an extensive thread here on the plating coming off some CW and PM series barrels.

As to the area on your barrel that looks unusual, it is just the slide rubbing on it when the slide unlocks.

[Bawanna]

Don't you two make me come down there!:7:

I think I already know the answer but when you say nickel your meaning the same as Chrome. I know AR barrels are chrome lined. At least thats what they said are armorer school but nickel and chrome can mean the same thing?
It's been a few years but at Beretta school they said the same thing but used the word chrome lined again.

Am I thinking right or do I need to get back on the short bus?:confused:

[jocko]

In an email I got from Ian, he said the barrel was Chrome plated. Many shotgun and rifle barrels are plated in such a way. The original M-16's were not and that lead to a lot of problems until they fixed it. It would seem to me that chrome plating the barrels on the CW series would keep Kahr from having to do a lot of polishing and thus reduce the overall expense. That's just my idea and jocko may be able to shed more light on this. There is an extensive thread here on the plating coming off some CW and PM series barrels.

As to the area on your barrel that looks unusual, it is just the slide rubbing on it when the slide unlocks.

there is a difference. I found this on google.

Electroless Krome is not real chrome plating. It is an electroless nickel with a bluish tint--at least it should be. Copy Chrome is basically nickel plating with a cobalt adder to give it the blue tint. I'm not sure what adder is used with Electroless Krome.

There are many differences between electrolytic nickel and electroless nickel. In the plating industry, electrolytic nickel is often preferred for cosmetic parts intended to have a brilliant polished finish. Modern brighteners and levelers do wonders to enhance the results you get with electrolytic nickel. Electroless nickel is a workhorse finish that is often used on complex shapes with inside areas that are beyond the "throw" of electrolytic nickel. An example is a gun barrel, where you just can't get electrolytic nickel to throw. Electroless nickel will plate an inside barrel without any trouble.

The literature has it that electroless nickel can give results harder and more durable than electrolytic nickel. Some claim the hardness can compete with the hardness of real chrome plating. That is possible, but it will depend on the formulation and post heat treating processes as well.

A triple chrome cosmetic finish will offer the best of all worlds for cosmetic applications--excellent corrosion resistance and resistance to wear. Hard chrome plating alone is often used to enhance the mechanical wear resistance of gears, bearings, etc.

Triple chrome is so named because it involves three separate processes:

Copper plate
Nickel plate
Chromium plate

If you stop after the nickel plate, you can have a nice, durable finish but it will have a nickel cast, which has a silvery yellowish cast. This is where most of the appearance of chrome plating comes from....except the bluish cast. The chrome step will give it a bluish cast. Of course, the chrome finish will give more wear resistance and durability, too.

Often a flash copper is used first over steel, then an acid copper is sometimes used to provide build. Over brass, you can use acid copper for build if it is necessary without the flash copper. Remember that the copper step is usually needed if you are working towards a bright polished finish--or if you are working with metals such as pot metal that cannot tolerate the nickel plate directly applied. In this case flash copper is the only option. The reason for the copper: It is super easy to polish to a bright luster, and it can be sanded, soldered, and repaired easily for restoration purposes.

For your parts, I'm not sure you're looking for a dazzling brilliant finish. You're looking for a matte finish. The electroless process should work well for you. But it won't look exactly the same as a triple chrome finish. Either way, you shouldn't really need to copper plate your parts; I recall you said they were brass.

Ken

another google:

Chromium and nickel are two different elements, so they have somewhat different properties.

Conventional electrolytic nickel plating is decorative, functional, and corrosion resistant but it tarnishes and it is not as hard as chromium.

Electroless nickel plating (actually autocatalytic nickel plating) is a glassy nickel-phosphorous coating that is very corrosion resistant and quite hard, and often used on rough-service applications like down-hole applications.

Chrome plating may be either a thick layer of chrome (generally known as hard chrome) that offers exceptional hardness,wear-resistance, and oil-holding capability, but limited corrosion resistance; or it may be nickel

[jocko]

Jocko, if the barrel is made from a secret, "proprietary" formula, why do you say it isn't stainless? If they won't say what it is, how can you say what it isn't? HK also uses a "proprietary" for their guns and tools. This isn't all that uncommon. It seems to me Kahr used to advertise "Stainless Barrels".

Nickle plating is very unusual for barrels, I can't think of a single other gun maker that does this. Where do you get the information that the barrels are nickled? I've looked all over the Kahr web site and can't find this stated anywhere.

buddy, PM sent. hope this clears some things up better..

[recoilguy]

Jumping back to the original subject, as mentioned by a previous poster, as long as it is not peening it is not harmful, but still doesn't look real nice. As a matter of fact it is very not nice looking to me. If it were a recoilguy brand weapon I would not want my product to look like that.

As to the Barrels I am looking at an article in "On Target" magazine by Ben Battles called Inside Kahr that says...."except for the entry level CW series all Kahr barrels are made from match grade, Lothar Walther barrel blanks, percision button rifleed in Germany." It does not however say what CW barrels are made from but they are magnetic. The more nickle the less magnetic (generalized) the steel. Which leads me to conclude they are not stainless.

I did polish mine and it is very nice and shinny.

RCG

[ripley16]

buddy, PM sent. hope this clears some things up better..

Thanks for taking the time, I appreciate it, PM read and replied, :D, however I remain skeptical. :confused:

[ripley16]

As to the Barrels I am looking at an article in "On Target" magazine by Ben Battles called Inside Kahr that says...."except for the entry level CW series all Kahr barrels are made from match grade, Lothar Walther barrel blanks, percision button rifleed in Germany." It does not however say what CW barrels are made from but they are magnetic. The more nickle the less magnetic (generalized) the steel. Which leads me to conclude they are not stainless.



