View Full Version : ears ringing, need something better Surefire EP's ?
joshh
07-14-2012, 12:19 PM
so, i have tried the standard types of ear protection and bought some electronic muffs. they all work ok but still not perfect and not what i want. the ranges have been crowded lately and i like to hear whats going on around me so i have been wearing the electronic muffs. last night, after a couple hours under the roof of the range with 3 ar's, 1 mini-14 & a saiga 7.62, i experience something i havent had happen before. for the 1st time (from shooting) my ears were ringing and it lasted until i fell asleep but woke up fine this am. The muffs are great with pistols but obviously arent sealing well with a rifle so i need to try something else. a while back someone recommended http://www.surefire.com/ep3-sonic-defenders.html. so i am considering them because they say you can hear well and they only block loud noises. they are cheap enough so i think i am gonna order some but does anybody have any suggestions or input on them or something similar that i can buy (without spending hundreds).http://kahrtalk.com/they%20say%20you%20can%20hear%20well%20and%20they% 20only%20block%20loud%20noises
Tinman507
07-14-2012, 12:20 PM
Use those soft rubber plugs under the muffs.
Hearing damage is cumulative. the ringing is your ears telling you they're being damaged.
jocko
07-14-2012, 12:41 PM
what did u say?????
kb2wji
07-14-2012, 12:45 PM
HUH!?!? Is someone there?!?!?!?
+1 for what Costanza...ehh, Tinman said. Especially indoors, ALWAYS plugs under the muffs.
Thats what she said.
Barth
07-14-2012, 12:55 PM
What?
The phones ringing?
Answer the damn thing!
Your ears ringing does really mean you are damaging them.
I'd forget about hearing whats around you while you are shooting
and focus on protecting your hearing.
Double up on quality earplugs and muffs.
I use Pro Ears Ultra 33 NRR 33 Passive Ear Muffs.
MW surveyor
07-14-2012, 01:01 PM
Take it from someone that needs to wear hearing aids. Don't worry too much about hearing what is going on around you. Double up!
JFootin
07-14-2012, 02:24 PM
I went with a date to hear John Kay and Steppenwolf at a performance club in Asheville, NC, back in the mid-80s. Their sound system was way, way too powerful for that little club. Plus, the dancing area was right in front of the stage, and the SPEAKERS!!! Duh. I had no earplugs, and my ears definitely got damaged. I have tinnitus to this very day. :(
Barth
07-14-2012, 02:40 PM
I went with a date to hear John Kay and Steppenwolf at a performance club in Asheville, NC, back in the mid-80s. Their sound system was way, way too powerful for that little club. Plus, the dancing area was right in front of the stage, and the SPEAKERS!!! Duh. I had no earplugs, and my ears definately got damaged. I have tinnitus to this very day. :(
Foghat, mid 70s, at the Aladdin in Las Vegas.
Same thing...
http://www.foghat.net/images/fhathead.gif
DeaconKC
07-14-2012, 05:27 PM
The surefire plugs are extremely comfortable and seemed to work well when I used them at the range. However, I was only shooting mild .38s and .44 Special loads. i would not rely on them for my high powered rifles. Double up, use foam and muffs for long sessions.
OldLincoln
07-14-2012, 05:36 PM
HDoc gave me a pair of "Skull Screws" that are better than anything else I've tried. You do actually screw them into your ears and you can hear ambient sound die away as you do. A pair of muffs over that and you won't be affected by the noise.
GROTMAN
07-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Use those soft rubber plugs under the muffs.
Hearing damage is cumulative. the ringing is your ears telling you they're being damaged.
+1 on the doubling up..my wife has very good hearing and the muffs alone don't work well for her but when she uses the ear plugs and muffs seems to work well for her.
MC1911
07-14-2012, 06:00 PM
I want to add another vote for plugs and muffs.
wyntrout
07-15-2012, 08:40 AM
I use disposable plugs with my 30 -dB muffs, but the last box of those things were too had to roll and insert well. I already have too much hearing loss and tinnitus, so I try to use as much protection as possible. Wearing shooting glasses allows a little sound to get in, too.
The thing to remember about sound reduction is that -29dB and -29dB for muff and plugs can only give you at best -32dB total protection in a perfect situation. each 3 dB=2x... protection =2 raised to the power of dB/3. So -30dB should be 2 raised to the 30/3, or 10th power of 2 which is 1,024. Or a reduction to 1/1000 of the sound... supposedly... in a perfect simulation.
