Is this a DEAL or What?

[sierrajb]

Hey, Gang! Going to check out a 4 month old 1911 by MetroArms (American Classic) Amigo. Here's the ad posted:

http://texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=241756

If you take away the price of the ammo and extras, the price of the gun drops drastically. Your thoughts?

[Bawanna]

It looks good. I don't know anything at all about Metro Arms. I'm trying to remember what Jlott has.

I'm sure somebody here someplace has played with one or knows something about them.

I'm not nuts about the Tula ammo but I imagine it'll shoot.

Keep us posted. Love the laminate grips.

[gb6491]

That's a pretty good deal. My "go to" local shop has several American Classic 1911s on hand. The ones I've handled seemed well made and are finished a little finer than their Filipino brethren (Armscor/Rock Island). I think you'll like it.
Regards,
Greg

[MikeyKahr]

It looks good. I don't know anything at all about Metro Arms. I'm trying to remember what Jlott has.

If I remember right, uncle B, jlott's was a Llama. Deadly accurate and an overachiever.

[kerby9mm]

I had a RIA officers tactical and they are OK guns. You could probably find that gun for that price new. The Tul ammo is dirty and throws sparks as well as being underpowered. I paid $15 a box for it & won't use it again.

[sierrajb]

I had a RIA officers tactical and they are OK guns. You could probably find that gun for that price new. The Tul ammo is dirty and throws sparks as well as being underpowered. I paid $15 a box for it & won't use it again.

Yeah, I've heard the same about Tula, and this certainly was not a deal breaker. Walmart carries this junk for $15 a box. I shot a box with my PM9 only once and noticed how extra dirty it made my gun. Not many good reports on Tula around here, but I will get rid of it the right way at the range if this deal turns out good. Supposed to meet the guy at 5 pm today in a Walmart parking lot. Keep you all posted.

[jlottmc]

Actually, to clarify my full size is a Llama, and my Commander is a Metro Arms. Get the pistol, the Tula ammo has hard primers, and feels a little weak compared to other loadings. If you can find a place around here that'll let you shoot it anymore, shoot it, it works well enough for range ammo. My pistol is good to go, though like any 1911 may need some fine tuning. For example, mine used to give me a love tap between the eyes but 2" high on the forehead about every 7-9'th round. I fixed that real quick. If that is the biggest whine I can come up with for a gun, then it's all good.

[wyntrout]

Dang! Just take the "love taps" in stride... wear a cap... properly... bill forward and low. That and eye protection will keep most of them from being a bother. I still got a hot case down the back of my shirt last trip to the range! I guess that I could button the top button on my polo shirt!

Wynn:D

[jlottmc]

Little TLC and no more problem. Besides, IF I were to wear a hat it would be right, but I still have my hair, and the range is not great with their lighting. I didn't mind them that much, I had several hundred rounds through the gun before I tuned that out. They were really funny when my wife or little brother shot it and got them. As for the hot brass down a shirt, BTDT many a time, including the hot brass whoopee dance (usually with a tucked shirt). Had brass stick to the arm a couple of times too. It just got hot and hit the arm and stuck.

[Bawanna]

Well I'm cancelling my ahlzeimers test appointment for next week, I think it was next week.

What a memory I have, Jlott has a Metro and I remembered.

If my arms were any longer I'd be patting myself on the back for sure.

Wife offered to do it but she had a 2 x 4 in her hand so I passed on that.

[MikeyKahr]

My bad. I'll take that Alzheimer's appointment you are cancelling next week.

[Bawanna]

My bad. I'll take that Alzheimer's appointment you are cancelling next week.

No need nephew, you remembered the Llama correctly so you were also correct.

I forgot to cancel it anyhow, dang it, maybe I should just keep it if I can remember when it is?

[sierrajb]

Bit the bullet and bought the gun. Fit and finish is much nicer than I thought. Seller seemed to be a very HONEST person who really knew his stuff. He's an active special agent involved in breaking up drug rings, gang activities, etc. He bought TWO of these: one for his work and one for his safe at home. Only shot ONE box of 50 through this, then put it to bed where it's not seen daylight until yesterday.

Can't wait to get it to the range. Will let you know.

[MW surveyor]

Looks pretty good. Enjoy!

