CW45 (and other poly 45): issues and fixes

[gb6491]

I’ve posted fixes to some issues that I’ve had with my CW45 on this and other forums.
I thought I would consolidate them here.
A note: I’m sure that Kahr would have taken care of all these, but I’m a “hands on” type and prefer to do the work when possible. My methods and solutions might not be best for everyone and as such the following information is intended to show how I did it. It is not intended as a “how to” article. Proceed at your own risk!

BTW: If anyone else has some tips, fixes, upgrades to the poly 45s, please feel free to post them here :)

Very useful links:
Disassembly/Reassembly Of the Kahr P45 Pistol (http://www.gunreports.com/special_reports/handguns/Kahr-Pistol-Disassembly184-1.html)
How To "Detail Strip" the Kahr's Upper! (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197)
[/URL] Kahr Polymer Frame Disassembly (Tutorial)
(http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4454&highlight=pivot+pin+trigger)

Night sights:
I installed the night sights on my CW45 and I'm very pleased with them.
Some thoughts:
- The sights are well made. I would prefer Meprolight sights and their sealed capsules, but oh well.
- The stock front sight snaps off (per instructions) very easily.
Here (verbatim) are the instructions for removing the front sight:
"Removal of the Existing Front Sight
1. Using a small set of vise grips, being careful not to make contact with the slide, grip the front sight and pull to remove the upper half.
2. Using a pick or very small Phillips head screw driver push the remaining portion of the polymer posts out of the slide from the top of the slide. Be careful not scratch the top of the slide.
3. Turn the slide over and ensure there is no remaining polymer in the front sight holes of the slide. If there is, gently remove it using the pick or small Phillips head screwdriver."
I used masking tape to cover the slide around the front sight blade. I put the vise grips on the front sight blade with the jaws standing off from the top of the slide and pulled the sight off with a slight rocking motion. The posts and sight body separated quite easily. The posts and residue (the posts are melted to stake the sight on) were also removed with little effort.
- The new front sight has two posts; one is threaded. The sight is attached with a Phillips head screw and red Loctite.
(see more detailed installation info in post #27 http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=54961&postcount=27)
http://i50.tinypic.com/iviro0.jpg
- The stock rear sight was very hard to remove. I actually damaged my sight pusher and finished the removal with a large brass punch and hammer (sight appears undamaged).
- The rear night sight needed a slight amount of material removed for easier installation; after that, installation was easy with the undamaged side of my sight pusher.
- I really like the sight picture.
http://i47.tinypic.com/244qkxf.jpg
- [U]I think the front night sight should be offered by itself as it is definitely an upgrade over the stock item (it really did snap off easily). In retrospect, I would have been happy with that and have an undamaged sight pusher. I also think that a "front sight only upgrade" would be a very "doable" DIY project for most owners.
UPDATE: I was able to purchase the Trijicon front sight by itself after contacting a Kahr sale representative: also, Dawson Precision now offers front sights for Kahr CW series pistols: www.dawsonprecision.com SIGHTS FRONT:Kahr Front Sights Category (http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT:Kahr+Fron t+Sights)
See the Dawson night sight installed here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=59903#post59903
http://i50.tinypic.com/35jvy54.jpg

BTW: I've been very pleased these sights. Here's three magazines worth of 230gr. hardball, fired at 10 (2 ea.) and 25 yards, two handed standing:
http://i50.tinypic.com/333kdnm.jpg


to be continued...

[gb6491]

Magazine prematurely dropping out of the pistol (next to last round):
(if your gun is doing it on random round counts, you might want to see reply number 42 (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=67289&postcount=42) for jhertzler's fix )

I’m not the only one who has had this issue; here is my reply on another forum:

The magazine self-eject usually happens on the next-to-last round. My pistol did this and a new latch fixed it.
A few words about the new latch: I called Kahr and explained my problem;the tech I spoke to immediately said he would send me a new latch. The latch arrived quickly (kudos to Kahr), A quick inspection showed that the new latch is similar to the old one, but the shelf on it had been machined at a slight angle and increased area:
http://i39.tinypic.com/20z2q9s.jpg
*Note about latch spring installation at bottom of this post.


Now, that is all well and good, but I’m began to wonder why the original latch always dropped the magazine with two rounds in the magazine and not some random sequence.

Here’s my conclusion:
There is some side to side play of the magazine when it’s in the magazine well. With the top end removed and a magazine (sans follower and spring) in the well, if you twist the magazine base back and forth, you will see that the magazine latch stays engaged in the magazine, but that depth of engagement varies from just enough to quite a bit inside the magazine body. The latch itself does not move during this evolution. Now, my first thought was that the bullet noses were somehow disengaging the latch if the magazine twisted when there was minimal amount of latch engaged. Inserting a loaded magazine into the well, I twisted it back and forth trying to disengage the latch; no luck perhaps recoil forces are more violent and could do it. Then I tried stripping rounds out of the magazine to see if that bumped the latch out of place, no joy or movement until…the follower came up in the magazine latch cutout window.
Here, I noticed that the magazine latch moved; twisting the magazine at this point caused the magazine latch to move quite a bit, but not enough to disengage the latch. However, the most movement of the latch occurs at this point and this point happens to be at the magical two rounds left in the magazine mark.
http://i42.tinypic.com/qrcklw.jpg
So what gives? I believe that when the follower is at this position, during recoil the magazine twists, pushing the latch out of the frame and then twists the other way faster than the latch can sometimes react. The magazine’s spring tension and forces from the slide working over it (possibly causing it to twist as well) push it down and out of engagement while the latch is playing catch up. Note: Add to the proceeding that it might be possible that the slide is hitting the magazine, which could possibly push it out of the latch's grasp. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EBWZvFBeUY). I believe this is why the modified latch works: the magazine would have to move slightly upward to disengage from the latch making it a little more difficult to shake loose from or possibly limiting how far the latch is pushed out from the frame. A stronger magazine latch spring would probably work as well and I believe that pistols that do drop magazines probably have a less than optimal spring (for the OP: replacing your current spring might be a good idea) vice a bad latch (though the machined latch makes up for this as a repair). Still, I worried that the problem could return (big trust factor issue) and turned my attention to the magazine follower. I believe that the magazine follower would benefit if it was redesigned in a manner that would significantly reduce the chance of a marginal latch, latch spring, or both allowing a magazine to drop. The follower simply needs to be made so that it does not contact the latch at anytime. To prove this to myself, I marked the area of the follower that appeared in the latch window, then reshaped the upper portion of the follower and cut off a portion of the skirt. Now, the follower does not contact the latch at any point. I can twist the magazine to Hades and back while the latch stays in place (no movement at all). The original magazine release now works as intended (no more drops) and the magazine (in regards to this) also functions flawlessly.
Magazine latch window (OEM follower on the left, modified on the right):
http://i41.tinypic.com/ig9j7b.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2lrm0g.jpg
Left, OEM follower (notice areas contacted by the magazine latch) 2nd from left, Modified follower.
UPDATE!!! - I now prefer to grind/sand/file the follower skirt for clearance vice cutting it (see right two photos). The upper part of the follower still needs to be reshaped for clearance as shown in the photo of the modified follower.
http://i56.tinypic.com/154ilw0.jpg
*If you are doing this mod to eliminate nose dives, you may not need to remove as much material as shown here. Try removing just enough material to allow the follower to pass the magazine latch without issue. You can usually see where the latch is being scrapped by the follower. (see this photo: http://i51.tinypic.com/2zf0qxk.jpg )

Disclaimer: I imagine there are quite a few (most?) CW45s out there that do not have this issue. I further believe that the modified latch and a new/stronger latch spring would fix/prevent the issue. Regardless of this (and for my own peace of mind) I'm going to run the modified magazines in my gun.

*Latch spring installation:
The spring is a press fit into the polymer, the magazine latch/catch (when installed) prevents it from working out of place.
To remove the latch, use some type of tool (I made one from a coat hanger) to push the latch spring over and out of its slot in the latch. (Alternately: push the latch in and hold the spring over while pulling the latch back; lift/pry/ the end of the spring out when the latch clears it).
With the spring end out, the latch can be pushed out of the frame.
To remove the spring: just pull it straight up until it comes free.
Compare the new spring with the old, some new ones have been reported oversize and may need fitting.
Looking down into the mag well, you will see a wedge shaped cavity in the front strap (just below the magazine catch). There is a hole into the polymer at the bottom (small end) of the wedge. Hold the spring with needle nose pliers or a hemostat, then insert the spring into that hole; use enough pressure to get it started. Release the spring, it should lay pretty flat and parallel to the front strap; put a pin punch on the visible end of the spring and push it completely into place. Look through the magazine catch round hole, the spring end should be about quarter height up in the hole (see photo below).
To install the catch, start the catch slightly, pry and hold the spring away from the front strap, push the latch into position, release the spring and slide the end of it into the cutout in the magazine catch/latch body.
Done.
http://i51.tinypic.com/whk1ok.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/15fr5hv.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/1rf2iv.jpg

to be continued...

[gb6491]

Last round jams:
The problem is very well documented in this post ( http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1290 ) by gj47 in regards to his PM45:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2z5pw6u.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/2vla3op.jpg
"The malfunctions occurred on the last round fired and cannot be cleared quickly. Notice that the casing was pulled into the mag feedlips and wedged into mag and ejection port area. The mag cannot be removed until the casing is pried out. The feed lips of this mag are now bulged about 6 thousandths."

My fix as posted on another forum:
“I've had two major issues with my CW45 and modifications to the magazine have fixed both.
FWIW, the other problem began at about the 500 round mark; the last round would fail to eject cleanly: sometimes getting jammed back down into the magazine. What I found was that the magazine lip on the ejector side was tipping the last round in the magazine slightly upward and slightly off the extractor before it got to the ejector in the ejection cycle. When this happens the case often does not clear the ejection port and gets driven back down into the magazine or barley ejects (more like falls). With rounds still in the magazine, spent casing are (usually) held high enough by the following rounds that this would rarely happen.
To counter this (a new extractor and spring might fix it), I decided to take some material off the magazine lip. I was pretty aggressive on the first magazine; I cycled a spent casing by hand and removed material until I felt the casing would stay in place long enough to hit the ejector. I took less off the next magazine and it seems to function fine. I imagine, with some patience and testing at different stages in the process that even less material would need to be removed. No more FTE issue with the modified magazines: also, they hold the rounds securely and I've had no feed issues with them (I've even dropped them a couple of times with no lost rounds).
Stock magazine and modified magazine (right):
http://i48.tinypic.com/2iuc9k8.jpg
Modified magazines: the second one done is in the background; the modification on it closely follows the contour of the stock feed lip on the other side of the magazine:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2wqgxdz.jpg
I'm not saying this will work for all; it's just something to consider if someone's gun is malfunctioning as described above (again, this just how I did it; not a "how to" article).”

to be continued...

