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View Full Version : Swapping pistols at the range leads to Envy



xb12s
09-12-2012, 02:27 PM
I have a Kahr PM9 that is my usual EDC. Sometimes a full size 1911 is in the rotation. Anyway, I have a shooting buddy that tried out my PM9 at the range a few months back. He found a sale at a LGS about two months ago and he bought a CW9. We both shot it at the range and he really liked it. I honestly didn't notice a whole lot of difference between it and the PM9 (accuracy, recoil, feel, whatever). A week later we went to a Gun Show and he bought a CW45 also that was a terrific deal. We took it to the range last Friday. Wow. I have got to have one. Love it. Recoil was not bad at all. I don't know what I was expecting - maybe something similar to my M&P40 compact. But it was better - less felt recoil, nice and tight action on the slide.

Any of you guys who have carried both the Kahr 9mm and a Kahr 45 -- please comment on how the difference in width/size feels when you carry the two.

I had been tempted to go the route of an alloy commander or CCO 1911, but after shooting the CW45, I don't feel the need to shell out that much cash. I am also tempted to do a TP45 grip conversion to cut it down to CW45 grip length (closest approximation to a CCO). The XD-s also has my attention too, but I'd prefer to get an M&P Shield if they came out with a 45 over the Croatian sensation XD-s. Thoughts?

CJB
09-12-2012, 02:48 PM
I regularly carry the PM45, daily, nightly... almost everywhere. It rides in my right front pocket. On occasion, the PM9 goes there, but only when I've got shorts on with shallow pockets. I prefer the 45, but the 9 will do when it has to.

Size, ... yah the 9 is smaller. But the 45 is no deal breaker.

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 02:58 PM
Ditto that for me. I used to carry my K40 all the time but then graduated to the PM45. It's on my ankle or on my belt at all times. The PM was actually a weight improvement over the very nice all steel 40.

I wouldn't change a thing for my needs and applications.

jocko
09-12-2012, 03:59 PM
graduated from a K40 to a PM45?????. what school, kindergarden. reform school more than likely.. Just sayin. 45 just alittle bigger hole, than the 40, slower than milk out of a boar,, 45 bullet proof vests made out of recycled cigarette packs. gosh I am gonna run, no, I will ride it is faster straight to gander mt and get one of those miracle 45's. Just sayin. . thanks greatone for finally convincing me!!!!!

CJB
09-12-2012, 04:07 PM
Hey, think of cool guys, what did they carry?
I don't mean semi-cool wannabee's like James Bond. I mean the REALLY cool guys.

What did Sam Spade carry? A 45.
What did Indiana Jones carry? A 45 (revolver)

I see Bogey using a 38 or 9 as a weapon of last resort or opportunity, not choice....

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 04:25 PM
graduated from a K40 to a PM45?????. what school, kindergarden. reform school more than likely.. Just sayin. 45 just alittle bigger hole, than the 40, slower than milk out of a boar,, 45 bullet proof vests made out of recycled cigarette packs. gosh I am gonna run, no, I will ride it is faster straight to gander mt and get one of those miracle 45's. Just sayin. . thanks greatone for finally convincing me!!!!!

My life is complete. I'm ready to go now. Just think, another advantage is you can load your mags without putting on your bifocals to see them tiny little bullets you carry now.

A win win situation to be sure. Don't forget some lube if your going to Gander. I never been in one but I'm told they don't give stuff away without some sort of relationship.

beatlesfan
09-12-2012, 04:34 PM
My life is complete. I'm ready to go now. Just think, another advantage is you can load your mags without putting on your bifocals to see them tiny little bullets you carry now.

A win win situation to be sure. Don't forget some lube if your going to Gander. I never been in one but I'm told they don't give stuff away without some sort of relationship.

That's one advantage I have with being young. I can still see the .380 and 9mm rounds I load into my ppk/s, T9, and Sig. :D I digress though, when carrying my Gov't 1911 there is a certain sense of security. "Oh look, that moose is trying to rob me, no worries, I have 230grn. .45's!

jocko
09-12-2012, 04:35 PM
Hey, think of cool guys, what did they carry?
I don't mean semi-cool wannabee's like James Bond. I mean the REALLY cool guys.

What did Sam Spade carry? A 45.
What did Indiana Jones carry? A 45 (revolver)

I see Bogey using a 38 or 9 as a weapon of last resort or opportunity, not choice....

cool people carry kahr 45's

Rosie, Odonnell, Ellen Degenerate, Kim bastion (she is my gay neighbor about 4 houses down) Silvia cuntworthy. Rosie's new wife.

