P9 vs CW9, my dilemma

[Phil 386]

Alright, I need your thoughts, as I'm a bit torn between these two models, even though they are very similar. This will be my first handgun purchase, and will be a CCW gun. I'd like your thoughts.

I can get a NIB CW9 for $435
I can get a NIB P9 for $567

Which would you do?

Part of my feels that the better barrel, adjustable sights, and extra mag are worth the ~$150 upgrade.

The rest of my is saying "This is a no-nonsense CCW gun, get the cheaper one and spend the rest on ammo".

[jeep45238]

You really won't notice a difference in the barrel when shooting, the sights on both guns are drift adjustable for windage, and can't be adjusted for elevation, and one comes with a spare mag.

So, the difference really is the spare mag. If you think you'd be better served by buying the P9 for $150 more, instead of buying the CW and spending $40 on a spare mag, go for it.

[Phil 386]

Well then that clears that up nicely! Thanks!

[jeep45238]

You're welcome. I'll let you off easy and just ask for a Lee Precision 90433 6 cavity mold for my labor - just this one time though, next time I may ask for small rifle primers or dies :)

[rkirk]

I have a CW9 and can say it is a great pistol. Is there some difference between the P9 and CW9 in the pistol frame? I mean I have not seen the P9 and wonder if the rails in the frame are different in the P9? If they are the same then I see no reason to pay more for the P9.

-- Richard

[jeep45238]

There really is no difference except for a dovetailed front sight, polygonal rifled barrel, and a spare mag between the two. Same frame and trigger group in both.

[jfrey]

Jeep told you like it is. There is very little basic difference in the 2 models. I have shot both and own the CW. I got 2 extra mags for $30.00 ea, so I am still below your $150.00 difference. Hopefully you won't ever have to use your pistol for defenseive purposes, but if you do, what ever is on the receiving end won't know the difference.

Just follow the instructions that come with the pistol and enjoy shooting it.

[jocko]

You really won't notice a difference in the barrel when shooting, the sights on both guns are drift adjustable for windage, and can't be adjusted for elevation, and one comes with a spare mag.

So, the difference really is the spare mag. If you think you'd be better served by buying the P9 for $150 more, instead of buying the CW and spending $40 on a spare mag, go for it.

The P9 has the polygonal rifled barrle by lothar, the cw has a standard rifle barrel by another barrel maker. Both are good, One is just supposedto be the premium of the premium and that is a Lothar barrel.. THE P9 comes with a spare magazine which is a $40 value. The P9 will have a forged slide stop lever where as the cw will have what many call a MIM slide stop lever. I have never heard of any cw MIM slide stop lever every breaking. I am just stating some of the difference in the two guns. Both will be total tack drivers. both have exactly the same trigger system and slide innards to
The P9 is set up for installing night sights of many different mfgers.It has a dovetailed front sight where as the only night sights availalbe for the cw series is the kahr offered trijicon night sights, which is an awesome sight that u the owner have to install or get installed or send the slide back to kahr and let them install them.

If it was me, I would buy the P9 for the difference in value is there, certainly the quality will be about the same. also the P9 is supposed to have alittle better slide engraving on it, if that matters to you.

Now you should realy be confused???:confused:

[jeep45238]

The P9 will have a forged slide stop lever where as the cw will have what many call a MIM slide stop lever.



Shouldn't be confused at all, since that's the only thing that I forgot to mention ;)

[Phil 386]

I'm not confused at all. If my FFL guy can get a CW9,then thats what I'll grab, but if all he's got available to him are P9s, that works just as well for me. Regardless of what I end up getting, I'll be sure to post up pictures and a range report next weekend :)!

[rjmcw9]

Actually the slide has less machineing on it than a P9, but I like my CW9's looks better.

[ripley16]

Because you said you are buying this pistol as a CCW, I would recommend the P9 over the CW9 for these reasons;

* The polygonal barrel will increase the velocity of the round. All else equal, a round from a P9 has more energy than a round from a CW9.

* The P9 is set up for night sights in a manner I'd prefer.

That's it. As far as the other differences go, I think they are inconsequential. If you were asking for anything other than a carry gun, my answer would be the opposite. If you're going to carry a gun, carry top drawer, not the economy model.

[jeep45238]

We're talking a 10% difference in speed, that's about it. I prefer either a front night sight, or a massive fiber optic front sight along with a plain black notch rear sight - I can get fast sight acquisition, plenty of precision if needed, and much faster close 'n dirty than 3 dots that almost all factory night sight guns come with. I can do that with either model.