[gb6491]

Difficulty inserting magazine or stripping first round:
Wyntrout describes (with photos) the problem very well in this post about his PM45:
“I found the reason for the "crunch". After after comparing PM45 parts to their PM9 counterparts and screwing with a lot of the parts of the PM45 that I shouldn't have, I tried sticking loaded magazines in each and trying to see a difference. I found a big one. Look at the first 2 photos #43 and #48. These are of the PM9 with a loaded magazine inserted. Notice that there is about 3/16" between the rear of the cartridge and the striker housing and the lower ridge of the slide that strips the rounds off the magazine as the slide returns to battery position.
Now look at the next 2 photos of the PM45 with a loaded magazine inserted and locked in place. There is NO clearance and the ramp/stripper/striker housing is resting on top of the base rim of the cartridge. This is why when the slide is released the stripper rides over the cartridge pushing it back down into the magazine and you have an empty chamber and a scratch on top of the cartridge. The magazine IS locked into place, but by squeezing the top of the slide and the bottom of the magazine hard enough the stripper mashes the rim which gives enough that cartridge is pushed forward of the stripper. That was the "crunching" sound.:eek:
Clearly something is wrong here. Both pistols have the slide locked to the rear and there is a big difference in the gap on the PM9, or lack of one in the PM45.:confused:
You guys with PM45s please look and see if there is a gap in your pistol between the rear of the cartridge and the stripper/striker housing. This is a big flaw and I think the magazine well is too far aft at the top or some other things are wrong. This sucks!
Wynn:confused:

I added a 5th photo of the top round in a magazine which gets scraped as the "stripper" rides over it. This happened a lot."

Attached Thumbnails (see thumbnails here: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=13828&postcount=11 )

Note: Basically, the top round is getting trapped under the slide (Wyntrout photo):
http://i42.tinypic.com/307ltw2.jpg

My fix: http://kahrtalk.com/13845-post21.html

...
As an emergency measure, I could very slightly round the bottom of the "stripper" but that might screw something else up. This isn't an emergency, though....
Actually, that's sort of what I did to fix the same problem (actually, I could not get my magazine to seat) with my CW45. I slightly changed the angle that the slide is beveled to where the rim of the round contacts it.
In the photo below, I stoned the bevel so that the tailing edge of it is moved further rearward (red arrow). I did not change the starting point of the bevel (green line).
http://i46.tinypic.com/6nvam9.jpg
The magazine now cams/rocks forward into place: the top round ready to be stripped out of the magazine. In the photo below, the shot on the left was taken just as the round contacts the slide; on the right, shows the magazine seated:
http://i49.tinypic.com/55rmkh.jpg
A quick movie of the action:
YouTube - slidemod.MPG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhSEY_ZmJeg)



Sorry about that, can't help myself.

In your video, after the magazine seats it looks like the case rim is tight against
the breech face (proper term?). Will the slide move any farther back from lock?
SWAG that the slide lock might be at fault? Bevel looks like a good fix.

Wondering if your slide's rearward travel is restricted somehow, don't know enough about it,
is there a buffer? Couldn't be dirt on a brand new piece, maybe a burr? You've had it
apart, probably would have seen that.

PM40 suggested technique is to lock slide, insert mag, release slide.
When new, mine wouldn't feed cycling by hand, only by releasing the slide lock.
Tried it again recently, now it works by hand.
Once the magazine seats there is a little space between the round and the breech face:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2cqe6av.jpg
The slide can be moved a little further back: enough to release the slide lock.
I have another slide lock (a MIM piece), but there looks to be no difference in position when it is installed.
No buffer, there's nothing I've seen that looks like it's limiting the slide's travel. I did this tweak some time ago and have had not had the problem since (I'm up to about 750 rounds through it).”

to be continued...

[gb6491]

Reduced profile slide stop:
Some info here:http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1099
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3304

Same here, I used a Dremel to knock down the sharp edges and corners on my slide stop.
http://i50.tinypic.com/15mi4d4.jpg
Regards,
Greg
Even more reduction (somewhat following Jocko's lead here ;) http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=859): (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=859%29:)
http://i48.tinypic.com/2isglk4.jpg
Compared to an unmodified stop:
http://i47.tinypic.com/10h4v9l.jpg

Slide locking back prematurely (aka locking back with rounds still in the magazine):
I first thought this is to be an operator issue, so I removed some material from the stop lever to make it smaller and reduce the chances that I was inadvertently hitting it when the gun recoiled (see above). I'm not sure how much this helped as the problem still persisted.
The slide stop on my CW45 was always very easy to remove from the pistol; so much so, that if a round nose dived enough while feeding it could pop the stop out from the frame. My first fix for this was to remove some material from the stop where a nose diving round would impact it. This did fix this issue, but I still had intermittent problems with the slide locking back with rounds still in the magazine. I decided to also remove some material from the stop where rounds might contact it when feeding from the magazine. This has fixed premature slide lock problems in other Kahr poly guns, http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6066 (you might also want to see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph41eu-7IgI ), but was not quite as effective in my gun.
I now believe that the slide stop spring may have played a greater role in both issues than the stop itself. I had an extra slide stop spring and decided to install it to see if it made any difference in how easy my stop was to remove.

A note here: if replacing the spring, don't remove the screw holding the spring and washer in place completely out of the frame; just loosen it enough to remove the spring. This will greatly reduce the chances of stripping the threads in the polymer frame. (see how I did it here: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=44744&postcount=25)

Upon removing the spring, I compared the old and new: finding that that old had some wear marks on it where the stop contacted it, but otherwise they were identical. After installing the new spring, I did some experimenting with the screw that holds it in place (Note: I was very careful when doing this so as to not over torque the screw and damage the frame). I found that by tightening it just to the point that the spring seems to operate as two distinct springs (where before, the whole spring seemed to move easily as one) made for a much tighter fit of the slide stop. I say seems becuase you may not be able to eliminate all movement along the length of the spring, but just limit it how easily it's done. YOU DO NOT WANT TO OVER TIGHTEN THIS SCREW. I then loosened the screw until the spring would move freely as it had done before; this resulted in the stop being as easily removed as it previously had been. I played with how tight the screw was until I found a median that I liked; leaving it just tight enough that the springs travel seems to mimic two distinct springs and the stop is tight enough that I need to use something to start it out of the frame (though I can do it by hand if need be). My CW45 functions perfectly with the spring adjusted this way: no more inadvertent "lock backs" or the stop being pushed out of the frame by nose dives:). Again, this is just what worked for me and how it did it, not how to do it.
http://i47.tinypic.com/25qbyvb.jpg
Here's a video to better explain (hopefully) how I tightened the slide stop spring screw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50P7HCAATo

Later on: I found this posted about tightening the slide stop spring:

“I also called tech support to get the proper way of setting the screw and they said:
The spring looks somewhat like a G and that the screw should be tight enough that the top and left part of it do NOT move. If I understood him correctly, the bottom perhaps from 6 o'clock and going counter clockwise should move and that the rest should be clamped down.” (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=31231&postcount=post20)

This seems to verify what I found when replacing my slide stop spring.
FWIW: I've been running my larger slide stop (unmodified lever) since replacing the spring (and tightening it as described above) and have not experienced any more premature locking back of the slide (or the slide stop being pushed out by nose dives).

Slide stop popping out:
Slide stop pops out when firing or chambering a round.
Tightening the slide stop spring screw (as detailed above) may solve this issue for you.


to be continued...

[gb6491]

Reinstalling the slide:
My CW45 has always required a slight manipulation of the trigger during reassembly.
The rear of the slide first encounters a slight resistance, then passes over the cocking cam; at this point, the slide's position is quite similar to that in the OP's photo and cannot be moved any further rearward. Pressing the trigger lightly at this point allows the slide to continue backward a slight amount and the slide stop can be installed. I believe the slide is catching on the trigger bar and the slight movement of the trigger frees it up for the remainder of the required distance. The gun operates fine when fully assembled.
Video of the sequence required on my pistol:
YouTube - cw45.WMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41einZaqxVo)
Regards,
Greg

Flush fit magazine:
See this thread: CW45/P45: Flush fit magazine - UPDATED (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3317)
http://i53.tinypic.com/140cbx0.jpg

[Vinikahr]

Reinstalling the slide:
My CW45 has always required a slight manipulation of the trigger during reassembly.
The rear of the slide first encounters a slight resistance, then passes over the cocking cam; at this point, the slide's position is quite similar to that in the OP's photo and cannot be moved any further rearward. Pressing the trigger lightly at this point allows the slide to continue backward a slight amount and the slide stop can be installed. I believe the slide is catching on the trigger bar and the slight movement of the trigger frees it up for the remainder of the required distance. The gun operates fine when fully assembled.
Video of the sequence required on my pistol:
YouTube - cw45.WMV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41einZaqxVo)
Regards,
Greg

In addition to the stickies posted at the top of this forum, I found this a good read:
Disassembly/Reassembly Of the Kahr P45 Pistol (http://www.gunreports.com/special_reports/handguns/Kahr-Pistol-Disassembly184-1.html)
Thanks for sharing, glad things are working out!

[Bawanna]

Good stuff, you really put some effort into this. Thanks.