[jocko]

Actually, to clarify my full size is a Llama, and my Commander is a Metro Arms. Get the pistol, the Tula ammo has hard primers, and feels a little weak compared to other loadings. If you can find a place around here that'll let you shoot it anymore, shoot it, it works well enough for range ammo. My pistol is good to go, though like any 1911 may need some fine tuning. For example, mine used to give me a love tap between the eyes but 2" high on the forehead about every 7-9'th round. I fixed that real quick. If that is the biggest whine I can come up with for a gun, then it's all good.

why is in jlottmc's comments he says "like any 1911, may need some fine tuning" and yet it seems accepted by most 1911 guys but yet we see on thius forum and on others with differetnt brand models that I guess anything except a 1911 is not exempt from any "fine tuning" Makes no sense to me. but yet u read of alot of the hiigh high dollar 1911's all needed some tweeking or a trip back to the mothership even and ammo sensitive etc, but yet again with all the other makes of semi's out there , Kahr included, this is a cardinal sinb if one is asked to tweek his gun a tad. Now I know some are gonna come back and say heh, my 1911 has never given one issue out of the box, and that is so true, but u also know better to as a 1911 owner, that it ain't that way with alot of them. Just sayin and just askin.

I have no issues with tweeking a gun if needed and if possable but to hear some on this forum, that is pure b.s. Might be to but it is a fact with 1911's alot..:third:

[Bawanna]

45 hater! Seek counseling.

[Longitude Zero]

It is like any mechanical device. Some give trouble free service from the get go and some are boat anchors. As an astute F/A afficianodo I have seen plenty of both.

[TucsonMTB]

Bit the bullet and bought the gun.
http://kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6542&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1348165374
Looks gorgeous! Congratulations!

That size 1911 is usually very nice to shoot. I predict you will enjoy it very much.

You might want to keep it away from your significant other . . . my wife has claimed "our" similar sized, Stainless Ultra as her own.

Admittedly, she lets me clean it. :rolleyes:

[jocko]

who me, no just speaking the truth. have u never had to tweek ur 45's. HellI read on this forum all the time about some of the piss poor mags some of the 45 comes with and how one should buy a wilson or jocko custom mag if u want it to run right. I call that tweeking, and it just seems though u 45 guys accept that, . My point and I know by now after u read my post 50 times u have now got the message, that kahrs take a verbal beating sometimes from some owners who speak out of both sides of their mouths and even sometimes out of their ass even.. Just sayin

My counselor by the way is a devout 9mm fan, so he and I get along quite nicely, but the fokker is a goldwhiner, so we have a line that neiter of us cross, well he doesn't, I don't really recognize lines. I always looked at a line as something u step on or over. I have a 45 by the way, It was such a pain in the ass that I finally welded a 3 foot steel rod to it and with that nice grip set u made for me, I use that as my 45 hydraulic jack handle. It looks really cool. I get lots of compliments on the grips. Just sayin

[sierrajb]

LOVE my PM9 and would not trade for it (sentimental reasons coupled with quality and other fine reasons). This being my first .45 1911, I also am ready to buy a new stainless mag by Chip Mc or the likes. The original owner is not a big fan of the factory ACT mag that came with it, so he used one of his older mags instead.

Every gun needs tweeking sooner or later, some more often than others....and therein lies the issue.

[MW surveyor]

Hey, tweaking and 1911s go hand in hand.

[Bawanna]

I've not heard of any bad things on the ACT mags but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

I'm a Wilson mag devotee myself. They seem to work good in everything I use them in.

Chip has a large fan base as well.

Might have to make up some new business cards, bawanna grips and jack handles. Gold Whiner wrecking services.

[sierrajb]

Yep, Bawanna, heard of the Wilson Combat and the Sigs. Prolly go with Wilson, too. The grips are nice, but not what I would have chosen. Love the ones YOU've made. May be in touch later!

[jocko]

Hey, tweaking and 1911s go hand in hand.

Point, game, set,MATCH.:third:

[Bawanna]

Yep, Bawanna, heard of the Wilson Combat and the Sigs. Prolly go with Wilson, too. The grips are nice, but not what I would have chosen. Love the ones YOU've made. May be in touch later!

We're ready when you are.

