Used PM9 - Ballistol cleaning

[johnnyaxxe]

Hey all - new Kahr owner here, thanks for all of the posts - they have been helpful in not only choosing the PM9 but also cleaning, maintenance, etc!

So i found a really good deal on a used PM9 at a local gun shop, was really looking to buy the CM9 as i didnt want to shell out the big(ger) bucks, but I ended up getting this PM9 for about the same price. It reeked of old oil, and needed a good cleaning, but was in great shape - frame and slide were practically flawless. I was able to shoot it before I bought it - although being dirty it cycled a mag of hand loads without a problem, so I now own it. Also the store owner agreed to take it back within 30 days if i had any issues with it, that sealed the deal.

Last weekend I put about 250 rounds through it, only one FTE - I was shooting Win white box. Had some issues slingshotting the 7 round mag, but after the 3rd run through even that went flawlessly. Also, the mags dropped right out on pressing the release - not sure if it was modded or if the older models didnt have the issue of the mag sticking in place.

Come to find out based on the serial that this pistol was made in 03/04ish. In talking with the shop owner, he said he knew the owner and it had maybe a few hundred rounds through it then sat in a safe. I believe it too, the gun was practically mint.

So after shooting it some i decided to detail strip the slide to check out the striker channel, as this is going to be my new EDC. To my disgust, it was horrible, caked with residue. I cant believe, in the condition it was in, that it performed so well! Thats a tip of the hat to Kahr. But it seemed like the previous owner sprayed some oil into the striker channel because all of the parts had some sort of lubricant on them, and a nasty tarry residue (probably where the 'old oil' smell was coming from). The striker block spring looked almost solid...sick. Image:

http://smokingchamber.com/kahr/KahrPM9-dirty.JPG

To clean everything, I used Ballistol. I know...some folks hate it, and i'll probably catch some heat here. But to clean everything i gave the parts a Balli-bath, then wiped everything down excessively to make sure I left no residue on any part. Ran a Qtip with Balli through the striker channel, and pushed a patch-piece through the extractor channel. Again I wiped everything in the striker channel down thoroughly, and ran a piece of a dry patch and about 8 clean Qtips down the striker channel (of course not leaving cotton behind). Clean image:

http://smokingchamber.com/kahr/KahrPM9-clean.JPG

I know CLP break free or NC brake cleaner is preferred to spray into the cleaner hole for basic maintenance (obviously wouldn't use Ballistol for that). Some folks say to use alcohol, others say not to. I tend to use Ballistol for everything related to cleaning my firearms. So a question for the group is, if you use Ballistol to clean all the parts and the striker channel, AND make sure to thoroughly wipe everything down, will the issue of 'gunk' associated with lubricants come into play? Obviously I dont think so as I used it, but being a n00b in the Kahr world (and this is my first striker-fired firearm) im curious as to what the group has to say.

The only thing i've noticed being different since having detailed the slide is where the striker resets. Before i heard a dull click as the slide went forward and the striker reset (during slow racking), but now its a sharp and good sounding click. Regardless the gun is proabaly .5 ounces lighter now sans residue ;). I'll post my range report, should be about to get out and fire it this weekend. It was nearly flawless last time, I dont really expect more than that.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any comments, and for such an informative community.

[ripley16]

Welcome to the forum. Nothing wrong with Ballistol. It's been used for a long time. I have a can of it myself. Safe and effective stuff.

[yqtszhj]

Welcome to the forum. Clean is good. It really was dirty before. I would think it would run fine now.

[Joe L]

Good job! No problem with Ballistol at all. Enjoy your gun. I've shot mine out to 50 yards on a good day.

Joe

[340pd]

Maybe some of the best gun buys out there are small firearms that were bought and seldom shot. You did a great cleanup job and we look forward to a further range report.

[johnnyaxxe]

Thanks all, again being new to Kahr (and striker-fired pistols in general) Im glad to hear that Ballistol is OK for the striker channel - I did a good amount of research and didnt see any advice either way - just to make sure not to gunk it up.

So as a general rule, it seems that using ballistol in the channel to clean it up is OK during a detail strip - but for spraying it out using the cleaning hole stick to the NC brake cleaner or CLP break free (break free seems preferred overall based on my research).

Thanks again all.

[Bawanna]

I don't think I've ever seen one that nasty looking inside. That was really bad.

