Dropping Slide on Empty Chamber?

[Redstate]

Is there any harm to a Kahr by letting the slide slam forward using the slide release with magazine out of pistol and on an empty chamber?

[Bawanna]

I don't have a definitive answer for you so guys feel free to jump in here.

My thought is no it doesn't really hurt anything BUT I kind of use the comparison with the screen door on the back porch. I can slam it really hard probably a lot of times and it will be ok. But it will last a lot longer if I don't.

I don't think it's like a 1911 where dropping the slide on empty can make bad things happen but I just don't see the point, really nothing to gain.

I try to use snap caps even though dry firing isn't suppose to hurt a thing.

Treat your gun like a Queen and it will treat you like a King or at least maybe a Prince which if you had a Princess like Kate might not be a bad thing at all.

[CJB]

No.

There is a oft stated untrue tale about how bad that is for a pistol, but I'll take the time to elaborate.

At one time, after WWII, target shooting with the 1911 came to the forefront of pistol competition, and bullseye shooting was a lot more common than it is today. At that time, there were almost no "action shooting" events, with the only one I can think of being the proto-IPSC type event held in California. Bullseye was the game of the day, and light triggers, were the make and break of bullseye (as they still are). National match pistols require a 4 lb trigger, while 3 gun matches can have a 3.5lb trigger for a 45 caliber pistol. Getting a 3.5lb trigger on a 45 auto, that is crisp, creep free, and doesn't have hammer follow can be a chore. For that reason - following hammers - which tended to happen when dropping the slide on an empty chamber, and because when the hammer follows, it generally deforms the sear nose (where it contacts the half cock notch) it was ill advised to drop the slide on an empty chamber. Stories came about that dropping the slide - even on a 4 or 5 lb trigger pistol, was "hard on the sear" or "hard on the hammer". The whole mess got mangled in gun lore...

No. Its not bad to drop the slide on a Kahr, when the chamber is empty, nor any other pistol with a sensible trigger and no hammer following problem.

Bob Day (Bullseye Champion, USAF Pistolsmith) used to say, hold the hammer with your thumb whenever dropping the slide - chambered or not chambered, just in case of a following malfunction. Other gunsmiths would say pull the trigger before dropping the slide, thus engaging the disconnector, preventing following....

I'm more of the "just have a safe trigger and be done with it" school.

[CJB]

Damn Bwanna, you answered while I was composing, and cited the 1911 story... SEE, thats what I mean about lore coming into play...

Ok kids - extra point bonus question.

Why do the National Matches and Presidents Hundred match .45 auto loaders require a 4lb trigger, while 3-gun matches need only a 3.5lb trigger. Explain your answer!

[Redstate]

Thank you for your responses. I did contact Kahr this morning and was told that it would not hurt the Kahr to let the slide go by releasing the slide release with no magazine in the gun and with no round in the chamber.
In any event, I like your analogy, Bawanna. Why do it if you don't need to do so.
CJB, I like your tidbit of history.

[olympicmotorcars]

I just want to say its so refreshing to be a member of a forum full of such knowledgeable gun experts. I learn something every time I am on here. Bawanna, CBJ, Jocko, ( I could go on and on ). Everyone here has always been polite, to me, even when I ask stupid questions ( I am not implying this was a stupid question either ).

Thanks everybody.

[c6vetter]

I fully agree! There are some real good guys on this forum that know what they're talking about!

[beatlesfan]

I learn something new everyday! Thanks Bawanna and CJB.

[CJB]

Answer:

National Match and President's Hundred matches are shot with hardball loads, requiring a recoil spring that is full strength. A full strength spring makes the slide go forward faster (in addition to its regular job of slowing down the slide as it goes rearward). That faster forward slide will have the effect of creating a following hammer with a 1911 - thus the stronger trigger pull.

On bullseye 3gun matches, you can shoot the lightest load that will function in the pistol, and somewhat modified pistols are allowed. So you can shoot a 200g or 185g HG mold bullet with a very light charge of Bullseye or WW231 powder, and get those recoil springs down into the very light load range. Light spring, slower slide movement forward, less likely to follow, and thus lower trigger pulls allowed.

Off topic, but... when a 1911 follows its because the gun moves FORWARD as the slide goes into battery. When that happens, inertia makes the trigger stay put in space as the rest of the gun moves around it. The result is that the trigger is pulled as the gun goes into battery, and the hammer follows. Having a trigger made of lighter material (aluminum, or plastic) helps to a great degree, since a lighter part will tend to not have as much inertia. If you solidly mount the frame of a 1911 into a vice, the hammer will never follow. And, if you hold the frame very loosely, the hammer will tend to follow to a much greater extent. So, when testing a trigger, the "loose hold" method is employed. If the hammer holds when its held "loose", then you're good to go.

[Bawanna]

Thanks for the answer, it was way beyond me and now I'm a little smarter than I was awhile ago. Probably an IQ of 4 now but your helping and I appreciate it. Especially being a 1911 addict.

[jlottmc]

That reminds me, I need to tune my beloved Commander. I changed the recoil spring again, and now I have hammer follow when I use the slide stop. It stops at half c0ck, but still I don't like that. Also doesn't do it with a round in the pipe or when chambering a round. I did find that Wilson Combat recoil springs will work in a Kahr, which is why I changed the spring again in the first place, and since I am a huge fan of stiff springs, my P45 now has a 22lbs recoil spring, as does my Commander. The Commander spring that now resides in my P45 was a half a coil too short when I cut it to put it in (it was for a full size after all), and now I have a proper length spring for the Commander. That is why I felt not at all bad about further shortening the spring to put it in the P45. Just need to tune it a bit.

[muggsy]

It may not hurt a thing, but in a lot of gun stores you may be unceremoniously told to leave if you do. The same applies to dry firing. It's not considered a good practice.