XDS versus PM45

[Shark1007]

Well, even after reading all the criticism of the XDS, I grabbed one cheap.

I field stripped her and found the internals looked like the product of high quality control. She was well lubed from the factory, but I cleaned the test residue and lubed with Tetra, the white stuff that looks a little like, nevermind.

I shot about 250 rounds, which was a pain since I only had the 5 round mags. Luckily I had the Uplula speed loader!

She fired couple hundred rounds of three types of ball, not one issue. I fired WWB cheap hollow points, HST's and Ranger T's. Not one single issue of any type.

It shoots as well as my PM45, and, dare I say, maybe a little more instinctive to point and about the same accuracy. I found at 25 yards, shots were in about a 6 inch group when fired at a reasonable rate of combat type speed.

To compare the two, the slides looked about the same, quality control wise. The frame on the XDS looked sturdier and didn't have the "shavings
we see as the frame wears in on the PM45. My PM45's have had a few issues with feeding and function, but the factory is very cooperative with repairs. The trigger on the PM45 seemed a little better, but just a tiny bit.

I think the recoil was maybe 10% less on the Springfield, just an impression from the gut. I liked the Springfield sights a lot better. Magazines are an issue, availability wise and the Springfield has an all to familiar isuue/complaint regarding the 7 round mag. just like the Kahr.

My plan is to order the Laserlyte rear sight, having had a good experience with one on a Glock and make this little guy in the rotation with the PM45 when Kahr gets it right.

Overall, I have a greater confidence level in the XDS from this experience. I understand they are sensitive to the striker channel being cleaned out well. My issue with the Kahr, which I think has the capability of being a better gun, is, with the expense of ammo these days, it takes a hundred bucks to validate every repair and try to re establish an appropriate confidence level.

The Springfield, of course, had a 1911 style grip safety and it rides perfectly in a Bullard gunleather holster for a Glock 19, it rides a little deep and that's fine with me. I have the PJ holster for the PM45 and have one ordered for the Springfield.


On the holster issue, both guns have a virtually identical size with the Springer looking 1/8 inch longer or so. The both fit in the Bullard bodyguard Glock 19 holster with the FBI cant (owb). I did generously apply Fiebings Tan Kote with a toothbrush inside on the raw leather and outside on the finished product. It seemed to give the holster a little more solid feel in addition to the waterproofing, etc.

All in all, I know this is a Kahr forum, but the little XDS might be a good alternative. I paid 525 new.

[Ljutic]

The Springer, of course, has one less round.



Just recently started working with a loaner PM45 and now own an XDs. The PM45 mag in my loaner is a 5 round which is the same as the XDs. Is there a PM45 6 round mag available?

Have not shot the PM45 much but I can say I 100% agree with the XDs over the PM45 comments you made. So much easier to shoot the XDs. I drop the PM45 mag mid string most of the time when it contacts my thumb.

[Shark1007]

My mistake, friend. I was confusing .45's. The capacity is the same.

[gb6491]

Nice report on your XD-S Shark107. I enjoyed the comparison to the PM45 as I don't have one (PM45).
I do have an XD-S and like it a lot (right on par with my CW45:)).
I've somewhat come to terms with the right rear frame rail being useless when the pistol is in battery because it has not caused a single issue to date (I've about 700 round through it).
That it won't feed Hornady XTP is not an issue because I won't use them in it.
I didn't like that the LCI intruded into the sight picture, but that was remedied by taking a little material off the part of it that contacts the case rim.
I like that it's slide is thinner than the one on my CW45.
I find it's trigger is (IMO) better that that which was on the M&P Shield I used to own. In fact, I think it's trigger (after a slight amount of polishing) is almost as good as the one on my CW45.
I like the fiber optic sight, but wonder if I will miss it whenever night sights become available (do you know of any?).
I like that I can shoot it accurately. I find I shoot it about as well as my CW45 out to 10/15 yards (for me, from that point on, the bigger gun pulls away).
I do prefer the larger of the two grip straps as I found it torqued in my hand much more with the thinner one installed. I find that a little odd because my CW45 with a shorter front to rear grip does not seem to torque any where as bad and seems a touch more docile under recoil. Oh well, felt recoil is such a subjective thing.
I may get a small kydex mag holder as the the mag catch windows on the XD-S magazines scrape the inside of my leather pouches making them a little more difficult to extract than I like.
I think the ambi mag catch is well done on the XD-S.
I like the accessories that come with XD-S (though I haven't used them much).
The XD-s fits great in the FIST holster for my Glock 27.
Again, thanks for the XD-S/PM45 comparison. Could you possibly post some comparison photos? If you like, I have some with the CW45.
Regards,
Greg

[bonjorno2]

sold my pm45 for an xds... Never thought I would do it, but I did.

