PM45 Slide Issues

[itsthelaw]

I'm not sure if it is my gun only, but my PM45 experienced major issues with Remington UMC 230gr JHP. At the range this weekend, the rounds were not cycling well, but my son was shooting it. I thought maybe it was just him, so I shot a few mags through it. I always loaded it with a slide release drop. On 2 occassions, I noticed that I could not pull back the slide after loading, so I just shot the mag. About half way through one of my mags, I noticed that the slide lock pin had worked its way out. I was paying very close attention to the gun after each shot.

When I got it home and got the slide off the gun, the barrel had hit the front of the slide and there was a small piece of the metal on the slide missing. :eek: I will post pics later, but now I have to send the gun to Kahr. This sucks. I'm sure it will be a while before I see the PM45 again. :frown:

Unfortunately, this was the gun that I was trying to settle into as my primary carry. It has been 2 days, and I am still extremely frustrated. I gave myself a cool down period. Since I don't know the specific cause, I will have to send the whole gun and HOPE they figure it out. At a minimum, the slide will have to be replaced. I'm concerned that shooting the gun with the release pin half way out could cause a lot of problems in a few areas. :32:

[itsthelaw]

Probably unfair to blame the ammo, but I am a Kahr fan.

[JERRY]

How is this the ammo's fault?

[itsthelaw]

Might not be ammo, but never a misfire or issue of any kind in the past 300 rounds of varying ammo.

[The Pontificator]

Not sure how you could fault the ammo for this.

[flatlander937]

Sounds more like improper reassembly and/or something broken that allowed the slide release to work it's way out.

I'm not sure exactly -what- happens when it's done wrong, but in the instructions of my CM9, it warns very clearly to make sure when you reinstall the slide stop that the retaining spring and the barrel link and all are lined up correctly or else serious damage can result... Maybe this is what happened?

[AJBert]

I've put more than 2000 rounds of Rem UMC 230 gr through my Springer 1911 with no issues what so ever. To repeat what has already been said, I don't think it was the ammo.

[gb6491]

...
When I got it home and got the slide off the gun, the barrel had hit the front of the slide and there was a small piece of the metal on the slide missing. :eek: I will post pics later, but now I have to send the gun to Kahr....
Does it look anything like the photos here:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15876&postcount=11
Regards,
Greg

[CJB]

Not ammo. Maybe two problems. Slide stop spring. Not enough relief cut on the slide. Unless you found a chunk of metal in there...its probably not a slide problem.

[itsthelaw]

Does it look anything like the photos here:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15876&postcount=11
Regards,
Greg

Greg & CJB -

You saved me the work of taking a photo. Mine looks exactly like the one on top. I did not find any chucks of metal. I think there has to be more than one issue going on with the gun for the slide pin to work its way out. The slide was completely locked up on a couple occassions. I guess a piece of metal could have been lodged in the gun somewhere.

I am noticing that the slide lock pin seems to stick out less on the right side of the gun compared to CM9 and P380. Maybe this is unique to PM45. It also seems easier to remove when disassembling the slide.

I have also edited the title as to keep from blaming the ammo.

[itsthelaw]

Just spoke with Jay at Kahr.

He said that the half moon area in the slide is a thin area that is machined and will break away as the gun is used. He said to just let is break away instead of using a dremel. I will do it his way for now.

He is sending me a spring for the slide release pin, as he said it probably was not providing enough retention.

He said that the rounds may have been too long for the gun. We are back to blaming the round, but I have not had problems with other rounds in the past. He suggested that the round is made to the upper limits of length according to SAMI and the round is likely engaging the rifling. This would cause it to not back out. Sounds plausible to me, but who knows? I have been having problems with the same ammo when trying to eject an unfired round, because it would be too long to leave the gun.

I am hopeful that all of this is true, and I am very glad that he doesn't want my gun sent.

[wyntrout]

I got my PM45 in March of 2010 and could not chamber a round on first attempts. Mine was missing the bevel on the lower leading edge of the slide that strips the top round off the magazine and pushes it into the chamber. I don't recall, but I think it might have been missing the "notch" we're talking about now. It's easy to make the notch or make it a bit bigger. I wouldn't wait for a proper notch to be battered out! The recoil assembly needs the space as the barrel tilts when unlocking and moving to the rear during firing. When the spring assembly bangs into the part of the slide that shouldn't be there, the timing is thrown off and you have various malfunctions. Some times this notch was omitted during manufacture, but not on purpose!

So far the only pistol that I have observed having no problem without a notch are my P380's. I actually saw a tiny bit of abrasion on my 1997/1998 K9 and ADDED the notch to it. A round file or Dremel-Like Tool(DLT) can be used to make the notch, then a little fine sanding to make it smoother is good.