RCG

Both my Kahr slides and Kahr barrels are magnetic, as is most stainless steel. I even just checked a HK stainless slide which is also magnetic. :confused:

Magnetism does not indicate stainless or not.

[jocko]

Both my Kahr slides and Kahr barrels are magnetic, as is most stainless steel. I even just checked a HK stainless slide which is also magnetic. :confused:

does not nickel plate kahrs barrels. that is a vendor related happening after all the maching process is done to the lothar blanks. Your cw barrels are of the same steel as the poygonal rifled barrels are. I would think about any steel would be magnetic be it stainless or high grade steel.


CORRECTION; Kahr CW barrels are not made by LOTHAR, Only the polygonal barrels are made by LOTHAR for kahr. Sorry if I confused anyone here, as I was under the impression that Lothar made ALL of kahrs barrels and they do not. Course if anyone has efver shot a CW gun, they also know their barrels are one holer barrels also, just made by someone else...

[recoilguy]

does not nickel plate kahrs barrels. that is a vendor related happening after all the maching process is done to the lothar blanks. Your cw barrels are of the same steel as the poygonal rifled barrels are. I would think about any steel would be magnetic be it stainless or high grade steel.


CORRECTION; Kahr CW barrels are not made by LOTHAR, Only the polygonal barrels are made by LOTHAR for kahr. Sorry if I confused anyone here, as I was under the impression that Lothar made ALL of kahrs barrels and they do not. Course if anyone has efver shot a CW gun, they also know their barrels are one holer barrels also, just made by someone else...

I was pretty sure the CW barrels were not made by Lothar, I did not mean to imply they were not a fine quality piece. I own and am very pleased with my CW. Thank you for verifying my thoughts.

As for magnetic degrees of Stainless. Stainless is at times magnetic however it will not always respond to a magnet.

A basic type of stainless steel has a “ferritic” structure, formed by adding chromium to the melt, it can then or also be hardened by adding carbon to the recipe. The most common stainless steels are '”ustenitic” these recipes have a greater chromium presence. Nickel is often added to many stainless alloys for many reasons. Nickel modifies the physical structure of steel and makes it non-magnetic. The magnetic properties of stainless steel are deternined by the elements added to the alloy, specifically the addition of nickel can change the structure of the steel from magnetic to non-magnetic.

I realize that has nothing to do with the CW barrel but steel is what I do so when I have a chance to talk about it to those other then my employees and customers I take the opportunity. I apologize.

RCG

[wyntrout]

When you're looking for screws to use around boat compasses, you take a magnet with you because that stuff really varies. One of my last batches of Kahr magazines was on the table with a bunch of other stuff and paper clips were sticking to the magazine! I couldn't imagine that being a good thing, so I used my audio/video tape degausser to demagnetize it. That thing really comes in handy.
Wynn:)

[Vincent]

I was pretty sure the CW barrels were not made by Lothar, I did not mean to imply they were not a fine quality piece. I own and am very pleased with my CW. Thank you for verifying my thoughts.

As for magnetic degrees of Stainless. Stainless is at times magnetic however it will not always respond to a magnet.

A basic type of stainless steel has a “ferritic” structure, formed by adding chromium to the melt, it can then or also be hardened by adding carbon to the recipe. The most common stainless steels are '”ustenitic” these recipes have a greater chromium presence. Nickel is often added to many stainless alloys for many reasons. Nickel modifies the physical structure of steel and makes it non-magnetic. The magnetic properties of stainless steel are deternined by the elements added to the alloy, specifically the addition of nickel can change the structure of the steel from magnetic to non-magnetic.

I realize that has nothing to do with the CW barrel but steel is what I do so when I have a chance to talk about it to those other then my employees and customers I take the opportunity. I apologize.

RCG

I worked in an aerospace investment casting company for a couple years and it is good to hear this stuff again. If I remember my stuff correctly some of the "super alloy" stainless steel has little or no iron in it at all even though the basic definition of "steel" is that it is an alloy of iron. Inconel and or Stellite might be two like this is that correct?

[recoilguy]

Wow that is not your run of the mill steel alloys. Stellite is a completely non magnetic alloy. Inconel is magnetic in some alloy types but not most, I think. Stellite is a hard tool type of steel Iconel is a high temp resistant type if I am correct. All the trade names and alloys are hard to keep straight when not used consistantly.

RCG

[jocko]

ok, listen up:

I dropped Lothar/Walther an emails and ask about their kahr barrels. Here is theie reply.

THE BARREL WE MAKE FOR KAHR ARE PRODUCED FROM LW19 STEEL. iT IS SIMILAR TO ANSI 4140 BUT THERE ARE SOME MINUTE DIFFERENCES IN THAT IT IS DESIGNED TO BE "CLEAN" AND HAVE A BETTER GRAIN AND GIVE MORE DURABILITY."

got this from Lothar also.

Barrel Materials
The materials used at Lothar Walther fall into two categories. The normal steel barrels, those which require bluing are made from LW19, a chrome-molybdenum type steel. The stainless steels, which do not require bluing are LW6, which is used mainly for .22l.r. and similar cartridges and LW50 which is used for centerfire cartridges. This last material was developed in 1994-95 as a safe alternative to 416R and to solve durability problems associated with 416R. LW50 can be used in all calibers and all contours.

How LOTHAR WALTHER Barrels are made
All our gun barrels are button rifled. Because of this technology we intensify the strength only at the attrition area from land and groove.
The rest of the material is in the original strength, through this best attitude against vibration.

So I would assume that another reason kahr nickel plates their lothar barrels are that they are NO STAINLESS and nickel is very corrosion proof and extremely duralble for wear also.