markstertt
08-03-2012, 02:37 PM
Nice forum, I started lurking here after I started having problems with my pistol that I purchased in May of last year s/n RC1xxx. I bought the P380 because it truly fit my pocket, felt good in hand and looked much like my Glock 17 and at the price maybe was just as good.
Long story short, after 350+ rnds, many FTF and 2 dozen light strikes my 380 went back to Kahr where they polished the feed ramp and "updated" just about everything else. When asked, they recommended I use American made, brass cased, non reloads only. This is interesting because the only rnds. that fed flawlessly were CCI alloy cased fmj's.
After another 150 rnds. with NO more light strikes but many FTF and failures to completely go into battery, I decided it was time for me to investigate.
Before I go further, let me say that all my shooting was done with a mixture of inexpensive brand bullets, most fmj but some hp's and 3 different magazines. I used Magtech, PMC, CCI, Rem. UMC, Fiocchi and USAammo. CCI alloy's were the only rnds. to function flawlessly and this was my first clue as to the nature of my 380's problem. The Fiocchi HP's would never feed a single round and were the only bullet tested with that straight sided volcano shaped bullet.
I fully expect this little gun to function with cheaper rnds. as I like to shoot it a lot and with it's smooth trigger and sights and ergos you can shoot it all day like a .22, unless you're a woman as my girls found it very hard to pull the slide back due to the strong recoil springs. The Glock gives them no trouble.
My inspection of the Kahr compared to my Glock revealed that my Kahr isn't as well finished as the Glock and the rougher surfaces create to much drag for the slides inertia to overcome resulting in FTF's and failure to go completely into battery. However, the harder alloy case of the CCI rnds. allowed them to glide over rather than dig in like the brass cased rnds. I won't go into recoil spring wts. here as the fit and finish should be addressed first and in my case was all that was necessary...so far.
I addressed the following areas to correct my feed issues:
(note, start by completely disassembling pistol including slide, if you aren't capable of getting the pistol completely apart then you probably shouldn't be attempting this detailing as you may not get it back together, however, it's pretty basic once you've gotten in there.)
1. Polish out all machining scratches in 'top' of chamber, this is important because as the bullet tips from the feed ramp into the chamber the top leading edge of the case is pushed across the rough chamber roof...test this by pushing a rnd. in by hand at an angle before and after polishing and you will feel the difference. My Glock came glassy smooth as my Kahr is now. The feed ramp and its bottom chamber entry radius is good from Kahr but I polished it more...look at all these surfaces with a magnifying glass and you will see why more is needed in most cases.
2. Dress and polish the breech face, mostly below firing pin hole, radius & polish the leading edge of breech step on left side where rnd. base first meets this step...see Frankfuss's post of 6-06-12 for his post and pix of this step...thanks Frankfuss...this is important also as the overly strong extractor pushes the round against this left side step, more drag.
3. Extractor leading edge, radius and polish the leading edges where the bullet case first makes contact with extractor claw, try to push a case up and under the extractor while it's still assembled in slide and start the case at an angle to the breech just like when the shell is being stripped from the magazine. Do this and you will immediately see this point of contact and why a little radiusing here will help, both surfaces. This is actually the shells point of contact opposite the step we already radiused and polished in step 2 above. The sideward push (to left) by the extractor forces the case base against the breech step that we previously radiused and polished.
4. Extractor spring tension, this is probably the biggest improvement and compared to my Glock the Kahr easily took twice as much pressure to push a rnd. up and under the extractor. This didn't seem right to me. This is usually the spot where my gun would jam with the rnd. at an angle, leading edge jammed against the top of chamber and case back trying to slide under extractor. The extractor spring is sandwiched between the forward pin and a rear pin so I took the rear pin and ground .050" off it's length and reinstalled it. This lessened the extractor tension but left it still noticeably stronger then my Glock but I figured I could always shorten it some more if need be.
5. Thoroughly clean and lube all parts and reassemble and go test fire.
After doing the above detailing, I fired 100 rnds. of all the previously mentioned ammos starting with the CCI because I knew they worked and ending with the dreaded Fiocchi HP's that never once functioned prior to above detailing. I'm happy to report not one malfunction, the little gun ate everything I ran thru it...using 3 different magazines and all my cheap bullets. Next week I'll run another couple boxes thru it just to make sure. Then I will buy some higher end defensive loads and give them a try for when I'm serious and not plinking.Sorry this post is so long and has no pix but I did my best so I hope it helps someone else that may have similar issues. I'm just a plinker not a gunsmith so I hope I used all the right terminology also...Mark
Long story short, after 350+ rnds, many FTF and 2 dozen light strikes my 380 went back to Kahr where they polished the feed ramp and "updated" just about everything else. When asked, they recommended I use American made, brass cased, non reloads only. This is interesting because the only rnds. that fed flawlessly were CCI alloy cased fmj's.