[gb6491]

... This being my first .45 1911, ...
Congrats sierrajb!
Regards,
Greg


http://i45.tinypic.com/28bha1h.jpg

[sierrajb]

What a day yesterday was! Had just enough time to run to the gun store to buy a Wilson Combat magazine before heading to the range. I had never shot a 1911 before, much less THIS one I just bought. I decided to shoot the Russian-made ammo that came with the package (TulAmmo, 230gr., FMJ, steel case, non-corrosive, boxer primed....). Here's what I experienced:

1. Had to buy a Cherry Coke to calm me down. Stuffed it in the bag and walked out the door to pick my spot on the range.

2. Range Manager had shut down the short range for repairs, so I was left with shooting my targets from 50 feet away. Oh, well. I wasn't too bothered. I always heard bullets from a 1911 could reach that far....

3. Loaded up 7 in the WC clip, racked the slide once to load one in the pipe, and began noticing my heartbeat and breathing increased steadily. Time to open that Coke. Took a nice long swallow. "This is gonna be good," I thought.

4. Took several deep breaths, looked around to see if anyone was watching, took aim, the lightly squeezed the trigger: BOOM! What a feeling, what a rush....what a FAILURE TO FEED that next round as I saw the slide left wide open.

5. Manually loaded the round and it fired just great, BUT the slide locked open again. This happened with all 7 rounds. Gotta be a weak spring, right?

6. Removed the recoil spring to find it BENT almost in the shape of a banana. How strange. Also replaced the firing pin spring. This new set Wolf springs was a part of the package deal.

7. Tried it again, and it seemed to fix the problem. I had at least 3 more FAILURE TO FEED, and 1 FAILURE TO EJECT. Since I am a total noobie at the 1911, and all my Cherry Coke was now gone, I chalked it up as Shooter's Mistakes (weak wrist?) since most of this occurred within the first 50 rounds. No other problems after that.

8. I shot a total of about 125 rounds. After the first 75 rounds, I was feeling a bit more confident. I put up another new target to shoot my last 50 rounds for the day. I still have more ammo to burn, but it was closing time at the range.

9. My second target revealed a much improved grouping. Several shots through the middle of the target, but most just below the middle. Again, my faulty technique is to blame, not the gun.

What I Learned
1. How to field strip and change springs in a 1911. Never did that before!
2. One Cherry Coke doesn't last long when you're shooting a 1911 for the first time.
3. Ammo for a .45 is NOT CHEAP! Glad I got 4 boxes as part of the deal.
4. Keep that hat and those glasses on at all times. Took a love tap with a hot shell right on the bill of the hat.
5. The trigger on this 1911 is nothing like my PM9. Cheeze Whiz! 'nuff said.
6. Still love my PM9, though.

What I NEED to Learn
1. How to more easily install the safety pin in this 1911. It took two people: one to hold the little spring loaded nub back while the other pushed the pin back into place without scratching the slide.
2. Which spring to use for which ammo? This is a science I know nothing about. Go with Wolf, Wilson, or what?
3. Is this 1911 going to eat recoil springs like candy? Why was the spring installed so weak and bent?
4. How to use the tip of my trigger finger for this gun instead of more finger used when shooting my PM9.
5. And about a thousand MORE things to learn that I haven't even considered yet!

So...chime in here guys...I'm open to comments, suggestions and questions. I had pics to post, but I took them on a different camera that is not equipped to download images. Sorry about that.

[TucsonMTB]

Sounds like you did just fine. Getting a 1911 back together without scratching the frame with the slide stop is a real accomplishment! http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

Your initial mechanical failures are probably break in issues. Unless it is a high end gun, the 1911 design seems to need a couple hundred rounds fired through it to start working smoothly.

See if you can find some affordable brass cased ammo. I usually buy on-line from people like SGAmmo.com. There are some ammo finder websites that I can share with you, if you are interested.

Welcome to the 1911 disease . . . uhm, err, I mean . . . 1911 enthusiasts family. :D

[sierrajb]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice, Tuscon. This is a VERY new gun. The original owner shot about 40 rounds. Add my 175, and it's still minimal. Never thought of other guns besides my Kahr that needed a break in period. No, I would not call this "high end" since you can buy a brand new one around here from Academy or Bud's for about $600 (tax included).

I did find some Remington 230 grain in brass at Walmart. Box of 50 was $21. Still twice what I'm used to with my PM9, so that's going to be quite an expensive habit unless I can get some counseling soon. Please send those places where I can buy cheaper ammo.