The BEVEL and the NOTCH are things to look for in any Kahr. The P380's don't seem to need the notch and the larger calibers really need the "stripper" beveled so the top round in the magazine can slip to the front of the "stripper" for chambering before the slide goes forward. Without the bevel, the stripper was actually resting ON TOP of the cartridge rim and the slide would just scrape forward over the cartridge case... if you forced the slide forward.

Wynn:)

[JERRY]

you mean you still have to do some gunsmithing on a new $500.00 gun when you get it? and the company knows about this flaw?

[Bawanna]

Must be an early gun or a miss. That was an issue for awhile but I thought they were machining all the new ones properly and the "Notch" was no longer an issue.

[jocko]

Just spoke with Jay at Kahr.

He said that the half moon area in the slide is a thin area that is machined and will break away as the gun is used. He said to just let is break away instead of using a dremel. I will do it his way for now.

He is sending me a spring for the slide release pin, as he said it probably was not providing enough retention.

He said that the rounds may have been too long for the gun. We are back to blaming the round, but I have not had problems with other rounds in the past. He suggested that the round is made to the upper limits of length according to SAMI and the round is likely engaging the rifling. This would cause it to not back out. Sounds plausible to me, but who knows? I have been having problems with the same ammo when trying to eject an unfired round, because it would be too long to leave the gun.

I am hopeful that all of this is true, and I am very glad that he doesn't want my gun sent.

might be right but that is no way to tell an owner of an expensive gun, that it will soon break away with usage. Kel tek used to tell us that on their guns also and ther memberts sure didn't like it. I wonder how they test fired it with positive results even..

scenario (and I hate scenarios) what if u decided to trade this gun off and a dealer pull the slide and seen this chipped away area. Do u think he is gonna believe that kahr told you it is OK, or a prospective buyer. Yes u can leave it alone and it will "chip" away or u can dremel it andmake it neat as hell, but if it were mine, I would takeit to the U. S Post office and put it in one of their mailers and send it to kahr for about $4 and let them fix the slide right. They do not need the entire gun. I mostly approve most of the mods listed on this fourm for they normally do no harm, such as follower mods etc. At the worst uy ruin a follower and just buy anutter one and ur good to go. When one gets into the slide of the gun or the frame itself, then I feel kahr should do the work. YMMV

[JERRY]

this is clearly a production flaw, send it back to have it fixed where it should have been done in the first place.

[itsthelaw]

Serial number SV4xxx

[jocko]

serial # should not matter, they missed taking care of that area...

[itsthelaw]

Just throwing it out there to see if it was an early production gun.

[wyntrout]

That's not an "early" production. Mine is just a little lower... SV38xx and that was my replacement frame from about two years ago.

Wynn:)

[Ljutic]

I'm not sure if it is my gun only, but my PM45 experienced major issues with Remington UMC 230gr JHP. At the range this weekend, the rounds were not cycling well, but my son was shooting it. I thought maybe it was just him, so I shot a few mags through it. I always loaded it with a slide release drop. On 2 occassions, I noticed that I could not pull back the slide after loading, so I just shot the mag. About half way through one of my mags, I noticed that the slide lock pin had worked its way out. I was paying very close attention to the gun after each shot.


It's unfortunate, but I was using this same ammo for my PM Series Review/Buyers Guide this weekend and it also brought out the worst in the PM45 I was using for the video. This ammo also choked the PM40.

[jocko]

sonds to me like maybe those rounds might have been alittle long OAL anbd the bullet was getting lodged in the rifling. That will certain prevent one from opening up the slide. The slidt stop pin coming out has to be a bad slide lock spring or one that needs some adjustment. that should not happen and will give issues. Maybe a half turn on the slide lock pin scew might correct that. On the kahr tech section I think under cw45 fixes by GB6491 and wyn, there is a photo tutorial on how that springhy shoud look and work etc..

[itsthelaw]

I'll leave the link up here for a day or two so anyone with an interest or similar problems can have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYpahsVD8M

Thanks for the video. Although I did have two fail to go into battery, the major problems were related to a load getting stuck in battery. I really believe the loads were a tad long. I have not been able to check the spring screw yet, but it is likely the screw or the spring needing adjustment.

Thanks to everyone for the notes. This forum is amazingly helpful. :p

[JERRY]

can anybody post pix of what this issue actually deals with?

thanks.

[QasoSwat]

I just purchased a new PM45 and was experiencing the issue wyntrout pointed out. My magazine would not seat without excessive force. I noticed that the rounds were hitting the piece of the slide that sticks down to push the round into battery. I looked at all my other glock/xdm type guns and noticed there's are beveled so I went to work with my dremel. I took a very small amount off and rounded and polished it and it works better. Not perfect but a lot better. I love the feel, trigger size and everything else about the Kahr but it seems to me that they have the worst quality control on the planet after reading abou all the problems people experience with them. Especially for such an expensive firearm.

[JERRY]

it would seem the PM45 guns have inspectors asleep at the wheel so to speek with these kind of obvious Q.C. issues.