I'm a little concerned

[SC_Dave]

This is my first post and it is NOT malicious. I do not want to offend anyone here. I have been shooting for around 30 years and have a fair amount of experience. I just bought my Kahr, a CM9. I really appreciate ALL of the mods, tutorials and fixes that everyone took so much time to share and post. They really do help a lot. I love the size and weight of my CM but I am having some second thoughts.

To my point. Does anyone else find it disturbing that one must make several modifications to a new gun to make it run correctly? Making sure springs aren't in backwards, cleaning a new gun that just came from the factory, polishing the feed ramp, premature mag drop, reducing the follower profile to prevent nose dive etc. Is it just me or do others think this is excessive when considering the price point of the Kahr?

Sincerly, David

[JERRY]

it would not be to Kahr's advantage to make an econo gun that is no better than a kel-tek, needing kitchen table gunsmithing to make it run right.

im leary of econo guns from otherwise top companies.

[HD Springer]

I also have a cm9, and cleaning a gun before you shoot it sounds like a good idea to me no matter what brand. I have had none of the issues of which you speek. I,m about 400 rds into mine including about 6 different makers from target to self defense ammo including 115,124,&147 gr. No prob. Lucky I guess?

[OldLincoln]

David, you are not the first to ask this question, and it is a good one. Kahr is a good gun in design and mostly in manufacture although they do lack the corresponding quality control. I can say they are not alone as far as manufacturers go but that isn't an answer. The tips and how to's offered here are to avoid sending it back as it's very often some minor fail that can be easily corrected.

Kahr recently changed out the customer service manager and we are holding the faith that it will work upstream to the assembly plant to head off the nuisance issues often found here. Also keep in mind Kahr sells an awful lot of guns and their return rate is said to be very good.

[SC_Dave]

Thanks OL, I hope with more rounds comes more confidence. I really want to achive that because I really like this little gun.

It is also very important to me that I offend no one, especially the good folks that take the time to put up the tutrials that help us all.

I have not experienced all of the glitches I mentioned in my post but I have experienced some of them. I used the well written fixes posted here to prevent just what you mentioned OL, sending it back. My next trip to the range will tell a lot I hope. I really want total confidence. ;)
David

[JFootin]

Does anyone else find it disturbing that one must make several modifications to a new gun to make it run correctly? Making sure springs aren't in backwards, cleaning a new gun that just came from the factory, polishing the feed ramp, premature mag drop, reducing the follower profile to prevent nose dive etc.

Nobody said you must do these things. They are suggestions. Like other quality manufacturers, almost all of these guns work fine right out of the box. Though I would certainly field strip, inspect, clean and lube any new gun before taking it to the range. As our old sage, Jocko, says, "If it ain't broke, dont fix it!" The fact that we have some easy fixes here for problems that are seen at times is because we are a brand forum, no bad reflection on the brand. Are other brands completely without flaw? No. Kimbers often need another brand of mags to work reliably, and afer 500 breakin rounds, they'll tell you to do another 500 if you're having problems. Gen 4 Glocks are having problems. Hey. Facts of life with any gun. You can go spend $900 on a HK and probably get reliable functioning. But you won't find any HK near the size of one of these Kahrs, and if you did, they would have more issues. Other manufacturers of tiny guns even specify what brand of ammo to use. Others have wierd designs where you can get in trouble just field stripping or assembling the gun, or dry firing it. These little Kahrs are great guns that you cannot wear out, as Jocko can testify with well over 32,000 rounds through his PM9. And, BTW, he has never had to do any of those mods to his gun. The guns just get smoother and sweeter with rounds through them.

BTW, welcome to the forum! Good luck with your gun. I know I love mine! :D

[chrish]

I have only been here a relatively short time compared to some of the folks. I lurked for a number of years and was a Kahr owner prior to joining here. The lurking and this forum was the reason I ultimately decided on Kahr. I don't think, given how you approached it, that ANYONE here that I've seen over the last couple of years would take issue w/ your tone or consider it offensive. It's just an observation, and as OldLincoln said, has been asked and discussed before. The topic has merit. About the only time I've seen these guys and gals here take issue w/ a post or member is when it borders on the absurd or it's obvious that it's just a flame/rant by someone that came here w/ the sole purpose to bash Kahr. Coming here to gripe a bit, blow off steam, and get some help is a totally different situation and I can't see any of the personalities here faulting you for that.