[wyntrout]

gb6491, I would add that Kahr's "fix" of beveling the "stripper" doesn't move the cartridge, it pushes on the rear of the cartridge and moves the top of the magazine forward while the cartridge remains all the way to the rear of the magazine. I checked and double-checked that. Evidently there is a bit of extra space (or slop) in the top of the magazine well. The bevel and a new ejector seemed to fix everything, including the spent cases being ejected at my forehead. I will wear my Kahr cap every time I go to the range now, as well as shooting glasses.:D
The missing "notch" for the recoil spring movement in the front of the slide is a biggie, too. Some guys have chosen to "machine" that as it should be instead of sending it back to Kahr... especially if you have to pay the shipping.
Nice post. Thanks.
Wynn:)
The thin metal unmachined notch area:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1144

The notch as it should look:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1368

[gb6491]

gb6491, I would add that Kahr's "fix" of beveling the "stripper" doesn't move the cartridge, it pushes on the rear of the cartridge and moves the top of the magazine forward while the cartridge remains all the way to the rear of the magazine. I checked and double-checked that. Evidently there is a bit of extra space (or slop) in the top of the magazine well. The bevel and a new ejector seemed to fix everything, including the spent cases being ejected at my forehead. I will wear my Kahr cap every time I go to the range now, as well as shooting glasses.:D

Wynn,
You are correct, though the cartridge moves a very slight amount (at least in my pistol), the movement of the magazine is what makes this modification work. I've edited my earlier post to more accurately reflect this; thanks for bringing it up:) I must say I was a little relieved to see that Kahr's fix on your gun mirrored what I had done on mine earlier.
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

The missing slide notch:


The missing "notch" for the recoil spring movement in the front of the slide is a biggie, too. Some guys have chosen to "machine" that as it should be instead of sending it back to Kahr... especially if you have to pay the shipping.
Nice post. Thanks.
Wynn:)
The thin metal unmachined notch area:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1144-pm45-issue.html
The notch as it should look:

http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1368-notch.html
Here are some photos to compliment Wynn's excellent post;
PM45 slide without the notch; notice damaged area (original photo posted by elars here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1144-pm45-issue.html) :
http://i40.tinypic.com/wu10z6.jpg
How correctly machined slides will look (my CW45 on the left and wyntourt's PM9, as posted here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1368-notch.html)):
http://i55.tinypic.com/20truok.jpg

The fix:
Send it back to Kahr for repair or as Wynn writes: "Some guys have chosen to "machine" that as it should be instead of sending it back to Kahr..."
IMO, a "Dremel" type tool or file would get the job done on a CW45, the metal is quite thin there.

Regards,
Greg

[dmdalton]

The missing slide notch:

Here are some photos to compliment Wynn's excellent post;
PM45 slide without the notch; notice damaged area (original photo posted by elars here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1144-pm45-issue.html) :
http://i40.tinypic.com/wu10z6.jpg
How correctly machined slides will look (my CW45 on the left and wyntourt's PM9, as posted here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1368-notch.html)):
http://i43.tinypic.com/31626p2.jpg

The fix:
Send it back to Kahr for repair or as Wynn writes: "Some guys have chosen to "machine" that as it should be instead of sending it back to Kahr..."

Regards,
Greg


Thanks for all the info gents. Just took possession of a new CW45. Until this last pic I didn't realize that the "notch" was supposed to be there on all of them. Well mine had no "notch" but I prepped it per instructions elsewhere on this forum and put about 120 rounds through it. Ran pretty well with one light primer strike, one stovepipe and several FTRB. However the FTRB's were my fault as they were with very light reloads (4.0 grn Bullseye over 200 LSWC). The only reason I tried them was I was short on FMJ rounds.

All in all I put 50 of the 230 Rem Golden Saber, 40 Win Whitebox 230 and 40 light reloads.

When I stripped it after the range visit I saw the damage. I was really not looking forward to sending it back so I gave it a go with my MiniMill and a 3/16" endmill. Came out great. Cleaned it up with a cratex tip in the dremel and all is good.

I also had the very very sharp corner on the barrel hood so I took care of that with the cratex as well.

Thanks for all your help guys, you are a world of knowledge!

BTW, really like this gun. Can't believe how controllable it is shooting 45 acp rounds. Hopefully they will get their quality control working right.

Dave D

[Bawanna]

Thanks for all the info gents. Just took possession of a new CW45. Until this last pic I didn't realize that the "notch" was supposed to be there on all of them. Well mine had no "notch" but I prepped it per instructions elsewhere on this forum and put about 120 rounds through it. Ran pretty well with one light primer strike, one stovepipe and several FTRB. However the FTRB's were my fault as they were with very light reloads (4.0 grn Bullseye over 200 LSWC). The only reason I tried them was I was short on FMJ rounds.

All in all I put 50 of the 230 Rem Golden Saber, 40 Win Whitebox 230 and 40 light reloads.

When I stripped it after the range visit I saw the damage. I was really not looking forward to sending it back so I gave it a go with my MiniMill and a 3/16" endmill. Came out great. Cleaned it up with a cratex tip in the dremel and all is good.

I also had the very very sharp corner on the barrel hood so I took care of that with the cratex as well.

Thanks for all your help guys, you are a world of knowledge!

BTW, really like this gun. Can't believe how controllable it is shooting 45 acp rounds. Hopefully they will get their quality control working right.

Dave D

Beautiful job Dave. My PM45 had a minimal notch but it was there. Yours looks much better and more well done than mine from the factory. I deliberatly left mine for the break in to see if in fact if would get beat up. It must be enough as I don't see any contact or sign of it getting hit. You may have inspired me to take another look and make it a bit prettier although it's like chrome valve covers on your car, you know they are there, they look cool but nobody sees em. Still nice to have things looking proper.
I think Kahr is getting the message and some of this stuff we see is getting squared away before they get shipped. Hope it only gets better.
Good pictures too by the way.

[wyntrout]

I'm still amazed by the thickness of that area and the more robust notch on the PM9, as compared to the .45's. It just doesn't seem right!
I opened mine up some more and added one to the K9 of 12+ years. It had little marks on the thin, un-notched area, so I gave it some freedom! I also beveled all of the strippers a bit more and polished them and the underside of the slide there where it rides over the cartridges in the magazine.
Wynn:D

[dmdalton]

Beautiful job Dave. My PM45 had a minimal notch but it was there. Yours looks much better and more well done than mine from the factory. I deliberately left mine for the break in to see if in fact if would get beat up. It must be enough as I don't see any contact or sign of it getting hit. You may have inspired me to take another look and make it a bit prettier although it's like chrome valve covers on your car, you know they are there, they look cool but nobody sees em. Still nice to have things looking proper.
I think Kahr is getting the message and some of this stuff we see is getting squared away before they get shipped. Hope it only gets better.
Good pictures too by the way.

Thanks.

I couldn't let it alone even though it probably would be fine without doing anything to it. As the area is so thin it would have deformed a lot more in 100+ rounds if it was going to. The fix was easy to do with the Mini Mill but could be done with a small round file like a chainsaw file or something similar. With a steady hand you could do it with a carbide bit and a dremel.

Dave D

[dmdalton]

I'm still amazed by the thickness of that area and the more robust notch on the PM9, as compared to the .45's. It just doesn't seem right!
I opened mine up some more and added one to the K9 of 12+ years. It had little marks on the thin, un-notched area, so I gave it some freedom! I also beveled all of the strippers a bit more and polished them and the underside of the slide there where it rides over the cartridges in the magazine.
Wynn:D

Like you say, it is very thin on the bottom, but there isn't any pressure on it like there is at the end/front, so I guess it isn't a problem. If you want to notch it, the thinness does makes it easy.

Dave D.

[cgo99]

Very nice thread, lots of good info. Thanks for this.

[Andyo5]

THE PROBLEM:
I found that on my CW45, the slide stop would become disengaged from the slide stop retention spring and pop outwards (to the left) enough that the slide would not stay open after the last round. This would happen even though I had pushed the slide stop in as far as possible, and heard the click.
It was worse when new, and seemed less frequent as the pistol became broken in.
THE CAUSE: While cleaning the gun, I noticed that the washer that holds the slide stop spring in place was showing a worn area, just adjacent to the hole in the frame for the slide stop. Hmmm! The blueing was removed on a sliver of material, and some wear was evident. Well, there is only one thing that would cause this wear. Sure enough, when I assembled the slide stop into the frame (slide was off so I could see everything), and heard the 'click', I could see that the boss at the bottom of the slide stop shaft was contacting the spring washer . My theory is that pressure against the slide stop was causing it to disengage from the retention spring as the gun was being fired.

THE CURE: I filed the edge of the washer where the wear had been observed. I filed until I could see a sliver of daylight (clearance) between the slide stop boss and the washer when they were assembled. Guess what! Today at the range the problem was gone and the slide stop stayed in place.
My only 'caveat' is that if you rotate the washer for any reason, so that a new part of it moves adjacent to the hole; the problem will return.

THE CONCLUSION: It seems to me that this washer is a bit too thick and needs to be reduced a few thousandths of an inch in thickness.

[gb6491]

Flush fit magazine:
Info on how to make one can be found here: http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/3317-cw45-p45-flush-fit-magazine-updated.html
http://i53.tinypic.com/140cbx0.jpg

[jocko]

THE PROBLEM:
I found that on my CW45, the slide stop would become disengaged from the slide stop retention spring and pop outwards (to the left) enough that the slide would not stay open after the last round. This would happen even though I had pushed the slide stop in as far as possible, and heard the click.
It was worse when new, and seemed less frequent as the pistol became broken in.
THE CAUSE: While cleaning the gun, I noticed that the washer that holds the slide stop spring in place was showing a worn area, just adjacent to the hole in the frame for the slide stop. Hmmm! The blueing was removed on a sliver of material, and some wear was evident. Well, there is only one thing that would cause this wear. Sure enough, when I assembled the slide stop into the frame (slide was off so I could see everything), and heard the 'click', I could see that the boss at the bottom of the slide stop shaft was contacting the spring washer . My theory is that pressure against the slide stop was causing it to disengage from the retention spring as the gun was being fired.

THE CURE: I filed the edge of the washer where the wear had been observed. I filed until I could see a sliver of daylight (clearance) between the slide stop boss and the washer when they were assembled. Guess what! Today at the range the problem was gone and the slide stop stayed in place.
My only 'caveat' is that if you rotate the washer for any reason, so that a new part of it moves adjacent to the hole; the problem will return.