After another 150 rnds. with NO more light strikes but many FTF and failures to completely go into battery, I decided it was time for me to investigate.
Before I go further, let me say that all my shooting was done with a mixture of inexpensive brand bullets, most fmj but some hp's and 3 different magazines. I used Magtech, PMC, CCI, Rem. UMC, Fiocchi and USAammo. CCI alloy's were the only rnds. to function flawlessly and this was my first clue as to the nature of my 380's problem. The Fiocchi HP's would never feed a single round and were the only bullet tested with that straight sided volcano shaped bullet.
I fully expect this little gun to function with cheaper rnds. as I like to shoot it a lot and with it's smooth trigger and sights and ergos you can shoot it all day like a .22, unless you're a woman as my girls found it very hard to pull the slide back due to the strong recoil springs. The Glock gives them no trouble.
My inspection of the Kahr compared to my Glock revealed that my Kahr isn't as well finished as the Glock and the rougher surfaces create to much drag for the slides inertia to overcome resulting in FTF's and failure to go completely into battery. However, the harder alloy case of the CCI rnds. allowed them to glide over rather than dig in like the brass cased rnds. I won't go into recoil spring wts. here as the fit and finish should be addressed first and in my case was all that was necessary...so far.
I addressed the following areas to correct my feed issues:
(note, start by completely disassembling pistol including slide, if you aren't capable of getting the pistol completely apart then you probably shouldn't be attempting this detailing as you may not get it back together, however, it's pretty basic once you've gotten in there.)
1. Polish out all machining scratches in 'top' of chamber, this is important because as the bullet tips from the feed ramp into the chamber the top leading edge of the case is pushed across the rough chamber roof...test this by pushing a rnd. in by hand at an angle before and after polishing and you will feel the difference. My Glock came glassy smooth as my Kahr is now. The feed ramp and its bottom chamber entry radius is good from Kahr but I polished it more...look at all these surfaces with a magnifying glass and you will see why more is needed in most cases.
2. Dress and polish the breech face, mostly below firing pin hole, radius & polish the leading edge of breech step on left side where rnd. base first meets this step...see Frankfuss's post of 6-06-12 for his post and pix of this step...thanks Frankfuss...this is important also as the overly strong extractor pushes the round against this left side step, more drag.
3. Extractor leading edge, radius and polish the leading edges where the bullet case first makes contact with extractor claw, try to push a case up and under the extractor while it's still assembled in slide and start the case at an angle to the breech just like when the shell is being stripped from the magazine. Do this and you will immediately see this point of contact and why a little radiusing here will help, both surfaces. This is actually the shells point of contact opposite the step we already radiused and polished in step 2 above. The sideward push (to left) by the extractor forces the case base against the breech step that we previously radiused and polished.
4. Extractor spring tension, this is probably the biggest improvement and compared to my Glock the Kahr easily took twice as much pressure to push a rnd. up and under the extractor. This didn't seem right to me. This is usually the spot where my gun would jam with the rnd. at an angle, leading edge jammed against the top of chamber and case back trying to slide under extractor. The extractor spring is sandwiched between the forward pin and a rear pin so I took the rear pin and ground .050" off it's length and reinstalled it. This lessened the extractor tension but left it still noticeably stronger then my Glock but I figured I could always shorten it some more if need be.
5. Thoroughly clean and lube all parts and reassemble and go test fire.
After doing the above detailing, I fired 100 rnds. of all the previously mentioned ammos starting with the CCI because I knew they worked and ending with the dreaded Fiocchi HP's that never once functioned prior to above detailing. I'm happy to report not one malfunction, the little gun ate everything I ran thru it...using 3 different magazines and all my cheap bullets. Next week I'll run another couple boxes thru it just to make sure. Then I will buy some higher end defensive loads and give them a try for when I'm serious and not plinking.Sorry this post is so long and has no pix but I did my best so I hope it helps someone else that may have similar issues. I'm just a plinker not a gunsmith so I hope I used all the right terminology also...Mark