Added true picatinny rail to my CW4543

[FooFoo502]

Just thought I'd post up about my latest mod to my new little buddy. I love this gun, but every gun I have I either bought stock or had customized for real world encounters and every day carry...so the lack of night sights or rails on my CW45 bothered me a bit. Before I bought it, I looked over the schematics to see if it was even doable and it is...easily.

First, I bought a set of Millet SB00711 Aluminum two piece base because the slight curvature on the mounting surface was almost perfectly aligned to the curvature of the CW receiver, and one piece of the set fit perfectly between the trigger guard and the barrel shroud.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hrFQ1XFnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Next, bought a few different length flat head SS hex bolts in size 6-32 not sure what length would be needed, as the base had to be mounted at an angle to make up for the slant in the receiver.
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f1j00DChasISynPcz/Hexagon-Flat-Head-Machine-Screw.jpg

Next, marked and drilled an appropriate sized hole to allow for the use of a #6-32 tap set bit, making sure that the serial number inset tab was untouched.

After attaching some black, solid foam adhesive in a decreasing depth from from front of the base to back, I mounted the base to the receiver and marked the screws from the inside. I then cut them down and after remounting them, I used the Dremel to grind, then sand them flush to the receiver so as to ensure the screws would not interfere with the action of the slide.

Last step was to dab a little bit of red lock tight on the threads and secure them snugly so they were exactly flush while keeping the base plate completely immobile. Then took it to the range and put about a hundred rounds through it and confirmed the rail nor the screws moved at all. Next step will be to try it out with my Surefire and then the new micro laser I'm waiting on.

I would obviously preferred to have had the screws in the same matte black, but they only had light colored SS at the D&G hardware. However, I do have the right screws in route from ebay and wuill change them over asap.

For those curious, although the serial numbers are obstructed, the are not permanently so and the numbers have not been touched. As long as they are accessible for examination, this is perfectly legal here in Florida but I would check your local regs before doing this kind of mod
http://imageshack.us/a/img696/1620/img8222x.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/img8222x.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img155/8769/img8220cn.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/img8220cn.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/5920/img8218pm.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/img8218pm.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img513/9558/img8217xi.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/img8217xi.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/2395/img8216e.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/img8216e.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/a/img833/6627/img8214c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/img8214c.jpg/)

[wyntrout]

Are the screws anchored or threaded into plastic only? The Red Loctite could be a problem if you have to remove the screws. You'll probably have a bigger hole when the threads in the plastic come loose with the Loctite!:eek:

Loctite is not supposed to be used with polymer/plastic stuff. The bond is stronger than the material.

Did you happen to take pictures of the serial number, not that anyone would accept that as proof, though?

Wynn

[gb6491]

Wow, that is very innovative and well executed.

Wynn,
I'm guessing those screws thread into the metal insert for the rails.
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

That would be a good trick... to hit metal, and especially, enough to actually "thread" it.

The metal part for the embedded rails is very "cut out". See the patent drawings.

The project looks great, but if seeing the serial number is ever a problem... ouch!

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

Wow, learn something new every day. I thought there was a strip down the center line on the bottom of the dust cover. Would be a can't miss deal.

Obviously I got bad information as your pictures show it quite skeletonized.

[jocko]

really no eed to make it totally solid, the way it is made itis just as strong as one complete peace,only lighter,which was kahrs goal. Kahr could easily tap and thread these dust covers and offer the rail asan accessory. the fella did nice work. Not sure I would want arail on any ofmy kahrs, especially my PM9 which right now is pocketable,just add a rail one never knows. but as an accessory rail now ur gettig somewhere. thsoe that wantit can haveit, theose that done, just don't. I personally woldlike the choiceof a rail or not a rail.

yes bawanna u learn sumptinnew every day,we all do.

[gb6491]

That would be a good trick... to hit metal, and especially, enough to actually "thread" it.

The metal part for the embedded rails is very "cut out". See the patent drawings.

The project looks great, but if seeing the serial number is ever a problem... ouch!

Wynn:)
Thanks for posting that Wynn. Taking those drawings into considerationhttp://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-gen017.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php), I totally concur with your assessment:yo:
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

It still looks great and I hope that it holds up with a light, laser, or combo when firing.

Wynn:)

[FooFoo502]

There was a thin strip of metal when I drilled and was just enough to allow the tap to start a thread for the screw to take. As for the thread lock fluids, I said the red but I meant the #1401 made for plastic to metal bonding. I use the red so much around here I just wrote it down without thinking..lol. Oops. Thanks for clearing that up for me. As for imput, I truly am not thin skinned so any advice, observations or comments are absolutely welcome. The only way to never fail is to never try and the only way to learn from mistakes is to make them. Glad you guys liked the concept.

[Bawanna]

Dang, all the mistakes I've made in my time you'd think I'd be somebody by now but I'm still making mistakes one at a time consistently.

That's an excellent philosophy though. Usually if I goof more than once it's at least a variation on the same theme.

[LorenzoB]

Awesome work! I like!

[Charlie98]

Theoretically, you could mill a port in the rail so the SN could be observed without removing the rail...

Nice job... well thought out.

