please redesign your magazines

[apdturbo]

Dear Kahr,
I've owned my pm9 for about 2 years now. Your magazines are aweful. I just cant deal with it anymore. They keep cracking at the top rear feed area and the bullets never seat well when fully loaded. Why would you create a quality pistol with such a $hitty magazine? It makes no sense and i've had enough. I haven't been on this forum for awhile but i just had to sign on and complain. Its like designing a sports car and putting bent wheels on it from the factory. My pm9 will be traded shortly because the magazines suck which is very very sad. I'm pissed and the magazine designer needs punched in the cock. Listen and change the mag design you deaf trolls.
-pissed pm9 owner

[apdturbo]

sorry for my rant fellows i've had my morning coffee and am a little more calm now but dang theres just no excuse. i will admit i've been shooting my pm9 a lot lately. it just seems the mags don't hold up. when you pay this much for a pistol you expect quality. i guess they dumped all their r&d on the pistol itself and none on the magazine function/durability. with all the competition out there you'd think they'd wanna keep poeple happy and coming back for more pistols. i clean and lube my pistols and mags after each session.

chime in if you are with me or disagree.

anyone want to go in on designing a new mag thats quality and make a boatload selling them to every kahr owner out there.
maybe then kahr would see their mags suck.

[7shot]

I haven't experienced any cracking issues with my two K9 mags. Now I do see the issue with the last seated magazine round, it can tend to try and pop out if it slips forward any. This could become an issue if you carry the extra in your front pocket, which is how I do it. To compensate I just play pocket pool with my extra mag every so often to make sure it stays seated properly.

I used to own Kimber 1911's and there mags were the worst ever, cheap in every aspect, springs, metal, just cheaply made. And for there prices they charge, to me it was a disgrace. The Kaur mags are 10 times the quality, IMO.

[titus1971]

Dear Kahr,
the magazine designer needs punched in the cock.
-pissed pm9 owner
That's pretty funny
I haven't had any functional problems with feeding or cracking but it does annoy me that if you have a loaded magazine anywhere but in the pistol the top round will eventually work its way out. I like to preload several mags before a range trip and by the time I get there my range bag has several loose rounds in it. That's not a severe enough issue to make my want to punch anyone in the junk though. :) I figure it's just one of those things you have to deal with it. I always just figured it was because the rounds have to come off at a steeper angle due to the offset feedramp. It doesnt outweigh the quality or the accuracy of the Kahr's so the mags arent a dealbreaker for me.

[apdturbo]

i've cracked 3 mags total, 2 on the left rear edge and 1 on the right. i keep them loaded all the time maybe that contributes to it. i'm gona cut the mag springs a bit on my 2 good mags, hopefully that will releave some pressure.

[jocko]

i've cracked 3 mags total, 2 on the left rear edge and 1 on the right. i keep them loaded all the time maybe that contributes to it. i'm gona cut the mag springs a bit on my 2 good mags, hopefully that will releave some pressure.

cut the mag springs, u won't do nuttin but add to feedi ssues. It is bad mags and possably the gun needs to go back tokahr and the feed ramp has to be slightly modified.

keepon g them loadfed has nadda to do with it. I would call kahr and run ur issue buy them and see if they think the gun should go back, if jso, have them issue a prepair pickup on the gun. Do it right, ur way is not the right way to jfix it, nor will it fix it either.:smash:

[apdturbo]

i guess ive only had it a little over a year too not two years, that makes it even more pathetic.

[kahrsport]

if i had an issue i would get kahr to replace the parts... got 3 kahrs and i just don't see how i could possibly damage any of them with normal use... i drop mine all the time... must be a defective batch yours is...

[Tinman507]

http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/profile01/142/8634cfd72cd54d88af59b9b512e998cf/p.jpg

[apdturbo]

i just emailed them, ill see what they have to say before i make a rash decision.