Just sayin.

Oh yeah their cool alright:D

xb12s
09-12-2012, 05:02 PM
graduated from a K40 to a PM45?????. what school, kindergarden. reform school more than likely.. Just sayin. 45 just alittle bigger hole, than the 40, slower than milk out of a boar,, 45 bullet proof vests made out of recycled cigarette packs. gosh I am gonna run, no, I will ride it is faster straight to gander mt and get one of those miracle 45's. Just sayin. . thanks greatone for finally convincing me!!!!!

Uh... I didn't realize my thread would start a .40 vs .45 war between the old married couple. Actually I'm not even sure that's what happened. Maybe I can get Wyntrout to respond to the question... :-)

Jocko I'm not even sure I can translate everything you said in your first post, but I don't know if boar milk would be very tastey, and I don't smoke or fabricate my own vests. If I did make my own vests they'd look like Will Schuster's ... or not. I'm sure you're up on your Glee celebrity fashion. :-P

I haven't been around on the forum long enough to know what your position is on the calibers, but that's not really what I'm asking about here.

beatlesfan
09-12-2012, 05:06 PM
Uh... I didn't realize my thread would start a .40 vs .45 war between the old married couple. Actually I'm not even sure that's what happened. Maybe I can get Wyntrout to respond to the question... :-)

Jocko I'm not even sure I can translate everything you said in your first post, but I don't know if boar milk would be very tastey, and I don't smoke or fabricate my own vests. If I did make my own vests they'd look like Will Schuster's ... or not. I'm sure you're up on your Glee celebrity fashion. :-P

I haven't been around on the forum long enough to know what your position is on the calibers, but that's not really what I'm asking about here.

Firstly, welcome to the forum! You'll quickly realize that all of us thread jack(steal a thread to post whatever you want), it's not meant as disrespect, it's just our thing lol.

You'll soon see that this forum is full of very knowledgeable people who are all very nice. Again, welcome!

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 05:11 PM
Uh... I didn't realize my thread would start a .40 vs .45 war between the old married couple. Actually I'm not even sure that's what happened. Maybe I can get Wyntrout to respond to the question... :-)

Jocko I'm not even sure I can translate everything you said in your first post, but I don't know if boar milk would be very tastey, and I don't smoke or fabricate my own vests. If I did make my own vests they'd look like Will Schuster's ... or not. I'm sure you're up on your Glee celebrity fashion. :-P

I haven't been around on the forum long enough to know what your position is on the calibers, but that's not really what I'm asking about here.

I have no idea what you just said but going back and reading your original post prior to Mr. Thread Jack taking the ball and running with it.

You mentioned carrying a full size 1911 and a PM9. The CW45 of course falls in between those two. The CW to me would work well for CCW, the PM45 is closer to the PM9 but a little wider and slightly longer.
Many here have and love their CW45's. Either would make a good gap filler between the PM9 and the full size 1911.

Is this any closer to answering your question?

xb12s
09-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Firstly, welcome to the forum! You'll quickly realize that all of us thread jack(steal a thread to post whatever you want), it's not meant as disrespect, it's just our thing lol.

You'll soon see that this forum is full of very knowledgeable people who are all very nice. Again, welcome!

I don't mind the thread jacking actually. I've been around here long enough to appreciate the banter and the personalities of the frequent posters.

JFootin
09-12-2012, 05:26 PM
I have no idea what you just said but going back and reading your original post prior to Mr. Thread Jack taking the ball and running with it.

You mentioned carrying a full size 1911 and a PM9. The CW45 of course falls in between those two. The CW to me would work well for CCW, the PM45 is closer to the PM9 but a little wider and slightly longer.
Many here have and love their CW45's. Either would make a good gap filler between the PM9 and the full size 1911.

Is this any closer to answering your question?

Thanks, Bawanna, for getting the thread back on track. You and Jocko need to kiss and make peace.

I think that the CW45 is one of the best bargains on the gun market today because it is one of the best 45s to carry or shoot—period, and the price is fantastic! If I was better off financially, I'd already have one! But I am anxious to see the CM45 hit the market, although I am tempted by the XDs. LOL! :D Do you think there is a 45 in my future?

jocko
09-12-2012, 05:29 PM
ugh, kiss and make peace. sound slike Rosie and Ellen degenrate back room stuff. Ugh!!! Just sayin. U can't make peace but u can end the war, ask the Japs that. Just sayin.

xb12s
09-12-2012, 05:33 PM
You mentioned carrying a full size 1911 and a PM9. The CW45 of course falls in between those two. The CW to me would work well for CCW, the PM45 is closer to the PM9 but a little wider and slightly longer.
Many here have and love their CW45's. Either would make a good gap filler between the PM9 and the full size 1911.