[TucsonMTB]

Let's see, $21 a box is $420 per thousand. That's not too bad, especially if it includes the sales tax. Otherwise . . . look around on line.

Check out http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/45-auto-acp . . . They list a 1000 round case of Aguila with brass cases for $300 plus $25 shipping. For range use, this is very good ammo . . . or at least it has always worked well in all my 1911's shooting accurately and is fairly clean. This stuff is made in Mexico on US tooling, originally for the Mexican army and police. http://www.sgammo.com/product/aguila/1000-rds-45-acp-auto-230-gr-fmj-brass-case-aguila-ammo

AmmunitionToGo is a good source too. The value standout there is Sellier & Bellot at $360 for a thousand plus whatever they charge for shipping. This stuff is amazingly accurate and clean. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/23_76_121/products_id/298

Although I don't shoot it, Blazer Aluminum can usually be found fairly cheaply. At $340 per thousand plus shipping, it's not a good value because it cannot be reloaded. But, if you don't reload and don't have friends who would value having your ten cent per piece, brass, once fired cartridges . . . you don't really care. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/1000rds-45-acp-cci-blazer-230gr-fmj-ammo/cName/45-acp-full-metal-jacket

I put these offerings in a forum message to encourage others to chime in. When I find special bargains in the future, I will send you a PM, if you like.

As you can see, SGAmmo's Aguila at nearly $100 less per thousand than WalMart really is the best bargain in this group.

Here is one of the Ammo search engines. You do have to know what you are looking at and be careful. Some of the dealers really get you with shipping. http://ammoseek.com/?gun=handgun&cal=48&type=&grains=0&mfg=&keywords=&sortby=cpr

Oh, and buying in case lots really takes the pain out range visits because you just grab from the stash and go shooting! :D

[sierrajb]

Thanks for those links and insight, Tucson! The only online supplier I've dealt with is Mike at www.mahsupplies.net/ (http://www.mahsupplies.net/). He's got some pretty good prices on high end ammo for 9mm (GD, Federal, Ranger, etc.), and pretty fair on shipping. Haven't checked on his prices for .45 ACP, yet, but I will when I check out your links.

My only challenge has been to come up with the one lump sum to pay for a whole case at a time. When my weekly check is good and bills are low, I pick up a box or two at Walmart and put it in safekeeping until it's range time. Guess I could do the same by putting away some cash until I've saved enough for a case online. Just feels good to walk out of that store with a box or two of ammo.

[TucsonMTB]

Just feels good to walk out of that store with a box or two of ammo.
Forgetting about costs for a moment, whatever makes you feel good is the way to go. 1911's are all about fun. ;)

I'm not much of a day to day shopper. So, letting the brown truck do the driving makes me smile.

Here's hoping you continue to enjoy your 1911 at whatever level makes you heart feel good. :D

[sierrajb]

Sorry, but can't figger out how to add a picture followed by a comment, then another picture followed by a comment, etc. So, I had to put the pics in order and refer to them that way. Any shortcuts are appreciated. Now, follow the order of pics with my explanations (Left to Right, Top to Bottom):

Picture 1: What I took with me to the trip. Right to left is:
TulAmmo, 230 grain, steel, round nose (about 40 rounds leftover from 1st visit)
ACT clip that came with the gun. Never used before.
New Wilson Combat clip just purchased and used last range visit.
Generic clip given to me by the original owner.
Remington, 230 grain, brass, round nose (50 rounds)

Picture 2: First rounds from the ACT clip from 50 feet. Remember, the Range Manager had the 21 foot range shut down for repairs, so this was the best I could do. Holes outside the black are NOT mine, honest!

Picture3: When it was all over. This is not the total 90 rounds, but the best half. Worked with two different targets, and this was more visible. Obviously, I still have much work to do on my technique, but this trip was more about gun performance issues (feeding, ejecting, etc.) than my expertise.

My next post will give the gun's performance with each clip using this ammo.

[TucsonMTB]

Cool! You won't get any grief here, but remember that on the package from Wilson Combat it described the contents as a magazine. Some military rifles do use clips to insert a stack of rounds into an internal magazine, but they are pretty rare for pistols.