[jocko]

count to ten then think it over, no doubt u kahr has some issues. trust me IMO it is not mag related, but the mags are bearing the brunt of what is causing the4 issues. We have seen lately some of the 45's going back for a ramp mod, that most can't see it but it is bering done. Kahrs mags are all stainless, they are IMO quality.

as far as the top round wanting to slide out, well it is what it is. IMO this could also be design to accoumadate the offset feed ramp which is why kahrs are so damn small and so so nice to shoot as far as recoil goes. Just my guess on that but again if ur gonna pocket carry there are plenty of mag hollders that will prevent this from happening. Carrying loose in a pocket IMO is an ad for pocket lint to find its home and also for rounds to pop out when not wanted.

If u dcon't hear form them back, I would call and ask for Jay and explain the 3 mags spllitting issue, I would think they would want to have the entire gun back for IMO it is not a mag issue. (maybe one mag but 3, no way). Ask them to send a prepaid pickup . Give um a shot at making it right, then make ur decision. If this is ur first issue with a gun, then my guess is maybe u have not owned alot of guns, for they all can and will give issues. It just happens. My trusty G19 had to go back even and that is supposed to be the holy brail of guns, I trust it dearly. Sh!t happens, never good when it happens to you. Give um a shot a making it right, most have when that is done fall back in love with their little kahrs..

[JimC]

I had two out of five mags split in the same manner as you describe on day one at the range with my NIB PM9.

I contacted Kahr CS and they paid for me to send my PM9 into them to be checked out. They did the usual polish barrel, replaced mags, lubed, test fired...good. No explanation as to why or what caused the mags to split. ???

I don't think they have a clue as to how to rectify or explain this.

They sent my PM9 back with two new mags. The first day of testing it, one follower failed and caused the pistol to jam up. ???

I sent an e-mail to CS and asked WTF?

CS sent me three followers.

I've had one additional follower fail since. It seems that they just decide to fail and they do.

I've had no other mag problems since but, once your pistol gets straightened out, you will have doubts as to whether or not it will fail again until you get a couple hundred rounds down range without issues.

[GROTMAN]

I Just got back from the range after another 200 rounds through my pm9. Now have over 2200 rounds through it and never have had a problem of any kind with the 6 round mag. Have has some issues with the 7 round mag when put 7 rounds in it from time to time but if only load 6 rounds in it, works flawlessly.

[c6vetter]

1. Surprised the mods haven't closed this thread as it speaks truthfully about issues with these pistols. How dare you!

2. Kahr mags are junk, pure and simple. I added Wolff springs to mine ... Will probably cause the things to explode ... Putting a quality component in a $3 Chinese design

3. Good luck with CS. I've called, emailed, tried new manager, Tim Pierce, all to no avail.

4. Selling seems like a logical decision ... Glock, Ruger, S&W ... Lifetime warranties with people who are competent and care

[JimBianchi]

I have 6 of the 6rd mags and 3 of the 7rd and 1 of the 8rd mags. The 6rd mags have all function perfectly for many thousands of rounds.

The 7rd mags were always hit & miss, I fixed the issue by buying a K9. Never an issue with the K9 and 7rd and the 8rd mag.

What I learned is my 6rd mags only work in my MK, and they are 100% reliable.

The K9 get the 7rd and 8rd mags and are 100% reliable.

Your mileage may vary.

[Tinman507]

c6vetter,

This forum is for people who own Kahr guns and come looking for help. We discuss a lot of topics both good and bad, but when the discussion turns nasty, insulting or just plain badmouthing, that crosses the line.

I would suggest you change your tone or find another place to spew.

[jocko]

1. Surprised the mods haven't closed this thread as it speaks truthfully about issues with these pistols. How dare you!

2. Mags are garbage, pure and simple. I added Wolff springs to mine ... Will probably cause the things to explode ... Putting a quality component in a cheesy design

3. Good luck with CS. I've called, emailed, tried new manager, Tim Pierce, all to no avail.

4. Selling seems like a logical decision ... Get a real gun ... Glock, Ruger, S&W ... Lifetime warranties with people who are competent and care
Until u posted the posts were civil. this forum allows that,but then every once in awhile an a$$hole pops up and ruins the thread and then yup it gets locked. Just sayin.
suggestion. hope u do #4.