Is this any closer to answering your question?

I recognize that the CW45 is inbetween and I guess I can comprehend the difference in thickness (0.9" thk vs 1.06"?), but I wonder how different that really feels. The 1911 feels nice and thin across the slide, but the grips are beefier and poke out at the shirt a bit on the govt model.

The PM9 disappears and feels very comfy IWB. It's a bit chunky for me in the pocket, but I make it work that way sometimes. I would expect the extra bulk and size of the CW45 to be too much for me in the pocket (I'm slim - 5'-11, 168lb). I'm wondering if the extra width on the CW45 would feel so much bulkier than the PM9 or 1911 IWB.

xb12s
09-12-2012, 05:37 PM
jocko, what kind of bike is that in your avatar? Harley? Yamaha? What am I doing? This will only further derail my post... it looks like you started riding pretty young. ;)

jocko
09-12-2012, 05:39 PM
before diaplers were made. I can attest that it is not a Yammaha, Just sayin

jocko
09-12-2012, 05:41 PM
I recognize that the CW45 is inbetween and I guess I can comprehend the difference in thickness (0.9" thk vs 1.06"?), but I wonder how different that really feels. The 1911 feels nice and thin across the slide, but the grips are beefier and poke out at the shirt a bit on the govt model.

The PM9 disappears and feels very comfy IWB. It's a bit chunky for me in the pocket, but I make it work that way sometimes. I would expect the extra bulk and size of the CW45 to be too much for me in the pocket (I'm slim - 5'-11, 168lb). I'm wondering if the extra width on the CW45 would feel so much bulkier than the PM9 or 1911 IWB.

that is about my build to the pound even and I pocket carry my PM9 in my jeans front pocket WHERE EVER I go. Prints nadda IMO. never been challenged. Not a fast draw area but again that worrys me nadda to. At least I am carrying and need not dress to carry. Just sayin.:eek:

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 05:44 PM
I agree on the feel of the 1911. A bobtail job and a set of thin grips will put a whole new meaning to that. Course being tall, thin air at 5'11, I'm only 5'6 and closer to 200 (think fire plug on wheels) you might have large enough hands that you wouldn't like the bob tail feel.

But many even with big hands like the thin grips.

I love Jocko, he just hates me, this is a one way Hatfields and McCoys thing. I'm his biggest fan and also his biggest target. I may turn his avatar into a Hodaka Combat Wombat. I flat tracked one back in the day for you historical buffs.

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 05:45 PM
Jocko's 5'11 too, I didn't know they stacked....................I just never figured him for that tall.

Tinman507
09-12-2012, 05:47 PM
http://fitzhenrymac.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/baby-with-gun.png?w=640

xb12s
09-12-2012, 05:50 PM
I used to ride a Yamaha V-Star Classic (my first bike). Then a Buell Lightning (hence the XB12S). It's a shame Harley dumped the Buell brand. Getting parts from HD is a pain now.

Bawanna
09-12-2012, 05:53 PM
WTH, I thought we were talking about skinny 1911's on girls with no chest. You guys jacked my thread, oh this wasn't my thread, where the heck am I and why am I in this basket.

jocko
09-12-2012, 05:56 PM
I used to ride a Yamaha V-Star Classic (my first bike). Then a Buell Lightning (hence the XB12S). It's a shame Harley dumped the Buell brand. Getting parts from HD is a pain now.

but Harley had no business with the buying of the Buell brand, it was what it was a nice bike that could not run with damn near any crotch rocket and about twice the price. They screwed up 15 years ago when Ducati was on the market (cheap). Ducati people are as loyal as Harley riders, also a great bike to.So what did they do, they went out about 10 years ago and bought MV AUGUSTA who doesnt make a bike under 30K, let alone any dealer network in the U. S and then a few years back peddling it back to MV AUGUSTA orignal owner for a steal. Stick to what u do best. Kahr has followed that line since birth.

Nothing wrong witht he Buell line, erik was a genious but just was never accepted by the crotchers and 8-10K units a year was just a real drag on Harley's bottom line.