Out of a Speer Gold dot out of a 4" barrel (115 grain 9mm) runs 1,210 fps. 10% more is 1,331 fps. 1,210 fps gives about 374 ft-lbs, and the poly would give about 452 ft-lbs. We're talking a difference of 78 foot pounds, which isn't anything to laugh at. If you want the extra power, carry 9mm+p, or better yet, get a .40S&W.

Claiming the barrel will give you so much extra power to a cartridge that it'll save your life, when before it wouldn't, is a complete bit of bullshit. That would mean that the gun is in a caliber that is so borderline clothing would stop a vital hit from happening. Not to mention that I have yet to find a single report where somebody died from being shot by .45ACP, but wouldn't have been killed with 9x19. I also haven't found a single report of somebody living after being hit by 9x19mm, but they would have been killed if the round fired was a .45ACP. Hell, there was a cop that was involved in a shoot out in a mall parking lot that dumped 22 .40 Gold Dots into the perp, 17 center of mass - the perp kept fighting, and eventually bled out after 5 minutes of fighting. And that was out of a Glock 22, which was pushing almost 500 ft-lbs into the perp with each shot.

Handguns poke holes in things, that's it, and that's the final chapter. If you want a bigger hole, get a bigger caliber - if you want a deeper hole, carry FMJ and/or push the projectile faster. If you want a few shots to stop the threat garanteed every time, carry a .308 or .30-06 JHP in a semi auto rifle. Rifle rounds tear **** up.


Saving the $150 has more benefits to the shooter than the 10% velocity gain a polygonal barrel give you ($110 if you want a second mag, which I would strongly suggest).

That's $110-$150 that you can spend on training and ammunition to get good with the gun. I would much rather carry the economy model that has the same reliability, trigger, and replace the front sight with a fiber optic rod, and be able to practice or take professional training, then buy the top shelf model and not be able to run a fair amount of rounds down the pipe and get damn good with the gun.

$100 can get you about 500-550 rounds of ammo to learn the gun. You'll be more effective with the 'economy' model and 500 rounds of practice than the 'top shelf' model and 1-2 boxes down the pipe.



Gear without skills is meaningless. See sig line - it's impossible to do if you don't shoot. Give me the ammo and the cheap gun, you can keep the top end.

[swampman]

There really is no difference except for a dovetailed front sight, polygonal rifled barrel, and a spare mag between the two. Same frame and trigger group in both.
there is a slight difference in the dimensions of the p9 and cw9 also,look at the comparison on the kahr site

[jocko]

thats why they offer the P9 and Cw9, one floats one's boat the other floats the others boat, I Personally like my PM9 over both of them, therefore we have another boat. I didn't
know that the polygonal barrel gave 10% more velocity even. Where did you read that at. If so that is alot of gain. guns are not like cloths, that you wear for 6 months and they are worn out. U usually buy a gun,u keep it, so another $100 in some cases is well spent. YMMV

[jocko]

there is a slight difference in the dimensions of the p9 and cw9 also,look at the comparison on the kahr site

very interesting. I wonder where the P9 looses .8 of an ounce in weight over the CW9:confused: I guess it has to be in the 1/10th inch shorter than the CW9. which has to make sense????I think.

[ripley16]

Didn't mean to twist your panties jeep45238, but some of us can afford better gear and ammo. Perhaps one day you will too. Let's hope.

[swampman]

very interesting. I wonder where the P9 looses .8 of an ounce in weight over the CW9:confused: I guess it has to be in the 1/10th inch shorter than the CW9. which has to make sense????I think.
I dont know,I think the slides are not interchangeable because of the slight difference in dimension.-----I think :)

[rseseducation]

CW9 was a my favorite weapon until I bought a CW45.

[jeep45238]

Didn't read the 10% more, saw it with a co-worker who shoots Fclass with a .300Win mag. He has 2 that's he's been shooting for a while, and the last one he ordered with a poly barrel, all 24" barrels with the same twist rate. The same ammo was getting 10% faster at the muzzle through the chrony when we were at his farm.

I'd assume that the % translates to pistols, but it may not - the gain may be quite a bit less in short barrels due to less square footage touching the bullet down the bore. I've heard as little as 30FPS gain in Glocks in .45ACP, but I like to stick more to what I've seen in real life first.

[jeep45238]

Didn't mean to twist your panties jeep45238, but some of us can afford better gear and ammo. Perhaps one day you will too. Let's hope.


You're not twisting my panties at all, but you're making assumptions about others that they can afford better gear and ammo. If they could easily swing the cost difference, I doubt they'd be asking if it's better to spend extra money for 'top shelf'

Considering how used my 1911 is and how well it shoots, I don't see going out and getting a Springfield TRP, a Wilson Combat, or a completely custom 1911 built for me. Even when I was making good money, I wouldn't do it.