Wynn:)
LorenzoB
07-15-2012, 09:44 AM
... but does anybody have any suggestions or input on them or something similar that i can buy (without spending hundreds)....
I have these and the quality is surprisingly good. They are comfortable too, and they were only $45 at Amazon.com
http://www.howardleight.com/ear-muffs/impact-sport
Double up if you are around many other shooters or really big guns. Last range visit I only had cheap earplugs and one lane over was a .50 cal sniper rifle. He was only taking a shot every 5 minutes, but I had to leave.
I have never bought from this company before, but they have a ton of choices and information...
http://www.earplugstore.com/hunting-and-shooting-ear-plugs.html
Sometimes the foam ones you need to roll up can be hard to fit... they do have them in smaller sizes for smaller ears, so get ones that fit well and they will work better. I prefer reusable ones made from silicone (instead of foam), the ones that look like little trees. They are way more convenient to put in and take out (when you want to hear a conversation), then pop them right back in easily instead of rolling and squishing.
use those soft rubber plugs under the muffs.
Hearing damage is cumulative. The ringing is your ears telling you they're being damaged.
+10,000
HDoc gave me a pair of "Skull Screws" that are better than anything else I've tried. You do actually screw them into your ears and you can hear ambient sound die away as you do. A pair of muffs over that and you won't be affected by the noise.
Skull screws are very good, any soft foam earplugs under regular earmuffs (at least 28 NRR rated) will give you maximal protection. Forget hearing what's going on around you, that quest will lead to your eventual hearing loss.
Gun ranges, and especially indoor reverberant rooms, are cochlear hair cell death traps. You can choose either protection or hearing loss. Eventually
shooting and hunting will catch up with you.
You don't need fancy electronic stuff at the range (hunting is different) wear for comfort. That ringing in your ears is your body telling you that injury has occurred and as noted by a previous poster, its slowly cumulative.
OldLincoln
07-15-2012, 01:28 PM
I sure wish the USAF had better muffs 50 years ago, and yes I always wore mine. I'll never regret serving but I do miss hearing without the constant roaring in my ears. If you don't have the ringing yet protect your ears and you just may still be able to hear years from now. If you do have the ringing, protect what you have left. Some here can't talk on the phone and read subtitles when watching TV. Don't join that club.
Planedude
07-15-2012, 03:53 PM
I'll second on the price in life for living around jets (say what??). I was lucky enough to usally wear my heraring protection when I was a young mechanic.
I called them BS filters back then...
I guess I should find those old bosses and thank them for being such arsewholes?:rolleyes:
The molded plugs you will find being made at most gunshows work the best. Add a set of muffs and you will know what it sounds like in outer space. I almost always shoot on a outdoor range or at my Trap and Skeet club. I find the electronics work best for me outside. Skeet is such a social sport and the jaw jacking is half the fun...:cool:
Peace out and take care for your hearing.
jocko
07-15-2012, 04:05 PM
I can assure u guysmy age back 50+ years agowould not be caught dead with hearing protectors, when I swent through basic we trianed with M1 and there was no hearing protectors or nuttin. It was a macho thing--so wethouhgt but today my hearing is allbut shot in the ass. not only because of guns but I worked around loud products for 40 years, Wejust didn't know better back thenb and hearing protectors like we have today were few and far between.It should be a must for every shooter and I don't mean those rubber ass plugs either. Nobody today is gonna laugh at u. Course the one thing that onemisses is the report of a 9mm, or 40 or any caliber to. There is as u know a hell of a difference. Ican't imagine a 40 cal going off in the home. Just sayin
Ur right o the skeet shooting thing though. Thatis why I love to shoot skeept. The comradrie is super andI usually crack one ear side to verbalize and I as most do are back 15 feetatleast from the shooter, so it ain't bad.
Barth
07-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Course the one thing that onemisses is the report of a 9mm, or 40 or any caliber to. There is as u know a hell of a difference. Ican't imagine a 40 cal going off in the home. Just sayin
I've shot a 155 gr 1150 fps 40 in a home with no hearing protection.
It sounded suppressed under the influence of adrenalin.
At the range protect your hearing at all times.
Once gone it really can't easily be replaced.
For SD? Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
I have these and the quality is surprisingly good. They are comfortable too, and they were only $45 at Amazon.com
http://www.howardleight.com/ear-muffs/impact-sport
Bad passive noise reduction on these (NRR 22). Howard Leight is an excellent company, but these are crappy for a range.