THE CONCLUSION: It seems to me that this washer is a bit too thick and needs to be reduced a few thousandths of an inch in thickness.

shoulda just call kahr and had them send you a new washer and slide stop spring. That would have solved ur issue.

[jlottmc]

Good thread this one.

[gb6491]

Recoil spring installation:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=39958&postcount=1 (http://kahrtalk.com/39958-post1.html)

So, I'd like to bring to light a mistake I made awhile back when I first got my Kahr CW45. The reason I am sharing this is not for criticism or to hear what a dum dum I am. I'm sharing this as a tutorial lesson for people newer to shooting sports and firearms. The first opportunity I got to shoot my CW45 I was stoked and excited. I felt like Jeff on an episode of gunblast.com. This was also the first opportunity I had to let the misses shoot guns after being told durin her rasin' that it weren't fit for her to learn. So, a box of WWB FMJ and 2 magazines AND my Remington Express 12 gauge w/extended tube (9+1 for 2 3/4 in) and some field loads I set off. After a nice drive through the country listinin to country I found a spot set back in the woods with a large, natural berm of dirt and rock that was the ideal place for a free shoot. Off the road but such a large berm that safety was assured. I even remembered ear pro for the both of us. The first few magazines through at about 75yrds and I was VERY impressed with accuracy, recoil and overall performance. Rock bustin sure was fun. I then let the misses shoot it for her first time which resulted in alot of coaxes not to be afraid of it goin off and keep hands on it etc. After her 4th or so shot I noticed the guide rod sticking out of the front. WAIT A SECOND! Upon closer inspection I realized that one end of the spring is open and the other closed, to which I had reversed them. Silly ole hillbilly! Needless to say it was an easy fix. The misses could barely hold that huge 12 gauge up so I got her to firing from the hip. Wish I had a video! Anyways, Always be extra careful that you reassemble your firearms correctly. I made a rushed, novice mistake and noticed it in time to correct it without trouble or damage!
That's good advice written above :)
Spring installation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAuHn7dyuWI

Difficulty with recoil spring/guide rod installation (aka guide rod bevel issue):
2edgesword was finding it difficult to insert the recoil spring and guide rod in his CW45:
"O.k., I've disassembled and assembled my CW45 twice for cleaning. The toughest part is reinserting the recoil spring and guide rod assembly. I'm getting it done but lining up the guide rod to insert through the hole in the slide is hit or miss. Any suggestions on getting it right the first time every time?" http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5389

Turns out his guide rod end had no bevel on it:

Greg

I think you have identified the problem. The end of my guide rod has NO bevel whatsoever which would explain why if the rod is not aligned just so it won't start through the hole in the slide.
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/OGMustang2008/GuideRod1.jpg
It appears that a finishing step (adding the bevel) may have been missed.

Factory beveled CW45 guide rod:
http://i54.tinypic.com/1yr1ic.jpg

2edgesword's fix (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=61082&postcount=12)

Five minutes with a dremel and the problem is solved. Added just enough of a bevel that the guide rod easily starts through the hole and allows the other end to clear the breech end of the barrel. So what took minutes of fidgeting now takes two seconds.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt21/OGMustang2008/GuideRodBevel.jpg
Also see: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6085

Custom replacement guide rods for the CW/P45:
http://guiderod.com/
http://www.tcsgunshop.com/Manufacturingpage.html

Regards,
Greg

[deuce]

I just found this posting and it helped me tremendously. Up until now I thought I had a defective slide due to the thin,chipped up metal I found between the recoil spring and the barrel of my CW45. I went down to my shop and filed it to look like the pictures submitted by gb6491 and wyntrout. Easy job,just took minutes. Thanks to all the members of this forum that help people like me to learn so much about my guns. An amazing amount of info hidden in the threads of KahrTalk! :)

[gb6491]

Ejector differences:

As 0311Hoosier points out in this thread: http://kahrtalk.com/p-cw-series-pistols/4758-new-ejector-style-cw45.html (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4758), there is a difference in size/shape between the PM45 ejector and that of the CW45/P45.

PM45 ejector:
http://i55.tinypic.com/xmu3jr.jpg
CW45 ejector:
http://i55.tinypic.com/250tp4i.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[gb6491]

Replacing the slide stop spring:

http://i53.tinypic.com/4j4zsp.jpg
Here's how I did it (as always, this is not intended as a "how to", but rather "how I did it". If attempted, YMMV and would be at your own risk):

I used a T6 Torx driver on my CW45. (another person has reported needing a different size on their CW45:
THR - View Single Post - Kahr CW45 (http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6817756&postcount=25))
Tweezers or needle nose pliers will make things easier (as does a small probe).
Using the Torx driver, loosen the retaining screw enough to lift the portion of the spring near it's non-captured end out from under the screw/washer and clear of the frame.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2l8aovl.jpg
With the non-captured end of the spring out from under the screw/washer,...
http://i55.tinypic.com/jp7z15.jpg
...it needs to be rotated to this position (non-captured end above the captured end):
http://i54.tinypic.com/bi5o1v.jpg
At this point the captured end of the spring can be lifted out of it's hole in the frame and the spring removed:
http://i56.tinypic.com/3310x1z.jpg
To install, I reversed the procedure and tightened the retaining screw as described here: http://kahrtalk.com/15672-post5.html
(http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15672&postcount=5) Regards,
Greg


Deuce, Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad the tread was of some help to you.

[gb6491]

Failure to fire - Light strikes and firing pin protrusion:
gman reported having failures to fire due to light firing pin strikes in his P45: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4927
In the thread he mentions:


...I think what's going on is the striker pin is only protruding past the breech face by 0.025. The minimum SAAMI spec for case length is 0.895 and with my total headspace 0.913 (chamber of 0.910 plus hood of 0.003) means a clearance of 0.018 is present (0.913-.0895) with only 0.025 protruding; (0.008) this isn't much of a strike on a primer.

Anybody else ever see this , how far does others P45 striker protrude from the breech face?
As I posted in reply, I measured the protrusion at .035" (+/- .001") in my CW45

gman later reports:

Happy DANCE!! My P45 will now run my reloads after increasing the striker distance past the breech and using Fed 150 primers. 80 rounds of combat stages no FTF.

Their is more discussion on firing/striker pin protrusion here:
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=153

I got my Protrusion guage today and measured all 4 Kahr's. They measured:
PM9 black with new striker .037
PM9 stainless .037
P9 .037
T9 .043
I am very happy and case closed.

[gb6491]

Front sight installation:

Kahr OEM: From this thread http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5623


I've never installed the plastic sight, but I do know you will need to melt the posts to hold the sight in place. Kel-Tec uses the same system on their PF9 and P-11 pistols; so here's some info from the KTOG forum:
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1287183163
"REPLACING SIGHTS

INSTRUCTION FOR REPLACING PF-9 FRONT SIGHT:

The PF-9/P11 front sight has two little plastic legs under it. The sight is attached by putting the legs through the two holes in the top of the slide and peening over (melting) the plastic legs on the inside of the slide.

TO REMOVE SIGHT:

With a soldering iron or woodburner iron, (or something that you heated in the gas stove burner) gently heat the two prongs until they soften enough to pull the sight out with pliers. Now clean all residual plastic out of the slide.

TO INSTALL SIGHT:

Place new sight into holes. (make sure dot is facing rear.) With aforesaid melting tool, gently peen over the ends of the legs while holding pressure down on the sight to assure a tight fit. Make sure that no plastic hangs down to interfere with barrel."

I'd apply a little red Loctite as well.

Regards,
Greg

Dawson Precision: Dawson Precision now offers front sights for Kahr CW series pistols: www.dawsonprecision.com SIGHTS FRONT:Kahr Front Sights Category (http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT:Kahr+Fron t+Sights).
Installation instructions: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/images/Instructions/Kahr%20Front%20Sight%20Insert2.pdf
See the Dawson night sight installed here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=59903#post59903

Trijicon: Try contacting a Kahr Sales representative about purchasing just the front Trijicon sight.
To install the Trijicon front night sight, you'll first need to remove the OEM sight. It's held on by two plastic posts that have their ends melted to act as rivet heads:
http://i51.tinypic.com/xp7rsi.jpg
Tape around the sight to protect the slides finish, then use pliers to break the front sight posts (a slight rocking motion will accomplish this):
http://i54.tinypic.com/wgq6v.jpg
A quick video of how easy the front sight comes off: OEM sight removal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnkR6mHXJC8)

Then use a tool to remove the remainder of the posts from the holes in the slide.
http://i55.tinypic.com/rthw6s.jpg
The Trijicon sight is installed with Loctite and a small screw that goes into the rear post:
http://i53.tinypic.com/etdzf6.jpg
Installation went smoothly on my CW45:
http://i50.tinypic.com/iviro0.jpg
However, I did have issue with the sight screw on the CW9 preventing the gun from going into battery (this has been reported by others as well); well actually, it was bad enough to preclude assembly of the pistol. I was able to work around it by cleaning up and enlarging the countersink done by Kahr on the front sight post hole (see post #63 for further instruction in regards to fitting the front sight):
http://i53.tinypic.com/2num63t.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/24x2l35.jpg
Note: Some members have posted photos of newer CW9 and CM9 pistols that show Kahr has increased the depth of the countersink on these pistols.
Finished:
http://i51.tinypic.com/2d1juw5.jpg

[jocko]

dam gb6491. I wish we could get that entire thread of yours as a sticky. Your photo work is excellent as is your fixes to. I have mentioned it on here a coule of times but so far on "deaf ears".

[LSP972]

This should DEFINITELY be a stickie. gb6491 is to be commended for his concise explanations and excellent photography.

.

[LSP972]

... very light reloads (4.0 grn Bullseye over 200 LSWC).

I'm sending you a PM query regarding this so as not to clutter up the thread with OT stuff.

.

[Bawanna]

At Jocko's request I took the liberty of exercising my relatively new moderator skills and gave this sticky status. I wasn't sure I had that power but apparently I do. Who knows what other magical powers this Missouri farm boy wields and don't even know about.
No doubt in my mind this thread surely deserves it and GB6491 is possibly the smartest man alive and a dang good photographer too.

[jocko]

good man Bawanna, now see if u can make yourself dissapear?


