locking the slide back to help break it in

[pikemaster11]

Just got a cm9 and forgot to ask if locking the slide back for extended periods of time will help loosen it up. I know it needs a 200 round break in, and to raack the slide 500 to 1000 times, and to clean it, but was curious if this helped. If it does, how long should it be kept locked back

[zamboni]

If you clean and lube it and rack it 500 times you should be good to go.

[JimC]

If you clean it, lube it well and use full power quality ammo, and forego the 500 to 1000 racks :rolleyes: ...you should be just fine.

Check your manual that came with your pistol, you won't find a section on "racking" a new pistol any number of times. ;)

I did just this with my PM9 when it was new and it performed 100% on day one at the range for 425 rds. except...two out of five mags failed by splitting.

FWIW, I think Kahr has gotten past this mag thing by now though.

[ripley16]

If you clean it, lube it well and use full power quality ammo, and forego the 500 to 1000 racks :rolleyes: ...you should be just fine.



Amen. When did this hand ranking nonsense begin?

[JimC]

Amen. When did this hand ranking nonsense begin?

I've only been here about a year and it was going on then. :rolleyes:

From my experience, you won't find Kahr CS recommending this practice as a requirement either.

[jocko]

It probably started farther back that that. It was a RECOMMENATION that ol jocko put in his propper prepping of ur kahr thread that was talked about on this fourm when I came on here. It made sense to me, as certainly something that will not harm anything and just might help somewhat. Nothing beats the BANG thing and the gun cyclling as designed, common sense will tellu that.

Is it necessary??? NO, does it help???Some report it does, to my knowlefge I have never read where it has harmed anything.
We have lots of FIXES/ SUGGESTIONS/MODS on the kahr tech section. Some I would not recommend either but again, we know many of them also have worked for that owner...Most of the fixes posted on this forum usually follow with a disclaimer by the writer,so for me I am cool with that. One can read and certainly get some insight as to why the owner did what he did to his gun and then make your own decision as to if it is something u would want to do

I would bet that kahr CS would not recommend the mag squeezing mod either but we knoow it works.

[Tinman507]

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/handracking.jpg

[jocko]

thats a good one Tinman, as usuaal

[CJB]

locking back the slide really wont do anything

its the "working" of the spring that reduces its initial set tension. The spring's pressure can be graphed, and it forms a curve. Initial working of the spring reduces its tension the most, and the curve slowly flattens out to a slope over many working cycles.

The speed at which the spring is worked matters. Consider this - very very slow racking is not much work for the spring at all, considering you're changing the spring's metallic structure, its grain, when you work it. But fast cycling is more likely to change the spring, while ultra fast cycling may actually snap the spring. We don't see the latter happen in the speeds we encounter in our pistols....unless some stress point is created in the spring - a kink, or a nick in the springs wire.

To make matters worse - springs are weird. You can compress a spring, and measure its force, and say, ok, the spring is "this strong", right? Nope. Not only do you have to consider the force at the desired compression, but the force along the compression cycle, at the rate that the spring would be cycled when in use, which can be really weird when graphed. I dont think gun makers consider that sort of thing, and just experiment with stronger or weaker springs.

[forestranger]

I know Kahr says the slide racking is not needed but it didn't hurt anything in my case. Kinda like the old saying that for a DA revolver, a thousand dryfires = action job?

[CJB]

Don't hurt! Not at all... does help too! Just takes a whole lot more hand racks vs shootin' racks to do approximately the same job.

And, don't get me started because, evidence in the spring industry suggests that slow cycling springs during initial use, actually makes them hold up better as far as that "long curve" is concerned. The stuff you can google these days... has to do with the micro-structure of the grain of the spring. Beyond me by a long ways. To me metal is soft, tough, hard, springy or burnt.... after that its all blondes brunettes and redheads....

Dunno why I'm adding this but late great champion shooter and pistol smith Bob Day used magazine springs as welding rod when he built up barrels for his bullseye match .45's (1911 models). He'd weld the spring metal onto the hood, and underlugs of stock Colt barrels with magazine springs, saying those made the toughest end result of anything he tried.

[JimC]

To the OP:

Go to any other gun forum such as Glock, HK, SIG or S&W and find on any of them where there is any mention or recommendation of "racking" the slide on any of those pistols 500 to 1,000 times. I'll save you the time, you won't find it. ;)

As CJB has already said, locking the slide back won't really due anything to help with a new recoil assembly/spring. They only way is to shoot it.

As I said above, use full power quality ammo to break in your CM9 or PM9 pistol and it will run properly for you.

I like the Win. NATO (Q4318) spec 124 gr. FMJ loading for this. After 100 rds., your new pistol will feel better, trust me.

IMO, many of the reported problems with either the CM9 or PM9 are due to inexperienced, new or first time buyer shooters not knowing what to do with a new pistol.

As to squeezing magazines to get them to work...shouldn't have to be done at all, they should work right out of the box. Just because it may work for some, doesn't make it right.

[yqtszhj]

I'm a hand racker. It lets you see also if there are any places that are rubbing as the slide moves back and forth so if I want/need to smooth them out before the first range trip I can since I don't carry my full gun kit to the range.