JFootin
09-12-2012, 06:40 PM
The PM9 disappears and feels very comfy IWB. It's a bit chunky for me in the pocket, but I make it work that way sometimes. I would expect the extra bulk and size of the CW45 to be too much for me in the pocket (I'm slim - 5'-11, 168lb). I'm wondering if the extra width on the CW45 would feel so much bulkier than the PM9 or 1911 IWB.

Barth needs to chime in here. He has a thin waistline, though I don't think he is that tall. But he can sure carry some large ordinance on his waist and cover it with just a black T-shirt.

I don't own a CW45, or a 45 for that matter, so I'll let some more experienced members chime in such as O'Dell, Greg, et al. In my mind, the CW45 is still a thin gun, much more so than a Glock or other double stack guns. One of the keys is a good gun belt to keep the gun up tight against your body. One size larger shirts help, too.

The best pocket holster I found for my CM9 is the El Paso Pocket Max. No printing in my jeans when standing. Very comfortable. Still a big bulge when sitting, so I don't try to carry it that way anymore. I now carry it in a PJ IWB Holster just behind my hip, where it hides real well and is 100% comfortable.

josp
09-12-2012, 08:02 PM
I carry a P45 daily iwb, or owb, depending on the fit of the pants that day. I'm also 5'11", but haven't seen 165 since my army days. I run 220 now. I recently "coverted" my P45 ( see thread in this forum) and that made allthe difference on the world for deep concealment.

CJB
09-12-2012, 08:48 PM
cool people carry kahr 45's

Rosie, Odonnell, Ellen Degenerate, Kim bastion (she is my gay neighbor about 4 houses down) Silvia cuntworthy. Rosie's new wife.

Just sayin.

Oh yeah their cool alright:D

No bro, they all know that BOGEY is cool... and are emulating him, as their role model.

gb6491
09-12-2012, 09:36 PM
...

Any of you guys who have carried both the Kahr 9mm and a Kahr 45 -- please comment on how the difference in width/size feels when you carry the two.

I had been tempted to go the route of an alloy commander or CCO 1911, but after shooting the CW45, I don't feel the need to shell out that much cash. I am also tempted to do a TP45 grip conversion to cut it down to CW45 grip length (closest approximation to a CCO). The XD-s also has my attention too, but I'd prefer to get an M&P Shield if they came out with a 45 over the Croatian sensation XD-s. Thoughts?
I have a CW9 and a CW45. The size difference is noticeable in your hand with the CW9 feeling more svelte. The difference on your belt/IWB is not as great and is also affected by the holster (build/style), belt (to a lesser degree), and the position you carry. All those being equal, you might notice a small difference, but not enough (IMO) to choose one over the other based on size. Weight is a factor to consider. The CW9 is lighter and though the difference doesn't seem to be much, I've noticed it after a day hiking in the desert. Where the CW45 shines is in comparison to a favorite of mine, the Colt Officer's ACP. The guns are about the same size, but the difference in weight falls clearly in favor of the CW45 for a day's worth of pistol packing. As the XD-S is mentioned, I carry mine in the same holster I use for my CW45, so it's slightly smaller width (when compared to the CW45) is negated. The length of the XD-S handle might matter in some scenarios, but then you have an additional round with the CW45. They weigh about the same.
I like all of them.
CW9 and CW45
http://i51.tinypic.com/xbwas.jpg
CW45 and Colt OACP
http://oi39.tinypic.com/1zgqj9j.jpg
XD-S and CW45
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zmgmq1.jpg
A few smaller pistols for comparison
http://i56.tinypic.com/xnribm.jpg
Regards,
Greg

otium
09-12-2012, 10:06 PM
The cw45 is plenty thin, shoots great and accurate. I carry both this and the cm9. I find the cw45 has more heft and I get a full grip on it. The cm9 is the two finger grip so for me the cw45 tends to be a little more accurate than the cm9. I'm still on target with either, but the cw45 tends to clump the holes closer together.

The 4" height of the cm9 makes it easy to conceal, so it gets the nod when the clothing is on the lighter side like shorts and t-shirt weather. The overall height of the cw45 at 4.8" makes it better suited for me, towards "more clothing" weather.

I'd think the pm45 with it's height at 4.5" would work very well and might be ok in the warmer weather like the cm9, but don't have an example to compare against it.

The XDS looks nice, but it's still pretty new and have not seen one to buy at the LGS yet. Did get to hold one that was already sold and it was ok. Not sure if all the bugs are worked out of it or not yet. Seems all makers of small formats require some time to sort the issues out.

