I wanted to buy a pm 40 or pm 45

[unclebuck]

It seems that a lot of owners are needing to send their firearms in, sometimes multiple times. Would I be buying a headache? I read through several posts and it seems that returning your kahr is way to common. I don't want to purchase a firearm that is not dependable. I shot a few rounds through a used pm 40 and had 2 FTF. I really liked the firearm, but, what do you have to do to make sure that you get one that works reliably?

[Bawanna]

It seems that a lot of owners are needing to send their firearms in, sometimes multiple times. Would I be buying a headache? I read through several posts and it seems that returning your kahr is way to common. I don't want to purchase a firearm that is not dependable. I shot a few rounds through a used pm 40 and had 2 FTF. I really liked the firearm, but, what do you have to do to make sure that you get one that works reliably?

I think we hear way more about guns that have to go back than we do the ones that work from day one. Fortunately on this site we hear alot about the good ones too. I don't think there's any way to tell for sure a good from a bad. I want a PM45 or at least think I do. BUT we do seem to hear alot of problems with them. I'm waiting for Mr. Wyn's report on the one he just got a couple days ago. I own a K40 and would not desire a PM40. I think the recoil would be atrocious. The K40 is borderline too much and it's a much heavier gun. I'd love a K45 instead. I'd go for a PM9 pretty easy even though I got little use for a 9mm. That would be my first PM choice right now. The PM45 will happen someday.

[jocko]

I never owned the PM40, so I a m just conjecturing here, but it seems to me there are more issues with the PM40 than the other kahr 40 cal guns, so I am going to attribute that to the over all light weight of this power house and the difficulty that many have shooting it. It is a high recoil gun due to caliber and light weight and small in size. so hand and wrist control are just so important in proper functioning of the PM40.

Shooters get tired and they don't know it, then the gun starts to move around in ones grip and then things start to happen that never happened before and we tend to blame the gun when indeed it could be shooter error. Not saying this holds true for all either but it just seems very strange that the PM40 gives more issues than the rest of the kahr 40 cal guns. design wise it is a spitting image of the PM9 which is very trouble free and I also attribute alot of that to the over all good handling of the 9mm over the 40 cal.

Just my 2 cents here. There is nothing wrong with the PM40, If I wanted one which I don't, I would buy it and move on from there. If you do all the things right with the gun, I would think it would be a super handgun, just from what I have read a beast to shoot alot.

the techs at kahr that I have conversed with acknowledge that some PM40's come back and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the gun. The test it and then do some polishing to it etc and send it back. As they don't want to say "shooter error" and that most when they see kahr has done somethng to the gun, feel it is now good to go.

No doubt there are PM40 owners on this forum who love the 40 cal and can give you far more insight into the PM40 than I can, as I am a non owner. I can just give you insights as I see them and from feedback from kahr people. It is a super gun,just that the 40 cal is a hot round. Other mfg-ers who make lightweight 40 cal, have basicaly the same type of complaints..

[jeep45238]

Smaller guns in progressively larger calibers will tend to have more issues than a gun of the same size in a smaller caliber. LOTS of manufacturers went through growing pains when they started to make .40 cal guns - primarily because they simply enlarged the barrel, breechface, and modified the extractor while tossing in a heavier recoils spring into their 9mm models.

Very, very few started from scratch for a .40S&W gun that's designed for the pressure curve and foot pounds of the .40 (CZ40B comes to mind), and Kahr is not one of them.

As jocko said, technique and strength is paramount in small guns with large calibers for them to function properly.

I'd rather have a PM9, MK9, CW40, or K40 any day of the week over a PM40 or a PM45.

The CW series is more or less the same size as a Colt Officer's model, and I can't see being able to run the gun quickly with any less of a grip length than that. They also tend to be more reliable since they demand less of the shooter.

My skinny little arms have been able to get almost any semi auto handgun given to me run, but it's because I work on my grip extensively. Without a good strong grip on the frame (I'm talking 100% out of both hands here) and using your skeletal structure to absorb the recoil and keep the frame relatively stationary, there will be problems from non-controlled feed guns.



Edit:

Most people will refer to the 3.5" 1911 guns as some of the most concealable, full cartridge firearms for self defense. The below pictures compare my CW40 to my 3.5" Colt.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/DSCN0016-1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/DSCN0018.jpg

The CW40 was much, much snappier and slower to follow up on the shot than the Colt, however it gave more firepower in a gun that was the same size, just thinner, and for that reason got carried more often. The Colt wheeled/dealed for a Browning Hi-Power practical, which wheeled/dealed for money for a metal .40 Kahr. I firmly believe that if I had purchased a K40 instead of a CW40, I would still have it and would not have purchased a T40.