[gb6491]

sold my pm45 for an xds... Never thought I would do it, but I did.
I wondered if the same would happen with my CW45, but after having had both for awhile, they are both staying. The XD-S is good, with it's thinness being it's biggest draw for me. That extra round and that I shoot it better at longer ranges makes the CW45 a keeper for me. If I could only keep one, it would probably be the CW45, but, fortunately, that's not the case:D
Regards,
Greg

[itsthelaw]

I always thought bore axis on XD Sringers felt high/odd. How is the XDs?

[bonjorno2]

I wondered if the same would happen with my CW45, but after having had both for awhile, they are both staying. The XD-S is good, with it's thinness being it's biggest draw for me. That extra round and that I shoot it better at longer ranges makes the CW45 a keeper for me. If I could only keep one, it would probably be the CW45, but, fortunately, that's not the case:D
Regards,
Greg

I sense a cm45 in your future! lol

[Shark1007]

You know, I have no issue with the feel of the gun. I have a couple other Springfields and feel they point naturally and shoot great. My eyeball says the XDS is a little thinner than the Kahr PM45. The first five shots I fired at a small sihlloutte at 10 yards were all head shots with one being a right ear shot. I'm no Wyatt Earp, but a decent shot.

I traded some stuff for an XD Tactical in .45GAP since I have a Glock in .45GAP and I like it a lot, it will become my nightstand gun. I like it because it's got a smaller grip similar to 9mm and my wife can hold it more securely.

My criteria is sort of what a pistol does when you point shoot, not really looking at the sights. The XDS impressed me.

[Maverick64]

have a PM9, was considering trading in for a PM45, but now I see that this XDS is out...............still a big fan of Kahr's triggers.....any thoughts?

[bonjorno2]

keep that pm9 as it is the best without a doubt pocket 9 on the market for price and size. The xds will be a nice addition but a tad too big to pocket carry for most people.

[340pd]

Well done reports guys. Very helpful.

[jeepster09]

To stir the pot......I prefer my S&W 40 Shield to both the PM45 and the XDs. In my opinion it is more comfortable to hold and shoot....ya I know, it isn't a 45, but it's a sacrafice I am willing to make. My PM40 is my "pocket gun" my Shield is my "IWB" gun.:target:

[Maverick64]

keep that pm9 as it is the best without a doubt pocket 9 on the market for price and size. The xds will be a nice addition but a tad too big to pocket carry for most people.

thats what I am leaning to..........thanks for input................

[bonjorno2]

good, you won't regret it, i've made that mistake before and you will regret it... snag a xds when you can and you will be happy!

[Harleyrider]

I've been trying to decide whether to get an XD-S or wait til the CM45 comes out. This thread is really helping me decide --- thank you, all! BTW, it's really refreshing reading a thread in a Kahr forum that favors a competing product. That's integrity.

As to the comments that the PM9 is a great pocket 9, all I can say is you guys must have bigger pockets than I do. I have a CM9 and almost always have to holster it, using my .380's as pocket guns. Then again, I wear fairly close-fitting jeans probably 90% of the time, so maybe that explains it. Anyway, great thread. Any updates or further thoughts?

[itsthelaw]

Harleyrider... I am with you on the pocket carry thing. I even have trouble with a P380 in my front pocket and have tried everything other than Kydex. It probably just comes down to not liking to have much in your pockets and/or pant style. I'm not wearing "skinny jeans"! Ha.

[Bawanna]

I'm not the least bit warm to pocket carry. No way, no how, ain't gonna happen. In my tiny little mind it's not even a viable option. Thank goodness the world could care less about my tiny little minds opinions.

[otium]

No pocket carry for me and my xds or cw45.

I typically go with a dual clip hybrid and sometimes a one piece single clip kydex holster for short duration carry time. At the size of the xds or cw45, they probably do not need a dual clip, but this hybrid holster style for me is super stable and comfortable.

Might still chose to pocket carry occasionally with a cm9 or more likely a j-frame when I am out and about on a super hot summer day in light clothing, but it is a more rare method of carry for me.