So, when you visit M1911.org to show off your new toy, and you should, be sure to use the magazine terminology . . . ;)

[Bawanna]

That's fine and dandy for 50 ft. Looking good.

If that spring is 18# it might be a little light. That's officer size so if memory serves 22? or 24? is the usual factory. 16 to 18 for full size and 18 to 20 for commander. I might have that all buggered up but it's something like that.

Carry on your doing fine.

Tucson is right about the clip/magazine terminology but I'm not gonna pile on, your too good a man.

[sierrajb]

FEEDING, EJECTING, SHOOTING...

Round 1 (TulAmmo)
1. ACT mag gave NO issues. Hit three in the bullseye.
2. WC mag gave NO issues. Hit three in the bullseye.
3. Generic mag had TWO Failure to Load.

Round 2 (TulAmmo)
1. ACT mag gave NO issues.
2. WC ag gave ONE Failure to Load.
3. Generic mag gave ONE Failure to Load.

Round 3 (Remington)
1. ACT mag gave ONE Failure to Load
2. WC mag gave ONE Failure to Load
3. Generic mag gave TWO Failures to Load

Round 4 (Remington)
***Used the WC mag to shoot remaining rounds. Gave ONE Failure to Load.

PERFORMANCE PERCENTAGE:
Shot a total of 90 rounds. 7 of the 90 failed to load, making it a 7.7% failure (or....92.3% success).

Questions for KahrTalk
1. Does this 1911 compact require a break-in period like my PM9 did?
I have read that it needs 2-300 rounds. This range visit makes about 300 rounds shot through the gun.
2. Are the Failures to Load a result of incorrect recoil springs?
I now have a Wolf spring in it, but not sure what the rating (#) is. My guess is it's 18#? I have one unopened set of Wolf springs (Recoil and Firing Pin springs) with a load rating 22#, factory standard.
3. If I replace the current spring set with the 22# set, what results can I expect?
Tempted to install the 22# set anyway, then shoot another 100 rounds to see what gives.
4. What was MORE LIKELY the cause for failures: Mags? Ammo? Springs? ME?
5. What springs are BEST? Wolf v. Wilson? Which load rating to use for practice, and which set to use for carry (if I get confidence in the gun)?
6. How often should I expect to change these springs?
Some say every 3-400 rounds, others say much longer.
7. And the question that started this thread: Was this a DEAL or WHAT?
Kinda leaning toward a what right now....

Thanks for your insight and help!

[sierrajb]

Ha! Had to EDIT that previous post to use the correct terminology. Thanks, Tuscon and Bawanna! Haven't checked out the M1911.org site, but I sure will soon, Tuscon.

Bawanna, I think you must be close on your guess with the load ratings for compact 1911 springs. I was given an unopened package of Wolf springs rated at 22# (see post above). I'll check around to find some kind of chart to guide me in my next purchase of springs.

And, yes, Bawanna....if I bond with this 1911 like I have my PM9, and it turns out to be a keeper, I may buy a set of your custom wooden grips. Need to go back to your emporium for a look-see....

[TucsonMTB]

Questions for KahrTalk
1. Does this 1911 compact require a break-in period like my PM9 did?
I have read that it needs 2-300 rounds. This range visit makes about 300 rounds shot through the gun.
Absolutely. Probably more so. Kimber prefers that you have 500 rounds through one of their $1000+ guns before asking for warranty help with feeding issues. :rolleyes:


2. Are the Failures to Load a result of incorrect recoil springs?
I now have a Wolf spring in it, but not sure what the rating (#) is. My guess is it's 18#? I have one unopened set of Wolf springs (Recoil and Firing Pin springs) with a load rating 22#, factory standard.Sometimes. But, heavier springs also overcome the extra friction in a new gun making it seem like the originals were "wrong" when in fact they are fine after break in.


3. If I replace the current spring set with the 22# set, what results can I expect?
Tempted to install the 22# set anyway, then shoot another 100 rounds to see what gives.
It may make no difference at all, but try it. Be sure to keep the ones you take out. They will not go bad. And, if you have not polished the feed ramp yet . . . polish it now. Be careful not to change the shape but make it look like a mirror.