Just kiddin this forum would be boring without your input. but I do thank you as I think the GB 6491 thread is one of the best..

[Bawanna]

Hmm, I don't see a disappear button, there is a delete button, reckon that would work?

[Bawanna]

I know, I'll ask Mr. Surveyor. He's figured out how to make himself invisible!
That would work.

[gb6491]

Dawson Precision front sight installation:
http://www.dawsonprecision.com/images/Instructions/Kahr%20Front%20Sight%20Insert2.pdf


BTW - Thanks Bawanna

[garyb]

GREAT analysis and descriptions of the mods. I have not experienced any issues with my PM40, but if I do, I will refer back to this info to look at any of your solutions that may help resolve the issue. Great work. You put alot of time and detail into this. Should be a sticky. Thanks for sharing.

[OldLincoln]

Shoot, don't know that I've ever seen this before. Makes me want to go buy a CW/PM45 just to work on (yeah, in my dreams). Do we have one for PM9 mods?

[gb6491]

Trigger not resetting:
The problem (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6057): (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6057%29:)

Haven't seen this one before. Went shooting today with a friend. We ran a couple of mags through the gun and then the problem started. I shoot the gun, it ejects the cartridge, loads a new round but doesn't reset the trigger. So I have a unspent round in the chamber, I pull the trigger and and there is no resistance. I clear the chamber pull back the slide and load the same round and then the gun shoots. But then the same problem occurs again. I can only shoot one round. Has anyone ran into this before? I was shooting Federal ammo, 230 gr FMJ RN. If I had different ammo, I would have tried to see if that was the problem. On the last mag, I did shoot 2 in a row before the problem started again.

A fix as posted by Cash.45:

Hi guys. Just joined the forum as I was looking for a fix for this exact problem. Well, I didn't find it here so I dug into it myself and here's what I found.

1) The trigger would reset all day long manually racking the slide, but if I pulled upwards on the slide while racking it the trigger would not reset.

2) I took the slide off and while manually pushing down on the trigger bar tab (that sticks up for the slide to engage, push down and reset the trigger) I noticed it was reseting the trigger below the level that the slide could depress it.

3) Upon further inspection I noticed the tab (red arrow in attached picture) that engages the cocking cam (blue arrow in attached picture) was bent up at enough of an angle that it required the trigger bar to be pushed down below the level that the slide could depress it.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2lc7xz.jpg
4) I manually bent the tab down about 5-10 degrees and reassembled the pistol (CW 45).

5) While pulling upward on the slide and racking it the trigger now reset every time.

I just got back from the range and I put 120 rounds through it with 0 malfunctions.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps someone (it sure was frustrating for me!).

How it was accomplished:

Actually, and gunsmiths are going to cringe at this, I removed the trigger bar spring, lower the trigger bar down and manually bent the tab with a screwdriver. I knew it didn't need much of an adjustment and didn't want to disassemble the trigger if I didn't have to.
Nicely done Cash.45!

[Bawanna]

Thanks Cash45 and Greg for posting it. Good stuff as usual.

[Cash.45]

Hi guys. I stumbled across this thread while exploring the forum and discovered a problem I didn't even know I had (the missing slide notch). This thread is a gold mine! Great fixes, photos and descriptions. You guys rock! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us Kahr newbies. And thanks to gb6491 for assembling this info and Bawanna45cal for making it a sticky.

[Cornel]

Maybe I missed it in here but here is a previous post about how to work the receiver of some Kahrs.

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4454

[gb6491]

Magazine dropping (random round count):
This was happening to jhertzler:
"Well, I've read about this problem, and sure enough, I have one now and it's dropping its magazine every three or four rounds."( http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17243654)
He tried some of the fixes described earlier in this thread (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612) with little joy, but was able to resolve the issue with his own fix.
Posted with his permission:
"Given this discussion about somewhat loose mag well tolerances, I put a small piece of Velcro tape (about 3/8 by 2 inches) (the "little hooks" side of the Velcro arrangement) in the side of the well opposite the latch. I also "shaved" a little of the little hooks off a bit with some small scissors as it didn't need to be that thick. The result is that the magazine is held more tightly against the latch side of the well (more to the right).

The result also is that the magazine no longer drops when firing. The magazines fit too snugly in the well to drop freely when released, but that's OK with me. The tape stays put really well, as it has very strong adhesive and the tape is basically made of plastic. It would be easy to replace with a new piece of Velcro tape if it ever gets worn or loose in there (gun cleaner on it or something).

I guess you could put Velcro or any other (strong) adhesive tape on the magazines, too, rather than inside the magazine well. I think it's less noticeable in the well and you don't have to use so much tape. It works no matter which magazine you put in.

The gun shoots great now -- feeds and cycles all ammo with no problem -- shoots very accurately and point of aim. I guess I'm good to go. Thanks for the correspondence about it." http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17231851&postcount=11 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17231851&postcount=11)

"Here's a couple of pictures, of the gun and of the tape fix, referenced above. Just for fun, note the shooting results last week at 10 yds. Not too bad for an amateur. Joe"
http://i55.tinypic.com/vimlbs.jpg
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0USueiZPQGto9mKrvsVuMw?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G7OLvCLqryXBCQzp019uVQ?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/553EtnJ5D_hC-TicrJy0qA?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/OAjZgMmMTjgW44Amva1zfg?feat=directlink

Thanks for sharing this innovative fix with us Joe; well done.

[cblambert1645]

from one of my other posts...
1911 mags will run in a Kahr 45, better actually than the Kahr mags that are what 45 bucks? I started with inexpensive Springfield factory compact mags that I bought for around $20, (let me know if you need some) just standard Metalform style officer stuff, then removed the follower, trimmed an 1/8" off the tail so I could barely stuff the 7th round in with the slide open to make it easier for 6+1 carry....and take a belt sander or file to the little bump. The nose of the follower needs tweeked slightly down as to not hang up the slide.
next around .100" of the feed lip at the most forward highest edge needs removed on the right side to clear the ejector...on the left side .030" needs to be removed to clear the slide rail. strip & remove the barrel the re install the slide, & mag & you'll see instantly what I mean. I can literally modify these mags in in minutes. The result will be a better functioning mag, steel flush mag floor plate that will except a proper bump if need be thats not finicky (I cant get mine to stop running now) that can still inter chance with a officer 1911 & no cheap plastic mag floor plate that would break if hit right on a hard floor & be USELESS. After alot of measuring & checking cw45 has a really tight chamber with steep sharp leade. This prevents the use of some (Hornady 200grn XTP- my favorite load) from chambering fully- and locks 'er up tight if tried. So Im using Winchester 185 silvertips & Federal 185 JHC with good results as the bullets ogive is seated closer to the case mouth. Lastly, the extension tail on the bottom of the slide that strips rounds from the mag, needs re-contoured & polished smooth, the dang thing is so sharp that it will plow brass from the top cartridge in the mag- especially with the overly strong spring of the Kahr Mag- if you keep it do yourself a favor & trim a coil off the spring.

[gb6491]

cblambert1645,
Welcome to the forums:)
That's excellent info you posted above. thanks!
I've quoted you and pasted the info into an ongoing thread in the "P and CW Series Pistols forum" about modifying Officer's/Compact magazines: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3317
Regards,
Greg

[oso1964]

i just got my pm45 back from kahr yesterday,they fixed many problems.have'nt shot the pistol yet to see if it runs. after seeing photo i checked the clearance of the stripper on bottom of slide when inserting mag. there is no clearance. i have to insert cartridges about .005" short of back of mag. to clear stripper. now if slide is closed and i insert loaded mag. and rack the slide by hand the pistol chambers rd. ever time. in photo that was cw45 that was beveled. my pm45 has no bevel at all. i read that was kahrs fix was to bevel the stripper.was that on just cw45,or was that for both cw and pm45? i dont really feel like sending the pistol right back to kahr when i can bevel the stripper myself. that was one of many issues i had with my pm45,that it would not chamber a rd. by releasing slide stop. i informed kahr of this problem.

[gb6491]

... i read that was kahrs fix was to bevel the stripper.was that on just cw45,or was that for both cw and pm45? i dont really feel like sending the pistol right back to kahr when i can bevel the stripper myself. that was one of many issues i had with my pm45,that it would not chamber a rd. by releasing slide stop. i informed kahr of this problem.
Yes, the bevel "fix" has worked on both CW45 and PM45 pistols.
I increased a bevel that was already on my CW45 (as shown earlier in this thread) and Kahr later beveled the slide on wyntrout's PM45 to fix the issue. See wyntrout's posts here:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15174&postcount=86
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15194&postcount=93
Regards,
Greg

[oso1964]

thanks gb6491, i saw earlier in thread your pics of cw45. i read wyntrouts post,but could'nt find anything when clicking on links in wyntrouts posts. once again thanks you have ansewered my question and hopefully after i bevel the stripper and the fixes kahr has made my pistol will run. i am actually starting to feel like my pm45 is going run and will become my carry gun,which is why i bought it.

[Catshooter]

oso,

They can be work, but to me, they're worth it. Mine took work and I'd do it all over again if I had to.


Cat

[billpocz]

Great thread!

The small bevel on the breechface saved me from a nervous breakdown!

[RogerP9fan]

I just received a UPS link that my CW45 is on it's way. Just wanted to express my appreciation to gb6491 as he is obviously a great help to us Kahr owners. Hope my new pistol runs smoothly with no problems, however.....if there are issues, I feel better about having this thread and others to turn to for help.

[Bawanna]

Yup, GB is a great asset around here. Some great thought, ideas, and just plan knowledge in his head for sure.

[gb6491]

I've added a video link to post #5 in regards to how I tighten the slide stop spring screw.
Regards,
Greg

[Cornel]

That's what I had to do when the slide stop started coming off the frame when shooting, causing problems like FTRB and few stovepipes in my CW45.

Thanks for the very clear and nice video. As always you've done a great job and thanks, again, for taking the time to share and post it here.

[gb6491]

My thanks to all for their kind comments; very much appreciated.
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

ur the man GB

[gb6491]

ur the man GB

I beg to differ, sir (love that line from "Tombstone"), you and Bawanna be the "man" here.:)
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

there is no one like BAWANNA.