[jocko]

I'm not the least bit warm to pocket carry. No way, no how, ain't gonna happen. In my tiny little mind it's not even a viable option. Thank goodness the world could care less about my tiny little minds opinions.

situaton IMO is different to.I have always said pocket carry is not a fast draw areafor sure, but it is also a not a special dress thing either.Those little kahrs,expecially the 380's like kahr and Ruger make are made to be pocket carried. The PM 9's are IMO certainlyt pocketable, the 45's as small as they are IMO areprobably a tad to big,but who wants to carry a 45 anyways. Just sayin:eek:

[Bill K]

Mostly pocket carry a PM9. If you're going to belt carry my feeling is to go a bit bigger than the PM45 or XDS. Here is an article that kinda argues my way of thinking... http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/springfield-xds-vs-xdm-45-compact-range-report/

[hardluk1]

harleyrider For what its worth the CW series is just a bit smaller than the shield. The cm pm are quit a bit smaller. Difference pistols for different needs.

[ScottieG59]

Recently, I compared the XDs and the PM45. Both seemed fine , but I can actually pocket carry this XDs.

If I am going to carry IWB, I can easily conceal my Glock 19 or 27.

My common pocket carry gun is a Kahr PM9. It is an amazing little gun.

The XDs does not detail strip like a Kahr or Glock. There are a couple roll pins in the XDs slide. Fortunately, it it very easy to remove and clean the striker and striker channel on the XDs. It involves dealing with roll pins to go further. It is still easy to clean.

The Kahr allows easier access to parts and is very Glocklike.

The other thing is that the PM45 has a track record. People know what to expect and that may help.

[cloud]

The XDs does not detail strip like a Kahr or Glock. There are a couple roll pins in the XDs slide. Fortunately, it it very easy to remove and clean the striker and striker channel on the XDs. It involves dealing with roll pins to go further. It is still easy to clean.
.

For some reason I think it is eaiser to strip my xds than my cm9 .But That could just be me.

[eklipto101]

My daily carry is the XDs specially now that I put some XS night sight and pocket carry the PM9 when the occasion arrise,,,,Love both

[Hunter991]

I have the cw9 and the cm9 but am currently looking at the XDs.. thanks for the review. If you wouldn't mind answering a few quesitons...

How is the recoil on the XDs? lets say compared to the cm9... any guess?

i haven't shot a 45 in a long time and that was a 1911. But with 9mm flying off the shelves i want to diversify my inventory. I had a Sheild come in that had my name on it but passed on it since i already have the CW9 and didn't need another 9mm. also have a Springfield XD9 (full size) that i love but too big to carry. Now very interested in a 45 but don't want it to be unpleasant to shoot. I practice alot with my carry guns. The cm9 recoil to me is quite acceptable just don't know how much more comes with the 45 in a small frame.

[JERRY]

if and when i can find more .45 ammo im going to shoot my PM45 about 100 more times, shes teetering on the brink of reliability but hasnt shown it yet.....after the next bout if i can not get her to run right its pawnshop fodder.

[eklipto101]

How is the recoil on the XDs? lets say compared to the cm9... any guess?


well it is a .45acp but actually it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. If you use 230gr +p it's (of course) more bite but again that goes for all caliber. I use the 200gr but I read in another forum that the XDs likes the 180gr....Remember a 9mm could expand but a 45 will not shrink....haha

[gb6491]

Here's a little video I did a while back that that includes my XD-S and 9mm Shield; perhaps some of the difference in the recoil of each pistol can be gleaned from it:
a2AOniUBn6U
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Lookin at that fine video, it looks like the 9 Shield was more obnoxious in muzzle flip than the 45's.

Nice video.

[Bawanna]

Was that my Ruger in that video, sure looks like it? Love the back ground, looks warm.

[gb6491]

Lookin at that fine video, it looks like the 9 Shield was more obnoxious in muzzle flip than the 45's.

Nice video.
I agree. While I like the Shield, (IMO) it's ergonomics could stand improvement. In fact, I slightly undercut it's trigger guard after making that video.


Was that my Ruger in that video, sure looks like it? Love the back ground, looks warm.
No sir, that's my Remington R1S, which I must say I'm super pleased with. We are having great weather right now. There's a little chill at night and it's brisk in the morning (good for chasing after quail), but the rest of the day is nice, mostly short sleeve weather.

Regards,
Greg

[mko1024]

How is the recoil on the XDs? lets say compared to the cm9... any guess?

I have both. I think the recoil with the XDS is more manageable with a quicker return to the target than the CM9. It's definitely a bigger kick but the weight of the gun/slide makes the difference for me.

Pierce makes a pinky extension for the XDS mags now. A buddy picked some of those up and it makes a big difference with three fingers on the grip. I haven't purchased them for mine yet but plan to so so soon.

