No Rapid Fire?

[BimmerBob]

So the range I just went to has a rule, no rapid fire or double-taps. They require at least a full second between shots. From what I gather, this is more or less a universal rule among ranges.

But why? In my experience at military ranges, doing CQB (close quarters battle) exercises, rapid fire is more or less required. Now, I understand that civilian ranges are necessarily different - but it seems like doing double-taps with a pistol (or even semi-auto rifle) is really no big deal. Totally controllable by any shooter with even a semblance of experience. I mean, it's not like you're spraying downrange with a machine gun (which, by the way, is also utterly controllable).

What gives? How are we supposed to practice realistic shooting scenarios which almost universally would require rapid acquisition of a target or targets in quick succession?

Mind you, I don't style myself some sort of shooting ace, but I do think I can handle practicing double-taps safely...

[Scoundrel]

Libertarian answer:
Because they're a bunch of assholes that don't want anyone else to have fun but you can bet your ass they do it themselves when the range is closed!

Devil's advocate answer:
They can't gauge the skill level of the average Joe that enters the place, don't have the manpower to watch everyone all of the time and therefore can't guarantee the safety of other range patrons, so they ban it outright because it's easier to enforce/regulate that way.

Practical answer:
A lot of folks who go to public ranges can't handle the weapon well enough to keep rapid fire under control, and even if nobody gets hurt, it's expensive to keep replacing the target hangers, cables, light bulbs and fixtures, ceiling tiles, etc.

The range that I go to is a little more flexible about it. If you go to the counter and ask them first, and they recognize you as a regular who hasn't been a troublemaker, they'll give you the green light, along with a disclaimer (as long as you can keep it on the paper). I have not asked them when the place was hopping busy and full of people, only when I've been nearly alone in the booth.

That being said, I have not been back to the range since they denied me when I asked to use that special trigger/stock mod that makes a standard AR-15 go as good as full auto. I've since sold that thing (too expensive on ammo consumption) but I've just been a bit reluctant to go back there. When I do, and they ask me where I've been, I'll tell them that's why it's been so long.

[BimmerBob]

Libertarian answer:
Because they're a bunch of assholes that don't want anyone else to have fun but you can bet your ass they do it themselves when the range is closed!

Devil's advocate answer:
They can't gauge the skill level of the average Joe that enters the place, don't have the manpower to watch everyone all of the time and therefore can't guarantee the safety of other range patrons, so they ban it outright because it's easier to enforce/regulate that way.

Practical answer:
A lot of folks who go to public ranges can't handle the weapon well enough to keep rapid fire under control, and even if nobody gets hurt, it's expensive to keep replacing the target hangers, cables, light bulbs and fixtures, ceiling tiles, etc.

The range that I go to is a little more flexible about it. If you go to the counter and ask them first, and they recognize you as a regular who hasn't been a troublemaker, they'll give you the green light, along with a disclaimer (as long as you can keep it on the paper). I have not asked them when the place was hopping busy and full of people, only when I've been nearly alone in the booth.

That being said, I have not been back to the range since they denied me when I asked to use that special trigger/stock mod that makes a standard AR-15 go as good as full auto. I've since sold that thing (too expensive on ammo consumption) but I've just been a bit reluctant to go back there. When I do, and they ask me where I've been, I'll tell them that's why it's been so long.

Thanks for the feedback. I do understand the "devil's advocate" answer, but I was at an outdoor pistol range on the city outskirts, and I frankly don't see what could go wrong in that scenario. It would seem exceedingly difficult to let a semiauto pistol get away from you whilst executing a double-tap, but I guess I underestimate the idiots among us.

[Scoundrel]

Thanks for the feedback. I do understand the "devil's advocate" answer, but I was at an outdoor pistol range on the city outskirts, and I frankly don't see what could go wrong in that scenario. It would seem exceedingly difficult to let a semiauto pistol get away from you whilst executing a double-tap, but I guess I underestimate the idiots among us.

Then there are the ranges that are just uptight. There's one very close to my house that I checked out (without shooting) but have NOT patronized because their rule list is as long as my arm, the range masters are complete jackasses, and they seem to enjoy being as restrictive as possible. In the 3 minutes I spent talking to the range master, I wanted to punch him in the nose twice. I did learn why they are that way, though. It keeps the "young punks" who want to "just screw around" away from their range.

I didn't tell him that it also keeps away the responsible 40-somethings who want to relax and not constantly be in fear of being yelled at while experimenting and learning about new gun, accessory, and ammo combinations close to their homes. He wouldn't have listened/cared, and it would have been "strike 3" on the nose-punching urges.

[Barth]

The ranges I frequent don't allow rapid fire.
It's mostly CYA.
I agree that if you're a regular, they know your skill level and you ask first;
usually some limited double taps are allowed.

I've actually had some other shooters complain to the range officer that my double taps made them uncomfortable.
And was asked to stop on their account.
I left and haven't been back.
Lots of newbies shooting that get spooked easily.
And want a be operators trying to show off.

These days I go to the range during the week.
Right when the range opens.
So I'm basically nearly alone.

[MW surveyor]

Range closest to me is the same. No double taps, no rapid fire.

However, one day of the week is "geezer day" (reduced price) and that's the day that I usually go. Be the first to check in at 0900 and likely to have the pistol range to yourself. Talk to the RO (usually a young guy) tell him that I'd like to shoot a few double taps or rapid fire and it's usually no problem. I just don't make a steady diet of it so that his boss gets bent out of shape.