Guess I will likely end up with a cm45 if/when Kahr ever releases one. There is increasing competition developing in the .45 subcompact range now, so hope they get something out the door sooner rather than later.

O'Dell
09-12-2012, 10:41 PM
Thanks, Bawanna, for getting the thread back on track. You and Jocko need to kiss and make peace.



I can't speak for Bawanna, but I ain't kissing Jocko!

O'Dell
09-12-2012, 10:46 PM
but Harley had no business with the buying of the Buell brand, it was what it was a nice bike that could not run with damn near any crotch rocket and about twice the price. They screwed up 15 years ago when Ducati was on the market (cheap). Ducati people are as loyal as Harley riders, also a great bike to.So what did they do, they went out about 10 years ago and bought MV AUGUSTA who doesnt make a bike under 30K, let alone any dealer network in the U. S and then a few years back peddling it back to MV AUGUSTA orignal owner for a steal. Stick to what u do best. Kahr has followed that line since birth.

Nothing wrong witht he Buell line, erik was a genious but just was never accepted by the crotchers and 8-10K units a year was just a real drag on Harley's bottom line.

Hey, you finally posted a motorcycle comment that I agree with. I've been wanting a V-Twin sportbike for some time and I plan to visit my Ducati dealer this weekend. My son really wants the CBR600 and it's time to let him have it.

O'Dell
09-12-2012, 11:04 PM
I had a PM45 until some punk stole it along with 14 other guns. Right now I'm carrying a CW45 most of the time while I'm waiting on the CM45. I have 4 compact 1911's, but I prefer the lightweight Kahr. If I must carry a pocket gun it's my PM9, but I like the 45 ACP. The PM45 is a tad large for a pants pocket, but it works well in a Jacket.

Someone mentioned frame size and I'm 6 ft, 165 pounds. I don't have a problem with a full size lightweight 1911 or my P220 or any of my pistols, if I can cover the gun. The only one I don't ever carry is the USP 40 because that's my HD weapon.

xb12s
09-13-2012, 08:53 AM
I have a CW9 and a CW45. The size difference is noticeable in your hand with the CW9 feeling more svelte. The difference on your belt/IWB is not as great and is also affected by the holster (build/style), belt (to a lesser degree), and the position you carry. All those being equal, you might notice a small difference, but not enough (IMO) to choose one over the other based on size. Weight is a factor to consider. The CW9 is lighter and though the difference doesn't seem to be much, I've noticed it after a day hiking in the desert. Where the CW45 shines is in comparison to a favorite of mine, the Colt Officer's ACP. The guns are about the same size, but the difference in weight falls clearly in favor of the CW45 for a day's worth of pistol packing. As the XD-S is mentioned, I carry mine in the same holster I use for my CW45, so it's slightly smaller width (when compared to the CW45) is negated. The length of the XD-S handle might matter in some scenarios, but then you have an additional round with the CW45. They weigh about the same.
I like all of them.
CW9 and CW45
http://i51.tinypic.com/xbwas.jpg
CW45 and Colt OACP
http://oi39.tinypic.com/1zgqj9j.jpg
XD-S and CW45
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zmgmq1.jpg
A few smaller pistols for comparison
http://i56.tinypic.com/xnribm.jpg
Regards,
Greg


Thanks Greg. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

xb12s
09-13-2012, 08:56 AM
I had a PM45 until some punk stole it along with 14 other guns. Right now I'm carrying a CW45 most of the time while I'm waiting on the CM45. I have 4 compact 1911's, but I prefer the lightweight Kahr. If I must carry a pocket gun it's my PM9, but I like the 45 ACP. The PM45 is a tad large for a pants pocket, but it works well in a Jacket.

Someone mentioned frame size and I'm 6 ft, 165 pounds. I don't have a problem with a full size lightweight 1911 or my P220 or any of my pistols, if I can cover the gun. The only one I don't ever carry is the USP 40 because that's my HD weapon.

15 guns!!??! That sucks. Take your whole safe or something?

I've been tempted to get a lightweight 1911 (probably a commander), but the CW45 is so much more affordable.

jocko
09-13-2012, 10:27 AM
Hey, you finally posted a motorcycle comment that I agree with. I've been wanting a V-Twin sportbike for some time and I plan to visit my Ducati dealer this weekend. My son really wants the CBR600 and it's time to let him have it.

my comments please people who don't agree with me, but I try to be honest to. Just sayin