I have never bought from this company before, but they have a ton of choices and information...
http://www.earplugstore.com/hunting-and-shooting-ear-plugs.html
Sometimes the foam ones you need to roll up can be hard to fit... they do have them in smaller sizes for smaller ears, so get ones that fit well and they will work better. I prefer reusable ones made from silicone (instead of foam), the ones that look like little trees. .
Silicone is fine, I prefer them too, but research has shown that people use undersized silicone plugs for comfort which limits their effectiveness. If you were fit in the military you probably remember the color sizes: green-small;orange-medium; large- blue. There is no such thing as a good universal fit silicone plug. If you like the feel of them ask your wife/friend to look at them in your ear. If they aren't inserted so that the last flange is resting at the end of the ear canal, they are mis-fit and are not providing the rated protection.
My personal choice for a range is any expanding foam plug under a simple passive muff.
The thing to remember about sound reduction is that -29dB and -29dB for muff and plugs can only give you at best -32dB total protection in a perfect situation. each 3 dB=2x... protection =2 raised to the power of dB/3. So -30dB should be 2 raised to the 30/3, or 10th power of 2 which is 1,024. Or a reduction to 1/1000 of the sound... supposedly... in a perfect simulation.
Wynn:)
Correct physics, but the dB on hearing protection is NRR, noise reduction rating and is derived from a non-logarithmic formula. They are not "pure" decibels.
Depending on which version of the NRR used on the product 29 plus 29 dB NRR can equal considerably more than 32 dB. On the other hand most folks in the know derate the published NRR by about half for real world results.
And of course on the other hand impulse noise from gun fire does not act on the ear the way that steady state noise does and my belief is that if you damp the shock impulse, you've provided some effective protection.
So a good seal on your ears will mitigate most gunfire.
I lived this stuff for thirty plus years, so pardon my nit-pickyness.
wyntrout
07-15-2012, 05:33 PM
No problem! I used to do a lot of ham radio "stuff' and we used dB ratings for radio signal strength, as in antenna gain in calculating Effective Radiated Power against an imaginary perfect quarter-wave or half-wave antenna standard.
The type of sound impulse is a big factor, too. Shotgun vs. pistol vs. rifle fire and then there are aircraft noises. We had lots of noisy stuff to worry about... and apparently I didn't do enough to protect my ears. When I first went through Basic Training for the USAF back in the Summer of 1964, we had NO ear protection for the firing range!:eek: THAT was quite a shock!
I was mainly trying to point out that -29dB + -29dB didn't equal -58dB in NRR.
Wynn:)
jocko
07-15-2012, 06:25 PM
heh u guys let me know when u come down to earth with this technical stuff, Then I will start reading again. Just sayin and ur gonna have to speak LOUDER to..
Tinman507
07-15-2012, 06:27 PM
the bangs the gun thingie make are injuring his hearing.
jocko
07-15-2012, 06:33 PM
thanksu tinman for interceding for me...Just sayin
Tinman507
07-15-2012, 06:39 PM
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o542/tinman507/youarewelcome.png
No problem! When I first went through Basic Training for the USAF back in the Summer of 1964, we had NO ear protection for the firing range!
Wynn:)
WHAT?!? The Air Force had guns????:rolleyes:
wyntrout
07-15-2012, 11:10 PM
Sure! For many Basic Training is the only time they see and handle any kind of firearms. I had to qualify with the M1 carbine when I enlisted. I carried a S&W .38 on courier runs on Okinawa. Our crewmembers SSGT and above were issued .38's for flights, and after I made SSGT, I was issued one(S&W M18, I believe, with adjustable sights) before I went to Danang just the day before the first Tet Offensive. Most USAF personnel had no weapons there. I wound up with an M16(and 7 20-round mags) as well, that my Project Officer signed out and brought me that Tet evening. We lived in "MASH" type tent city on the S.E. edge of the base with two chainlink fences between us and whatever. I saw plenty of whatever early the next morning and day!
When I went back into the USAF after college I had to qualify with the various S&W revolvers we carried when flying and later in the command post in Europe. We had .38's when I got there and then had to qualify with the 870 Remington as well for the command posts.
I remember talking to some of the enlisted controllers... female... and at least one thought she was ready for combat after shooting at a paper target a few times!
I read recently that the Air Force was talking about more intensive weapon training for recruits. It's nuts that some whacko can get on base and nobody is armed... like the incident at Fort Hood, let alone in hostile countries, on in a combat zone!