[drgad]

I've had my XDS (bitone) for about 3 weeks now, and have pocket carried it every day since (current load: Corbon DPX). Yes, it's a little longer and taller than my Kahr PM40, but just a little. That said, it is a little tighter in jeans, but still not much. I like being able to have my hand on it at a moment's notice. Was interested in the Kahr PM45 but its reliability and the suggested 200 rd. break in - and the price! - led me to SA! :D

[Hunter991]

Honestly the XDs looks lighter to shoot than the sheild.. You can't even tell you were shooting a 45 vs a 9mm.

[addictedhealer]

I had a XD and did enjoy shooting it. I just don't like the looks, huge slide and mall ninja stippling.

Great write up.

[East River Guide]

The XDs does not detail strip like a Kahr or Glock.

If only Kahr detail stripped like Glock. My least favorite part about my Kahrs is trying to remove the cover plate without losing an eye or a spring.

[Shark1007]

I gave 'em both another test. I'm having a recoil issue. I have a cervical herniated disc (2) issue and it hurts to practice. I evaluated several pistols I have broken in now.

The XDS and the PM45 were neck and neck. I like the XDS because I installed a laserlyte rear sight/laser and it is way cool, I can't find a similar laser for the Kahr. Excluding the laser issue, I had to give the Kahr a tiny edge because of the trigger, both were about equal accuracy wise. The Kahr trigger was smoother and the actual firing sneaks up on you a little unanticipated, which I like.

The Springfield has an odd issue common to the XDS where the aft end of the recoild spring looks like it's been dragged on cement as it wears. Springfield says it's normal and no functional matter.

The XDS seem easier to clean, both use Froglube.

If I can find an old stock laserlyte rear sight, I'll be happy as a clam on a high tide.

[Hunter991]

I just got my XDs.. WOW is all i can say. Great piece to be honest. Recoil is stout but not what you would think from such a small gun. Mine fired off 4 mags of Foicchi without being cleaned etc.... no issues. Most testing needs to be done but the quality is very good.

[jocko]

u now I never was a fan of comparing a gun to anutter gun, each has its own characteristics, andu either like um or u buy anutter gun that please you. I don't think it is fair to either brand... and if they all worked exactly alike then we would have only gun maker more than likely for if a kel tek 45 would work just as good as Sig 45 but sell for $600 less, then sig would cease to be here. Course we know better . that was just a cenario and I hate scenario's.

[itsthelaw]

Without comparisons, scenarios and opinions of guns, accessories, ammo, etc, this place would be pretty darn boring.

[2edgesword]

You folks that are say no way to pocket carry of a PM9 have got to stop wearing those skinny jeans and tight pants :).

[jocko]

Without comparisons, scenarios and opinions of guns, accessories, ammo, etc, this place would be pretty darn boring.

probalby right on that. I guessmy only point was when one compares it should be an even playing field.

I would not want compare a corvette to a ford taurus. but one thing this forum is not know for is to be boring as u well know.

I used to compare starbucks coffee to dunkin donuts until I found out starbucks uses recycled toilet water kwhere dunkin donuts uses nuclear waste water. The difference I guess is that they will both light u up in the morning but with dunkin donuts the light is still on at 11 p.m that night. Just sayin:Amflag2:
I hope I did not hi-jack ur thread:D:D:D:D

[Bawanna]

I think I've finally figured out who Jocko really is.

D. B. Cooper. It all makes perfect sense now. He survived the jump after all.

My son has an XDS, I have not had the opportunity to shoot it yet but hopefully soon. I will do a side by side with my PM45 and see how she runs.

After some Dunkin Donut coffee of course.

[itsthelaw]

You folks that are say no way to pocket carry of a PM9 have got to stop wearing those skinny jeans and tight pants :).

I'm 6' 2", 210# and wear loose fitting jeans. I have NO idea how pocket carrying a 9mm works for people. I guess everyone has their own likes. My pockets are already full of other stuff anyhow. Maybe they have a 9mm app for my smart phone! AIWB is another that baffles me. I get the whole draw thing, but I just can't have it pointing in that direction. If the gun had an AD, I'd either bleed out quickly or wish I would. :o

[jocko]

kahrs are safe,I wouldnever put one in my ocket unless it is in a desantis or uncle mikes holster. just beigin there bare is yes stupid. But they are safe in an rg. I wearHarley Jeanes dan near 24/7 adnI am 5.10 170# and have carried it in myfront oclet with ease for over 5 years. no doubt not afast draw areabut againIMO doesn't needto. No one knows I carry so I do have that one element of surprise.I won't dress to caryr and I do keep all sh!tout of that pocket but again thatis a no brainer to. They are very pocketable IMO. I can't see much stuff more important than my PM9 in my frontpocket. Just sayin

[KoolBreeze]

I have a Stays-Put for my CM9 that is very similar to the Desantis & Sticky holsters. It works in my front pocket, but I don't like it there much. It's fine when I'm standing, but when I sit down it really stands out and looks like I have a wallet in my pocket.