[gb6491]

Mangled barrel hood:

Issue: Outside edge of the barrel hood appears damaged (visible in the left hand portion of the photo below). This is the result of wear and happens as hood rubs against the slide. It should not progress past what is shown in the photo and is purely cosmetic at this point.

If you desire to, the sharp points can be knocked down with a file (see left side of photo below). I would not go any further than than this (lightly knocking the points down). I did so on my pistol and have seen no further gouging.

http://i52.tinypic.com/27yyjqq.jpg

[Bawanna]

there is no one like BAWANNA.

Let us all give thanks for that!

[jocko]

that is also the portion of the barrel/breech that takes most of the hits when brass is ejected. Normally it will cause alittle burr on the right hand tip of the barrel hood. My PM9 did that but once I filed it down and sd mooth it out where it was not pointed like a pinhead and weak at that point, it never reappeared. This hood IMO looks worse than I have seen on the past, but what GB stated is correct. U can smooth that area down and it should never reappear again.[/I]

[jocko]

Let us all give thanks for that!

certainly do EVERY DAY!!

[incusus]

Thank you! I'm going over my new CW45 now and identifying tweaks. I do not have the slide lock issue, but noticed the loose spring condition as an easily removed slide lock. once its throughly broken in, this is first on the list of things to do/recheck.

newbie thanks you much!

[gb6491]

Seeing as how there are variances in how slides are countersunk for the front sight posts on "C" (and "E") series guns, I thought I'd put up some diagrams in regards to what I've found is involved with "fitting" the Trijicon front night sight. YMMV.
First, do a dry run installation.
Check that the sight will fit flush on the slide. Then check the posts for correct clearance on the inside of the slide. Finally, install the screw and check that it holds the sight flush to the slide and fits correctly into the countersink.
http://i53.tinypic.com/14uc29d.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/o1wqs.jpg
*note - in the diagrams, fit of the sight posts in their holes and screw head in the countersink are exaggerated to show the parts clearly. The posts fit closely in real life and the screw head will be in contact with the sides/bottom of the countersink.

Once satisfied that the fit is correct, install using an adequate amount of red Loctite.

Post #27 contains instruction for removing the factory front sight and installing the Trijicon sight (some mention in post #1 as well).

Regards,
Greg

[PBJ]

Much thanks for the informative and detailed post.

[rkammer]

I've adjusted my slide stop spring per Gregs instructions and video and my gun functions perfectly. But, will that screw stay put over time and usage? Seems like constant recoil would tighten or loosen it over time. Is this not the case?

[TucsonMTB]

So long as you do not over tighten it and strip the threads, it will be just fine. Mine has not moved in the months and hundreds of rounds since adjusting the spring. Most people never have a need to mess with the screw at all. :)

[gb6491]

I've adjusted my slide stop spring per Gregs instructions and video and my gun functions perfectly. But, will that screw stay put over time and usage? Seems like constant recoil would tighten or loosen it over time. Is this not the case?

So long as you do not over tighten it and strip the threads, it will be just fine. Mine has not moved in the months and hundreds of rounds since adjusting the spring. Most people never have a need to mess with the screw at all. :)
Ray,
+1 on what TucsonMTb wrote.
The screw seems to stay put once adjusted. I say that because I check the movement/tension of the stop spring when I clean my C45 and 9; so far neither has needed adjustment. I believe spring wear would more likely create a need for adjustment than the screw moving.
Regards,
Greg

[joe d]

This is a great thread...This has helped me in so many ways w/ my CW45...This is without a doubt the most awesome gun forum around w/ the most knowledgeable and helpful people...No matter what issues you may have, everyone here looks to help...

[jocko]

I have replaced one slide stop spring in over 32K rounds and probably 300+side take offs. The screw won't move from where u last turned it. That is a fragile area to look at but we realy don't have any real issues in that area.One has to be careful , that is all. I wish there was a metal nsert that the screw threaded into but again it is a wish/dream.

[rkammer]

Thanks, guys. Much appreciated.

[yqtszhj]

From round number 1 every time I fired a round the trigger would never reset and I mean every round of the 100 I shot today. I had to pull the trigger back with the end of my finger and let go so the trigger would spring forward and it would reset every time. letting the trigger forward like normal after firing a round would not reset the trigger.

So I remove the slide and everything looks normal. no excessive dirt or anything. When dry firing at the range I could pull the trigger, rack the slide, let it go like normal and the trigger would not reset. I had to let it spring forward. I finished the 100 rounds to see if anything else was going to occur but nothing did so I head to the house with my no reset issue.

On arriving home I get to the work bench and proceed to check things out. The trigger works perfectly. I'm like what the heck??? So I start thinking what could it be???

I get out the spray cleaner and spray around the trigger bar and trigger to make sure that the area is clean. The trigger gets rough and sticky. I put one drop at the trigger and at trigger bar and it operates like normal.

I put the slide back on and everything operated normally then it dawned on me that the gun was warm from sitting in the sun before I fired it at the range. So I set it in the sun outside the garage door to warm up. When warm it failed to reset every time. IT WAS MADE FOR ALASKA!

Here's what's happening. The trigger is pulled and the slide goes back, pushing down on the tab on top of the trigger bar. Then the trigger is released but when the gun is warm you can see the trigger bar is binding on something just enough to keep it from moving back up into the bottom of the slide and resetting the trigger. I could duplicate this every time. That is why letting the trigger spring forward would shock it just enough to go into place.

I checked behind the panel on the side and there was no garbage there but It was a little rough on the back. The trigger bar spring seems strong and tight enough to do the job. I ran out of sunlight (heat) and time before I could try it without the panel on. I guess i'll do that tomorrow. I was a bit hacked at first but I guess if they test fired this in the factory in air conditioning everything would have worked fine. I'm afraid if I send it back they'll try it at 72 degrees and it will work.

Recoil on the 45 was very manageable now if i can just get it reset at normal southeast summer outside temperatures (100 degrees) hopefully it will be good.

Update and problem possibly solved. Got up this morning and started first thing. Here is the series of events. I also used my CM9 for a reference of a correctly working gun.

First AM at room temp everything worked right with gun assembled. Trigger reset OK

Not enough heat outside to warm the gun so I pulled out the gun heater (wife's hair dryer) and warmed frame slightly. Trigger reset problem happened again right away.

Removed side panel and warmed the assembled gun. Trigger reset problem still occurred so it's not the side panel.

Checked frame for roughness and visible parts of trigger bar for burrs and found nothing.

Removed slide and checked cutout on the right side of slide for issues. No problem found.

I noticed that the problem was more obvious when slide was on and gun c0cked. Ahh, there was a clue. It seems that the c0cking cam must move some un-obvious amount more when c0cked than when not that way.

Started looking at the c0cking cam and trigger bar to find the binding and found that was where the problem appeared to be. It was like there was a burr or something either on the c0cking cam or the trigger bar where they meet for firing and resetting.

Couldn't see anything with the gun assembled so you guessed it. Out comes the trigger to get at the trigger bar. When I got the trigger bar out I could see that on the trigger bar where it meets the c0cking cam there was a sharp knife like edge. That was what was grabbing I was sure. Smoothed that front edge and another rough spot on the side of the trigger bar that could have been rubbing in the frame.

Put the frame back together (with side panel still off) and even dry w/ no oil or grease the trigger was smoother. Put the slide back on the frame and then warmed up the gun again. The reset seems to be working better. C0cked the gun and pulled the trigger just a tad and pushed the reset down to let the trigger bar tab and c0cking cam wear on each other a bit quite a few times to smooth it out further. Appears to be working better. The reset is much more pronounced like on my CM9 and my previous CW9.

Since I couldn't get to see Greg in AZ and heat stress test it there. I simulated outside summer conditions here and heated the gun to an uncomfortable handling temp to test it with the wife's hair dryer. Everything seems to be working now. Couldn't get to the range today but it wasn't as hot anyway. We are expecting a 97 degree day here later this week so I'll try and head to the range then to lay it in the sun and shoot it. I may be good to go. We'll see.

Summary. Tolerances are TIGHT in this gun. Not like my full size 1911 or 92FS. The frame and/or slide slightly warming was changing tolerances enough to malfunction. This would not happen at 75-80 degrees. Also there is not much polish room with the long trigger pull and long reset.

If you are of the faint of heart I don't recommend the trigger part to just anyone. I didn't think it was too bad but I have gotten myself in such a big enough mess before that this was relatively minor. I didn't even swear or anything.

[Mazinger]

Question regarding post #4 where the ammo casing is hitting the bottom of the slide.

Mine will do this, but If I push a bit harder the magazine will go all the way in and the ammo casing will clear the slide. Is this "forcing" normal or should the magazine go straight in without any resistance and without touching any part of the slide? Thanks.

BTW: Great forum. Unfortunately I found because of issues with my used PM45.

[dorangolv]

I’ve posted fixes to some issues that I’ve had with my CW45 on this and other forums.
I thought I would consolidate them here.
A note: I’m sure that Kahr would have taken care of all these, but I’m a “hands on” type and prefer to do the work when possible. My methods and solutions might not be best for everyone and as such the following information is intended to show how I did it. It is not intended as a “how to” article. Proceed at your own risk!