Wynn:)
joshh
07-16-2012, 10:23 AM
hey guys, thanks for the input but muffs are becoming useless because for whatever reason they dont seal well when i am shooting rifles. i have tried a couple types amd am sick of wasting the $ to be disappointed. the foamies dont provide enough protection under the low roof of the range i have been shooting at. i understand that my hearing should be (and is) my priority, but i am hoping that something like these shurefire's would do the trick while still allowing me some type of awareness to whats going on around the range when its crowded. that said, i am open to suggestions on that type of product if anyone is having luck with it...
jocko
07-16-2012, 11:36 AM
take ur earrings off and then try um!!!!! Just sayin
Tinman507
07-16-2012, 11:54 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563399_451264401572791_1741436858_n.jpg
jocko
07-16-2012, 12:03 PM
love the4 hat to. what aD!ck head. Just sayihn
joshh
07-16-2012, 03:21 PM
thanks for the input
no ear rings here in years. been considering them again tho, the wife loved when i had them.
I ordered a set of the surefires and figured for the $ it was worth a shot. I also found some reviews of them and for the most part people really liked how they work. they actually are very similar to what the military is using from 3M but less $ & won a shooting product of the year award last year. we'll see, hopefully they do the trick
DeaconKC
07-16-2012, 07:33 PM
Okay, if you can't get the muffs to seal properly, spend the extra money and get some in the ear fitted plugs. Yeah, they are expensive, but your hearing does not come back! Like many of the other posters here, I have lost some of my hearing due to shooting [mine was from a prison tower] and once it is gone, it's gone.
joshh
07-16-2012, 09:44 PM
Okay, if you can't get the muffs to seal properly, spend the extra money and get some in the ear fitted plugs. Yeah, they are expensive, but your hearing does not come back! Like many of the other posters here, I have lost some of my hearing due to shooting [mine was from a prison tower] and once it is gone, it's gone.
Yeah I def dont want any more nights like that. My ears rang pretty badly. The surefire sight says they have NRR 24db. My Electronic muffs say 23db. So between the better rating and hopefully better seal, I'll be all set. I'll post a review in this thread after I try them.
Okay, if you can't get the muffs to seal properly, spend the extra money and get some in the ear fitted plugs. Yeah, they are expensive, but your hearing does not come back! Like many of the other posters here, I have lost some of my hearing due to shooting [mine was from a prison tower] and once it is gone, it's gone.
Custom fitted plugs don't offer any more protection than expandable foam plugs that cost under a dollar unless you have some form of disfigured ear canal or severe arthritis so that you can't roll the foam.
The usual quality foam plugs offer 29 to 33 dB NRR.
Haven
07-17-2012, 08:11 AM
hey guys, thanks for the input but muffs are becoming useless because for whatever reason they dont seal well when i am shooting rifles. i have tried a couple types amd am sick of wasting the $ to be disappointed. the foamies dont provide enough protection under the low roof of the range i have been shooting at. i understand that my hearing should be (and is) my priority, but i am hoping that something like these shurefire's would do the trick while still allowing me some type of awareness to whats going on around the range when its crowded. that said, i am open to suggestions on that type of product if anyone is having luck with it...
I had some custom molded earplugs made for me at a gun show. Every gun show I've been to had someone set up selling these. I also had them put the diffuser thingie in them so that I could hear people talk.( works kinda like the electronic ear mufflers) PLUS....earings can still be worn with these!
Haven
07-17-2012, 08:13 AM
I saw a BIG difference in the molded ear plugs over the foam ones.
LorenzoB
07-17-2012, 08:36 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563399_451264401572791_1741436858_n.jpg
He has his finger ON the trigger!!!
He values his hearing more than his life!
joshh
09-12-2012, 10:33 AM
sorry that i am dusting off an old thread but i have used the surefires a few times now and have to say i am quite impressed. for me, they work as advertised. i used them last weekend while shooting my AR 5.56. i had someone shooting on each side of me, one also shooting an AR with 223 and the other shooting a saiga 7.62. shots sound noticeable & sharper and not quite as "muffled" sounding as when wearing foam plugs or big muffs. but its not overly loud and does feel dangerously loud by any means. i could hear what people were saying and after being their for a few hours i had no ringing!