I have a PJ Holsters pocket holster in route and I hope that works better for me. BTW, I'm a big guy at 6'1" 270 and I wear mostly lose fiting carpenter jeans and/or Carhart work dungrees.

[jocko]

I know u thik it prints andeveryone is looking, trust ethey arenot. Idrink with soe stateboys alot and it is always inmy jeas and they hav enever lookedor known either. U know it is there, thats why u think everyone else knows. They don't andI guess in my case even I am100
5 legal, so who gives a rats ass. I wuld think withthose clots a PM9 would jusst dissappear in ur pocket. ohwell eachto his own, aslong as u carry

[Shark1007]

Jocko

You certainly didn't hijack the thread. I always enjoy your comments.

I tried to compare the two fairly and, to be frank, I thought the XDS was preferable at first. I'm about to have neck surgery and wanted to see what I shot better and what was easier on the recoil I perceived. If I could find a laserlyte rear sight for the Kahr, I think it would be the cat's meow as I wouldn't have to hunt for holsters to use the bulkier crimson trace.

The laser for me is a necessary item. I shot another couple of my guns with lasers , and, from the nerve injury in the neck, my arm was shaking so much, the lasers were wiggling all over the target , I got embarassed and stopped shooting and left the range.

[JFootin]

I have a Stays-Put for my CM9 that is very similar to the Desantis & Sticky holsters. It works in my front pocket, but I don't like it there much. It's fine when I'm standing, but when I sit down it really stands out and looks like I have a wallet in my pocket.

Try the Stays-Put AIWB behind a good belt. I carry my J-frame that way all the time. I'm a lefty, so I carry at 10:30 with the cylinder bulge hiding behind the front left belt loop of my jeans. I carry it low with a backward cant that makes the grip lay horizontally just above my belt. That cant also moves the muzzle over toward the center enough that it doesn't jam against my thigh when I sit down, and it presents the gun at a better angle for drawing from that position. My belly expands above the gun, making any loose shirt drape over it without printing. And what seals the deal for me is that it is easy as heck to draw when seated! And that holster STAYS PUT there all day long!

[Harleyrider]

I know u thik it prints andeveryone is looking, trust ethey arenot. Idrink with soe stateboys alot and it is always inmy jeas and they hav enever lookedor known either. U know it is there, thats why u think everyone else knows. They don't andI guess in my case even I am100
5 legal, so who gives a rats ass. I wuld think withthose clots a PM9 would jusst dissappear in ur pocket. ohwell eachto his own, aslong as u carry
"Is that a PM9 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" :D

[JrFreak]

I was going to pick up a PM40 or 45 to replace my PM9, but maybe I'll get pick up an XDs to compliment my PM9 😉.

[JrFreak]

Went to a big gun shop today to look at a XDs. Didn't even get to look at one. The place was a mad house. You would have thought they were giving away guns. They said it was a 2 hour wait for background checks.

Good job Obama, you are putting a record number of guns on the street. This will cause crime to drop and you'll be taking credit that your gun laws are doing it.

[Salty]

Well, even after reading all the criticism of the XDS, I grabbed one cheap.

I field stripped her and found the internals looked like the product of high quality control. She was well lubed from the factory, but I cleaned the test residue and lubed with Tetra, the white stuff that looks a little like, nevermind.

All in all, I know this is a Kahr forum, but the little XDS might be a good alternative. I paid 525 new.

Congratulations - I am not sure what "all the criticism of the XDS" is. My personal use of XD's, magazine test reviews and reading of opinions on several forums favor of XD pistols with very few negative comments. The dissenters tend to be a Glock vs XD - Ford vs Chevy kind of battle. You got a good price - enjoy shooting it.

[Shark1007]

It was XDS, not XD's

They had a lot of initial complaints/criticism

[adamog133]

I was going to pick up a PM40 or 45 to replace my PM9, but maybe I'll get pick up an XDs to compliment my PM9 😉.


Have the xds 45, xd 45 tactical, pm45, p380. Stick with the Kahr for Quality. xds is good, but pm45 is better by far imho. especially the trigger.

pm9 is killer.... need a pm45 to compliment that one and a p380 for a backup...


My opinion only ... here folks but after shooting xds 45 and kahr pm45, no brainer on which one I would choose,, pm45 all the way...


:)