[beatlesfan]

I've got a T9 and hate the mags as well. I'm always losing rounds in my pockets/bags/mag pouches. Great guns, terrible mags. I really hope they come out with better mags. I'll still keep my T9 though. :D

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[TonyT]

The only problems I have experienced with the PM-9 magazines is that they do not drop free when empty. Could that be due to the mag release?

[jocko]

IMO, I doubt it. some have on the kahr tech forum given some good suggestions in fixing that.

[Tinman507]

Sometimes the mags need a tiny squeeze at the top to make them drop free. Try it without any of the guts in the mag. Slip it in the gun see where it's binding. Give her a gentle squeeze with a channel loks. Slip it back in.

[c6vetter]

Until u posted the posts were civil. this forum allows that,but then every once in awhile an a$$hole pops up and ruins the thread and then yup it gets locked. Just sayin.
suggestion. hope u do #4.

You resemble that remark. Based on your 'language', you should get a warning, no?

[c6vetter]

Sometimes the mags need a tiny squeeze at the top to make them drop free. Try it without any of the guts in the mag. Slip it in the gun see where it's binding. Give her a gentle squeeze with a channel loks. Slip it back in.

Tinman,

I just read your quote beneath your owned firearms. You must not be that bad owning a Ruger and I would suspect supporting the Republican party. I will stand down, but I do believe that ANY forum worth its salt speaks candidly about the products that they represent. How many threads speak to the magazine issue? It's REAL. It's UNACCEPTABLE. Kahr in general has sub-optimal customer care on these REAL, UNACCEPTABLE issues. Sure, they've got some good people, that I am certain. My EXPERIENCE just has been poor. Now, if you work for Kahr or know anyone at Kahr that you consider responsive and competent, please share. Otherwise, allow members to share their REAL experiences. Not everything with this brand is 'brownies and balloons' !!!

[Bawanna]

Constructive criticism is openly tolerated provided its not all negative with no effort to give Kahr an opportunity to correct the issue.

Getting personal or exercising an extreme negative attitude is generally frowned upon and NOT tolerated.

When you give a jab, you can expect to get a jab in return from the other players.

[c6vetter]

Constructive criticism is openly tolerated provided its not all negative with no effort to give Kahr an opportunity to correct the issue.

Getting personal or exercising an extreme negative attitude is generally frowned upon and NOT tolerated.

When you give a jab, you can expect to get a jab in return from the other players.


Good to know. So I can call someone who has had an experience that differs from mine an 'a$$hole'???

[Bawanna]

If the person who's experience is different than yours is acting like one then yes you can.

[warbird1]

I have 500+ roumds thru my PM9. No problem with either mag. The only problems that I did have (one of which I caused) the customer service was madnificent.

[Theseeker]

My new PM9 after 300 round break in following procedures on forum just came back from Kahr for FTF problems with the tip of round jammed under feed ramp. They polished feed ramp and adjusted main spring. Still has problem with 7 round magazine. Will call them when they open on Tuesday. Truly disappointed. I need a pistol that works 100%. I bet my life on it everyday but I am not a betting man.

Very disappointed a $800 pistol does not work perfectly out of the box. Beyond a regular cleaning, and break in period where minor malfunctions are expected, a new expensive pistol should not require amateur gun smithing, magazine polishing, spring adjustments or anything including needing to join and read this forum.

I joined the Honda Ridgeline forum to find new toys and ideas about my new truck as did most not because it had problems. Did not see dealer till first service when they changed the oil and sent me on my way. No problems in 7500 miles. That is what I expect from $800 pistol. I did not mind spending a few hours tuning up a <$200 small pistol I purchased several years ago according to it's forum.

[wagon]

Theseeker: Kahr ACCURATELY slotted the CM and CW in the market segment.. PERFECTLY matching price and quality. These two are still a good buy (hence I did)... but other model line up???????.. You can be the judge.

2 yrs ago I sold my PM9 almost without a loss and I called it a BIG WIN! and I am equally happy with the CM9 and CW9 that I have.. coz my expectation on them is set at a $350 level :D but am still AMUZED when I read people tell others to do this & that to resolve issues that should not even have left kahr's door in the first place..

:popcorn: I love this site....