[mser]

One of the local indoor ranges I frequent had a rule of one shot per second, not allowing double taps or rapid fire. They would make an announcement over their public address system reminding everyone of the rule if a shooter started to get out of hand. Now they're apparently allowing long guns with bump fire capability. Saw a guy go through a case of .223 in less time than it took me to go through 200 rounds of 9MM. Now when I go in, I double or triple tap without concern.

[Longitude Zero]

Practical answer:
A lot of folks who go to public ranges can't handle the weapon well enough to keep rapid fire under control, and even if nobody gets hurt, it's expensive to keep replacing the target hangers, cables, light bulbs and fixtures, ceiling tiles, etc.

At my home range if you have an established reputation for caution then you can get the okay on a time by time basis. They however will ban you for life if you try those AR triggers that make them almost full auto. Also if you try to "bump fire" any weapon it is goodbye forever.

I agree on bump firing as that is just stupid and serves no useful purpose.

They have full auto Saturdays every couple of months and on those days there is a RSO for each and every shooter on the line. You also sign a waiver accepting full financial resonsibility for any and all damage caused by your firing. It also endeminifes the range and other shooters.

[340pd]

At the range I work at it becomes a floor/ceiling issue. We have our customers mount their targets on the backer board at shoulder height. We have a couple of lanes that are 150'. We will put our more experienced shooters there. Rapid fire is a subjective thing. Firing speed is monitored by the RSO's. We really leave it to their discretion.

[Planedude]

The nearly new range I was shooting at last Saturday had ALOT of bullet strikes in the ceiling tiles as close as three foot from the stall bench. The target carrier on two lanes I saw had been hit near the cable interface. The sidewalls were pock marked with strikes down its entire length. This was a fifteen yard indoor pistol range that opened new on Febuary 1st this year.
You never know whos coming through the door, but the range is still liable for their actions. Hence silly rules that dive experianced shooters nutts.
I was hit by a ricocheting jacket on a short indoor pistiol range several years ago. A young Hispanic male was in "stall one" next to the wall (to his left) and he decided to start shooting his "wonder-nine" rapid fire, all hollywood gangster like. I figure he must of had his eyes closed as he struck the side wall several times making sparks. The jacket from one of his bouncing-betty shells hit me in my right big toe thru my shoe and yes it hurt! I started yelling at the guy and he got all puffed up and tough at the old "white-boy" (his words) who was daring to tell him to stop. When six other (armed) "white-boys" stepped out of their stall in agreement with me, he got smart and out of dodge. My foot hurt for days, heck of a bruise in a heck of a place.
That range has a "no rapid fire" rule also, but they let me double tap as long as I keep it short and under control.
If the range guys know you and they know your safe, you can usally get a rules slide if its not busy and packed.

[Bill K]

I don't know what the problem is, I allow it on my backyard range. :behindsofa:

[skiflydive]

The only rule regarding this at the range I belong to is no mag dumping. Doubles, triples...OK. It's an outdoor gun club range but there are homes within 1/4 mile or so and they don't want to PO the neighbors.

On a different note, the club allows LEO's free access to the ranges any time they want. That's pretty cool.

[Barth]

I don't know what the problem is, I allow it on my backyard range. :behindsofa:

It's funny to me,
as my friends (yes a have a couple) and I had free access to private property with a berm.
We used to go shooting regularly, maybe twice a month.
Although we could rapid fire at will, that was rarely done.

[Sage]

Sorry guys. It's my fault. About six months ago at my indoor range I managed to hit and break the crossbar that you hang targets from. I was slow firing my Sig P220 from only 15yds. I still don't know how that round got away from me. Really embarrassing.

[mbaza3]

I belong to a private club and there are no rules against rapid fire. The range is outdoors and the backstops are 40 ft high dirt mounds so there is hardly any chance of shots getting loose unless you are negligent.

[7shot]

My local indoor range does not allow rapid fire but does allow double taps with a second or two intervals. I can live with that... On rapid fire it boils down to nothing more than safety. Hopefully anyone wanting to rapid fire can find a private defensive pistol class or better yet an outdoor range near by that allows this type of shooting. The closest outdoor range that allows this shooting for me is about an hour away, not bad.

[muggsy]

Double taps and rapid fire can be very disconcerting to bullseye shooters. Safety is another concern. A squib load missed during a double tap can turn your handgun into a hand grenade. Happened to me once.

[Longitude Zero]

A squib load missed during a double tap can turn your handgun into a hand grenade. Happened to me once.

This occurred to a friend years ago at requal. It did not completely detonate but it was impressive.

[MW surveyor]

Here you go:w00t:

[Wolffire99]

In order for ranges to receive the discounted liability plan through the NRA or the NSSF they have to abide by certain rules, that being one.

[Longitude Zero]

In order for ranges to receive the discounted liability plan through the NRA or the NSSF they have to abide by certain rules, that being one.

Very true. A lot of uneducated shooters feel it is the local owners doing it when in reality it is the insurance carriers driving the boat.

[BimmerBob]

In order for ranges to receive the discounted liability plan through the NRA or the NSSF they have to abide by certain rules, that being one.

Ah, something I hadn't even considered, although it makes perfect sense.

[JFootin]

In order for ranges to receive the discounted liability plan through the NRA or the NSSF they have to abide by certain rules, that being one.

Yeah, I was thinking insurance adjusters had a hand in this. I wanted to get apartment insurance with the company I have my car insurance with. I had a mongrel mix dog with long, think reddish blonde hair similar to a Chow, but the tongue and shape of the skull and jaw showed she was not a Chow. As soon as the adjuster that was eavesdropping on the conversation heard "Chow", he denied coverage because of their unpleasant behavior toward strangers. I tried to explain that I was just using that for illustrative purposes regarding her coat. But NO GO!