As long as you wipe away all sign of oil residue, any cleaner should be fine.

[jocko]

agree never seen on that way. no doubt for that prior owner it was merely a working tool and nothing else. Pride means nnadda.

[johnnyaxxe]

Yea it was a mess. That said, i didnt find any brass shavings or particles in there (although they may have been stuck up in the gunk) as some users have reported. So im wondering if this had been previously detailed then lubed the channel (whoops!), or if the slide had never been taken down and this was the result of some usage then alot of sitting around for many years - or maybe a few shots of remoil into the striker channel and some combination of the above.

I couldn't imagine ever letting a firearm get that bad just on the pride factor (re: jocko) let alone if you depend on it to function properly. Again though, even with all that crud i put a few hundred rounds through it a week before detailing the slide with only one FTE, which really is impressive to say the least!

[jocko]

probably why it was never really detailedstripped and cleaned. IT WORKED ANYOW.

[Barth]

Was using Militec-1.
But have switched to Ballistol.
I love that stuff.
http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/images/D/Ballistol-Lg-1.jpg

[espresso]

I have recentlly discovered Ballistol and love it!

I can clean my .357 and not worry about messing up my wood grips......I've used it on leather also-it's some slick stuff.

That PM has GOT to run smoother after that cleaning....what a nightmare.

[Tinman507]

I love it on crackers with a cold beer

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/200px-Easy_cheese2.jpg

[jdavis]

You did well and your PM should run better than new now.
On a side note, you mentioned that you slingshoted the slide. Kahr does not recommend this. You should use the slide release lever to chamber the first round as stated in your manual. If you don't have a manual, Kahr will send you one for free.

[johnnyaxxe]

@barth & espresso - YES I love ballistol too, discovered it by watching some Hickock45 videos on youtube (highly recommend!). Only thing i did learn, i think from the Armory Channel also on youtube is not to use it if you have gold plating on your firearm, apparently it removes it. Ballistol on crackers...not sure i'd go there but it does smell a bit like sambuca ;).

@jdavis - Thank you - my first striker channel clean! And you're 100% correct of course - i actually have the manual and a digital version i studied on the iPad before i bought the PM. You're right of course about using the release, but i was surprised that it worked so efficiently slingshotting. From what i've read (here i think) the use of the release lever instead of slingshotting has to do more with the magazine design than the actual firearm mechanics, but that's what i've read outside the manual. I did a successful tap-rack on the single FTE i had without issue.

JDavis and all, with that something im curious about, and may be worth a new thread...but here goes. What are the overall chances of a slamfire with a Kahr (assuming its somewhat clean), and are they mitigated using the release lever vs. slingshotting? Also read if you load 1 round fewer (5 in the 6 cap mag), you can ride the slide gently to chamber round 1 (effectively eliminating the chance of a SF), then cap off the mag. Not sure i like that idea but figured I'd mention it. Ill do some searching and if that topic isnt already covered i'll start a new one, may be worth getting some comments from you veteran Kahr-ers!

[jocko]

no way ur gonna get a smal fire. the striker is precocked when the slide returns to battery. no way the firingpin/strikeris gonna do anything..

[johnnyaxxe]

Thanks for that jocko. I did double check that the firing pin does retract about 1/4 of the way into the forward motion of the slide to be safe, but I agree I dont see how this gun could slamfire.

Took it to the range today, probably 80-100 rounds, 10 or so hollow points - performed flawlessly, cycled everything. AND the rancid smell of old oil is gone ;).

Thanks for all the support and info here gang. Next im going to switch out the stock sights for some night sights, Ill probably take it to my local gunsmith for that but will post up some before and after shots in a new thread.

[JimC]

You did well and your PM should run better than new now.
On a side note, you mentioned that you slingshoted the slide. Kahr does not recommend this. You should use the slide release lever to chamber the first round as stated in your manual. If you don't have a manual, Kahr will send you one for free.

Being able to load the first round successfully from the mag beginning with the slide locked to the rear by using the slingshot or over the top method is a sign that your Kahr is broken in and running properly.

I use the over the top method with my PM9 about 90% of the time with no problems at all. ;)

[jocko]

Thanks for that jocko. I did double check that the firing pin does retract about 1/4 of the way into the forward motion of the slide to be safe, but I agree I dont see how this gun could slamfire.