[jocko]

The vast majority of all kahrs need nuttin done to them but load, rack and shoot.
Some have needed tweeking that fellow members have dissected and found simple fixes. Again it is an owner choice to do or not to do. We give suggestions and places to look for ones stated issues. Often times it beats boxing it up and sending it back. again it is owners choice. What u and I think and feel should come out of these gun makers and other product makers factories doesn't always work that way. Some swear by kahrs, some swear at kahrs. Most all the gun forums Ihave read that are reltaed to lets say Glocks, Sig, kel tek, Rugers, are not there to praise the product only but also to help a new owner tha tis having issues--if possable.

I';d sure like to think when some of our forum members ask an owner to recheck his magazine springs to see that all is well, that that is not asking to much nor a really black mark on the gun maker either. sh!t just happens, quality controls donm't catch it all,no place. Wehave seen some PM and CM owners who lost that little end nut on their recoil spring, never good when it happens to u, but those recoil assembly's come to kahr fully assembled, they are supposed to have locktite on those threads. Is kahr supposed to test each nut to see?? Then the locktite ceases to work after that. It just happens and I have never read where kahr every backed off from helping an owner who experienced this issues..

Indeed I love this site, for most are here to help......

[flatlander937]

I just joined as I own a CM9(and freaking love it!) and just ran about 200+ rounds through it.

I have the factory 6rd magazine(no issues) and an extended Kahr 7rd magazine which was giving me fits yesterday... which never had in the past.

I originally bought the gun, put 100rds of Magtech FMJ through it using both magazines with zero problems aside from one premature slide-lock in the first 20 rounds... and even that I am not 100% sure if I accidentally bumped the slide lock with my grip as I was still getting used to it.

Well yesterday I went out with 150rds of the red boxed Federal cheap FMJ ammo from Walmart.

Using that ammo, my 7rd mag would cause nosedives while shooting, at least 2-3 PER MAGAZINE... if not every single shot save for the first one when dropping the slide to chamber a round(with slide release, not slingshotting).

So I switched back to the Magtech... no problems whatsoever with ~30 rounds all through the 7rd magazine.

My buddy had some Aguilla 9mm FMJ with him as well... I ran 2 magazines of that through the 7rd mag with no problems either.

The Federal stuff worked fine in my 6rd magazine.


Have you guys attempted to use different kinds of ammo?

I need a battery for my digital calipers, but eyeballing it the OAL of each of those 3 brands(Federal, Magtech, and Aguilla) appeared nearly identical to the eye comparing on a flat countertop. What was different was the profile of each of the bullets. The Magtech was the "pointiest" of them all but still a smooth but small ball end, the Federal almost has a very small "flat" spot towards the front and where it transitions from sides to tip it appears to be a smaller radius than the Magtech tip, and the Aguilla was very ball-like similar to most .45ACP rounds... just smaller. Judging from looks it appears the Aguilla will have the best luck feeding of the 3 designs.


FWIW the nose dives I had were similar to those described here: nose-diving before even making it to the feed ramp... which leads me to believe polishing the ramp will not have an effect on this particular issue.

When I run to the store I hope I remember to get some batteries for my calipers to measure the cartridge OAL of the Magtech vs Federal ammo to see if that is a possible issue.

I will need to check my magazines for cracks.

Other than that, I freaking LOVE my CM9... I could consistently keep a 3" group on POA at 15yds... I shoot it better than my 1911 when doing slow relaxed shooting taking my time to aim... I really do like the long smooth DAO trigger. I'm about the same proficiency-wise when it comes to shooting 3 shots one after the other between the two though.

[wagon]

LOL ... other than Kahr's, I have never heard of barrel without rifling and bore being off-center... or a "replacement" barrel is even out of dimensional spec..

Surely I do not know everything, so to my very limited info that I've come across, only Kahr has these silly if not stupid issues, which can EASILY be avoided if their QC department do a proper job.

But by setting my expectation for "$350 quality", I am very happy with my CW and CM purchases.. even more happier that I've sold my PM..... and sill loving this site.

[O'Dell]

First, I've never had a mag problem with any of my seven Kahrs, but enough people do that I agree something should be done. I sidestepped the infamous seven round mag problem by ordering two extra 6 rounders with my PM9 and giving the seven away.