Get into a political or religious discussion here though, all bets are off :)

Back to your topic. I have to agree w/ your assessment. I've wondered the same thing. I'm one of the lucky ones though. Both my PM9 and P9 came home, got a quick once over (not even a full cleaning), mostly a wipe down. Straight to the range and 100s of rounds w/ no issue. Before I really dug deep here, I thought my PM had issues w/ dropping mags, back to the factory, they polished and sent it all back...end of story there. I knew up front they were built to tigher tolerances (IMO) than a Glock or comparable CCW pistol, but that didn't seem to effect my usage. Others have obviously had a different experience. Since the PM/P purchase, I've picked up a TP9 earlier this year, same story, perfect. It's run flawless since I bought it. So, I guess I'm just lucky in that respect.

But, my personal thought, all the 'mods and fixes' are just to speed the break in period and break in rounds. If you did nothing, knowing it needed to be broken in by shooting it tons, and just stayed the course...I think you'd get to the same point, a reliable wonderful weapon. But folks get into a Kahr, it doesn't run like their Glock out of the box, and they question it. Perfectly natural. And I agree, not sure what I think about that. Why can't Kahr make it more 'flawless' out of the box. Can't answer that. But it also seems to be a consistency thing. There are plenty of folks like me w/ K, P, and C models with nary a trouble since the first round, even w/ no prep work. Others not so much.

Keep shooting it and make your decision after a few hundred rounds, or even 1000 rounds if you can afford to wait. No doubt about it, a Kahr is more comfortable to carry than almost anything out there. Yes, some companies are 'single stacking' now that they've seen there is a market screaming for 'thin and lite'. But for me, it's gonna be a Kahr filling that need...no question.

[SC_Dave]

Thanks chrish, what you say makes sense to me. I am going to give the CM more than fair chance before I decide. I guess with reading all the mods and fixes after having some of the glitches at the range myself I began to wonder. I don't want to make a knee jerk reaction which is why I posted, to get some feedback.

I polished the feed ramp. Reduced the profile of the right side of the follower where it was catching on the mag catch. I also worked on the top of the follower as shown in gb6491's post to hopefully help with nose dive causing a FTF. I also cleaned it completely, then lubricated it properly as per Kahr's lube chart. I did use some TW25 on a few locations. I did blow out some oil from the striker channel but that would not have caused any of the issues I experienced. In all, as I mentioned, I hope my next range trip will be a little more satisfying.
David

[downtownv]

IMO New Kahrs are stubborn lil bastards but like a wild horse they break in extremely well!

[otium]

My cm9 has had only one issue since new and it was not an issue that made it non-functional or the like, but gave it kind of a funny new look. Otherwise it has actually worked like a champ.

The issue was that little round nut on the front of the guide rod worked loose the second time out with it. I noticed it while swapping mags and just tightened back up.

In hind sight, I should have applied locktite to the nut when I was cleaning it up after this first time when it happened, but I didn't. The next time out the nut got loose again, but this it got loose enough to go flying off.

Luckily I found it hiding under a yucca plant (ouch!) a ways up in front of me. I applied blue locktite to it when I got home that time and it has stayed put ever since.

[JERRY]

if i wanted to fluff and buff my gun before shooting it to make it reliable id have spent $250.00 on a kel-tek.

[jocko]

Nobody said you must do these things. They are suggestions. Like other quality manufacturers, almost all of these guns work fine right out of the box. Though I would certainly field strip, inspect, clean and lube any new gun before taking it to the range. As our old sage, Jocko, says, "If it ain't broke, dont fix it!" The fact that we have some easy fixes here for problems that are seen at times is because we are a brand forum, no bad reflection on the brand. Are other brands completely without flaw? No. Kimbers often need another brand of mags to work reliably, and afer 500 breakin rounds, they'll tell you to do another 500 if you're having problems. Gen 4 Glocks are having problems. Hey. Facts of life with any gun. You can go spend $900 on a HK and probably get reliable functioning. But you won't find any HK near the size of one of these Kahrs, and if you did, they would have more issues. Other manufacturers of tiny guns even specify what brand of ammo to use. Others have wierd designs where you can get in trouble just field stripping or assembling the gun, or dry firing it. These little Kahrs are great guns that you cannot wear out, as Jocko can testify with well over 32,000 rounds through his PM9. And, BTW, he has never had to do any of those mods to his gun. The guns just get smoother and sweeter with rounds through them.