BTW: If anyone else has some tips, fixes, upgrades to the poly 45s, please feel free to post them here :)

Very useful links:
Disassembly/Reassembly Of the Kahr P45 Pistol (http://www.gunreports.com/special_reports/handguns/Kahr-Pistol-Disassembly184-1.html)
How To "Detail Strip" the Kahr's Upper! (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197)
[/URL] Kahr Polymer Frame Disassembly (Tutorial)
(http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4454&highlight=pivot+pin+trigger)

Night sights:
I installed the night sights on my CW45 and I'm very pleased with them.
Some thoughts:
- The sights are well made. I would prefer Meprolight sights and their sealed capsules, but oh well.
- The stock front sight snaps off (per instructions) very easily.
Here (verbatim) are the instructions for removing the front sight:
"Removal of the Existing Front Sight
1. Using a small set of vise grips, being careful not to make contact with the slide, grip the front sight and pull to remove the upper half.
2. Using a pick or very small Phillips head screw driver push the remaining portion of the polymer posts out of the slide from the top of the slide. Be careful not scratch the top of the slide.
3. Turn the slide over and ensure there is no remaining polymer in the front sight holes of the slide. If there is, gently remove it using the pick or small Phillips head screwdriver."
I used masking tape to cover the slide around the front sight blade. I put the vise grips on the front sight blade with the jaws standing off from the top of the slide and pulled the sight off with a slight rocking motion. The posts and sight body separated quite easily. The posts and residue (the posts are melted to stake the sight on) were also removed with little effort.
- The new front sight has two posts; one is threaded. The sight is attached with a Phillips head screw and red Loctite.
(see more detailed installation info in post #27 http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=54961&postcount=27)
http://i50.tinypic.com/iviro0.jpg
- The stock rear sight was very hard to remove. I actually damaged my sight pusher and finished the removal with a large brass punch and hammer (sight appears undamaged).
- The rear night sight needed a slight amount of material removed for easier installation; after that, installation was easy with the undamaged side of my sight pusher.
- I really like the sight picture.
http://i47.tinypic.com/244qkxf.jpg
- [U]I think the front night sight should be offered by itself as it is definitely an upgrade over the stock item (it really did snap off easily). In retrospect, I would have been happy with that and have an undamaged sight pusher. I also think that a "front sight only upgrade" would be a very "doable" DIY project for most owners.
UPDATE: I was able to purchase the Trijicon front sight by itself after contacting a Kahr sale representative: also, Dawson Precision now offers front sights for Kahr CW series pistols: www.dawsonprecision.com SIGHTS FRONT:Kahr Front Sights Category (http://www.dawsonprecision.com/CategoryProductList.jsp?cat=SIGHTS+FRONT:Kahr+Fron t+Sights)
See the Dawson night sight installed here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=59903#post59903
http://i50.tinypic.com/35jvy54.jpg

BTW: I've been very pleased these sights. Here's three magazines worth of 230gr. hardball, fired at 10 (2 ea.) and 25 yards, two handed standing:
http://i50.tinypic.com/333kdnm.jpg


to be continued...

How's that Aluminum case Blazer running in your CW? Saw some at a local Sportsman's Warehouse but passed on it because of the aluminum. $22.90 for 50 230 gr FMJ

[wyntrout]

I've used cases of it in my PM45 with NO problems. I also use the aluminum-cased Blazer in 9mm and .40 S&W with no problems... just can't reload it... though I have seen it done!:rolleyes:

It's stamped NR for Non-Reloadable on the headstamp.

I've bought the .45 230-gr version for under $14 a box, delivered... just before the "panic" and shortage started... and similar prices on the .40, but I've found similar deals on brass-cased reloadable ammo, too, but Before Panic/Shortage.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

How's that Aluminum case Blazer running in your CW? Saw some at a local Sportsman's Warehouse but passed on it because of the aluminum. $22.90 for 50 230 gr FMJ
I'm in the same boat with Wynn: I have had zero problems with Blazer aluminum case ammo in my CW45. I've shot quite a bit of it in other calibers as well with zero problems.
Regards,
Greg

[Mazinger]

I ran two mags worth of the nylon blazers on my PM45. No problems at all.

[dorangolv]

:oI think I might have fixed the problem(s) with my P45. Haven't had any failures of any kind since making these repairs.:eek::D:001_tt2::amflag:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21904

[Maverick21]

Hello, everyone,
I'm new to this forum (and forums in general), so forgive me if I post some things in the wrong place:confused:. I'm fairly new to Kahr firearms, but not to firearms in general. I'm retired after spending 31 years in law enforcement, carrying a Colt Combat Commander for most of those years. I carried varying flavors and calibers of revolvers before that. About a year ago, I purchased a used CW40 and fell in love with it. The only issue I have ever had with it was actually created by the original owner - he inserted the slide stop wrong and damaged the slide stop spring so that the slide locked back after every shot. I fixed that and it has run everything I put through it without a hiccup. My wife liked the CW40 (after carrying a Glock 19 for 22 years), but she didn't like the caliber. So about 3 weeks ago we purchased two Kahrs - she bought a CW9 and I bought a CW45. Which brings me to the reason I'm here.

I've seen a lot of great tips and advice here and other places, but I haven't seen my problem anywhere. My wife's CW9 seems to run great so far, but my CW45 doesn't. Here's the problem: I make sure the gun is unloaded and the empty magazine is removed. I pull the trigger and hold it back, the same as if I fired the weapon. Keeping the trigger held back, I rack the slide. It hangs up hard at the beginning, and if I pull hard enough I can move the slide all the way back. Also, if I release the trigger just slightly, whatever is catching isn't eliminated, but doesn't bind as bad, and I can move the slide all the way back. I can then move the slide forward again and release the trigger. The trigger resets fine. It's just the initial movement of the slide that's at issue. Something seems to be binding or stuck. When I shoot it, full power and +P loads cycle the action fine most of the time. With 30 rounds of the expensive stuff down range, I had 3 stovepipes and 2 to FTF (the empty ejected, but the slide didn't come back far enough to pick up a fresh round). Using cheaper, so-called target or practice rounds, none of them had enough power to overcome whatever is causing the slide to stick, so I had stovepipes or FTF on every shot (another 30 rounds).

I compared the CW40 and CW9 to the CW45 by holding the trigger back and racking the slide. The 40 and the 9 operate smoothly. I haven't taken the side plate off of the 45 yet to see if there's something rough or out of line on the trigger bar, but everything else appears normal. The trigger may move farther on the 45 than on the 40 and the 9 causing the cocking cam to come up more. If anyone else has experienced this, I'd like to know what you did to fix it. I'm open to suggestions, even if it requires sending it to Kahr for repair. At over a dollar a round for the full power rounds, I really don't want to break it in for 200 shots with that ammo. And not all of them worked anyway.

Thanks for any ideas or help, and once again, I apologize if I posted this in the wrong place, of if I should have started a new thread.

[gb6491]

Hello, everyone,
I'm new to this forum (and forums in general), so forgive me if I post some things in the wrong place:confused:. I'm fairly new to Kahr firearms, but not to firearms in general. I'm retired after spending 31 years in law enforcement, carrying a Colt Combat Commander for most of those years. I carried varying flavors and calibers of revolvers before that. About a year ago, I purchased a used CW40 and fell in love with it. The only issue I have ever had with it was actually created by the original owner - he inserted the slide stop wrong and damaged the slide stop spring so that the slide locked back after every shot. I fixed that and it has run everything I put through it without a hiccup. My wife liked the CW40 (after carrying a Glock 19 for 22 years), but she didn't like the caliber. So about 3 weeks ago we purchased two Kahrs - she bought a CW9 and I bought a CW45. Which brings me to the reason I'm here.

I've seen a lot of great tips and advice here and other places, but I haven't seen my problem anywhere. My wife's CW9 seems to run great so far, but my CW45 doesn't. Here's the problem: I make sure the gun is unloaded and the empty magazine is removed. I pull the trigger and hold it back, the same as if I fired the weapon. Keeping the trigger held back, I rack the slide. It hangs up hard at the beginning, and if I pull hard enough I can move the slide all the way back. Also, if I release the trigger just slightly, whatever is catching isn't eliminated, but doesn't bind as bad, and I can move the slide all the way back. I can then move the slide forward again and release the trigger. The trigger resets fine. It's just the initial movement of the slide that's at issue. Something seems to be binding or stuck. When I shoot it, full power and +P loads cycle the action fine most of the time. With 30 rounds of the expensive stuff down range, I had 3 stovepipes and 2 to FTF (the empty ejected, but the slide didn't come back far enough to pick up a fresh round). Using cheaper, so-called target or practice rounds, none of them had enough power to overcome whatever is causing the slide to stick, so I had stovepipes or FTF on every shot (another 30 rounds).

I compared the CW40 and CW9 to the CW45 by holding the trigger back and racking the slide. The 40 and the 9 operate smoothly. I haven't taken the side plate off of the 45 yet to see if there's something rough or out of line on the trigger bar, but everything else appears normal. The trigger may move farther on the 45 than on the 40 and the 9 causing the cocking cam to come up more. If anyone else has experienced this, I'd like to know what you did to fix it. I'm open to suggestions, even if it requires sending it to Kahr for repair. At over a dollar a round for the full power rounds, I really don't want to break it in for 200 shots with that ammo. And not all of them worked anyway.

Thanks for any ideas or help, and once again, I apologize if I posted this in the wrong place, of if I should have started a new thread.
Maverick21,
This thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21931
The problem described there seems similar to yours.
Regards,
Greg

[Maverick21]

Maverick21,
This thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21931
The problem described there seems similar to yours.
Regards,
Greg
Greg, Thank you for the link. That describes my problem. I guess I'll be contacting Kahr.

[gb6491]

Greg, Thank you for the link. That describes my problem. I guess I'll be contacting Kahr.
That's a good plan, still you might try swapping striker blocks between the .45 and the 9mm (same size block) to see if that helps (swapping out the block worked for me (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=279475&postcount=9)).
Regards,
Greg

Info on detail stripping the slide: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197

[Maverick21]

That's a good plan, still you might try swapping striker blocks between the .45 and the 9mm (same size block) to see if that helps (swapping out the block worked for me (http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=279475&postcount=9)).
Regards,
Greg

Info on detail stripping the slide: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197
Thanks, Greg. I did try that, only not from the CW9. I also have a CW40 not under warranty, and the striker block is the same. That seemed to help slightly, but didn't eliminate the problem:(. It almost seems like the trigger bar is moving too far and getting into a bind in the process. I contacted the dealer where I bought the CW45 (Sportsman's Warehouse) and the manager said they would return the gun to Kahr for me at no charge. Sportsman's wants to do whatever they can to make it right. Probably, since my wife and I bought 3 guns from them the same day (Kahr CW9, Kahr CW45 and Ruger SR1911). So I'll make a trip to Sportsman's and have them take care of it. I really appreciate your suggestions and all the tips and tricks posted here. Great place to spend some time!:D

[sharps_74]

I am new to this forum and would like to thank you folks for all the great information and for putting it in terms that are easily understood.