[jocko]

as many wo have followed the issues of the P380 since birth to the P380 of today. Rome was not built in a day. I am sure kahr is working on things that his forum has discovered. They are not gonna announce, "Heh kah owners we have fixed the mag issue or barrel issue". it will just some day be an issue that we no longer read or hear about. changes what eer they be, small or big just does not happen as fast as we think they should. I am not alibinng for kahr, industry changes just do not happen over nite .

But don't hold ur breath that u will ever read from kahr that the magazine issues has been fixed, for if u ask them today about it, "they have no issues".

Same response I got from Audi when I inquired about my 3rd passenger side power window unit going bad...

[Tinman507]

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[les strat]

The only problems I have had with the Kahr mags is the top round working forward (sometimes out if the mag is in my pocket.) My mags drop freely, never had a split, and the 6 rounder runs 100%. I do have a Promag 7 rounder that I would not use except at the range. It runs about 75% of the time. I would never trust it for SD. Too many FTF's.

I do agree Kahr's only weakness is their mag design. If they could make the bottom a bit more tidey, stop the top round issue, and maybe whatever is causing the metal to split with some folks, I can't see anything else there is to complain about. They are great pistols. But apparently, the magazines are somewhat of an issue.

[Nimrod]

I have three Kahr's and a total of nine magizines. I haven't had any problems with any of my magizines. I have used six, seven, and eight round magizines in my PM9 without any issues. I have read in this forum where verious people have had problems with magizines. I am sorry to hear about that. My magizines have always done what they are supposed to do. I haven't modified or needed to modify any of them. For me they are quality components in quality pistols. I love my Kahrs.

[JFootin]

as many wo have followed the issues of the P380 since birth to the P380 of today. Rome was not built in a day. I am sure kahr is working on things that his forum has discovered. They are not gonna announce, "Heh kah owners we have fixed the mag issue or barrel issue". it will just some day be an issue that we no longer read or hear about. changes what eer they be, small or big just does not happen as fast as we think they should. I am not alibinng for kahr, industry changes just do not happen over nite .

But don't hold ur breath that u will ever read from kahr that the magazine issues has been fixed, for if u ask them today about it, "they have no issues".

Same response I got from Audi when I inquired about my 3rd passenger side power window unit going bad...

Frankly, I think Kahr has a stubborn case of denial concerning the mag problems. It's like Justin Moon said, "No. That's my design and we're not changing it." It's a real shame because a redesigned and properly working mag would prevent SO MANY dissatisfied customers.

[jocko]

kahr can make a design change and not have to replace all the followers that are out there. Nothing says they cannot make a design change. .So they could and will in time (I think) get this follower thing right, be it with a design change or a mag release button mod, but again when it happens, it will be quietly implimented into their production and no recall will be done, nor will it mandate one either. Most kahrs today arenot having any follower issues,and again we (myself often at times) are blaming the follower for the issues when indeed it could also be an out of spec mag release button, . We really don't know which one or both are the culprits when it is having this type of issue. We do know that alittle work on the follower takes care of it but again we are taking the easy fix with the follower when maybe it is really the mag release button. They read this forum, they know what we forum people are talking about to, . Kahr is not gonna tell you :Houston we have a problem"..

We are not seeing near the posts about busted mags like we did 6 months ago. sure there are still gonna be some as thousands of guns are out there and some will do it, but I think kahr has put this baby to rest,or it seems that way to me.

[JimC]

Going back to 08.31.11, this is part of a response that I received from Doug Williams at Kahr CS when asked about the magazine issue(s) that I had with mine.

We do not recommend customers modifying their mags. They are well engineered and made in the USA by the same people who make mags for the biggest firms in the industry. There are hundreds of thousands of the same mags that have been in service for years with no problems. Can an occasional mag have a problem? Of course, but the simple solution is to send it in as you did and we will replace it. Also, function problems that appear to be mag related usually aren't, it's best to send the gun in and let us sort it out.

Warranty? Strictly speaking, any mods void the warranty, however if someone ruins a follower and needs a new one we would probably just send them one.

There are no extensive problems with our mags, however we are constantly looking for ways to improve our entire line including the mags.