BTW, welcome to the forum! Good luck with your gun. I know I love mine! :D

u it the nail right on thge head, they are suggestions, not mandates. U don't have to do jack sh!it. take it out of the box and shoot it like u stole it and then if by chance it acts up, u might consider some of the SUGGESTIONS. Nothing set in holy grail that says u have to do anything.

We have seen a few magazinhes with the mag spring in backwards and issues came from it, so why not suggest one to check it out. Not rocket science and to me would be stupid as hell to send back a gun that merely had the mag spring in wrong.(kahrs mags come fully assembly to kahr) I am sure it has happened to but these forum members bring forth some darn good suggestions to at least pre check before shooting the weapon, BE IT ANY WEAPON.

[jocko]

if i wanted to fluff and buff my gun before shooting it to make it reliable id have spent $250.00 on a kel-tek.

it was not necessary to fluff and buff the kel tek, they worked fine, some though with a slight fluff and buff to them seemed to bring about great results, so again why not???It saves time, whether we think kahr or kel tek should have done it is immaterial. u now have the gun and u can take a few minutes to make it better or box it up and send it back and wait a month to get it back.

[jocko]

My cm9 has had only one issue since new and it was not an issue that made it non-functional or the like, but gave it kind of a funny new look. Otherwise it has actually worked like a champ.

The issue was that little round nut on the front of the guide rod worked loose the second time out with it. I noticed it while swapping mags and just tightened back up.

In hind sight, I should have applied locktite to the nut when I was cleaning it up after this first time when it happened, but I didn't. The next time out the nut got loose again, but this it got loose enough to go flying off.

Luckily I found it hiding under a yucca plant (ouch!) a ways up in front of me. I applied blue locktite to it when I got home that time and it has stayed put ever since.

here for kahr but kahrs recoiil assemblys them fully assembled and the vendor (maker) is supposed to have locktited that little nut. 99.995% are locktited, but some slip through. Kahr has no way of knowing that until it happens. Ur lucky u found the nuyt, most do not but kahr every time has send a complete new replacement assembly when called and the issues is explained to them. When people are involved sh!t is gonna happen. who knows maybe the fella who was supposed to put locktite on that nut when it came down the assembly line just got a phone call from his wife telling him she is running away with the milk man.:D Just sayin

[SC_Dave]

WOW! :confused:

[CrabbyAzz]

The only problem with my cm9 is it keeps getting better and I'm running out of money feeding it ammo.

[JFootin]

The only problem with my cm9 is it keeps getting better and I'm running out of money feeding it ammo.

Exactamundo! :D

[itsthelaw]

OP...It is a great question, and you will not offend this crowd. As JFootin said, these are just suggestions. I own 2 CM9s and believe that they are the most reliable small Kahrs. I cleaned both of mine and took them to the range. In 1000 rounds between them, I have not had a mis-ANYTHING. The best thing is that they keep shooting better and better. In the event that you would have a problem with any Kahr that you own, this crowd is full of guys who can help you. Don't be afraid to ask the tough questions, but don't be afraid to ask if you need help. Once you learn to decifer Jocko-ese, this place is full of great info. Welcome to the land of :D!

[Shark1007]

My analysis comes down to this: you either get a really good one or a bad one. Most often a good one and if you get a bad one, they will make it right.

My CM9 was perfect, accurate, concealable, controllable... so perfect that my wife seized it as hers after a range trip. My second one was the same.

My CW45 had issues, several. They fixed it and it is 100% reliable. My first PM45 is headed back to the mother ship as we speak for the third time. My second PM45 has a few issues, but still breaking in.

My P40 Covert is perfect.... heavy, but perfect.