[trentu]

The missing slide notch:

Here are some photos to compliment Wynn's excellent post;
PM45 slide without the notch; notice damaged area (original photo posted by elars here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1144-pm45-issue.html) :
http://i40.tinypic.com/wu10z6.jpg
How correctly machined slides will look (my CW45 on the left and wyntourt's PM9, as posted here (http://kahrtalk.com/pm-series-pistols/1368-notch.html)):
http://i55.tinypic.com/20truok.jpg

The fix:
Send it back to Kahr for repair or as Wynn writes: "Some guys have chosen to "machine" that as it should be instead of sending it back to Kahr..."
IMO, a "Dremel" type tool or file would get the job done on a CW45, the metal is quite thin there.

Regards,
Greg

Thanks for posting this. I just thought it was a crappy milling job and did not realize I needed to mill it out. Surprising you need to finish stuff like this on a new gun.

[Tenesseerebel317]

Have a CW45 myself. Thanks for the helpful tips and suggestions.

[forkthem2002]

I have had a problem with most of my Kahrs over the years to the point where I said I will sell and never buy another Kahr product. Try and change recoil spring I am not going to give a # of rounds all may differ. and people who shoot know the best after market spring Co. I am not pushing for any one Co. Get recoil and mag. springs and 99% of the time all will be fine. Stop trying to be inventers just enjoy laying down some brass. JMO.

[Bawanna]

Ironically Kahr uses those best after market springs from that best after market springs Co. from the get go.

I do assume your talking about Wolff?

[kahrinca]

Last round jams:
The problem is very well documented in this post ( http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1290 ) by gj47 in regards to his PM45:
http://i38.tinypic.com/2z5pw6u.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/2vla3op.jpg
"The malfunctions occurred on the last round fired and cannot be cleared quickly. Notice that the casing was pulled into the mag feedlips and wedged into mag and ejection port area. The mag cannot be removed until the casing is pried out. The feed lips of this mag are now bulged about 6 thousandths."

My fix as posted on another forum:
“I've had two major issues with my CW45 and modifications to the magazine have fixed both.
FWIW, the other problem began at about the 500 round mark; the last round would fail to eject cleanly: sometimes getting jammed back down into the magazine. What I found was that the magazine lip on the ejector side was tipping the last round in the magazine slightly upward and slightly off the extractor before it got to the ejector in the ejection cycle. When this happens the case often does not clear the ejection port and gets driven back down into the magazine or barley ejects (more like falls). With rounds still in the magazine, spent casing are (usually) held high enough by the following rounds that this would rarely happen.
To counter this (a new extractor and spring might fix it), I decided to take some material off the magazine lip. I was pretty aggressive on the first magazine; I cycled a spent casing by hand and removed material until I felt the casing would stay in place long enough to hit the ejector. I took less off the next magazine and it seems to function fine. I imagine, with some patience and testing at different stages in the process that even less material would need to be removed. No more FTE issue with the modified magazines: also, they hold the rounds securely and I've had no feed issues with them (I've even dropped them a couple of times with no lost rounds).
Stock magazine and modified magazine (right):
http://i48.tinypic.com/2iuc9k8.jpg
Modified magazines: the second one done is in the background; the modification on it closely follows the contour of the stock feed lip on the other side of the magazine:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2wqgxdz.jpg
I'm not saying this will work for all; it's just something to consider if someone's gun is malfunctioning as described above (again, this just how I did it; not a "how to" article).”

to be continued...

Sorry, but I do not understand this post or the photos.

[gb6491]

Sorry, but I do not understand this post or the photos.
I was having problems with the case from the last round in a magazine ejecting properly, What I found was that the case was hitting the magazine lip and being knocked from the extractor's grip before it reached the ejector. A new extractor or spring may have fixed this, but I chose to modify the magazines by removing a little material at the place the case was hitting. In the photo below, the red arrow is pointing at the spot on an unmodified magazine, the green arrow points to where the material was removed on a modified magazine.
http://i59.tinypic.com/2hdbt3c.jpg
It' pretty much a moot point for me now, as I seldom use Kahr magazines in my CW45.
Hope that helps some.
Regards,
Greg

[kahrinca]

Well, thanks for getting back to me with some clarification.

WADR, I can't make heads or tails of most of the fixes recommended on the forum. My mechanical ability is admittedly not high.

In particular, the MAGAZINE FIX recommended by jocko at the end of first post in proper prep of a new Kahr.

I tried to follow the instructions there, tried to interpret what he was saying, I still don't know exactly what he meant re sanding 'what part' of the right side of the follower.

I just basically sanded the entire right side of the follower (NOT the side where magazine 'pin' is located) on all three Kahr magazines that came with my new PM9 purchased the other day. Gun has not been shot yet.

Started with 500 grit because I could not locate 600 or higher, which I know that I have 'somewhere'. But then I came to conclusion that he implied that one should start with much lower grit and then smooth out with 600 or higher. In any event, I found that it was not an easy fix at all. And I had difficulty finding and understanding the other 'fix' referenced.

I got sick and tired of sanding. None of the three magazines ever passed the 'stripped magazine in the gun test' where spring and follower should not encounter resistance caused by the mag catch.

Very frustrated. I did however notice a lessening of resistance, slightly.

Whatever, just going to shoot the darn thing in the next couple of days. I will be very tolerant of problems encountered during break-in, and hope for the best

I owned a CW9 previously for about 5 years. I liked it a lot, but always wanted a PM9 due to its superior pocketability.

Update: since this post, I ascertained that I was sanding the wrong area on the right side of the follower.

This is from a subsequent post on another thread:

Update: Perhaps I misunderstood where to sand it. Now I am thinking that it's really the front part of the right side of the follower that should have been sanded down. That is the part of the follower that shows in the magazine slot opening located on the side of the magazine tube, more or less AS STATED by Jocko. I'm going to try it. I originally sanded the right side of the follower from about midpoint on to the rear. Duh! Now I realize its really the side of the right 'leg' that drops down!!!

Update: "The gun has yet to be fired.

Difficulty solved. Sand the area on front right side of the follower, e.g., the 'leg' that drops down. Actually sanding the edge of the leg, perhaps a bit above it as well.

Only takes a minute or two or a few minutes as stated. I used 500 grit because I did not have 600.

Worked well with my 7-rd extended magazine for the PM9. Now I've done it on the followers for the 6-rd magazines, which took me longer going back and forth to check in seated tube, no idea why, don't care.

Anyway, that's at least one potential problem solved- the follower should not hang-up on the mag catch during the last rounds.

200 round break-in would likely resolve this on its own, but who needs those type of jams, anyway? I certainly can do without them if I can help n*i*p* them in the bud.

Thanks, jocko and Kahrtalk! Much appreciated!"

[Bawanna]

Most likely your gun will not require any of the prep stuff mentioned. Most run just fine out of the box.

You've done your due diligence and are tolerant and ready to tweek as needed. you most likely won't have to do anything but buy more ammo. At least this is my hope.

Don't worry until you actually have something to worry about and then there will be lots of help here to help you figure it out.

We like good everything went perfect reports, so strive for one of those if you can.

[kahrinca]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, and I look forward to participating on the forum again.

It's my intent to prep this PM9 as much as I can to reduce chances of frustration during the break-in.

Maybe it will work just fine.

I do recall that I had had INITIAL problems with the CW9. I'm going back about 7 years.

Mag(s) would drop after firing, and there was something about a spring down in the mag well, must've been a latch/catch spring, and I think Kahr had sent me a
stronger one, that I had my gunsmith install..that seemed to resolve the problem.

Not once did I disassemble the magazines, the 7-rd that came with the gun and the 8-rd that I had purchased, and, yes, I had more jamming problems with the latter. I owned the CW9 for five years and had complete confidence in its reliability after I shot it about 200-300 rounds- don't recall exactly.

I sold my totally reliable Shield in order to help fund this new PM9. Little doubt in my mind that the Shield's reliability is superior to the Kahr PM9, at least initially, but too heavy and a bit large for pocket carry, which I prefer. The PM9, imo, is the best for the money pocket 9mm approved for sale in CA. Also, I am a left-handed shooter, and pleased that I don't have to deal with a safety designed for right-handers.

I had to drive 75 miles round-trip twice in order to get it. The store's Anniversary Sale price was just too good to pass on it.

[martkin64]

Thank you for the Pics.. I know you put this up a while ago but it can be a useful tool for quick fixes..... Thanx for all the effort you put into this..... Love my CW45!!!!!

[Brettman]

I have a cw45 have put many rounds through it, even used it to qaulify in NRA pistol instructor course. Only thing I've had to do is polish guide rod.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Jayman931]

Thanks for all the info gents. Just took possession of a new CW45. Until this last pic I didn't realize that the "notch" was supposed to be there on all of them. Well mine had no "notch" but I prepped it per instructions elsewhere on this forum and put about 120 rounds through it. Ran pretty well with one light primer strike, one stovepipe and several FTRB. However the FTRB's were my fault as they were with very light reloads (4.0 grn Bullseye over 200 LSWC). The only reason I tried them was I was short on FMJ rounds.

All in all I put 50 of the 230 Rem Golden Saber, 40 Win Whitebox 230 and 40 light reloads.

When I stripped it after the range visit I saw the damage. I was really not looking forward to sending it back so I gave it a go with my MiniMill and a 3/16" endmill. Came out great. Cleaned it up with a cratex tip in the dremel and all is good.

I also had the very very sharp corner on the barrel hood so I took care of that with the cratex as well.

Thanks for all your help guys, you are a world of knowledge!

BTW, really like this gun. Can't believe how controllable it is shooting 45 acp rounds. Hopefully they will get their quality control working right.

Dave D




Should a Kahr P45 have this notch also? I recently bought a P45 a week and a half ago and just finished tearing her down...cleaning/oiling her, prepping for a range day to break her in. My "new" P45 was manufactured in 2012...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4350/36806142871_f6bcfbe0c4_b.jpg

[Bawanna]

Yes it probably should and you'll know as soon as the gravel pit dries out enough to shoot.

It's a simple fix. You'll see that area battered a little bit. Just need to create a little half moon for clearance.

Dremel makes it easy, a file will work, or if you shoot it enough it will take care of itself. You can just pretty it up a bit.

[Jayman931]

I was hoping that wasn't the case but secretly I think I knew. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge :) I'll bring my cordless Dremel to the range.