No matter what money you make, the amount you dump into a more expensive gun that doesn't shoot any better, makes no sense. Same thing with paying for 'match grade' ammo that doesn't shoot out of your gun any better than say, Wolf. Hell, the same amount of money spent on WWB vs. Wolf, you'll get better shooting more Wolf, let alone reloading.

:19:

[swampman]

Didn't read the 10% more, saw it with a co-worker who shoots Fclass with a .300Win mag. He has 2 that's he's been shooting for a while, and the last one he ordered with a poly barrel, all 24" barrels with the same twist rate. The same ammo was getting 10% faster at the muzzle through the chrony when we were at his farm.

I'd assume that the % translates to pistols, but it may not - the gain may be quite a bit less in short barrels due to less square footage touching the bullet down the bore. I've heard as little as 30FPS gain in Glocks in .45ACP, but I like to stick more to what I've seen in real life first.
I beleive kahr stipulates that the p380 even with a 2.5 inch barrel gets comparable velocitys to a 3 inch barrel because of polygonal rifleing

[rjmcw9]

I am not as learned as some on this subject, but as far as penetration and bullet speed goes, we as CCW carries need to worry about over penetration as well as not enough. God forbide we ever have to use our weapons for defense, but if we do, we also must worry what is past the target. Plus or minus 10% not sure if thats enough to worry about as long as ammo is matched to our end goal. Maybe I am over simplifiing.

Also Kakr has a differece chart to compare each gun. Minor differences to me.

[jocko]

Didn't read the 10% more, saw it with a co-worker who shoots Fclass with a .300Win mag. He has 2 that's he's been shooting for a while, and the last one he ordered with a poly barrel, all 24" barrels with the same twist rate. The same ammo was getting 10% faster at the muzzle through the chrony when we were at his farm.

I'd assume that the % translates to pistols, but it may not - the gain may be quite a bit less in short barrels due to less square footage touching the bullet down the bore. I've heard as little as 30FPS gain in Glocks in .45ACP, but I like to stick more to what I've seen in real life first.

believe the 10% possable gain out of a 24" bbl, but I would think in a 3" kahr barrel the gain of polygonal over standard would be far less. Guarantee u, if it was 10% kahr and others who offer this more premium barrel would be tooting their horn. 10% is a hell of alot of gain, no matter how you figure it and to me indeed it would be worth that difference in dollars spent also.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the CW series kahrs, Other than the PM9 the CW9 is kahrs best seller. I for sure know it out sells the P9 by a wide margin, due #1 to dealers not stocking the P9 or P series guns. I have yet to see anything in Gander mt who sells alot of kahrs but yet I see the PM series all the time and then the CW series some of the time and the P series never any time.

Not sure it is really an arguing point on which gun to buy either. One buys what he can afford to buy or basicaly what he wants to buy. If one feels saving a $100 so he can buy more ammo to shoot etc, so be it, that is decent logic. As someone stated here also, many of us can afford the extra $100 to buy what maybe we think is a gun with more bells and whistles on it . certainly doesn't mean buying the $100 less gun cheapens the gun in any way. If what I read about Polygonal rifled barrels and it supposed to give an increase in velocity and my little PM9 with a 3" bbl, can use any excess velocity it can pick up, then as I have,,,,, I bought it. People have been getting shot for years with non polygonal barrels, so we should feel good about standard rifled barrels. .

What does separate the P9 from the CW9 is that option of actually ordering the gun in two different finishs (stainless and dlc)and also the option of ordering it with night sights factory installed. I waited 3 months to get my PM9 in the DLC finish with night sights, because that is what I wanted.Now to some that is "bells and whistles" That certainly doesn't make the gun OPERATE any more reliable but for those who can afford to buy it and actually want it then the P9 trumps the CW 9..:cheer2::cheer2:

[Vinikahr]

CW9 was a my favorite weapon until I bought a CW45.

The CW45 gets carry more than the CW9 but I carry my PM9 more than both of the CW.

[mr surveyor]

personally, I dont think the bad guy will care, or know the difference, if he's repelled with a round fired from a polygonal rifled barrel or one with standard rifling. At any distance I would consider a defensive use of a handgun, I see absolutely NO difference in the desired outcome. Of the other firearms I own, including Kimber, Sig, S&W, Ruger, Beretta, etc., none have polygonal rifling, and all are much more accurate than my personal abilities... and I think that a properly placed round from any of these would have the desired effect.

I think the rifling issue is much ado about nothing.

just my opinion


surv

[jeep45238]

I think the rifling issue is much ado about nothing.


Precisely!

[jreXD9]

the CW is a fine gun. I have that and a PM9 and an xd9sc. I'd prefer to carry the CW, but that one is in my wife's possession right now.