[Bawanna]

+1 on what Mr. Jocko and Mr. Jeep said. I still believe that the PM45 with the bugs worked out would be a keeper. Just to much horsepower (not always good) in the 40 for the PM series. Again the K would be a sweet 45.
Mr. Jocko, is conjecturing the same as a SWAG or a totally different thing. I didn't see it in my class notes you sent.
Mr Jeep, leave a sticky note for the maid. Dusting needed here. Like I should talk, I have about a coffee can full of coco bolo sawdust on my bench right now. Actually kind of a pretty sight, smells nice to but not good for ya, or so they day. I feel perfectly normble except for a little numbness in the hands and sweat being red.:angel:

[jeep45238]

Mr Jeep, leave a sticky note for the maid. Dusting needed here. Like I should talk, I have about a coffee can full of coco bolo sawdust on my bench right now. Actually kind of a pretty sight, smells nice to but not good for ya, or so they day. I feel perfectly normble except for a little numbness in the hands and sweat being red.:angel:


Maid? You talk like I have money - I just don't care about the dust until I can't see the grain on the wood. Gives it a workshop atmosphere, makes me feel at home - while I'm at home :D

[Fishesman]

Uncle Buck,

I was having the same dilemma as you a few weeks ago. I've always loved the j-frame Smiths for concealed carry, but the little Kahr PM40 sure looked sweet. I liked that it was .40 caliber, had quick reload ability, and was even smaller than a j-frame (although heavier). I finally found a deal on a used PM40 I couldn't pass up.

My first impressions of the gun are very favorable. I've fired about 100 rounds with 100% reliability. I don't know the history of my gun, but it didn't appear to have been fired much. I'm probably still inside the 200 round break in period. After all of the horror stories regarding recoil I was actually shocked by how controllable it really is. I'm not as fast with it as with a full sized .40, but I'm plenty fast enough. Recoil is not painful in the least. The sights are great and the gun points naturally for me.

The only things I don't like about it is the blockiness. I pocket carry it in either a High Noon or Guru (pocketholsters.com) holster. The Guru has the removable panel on the outside to break up the outline. In tighter pants like jeans the Kahr prints badly in the High Noon, but does fine with the Guru. It just appears I'm carrying a very large wallet in my pocket. In looser pants like cargos or Dockers the Kahr does fine in either holster. I prefer the High Noon in the baggier pants.

I also own a Smith 340PD. I tend to find myself carrying the Kahr in loose pants or in any pants with shallow pockets (it's quite a bit shorter overall than the Smith). When wearing jeans I tend to carry the Smith. The Smith is easier to draw from tighter pants because of the shape.

My advice is to go buy a PM40. Great gun!

Regards,
Fishesman

[Bawanna]

I really tick my wife off sometimes when I leave notes in the dust on the tv or coffee table. Kind of sets her off when visitors spill something and I tell them not to worry about it, the maids in tomorrow. She doen't leave marks when she hits me though.
Happiness is being covered in sawdust.

[jocko]

I really tick my wife off sometimes when I leave notes in the dust on the tv or coffee table. Kind of sets her off when visitors spill something and I tell them not to worry about it, the maids in tomorrow. She doen't leave marks when she hits me though.
Happiness is being covered in sawdust.

conjecturing and SWAG are very similar in meaning. I use um both, kinda makes me feel alittle professiorish:typing:

[65a990Hemi]

I agree totaly with FISHESMAN. I bought a CW40 a couple of years ago and had alot of FTF issues with it. I bravely traded it for another Kahr this time for the PM40 with great success. I hear alot of people on this site complain about the recoil of the PM 40. I'm sorry its just not an issue for me. I also have a Ruger LCP. Fifty rounds down the pipe with that one and yeah, I'm done. Hand hurts; ready to quit.

The PM 40 however is much better. Does it pop? Oh, yeah. But I can easily shoot a 100 plus rounds through it during a trip to the range no problem with more than adequate accuracy. I have put in the neighborhood of about 500 rounds thru my PM40 without one single problem. If I want to go shoot all day at the range NO I dont shoot the PM 40. I have other guns for that. In my humble opinion however it is what it is. A very light weight, compact, & powerful gun used for concealed carry. What I give up in weight for added recoil is fine with me. I can easily carry it all day with an iwb holster and truly forget that its there.

I am completely in love with it and would recommend it or Kahr for that matter to anyone. Even with the issue I had with the CW40.

RockChalk Jayhawk... Go KU!!

[wyntrout]

Darn! SWAG and and that thread on abbreviations or acronyms just reminded me of a good one: DILLIRGAFF... do I look like I really give a flying ****.
Strange... the things that pop into your head unbidden... er... my head, anyhow.
Wynn:D