[TheTman]

I bought two CW's, a .40 and a .45. The CW40, I took out of the box and started shooting, I had some problems but found out from the rangemaster I need to change my hold on the gun, so as not to limp wrist it. This was my first polymer gun, and I guess they flex a little more than the all metal semi's I'd shot before and never had a problem. Once I changed my hold on the gun, it's been flawless. That was before I found the forum and the prep thread.
Then 2nd CW I bought was a .45, and I did all the suggested prep and handracking, and wouldn't you know it, but that was the gun that gave me trouble. The trigger quit resetting after about 50 rounds, and a trip back to Kahr fixed it (they had it back to me in 7 days!!) and it's been quite reliable since then as long as I stick with the 6 round mags, it's been one of my CC guns, I have 4 that I CC depending on weather, circumstances, where I'm going, etc. For some reason it will not shoot from the 7 round mags. It was shooting ok from a Chip McCormick 8 round 1911 mag, not well enough to use it as my spare mag, but was ok at the range, it had a hang ups here and there that kept it from being a spare CC mag. But after it's last trip to Kahr, that quit working very well. They didn't do much, polish the feed ramp, and some other part, and test fired and said it was ok and sent it back. Only took 6 days that trip, but they didn't fix the problem, so it will be probably going back, If some of Jocko's tips don't help me figure out what is happening.

[CJB]

One thing should also be stated.

The shooter may think - my pistol is "broken in" so I can change the spring and everthing will function just perfectly.....

Nada. New spring is the major part of "breaking in" IMHO.

[Sage]

I did the rack thing with my PM9 when it was new. I think it loosened it up a bit. Anyway, I've never had a single issue with it. Like stated above "no harm done".

[jocko]

my point exactly, It causes no harm, it might not do anything positive either but again you do not know that either. so no harm no foul works in this case. Ones concern is that first shoot and if it is a good one then IMO anything u did prior to that shoot should make u feel better about it. Just sayin

For me makes no real difference what direction one chooses to go, as the kahr tech section is full of SUGGESTIONS. not mandates..

[wyntrout]

One thing should also be stated.

The shooter may think - my pistol is "broken in" so I can change the spring and everthing will function just perfectly.....

Nada. New spring is the major part of "breaking in" IMHO.

That's true. I've kept my wife's P380 locked open since we've had it and I haven't noticed any weakening. She could barely rack my "old" one! I'll probably wind up swapping my springs to hers and she'll still have problems.

Wynn:rolleyes:

[CJB]

The US Army did tests, after WWI to see how 1911 magazine springs would react if stored with the magazines full of ammunition. I think they concluded the tests a while after WWII and concluded that there was no ill effect on the spring whatsoever, if storing a magazine loaded with ammunition for extended time.

[cobrasjp]

It causes no harm

I would respectfully disagree.

Hand racking and letting the recoil spring slam the slide into battery, without a round being chambered, causes undue stress on the barrel locking surfaces. I think it's far better to clean and lube a new gun, then shoot it. It's worked on all five of my Kahrs.

And I also think that it gives Kahrs a bad rap, because the "recommendation" here somehow morphs into a "requirement" that is used to bad mouth Kahrs on various internet forums. You find many an uninformed person posting that they wouldn't buy a gun that had to be racked hundreds of times to work right. When in reality, it's not a requirement from Kahr, but just public opinion.

Again, my disagreement is submitted with all due respect.

SJP

[les strat]

A lot of the crap talk about kahrs actually stems from having a break-in period recommended from kahr. Would someone carry a 1911 right out of the box? The informed know these guns are not glocks or ak47s. They are very precise accurate weapons for their size and need slicking up.

I did the break-in and racks and have had zero issues. To each his own.

[Tinman507]

http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/therack.jpg

[Popeye]

I can't ever remember not breaking down a gun to familiarize myself with it's parts ,cleaning and lubing it and working the action about a 100 times before I shot it for the first time. The smaller pistols like the Kahr PM9 and the Kel Tec P3at I might have done more. Honestly do not remember. To me it's just part of new gun ownwership and will point out any unusual wear spots on the slide or frame rails etc. before you get down to live ammo firing. I do not let the slide fly foward on an empty chamber. I really see no positive or useful benifit to doing that. Especially on 1911's where that heavy slides races foward like a run away train slamming into a brick wall. ;)

[jocko]

I would respectfully disagree.

Hand racking and letting the recoil spring slam the slide into battery, without a round being chambered, causes undue stress on the barrel locking surfaces. I think it's far better to clean and lube a new gun, then shoot it. It's worked on all five of my Kahrs.

And I also think that it gives Kahrs a bad rap, because the "recommendation" here somehow morphs into a "requirement" that is used to bad mouth Kahrs on various internet forums. You find many an uninformed person posting that they wouldn't buy a gun that had to be racked hundreds of times to work right. When in reality, it's not a requirement from Kahr, but just public opinion.

Again, my disagreement is submitted with all due respect.

SJP
no harm no foul. I certrainly hope u figured out that most all that hand rack their slide do not release it to go back into battery by itself but merely ride it back to battery. That harms nadda
with due respect also. Itis a recommendation as published on ths forum, never5 said it was a requirement for success. Everyone seems to travle their own paths. YMMV..

[JFootin]

Kahr is not the only manufacturer who recommends a breakin number of rounds for their guns. And some say many more than 200 rounds. Just sayin'...