Took it to the range today, probably 80-100 rounds, 10 or so hollow points - performed flawlessly, cycled everything. AND the rancid smell of old oil is gone ;).

Thanks for all the support and info here gang. Next im going to switch out the stock sights for some night sights, Ill probably take it to my local gunsmith for that but will post up some before and after shots in a new thread.

ur gun smith is a goodone. some kahr sights arejust a total b!tch to get out. Ifany doubts about the ability of ur smitty to do the job, then donm't doit. askhim questions,k such as does he have a sight pusher etc. Good Smittys can do the job, no doubt about that. For me, I would error on the side of caution if any doubts at all and justy send the slide to kahr and let them doitk,will cost alittle more but if they fokk it up. they will stand behind it.Just sayin...ememberit is ur money so u have the right to ask any smitty or mechanic questions and then form ur own opinion

[johnnyaxxe]

@JimC - Ive read (on groups) and been told the same, that if the PM slingshots its broken in. Also read that after initial break-in it should, providing you really 'sling' it and dont ride it at all. JDavis above is right however, according to the manual it recommends using the release lever. All i know is my instinct is always to slingshot it and any sign of malfunction its getting a tap rack, so it is reassuring to that it has worked consistently that way.

@jocko - absolutely. There's a new master gunsmith at my local shop, Im going to talk to him about it before even bringing it in or selecting exactly which sites i need. I am 90% sure i have the pre-2004 version with the older slide, which from what i read takes a slightly different sight size - ill see if he knows about that for starters.

[jocko]

there is a photo on the kahr webb site on how to tell the difference on the slides. A small dimple is on the bottom of the slide depicting the newer slide that takes todays standard dovetails.

If u go to the kahr tech section anbd hit on the kahr lube chart, it shows the bottom side of a kahr slide and notice at the #9 area that dimple in the slide bottom. That tells u, ur slide is thge newer version. no diple, ur very limited in ur selection..

[johnnyaxxe]

Thanks for that jocko. I will double check tonight but i dont think my slide has the dimple.

[johnnyaxxe]

Update - my slide DOES have the dimple, and the sight grooves are very triangular cut (looking at them from the side). But, it has a serial of VA86XX - which from what i've found puts it at 2003/2004 manufacture. That SHOULD be the old slide, correct?

I actually emailed Kahr with the serial, I read there was a recall around that serial (something to do with the barrel plating if Im not mistaken), Im thinking maybe the previous owner sent it in for service and Kahr swapped out some parts. Ill let you all know what I find out.

[johnnyaxxe]

Ah forgot to follow up here. I seem to have the dimple but definitely have the blocky-style slide, so seems to be an old model. Going to pick up some tridium sights, so thanks for inspiring me to look into this, would have probably been a bad day trying to get the new style sights on the old style frame :D.

[jocko]

Update - my slide DOES have the dimple, and the sight grooves are very triangular cut (looking at them from the side). But, it has a serial of VA86XX - which from what i've found puts it at 2003/2004 manufacture. That SHOULD be the old slide, correct?

I actually emailed Kahr with the serial, I read there was a recall around that serial (something to do with the barrel plating if Im not mistaken), Im thinking maybe the previous owner sent it in for service and Kahr swapped out some parts. Ill let you all know what I find out.

u hve the blunt nose version PM9 which is my personal favorite. Nice thing for u, is tha tu can go to wolffs gunsprings and just order their outter recoil springs and nothng else is needed. They also offer that outter spring in factory weight and one a tad more strength.

I have a used PM9 VA 45xx numer and it is perfect, never misses a beat.

[johnnyaxxe]

Agreed Jocko, i think i got lucky finding this one! Thx for the info on Wolff gunsprings, will probably get a replacement at some point...but its still pretty tight overall considering its apparent age. Serial is VA95XX. Here are some pics of the little fella...been virtually flawless, probably approaching 800 rounds since i've owned it and one stovepipe which occured BEFORE detailing the slide. Also the slight idiot mark under the slide release lever was there when i bought it...only bummer. I have traction grips and a hogue jr. wrap on it.

http://smokingchamber.com/kahr/PM9-1.JPG

http://smokingchamber.com/kahr/PM9-2.JPG

[jocko]

johnnyaxe: PM sent

[Garland]

That thing was so nasty inside I bet the PO sprayed WD40 in the cleanout hole. Congrats on bringing it back to life! I am also a Ballistol convert, and use it whenever possible.