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSUEP3MPR&name=SUREFIRE+EP3+Sonic+Defender+Hearing+Protectio n+Clear+Medium&groupid=301&search=surefire
for the price ($12.56) i would recommend trying these. At some point I will have some molded plugs made with the "valve" to hear people talk, but for now, these are great
http://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product/XSUEP3MPR.jpg
Look at the Noise reduction rating (NRR) for the Surefires: 24 dB then look at the noise
level of your ammo.. around 150-165 dB NOT adding any other shooters. 165 minus 24=
141 dB. Think this is safe?
Quick answer is no. You gotta wear a pair of muffs on top of these at the range.
Hunting with a few shots is OK but a couple of boxes of ammo is going to cause permanent hearing loss.
O'Dell
09-12-2012, 02:34 PM
Use everything you can to dull the noise. I've spent my adult life around jet engines, race cars, motorcycles, and guns, so my hearing is shot. I ALWAYS have ranging in both ears and sometimes other noises layered on top of the ring. Until 25 or 30 years ago no one wore hearing protection, so my hearing was gone before I used ear plugs or muffs. I'm too vain [so far] to wear any aids, but I say 'what?' a lot and miss half the dialog on TV. I've become pretty good at lip reading, but it doesn't help if the person is turned away or the voice is off camera. I was in a fairly noisy restaurant last week and the person across from me had a habit of putting their hands in front of their mouth when speaking. I couldn't hear 1/4 of what they said, so I just smiled and nodded a great deal.
Bawanna
09-12-2012, 03:10 PM
I do that an awful lot too. My right ear is completely gone, I have the most powerful hearing aid available in my left. When I turn it off my riding lawnmower with blown muffler sounds like one of those Lincoln (not to be confused with Old Lincoln) commercials. The only way I know it's even running is the vibration.
No phones, close captioning, look at me when you talk.
And that constant tea kettle boiling in your ears, even the bad one will sometimes drive you batty. (constant dial tone) Feed back with the hearing machine sometimes isn't much better.
Like you mine was gone before hearing protection. Drag racing (on an approved track), car and motorcycle racing, all took it's toll on yours truly.
First ear doc I went to way way back was convinced it was from hours on end on a farm tractor. The exhaust right in my dead right ear as I looked over my left shoulder to see what I was doing. My dad was just the opposite, deaf in left but he usually looked over his right shoulder.
We did ok when he was on my right side, both our good ears (well sort of good) facing out.
JFootin
09-12-2012, 05:03 PM
My ears have rung ever since I went to hear John Kay and Steppenwolf at a small performance club in Asheville, NC, back in the mid-80s. Their sound system would have worked good at Woodstock, but it was way too much in that little club. :hurt:
jocko
09-12-2012, 05:37 PM
oh yes , I am a NODDER for sure. 100% gone in left ear, hearing aid in the right ear, now maybe 75%. But Iam one of the best NODDERS around and I am getting better at lip reading. A shame but like most of u guys back in the DAY. hearing protectors was not around or if so one was a sissy to wear um. Cars, guns, motorcycles, lawn mowers, loud ass xwife. Not sure which one was worse. I can tell u which one was the most expensive. Oh well Life is good other than that. Just sayin.
Tinman507
09-12-2012, 05:55 PM
Read my Lips
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Blowing_a_raspberry.ogv/mid-Blowing_a_raspberry.ogv.jpg
My ears have rung ever since I went to hear John Kay and Steppenwolf at a small performance club in Asheville, NC, back in the mid-80s. Their sound system would have worked good at Woodstock, but it was way too much in that little club. :hurt:
It was Deep Purple or Black Sabbath at the Filmore for me.
"Evil wo mannnnn.... eeeeeee Bzzzzzzzz" My ear drum perforated.....
JFootin
09-12-2012, 07:44 PM
It was Deep Purple or Black Sabbath at the Filmore for me.
"Evil wo mannnnn.... eeeeeee Bzzzzzzzz" My ear drum perforated.....
The Filmore! Wow! I think we're a couple of aging hippies! :hippie:
O'Dell
09-12-2012, 10:03 PM
My ears have rung ever since I went to hear John Kay and Steppenwolf at a small performance club in Asheville, NC, back in the mid-80s. Their sound system would have worked good at Woodstock, but it was way too much in that little club. :hurt:
Never been to a rock concert. Oh wait, once I let a girl drag me to a Ted Nugent concert on New Years Eve back about 73 or 74. Most boring evening I ever spent with a female - I'm glad she bought the tickets, because I'd hate to have had to pay for the experience.
The Filmore! Wow! I think we're a couple of aging hippies! :hippie:
Due to my security clearance and the new cultural sensitivity I prefer
former counter-cultural enthusiast....
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