You can't beat these little guys for size, accuracy and function when perfect. My latest PM45 blew the face out on a small target at 21 feet and a guy walked by and said "you did that with that little gun?"

Give yours a little time.

[rcarroll46]

Good questions SC_Dave. I think many of us have shared your thoughts. My PM45 wouldn't fire a single round out of the box. Talk about a disappointment. I went straight from the LGS to the range with 250 rounds and a smile from ear to ear. I loaded her up and as I go to squeeze off the 1st round, the trigger is slack. What the heck??? I try a few tricks and no reset. The range owner looks at it and can't get it to reset either. As you probably know, you can't even field strip it if the trigger won't reset.

So back to the LGS it goes, only to be told they have to send it back and I'll just need to sit tight and wait for it to get fixed. I talk to the manager, the manager's boss, I call the corporate office, and email the CEO and Chairman of the Board, only to hear the same thing. They tell me that until they hear back from Kahr, they can't do anything. It turns out that one of the "experts" at the store suspected that the gun was possibly disassembled and reassembled improperly after it left the store. When I heard that, I was fit to be tied... I am one that also subscribes to Jocko's rule, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." So mine went from the store to the range with no prep or anything else.

After 3 weeks of waiting, I spoke with Kahr customer service and they confirmed there were a few problems with the gun. I called the GM at the LGS and told him to give Kahr a call, confirm that the gun was defective, and get me a NEW one ASAP, as I didn't spend $650 to wait 4 weeks to finally own a fixed defective gun. He agreed and he replaced it with a new one that has been perfect ever since.

I was extremely frustrated with both Kahr and the LGS, but that frustration quickly faded as I started shooting the new one. It has been flawless to this point, and it is a very comfortable to both carry and shoot. I am looking at the PM9 and PM40 now, and will likely go with the PM40 for the extra knockdown power. For me it's all about the maximum firepower with the smallest frame, and Kahr is really the only manufacturer on the market that accomplished this task. I hope to go another 40 years and never use it for anything other than practice, but God forbid I need it for the reason I carry it, I want to know I have as much firepower in my favor as possible. I hear people on the forum complain about the recoil of the 40 and 45, but to me, the recoil is very manageable. And besides, most people buying Kahrs aren't buying them for target shooting. They're buying them for concealed carry and just enough target shooting to maintain proficiency. So if you want a target pistol, there are many more comfortable ones to choose from. But if you want a 45 that can hide in your waistband or a 40 that disappears in your pocket, then only a Kahr can foot that bill.

Could their quality control have been better, of course. Hopefully their recent changes and the new guy in charge of customer service will address that. However, in the end I got what I was looking for, and that's what's most important to me.

[yqtszhj]

Some of us are just gun fanatics (well me anyway)


IMO New Kahrs are stubborn lil bastards but like a wild horse they break in extremely well!

And like Downtown said, this is true too. They are tight precision machines and break in well.

[jocko]

My new Porsche broke down with 600 miles. Was I unhappy, you betcha, but being in the automotive business for over 40 years, I know it can happen. When It happened tome of course I was very unhappy. Did Porsche make it right, ???U betcha and then sent me a check for $600 for my inconvenience. these companies don't like it any better than we do but it is just gonna happen. If you have issues with your kahr certainly ur gonna hammer quality control over it.

rcarroll46. IMO ur gun store owner certainly treated ur right to buy getting u a new gun, for they are really under no legal obligation to do so, buy him a bud the next time u see him. Thats what good dealers be they gun, car, tv or otherwise do, they sometimes have to grab into their pockets to take care of a customer.

also very nice to see the ffrustration has cerased to. Mine with my Porsche ceased to and a week later I was stopped at 7 a.m in the morning doing 132 MPH on a back road that no one ever travels but this state cop did. And to my good good fortune, the officer and I had just road our bikes a week earlier toa nice out o fthe way hamburger place with 3 other state boys. so, yes I got off and we both had a good laugh,....Oh yes I will buy him a bud any time he wants one to. Some days life is good and other days life is even better than GOOD. Just sayin

[Krusty]

I totally agree with SC Dave's posting,I have to add to that that it takes Kahr (sometimes) numerous attempts to get it right, a lot of hassle for the owner of the gun.