Kahr could easily modify the rail insert to include structure for mounting a rail, or even make it with 2 threaded holes and include (or make available) a properly contured rail. Neat idea.

[jlottmc]

I was thinking move the S/N tag, but a cut out to view it sounds much better. Wouldn't take that long even with hand tools. Maybe, just maybe I'll try that AFTER I make sure the S/N is visible.
My other thoughts were why? I figured out a way to run a light and do it with any gun regardless of a rail or not. I changed my light technique. Only downside is that it requires both hands. There are plenty of upsides though.
Nice work regardless.
One more thing, 6/32 threads? That's pretty big for the application. I was thinking of mounting a top rail on my shot gun and was going to use 4/32 for that. Problem I'm encountering is that an aluminum receiver is not a good idea to thread directly, and Heli-Coil doesn't make inserts that small. Lowes sells a 4/32 tap (TiNitrate coated) for cheap. Just a thought for your next project.

[wyntrout]

I think that you would break all kinds of laws if you go moving a serial number!:eek: As for threading those small cross members, you might be weakening the rails' support and causing eventual failure.

Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

That's kind of debatable Wynn. On the one hand moving the S/N is altering it, on the other if done right, who is to say that it was moved? I don't think those cross members will be weakened too much. I really can't see them bearing that much stress, and see them more as getting the right space between the rails, and keeping it. Even shooting with the screws out, there isn't that much stress side to side were the cross members are.

[jocko]

Just my opinion but I would thinkif the serial numbers were covered with that mount that when demanded etc, the mount is taken off and the serial umberts are right where they should be. I realy would think it would be a hard case tomake that one altered the serial numbers by making a pount that covered it but yet was still accessible. again IMO not worth arguing about...

[Bawanna]

We encounter it all the time with Remington 870's. Put a side saddle on and it covers the serial numbers. A pain even with our police guns, can't tell for sure which is which without taking the darn side saddle off.

Usually it's not a big deal, some officers get all overwrought over it, some insist that you must carry tools to remove something that covers a serial number.

Had one sieze a gun cause he couldn't see the serial number and hence check for stolen. I asked why he thought it was stolen and he had no reason, just saw the shotgun I believe it was during a traffic stop.

Asked what we should do I told him I was giving it back and I wasn't removing anything to see the serial number.

[jocko]

I really don't see a legal violation here. No one altered the serial number. It is there . I remember well the side plate on the 870's and ur right, as bad as I hate to admit it....

[wyntrout]

I was talking about the act of removing... moving the serial number plate. This was molded into the plastic in a specific location. You can't legally move such things about without legal complications. Those things are mandated by laws and regulations... not wherever YOU want to put them. It would be like cutting one out of a steel gun and just welding it somewhere else.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

Ok I thought we were talkingaobut just covering up the serial number with like the rail, or a side plate on a shotgun etc. not moving it around. No doubt that would be totally illeal.

[powwowell]

What innovative thinking FooFoo502. Kahr may pick up on this and offer it in the future?

It's my humble opinion that as long as the serial number is not altered, or moved, you are OK. I think it's VERY important that the pseudo rail can be removed quickly and conveniently, for some of our impatient officers. And, I'm not saying that there have ever been any impatient officers. If I did, say that, I retract it.

[FooFoo502]

Just to clarify, although I didn't say so before, I spent 15 years in law enforcement here in Florida with six of those as a sergeant in charge of our tactical unit and vicap unit. I've seized literally thousands of firearms over the years and often times, had to deal directly with the ATF in defining exactly what constitutes violations pertaining to serial numbers. As was explained to me by them and by more than a few Florida assistant state attorneys, it is the intentional removal, altering, defacing or changing of the actual numbers contained in the serial number with the intent to render the firearm untraceable that is illegal. There are no federal stipulations on where a manufacturers must place a serial number, only that it be affixed in a permanent manner and where is readily accessible for purposes of inspection to verify said numbers. There is nothing illegal about covering the numbers, provided the coverage is not permanent, is not done with the intent to deliberately hide the numbers and does not alter or deface the numbers. Also, so long as the numbers are not made unreadable, or altered or defaced in any way so as to deliberate make them unreadable, there is no provisions that prohibit the serial number tag being placed in another location on the firearm. The relevant part of the statutes that refer to removing a serial number, mean to actually remove the number for good...as in trying to hide the number. I've known one or two cops over the years with a corn cob stuck waaaaay to far up their pie holes and get stressed out over the simplest of things...sadly, there will always be those kinds of cops out there, so it usually is much easier to just keep things the way they are and not even mess with the serial numbers. But fortunately, there are also many more cops like I used to be, who realize we all have certain rights pertaining to what we can do with our own personal property and have no problem letting some rookie know when to tuck his tail back in and back off a citizen. I know I'm good, but again, for the sake of not having to rip some rookie a new one if he were to try and seize anything I own...the idea of modding a viewing port into the base itself is actually a great idea and one I'll be doing in the by near future!

[jlottmc]

Thanks for clarifying, I thought I had remembered something to that effect, otherwise I would not have said what I did. You're definitely right about there being some officer with something shoved somewhere as to be unhealthy, and getting bent out of shape over nothing. Good call all the way around.