4. What was MORE LIKELY the cause for failures: Mags? Ammo? Springs? ME?
Usually mags are the first area to change, but with your Wilsons you already have the best. Most "ball ammo", that is 230grain FMJ stuff, feeds about the same. If you start playing with JHP . . . expect to have to experiment to see what works. Heavier springs help overcome the extra friction while breaking in . . . which reminds me . . . run it "wet", that is lots of lube until it smooths out. Lubrication is VERY IMPORTANT at first. Later it will be less so.


5. What springs are BEST? Wolf v. Wilson? Which load rating to use for practice, and which set to use for carry (if I get confidence in the gun)?
6. How often should I expect to change these springs?
Some say every 3-400 rounds, others say much longer.
Wilson and Wolff are both premium quality. I use both with equal success. 1911 recoil spring life is usually measured in thousands of rounds, with 2000 being a conservative estimate. Keep any you take out and label them. Once your gun is broken in they will probably "magically" start to work properly. ;)


7. And the question that started this thread: Was this a DEAL or WHAT?
Kinda leaning toward a what right now....

Thanks for your insight and help!
Oh, it is definitely a deal. Honest. Most 1911's cost quite a bit more. These teething problems will go away pretty soon. :D

[gb6491]

That's fine and dandy for 50 ft. Looking good.

If that spring is 18# it might be a little light. That's officer size so if memory serves 22? or 24? is the usual factory. 16 to 18 for full size and 18 to 20 for commander. I might have that all buggered up but it's something like that.

Carry on your doing fine.

Tucson is right about the clip/magazine terminology but I'm not gonna pile on, your too good a man.
I use a 22# ISMI flat wire spring in my OACP (http://www.egwguns.com/recoil-springs/ismi-flat-wire-recoil-springs/).
Regards,
Greg

[sierrajb]

Tuscon, thanks for addressing each of those questions individually. Great help for this rookie! Regarding the polished ramp...YES! Did not use any sandpaper, but I used some good 3M automotive compound and a Dremel buffing pad to shine up the ramp, barrel, recoil guide.

"Running it wet?" I used some Pro Gold grease on rails, barrel, ramp, and everywhere I saw marks of friction. Come to think of it, never used OIL, but I knew I was going to shoot less than 100 rounds this trip due to limited time and ammo. Heard of some who add oil between a mag or two on the range. May try some Remington spray oil I have on hand if you all think it's needed.

Good to hear from someone else that this is still a good deal and I've got more bonding time before making a judgment.

GB, I'll check out those ISMI springs, too. Plan to order some after my next trip using the 22# spring set.

Really appreciate the help I depend on in this forum. You guys are fantastic!

[JFootin]

sierrajb, in this post, I tell how to use Photobucket to post images:
http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=174875&postcount=9

[TucsonMTB]

"Running it wet?" I used some Pro Gold grease on rails, barrel, ramp, and everywhere I saw marks of friction. Come to think of it, never used OIL, but I knew I was going to shoot less than 100 rounds this trip due to limited time and ammo. Heard of some who add oil between a mag or two on the range. May try some Remington spray oil I have on hand if you all think it's needed.
If you are talking about Pro-Shot Pro-Gold Gun Grease Lubricant that comes in a 10cc Syringe, I believe you have made a good choice. Not that I have used this exact product, but it is the right kind of lubricant for the rails, barrel link, barrel locking lugs, and hood areas, which are your greatest sources of friction. Light oils elsewhere should be fine. The reference to adding a drop or two of oil while shooting usually applies to keeping the rails wet. I think you already have that covered with your light grease.


Good to hear from someone else that this is still a good deal and I've got more bonding time before making a judgment.

GB, I'll check out those ISMI springs, too. Plan to order some after my next trip using the 22# spring set.

Really appreciate the help I depend on in this forum. You guys are fantastic!
Keep the faith and hang in there! I believe Greg was only illustrating his choice of a 22lb spring, rather than suggesting you invest in the rather pricey flat spring technology that would require an additional $60 for the correct quarter inch guide rod. The spring technology you have is just fine. And . . . thanks for the kind words. We all look forward to seeing you smile about your 1911. :D

[MW surveyor]

Your targets look good for 50 feet!

One thing about the M1911.org is that they do have sections for your particular make of gun. Makes it a bit easier to ask direct questions to people who have the same gun.

Enjoy.

And you may want to consider reloading if you are going to shoot the gun a lot.

[sierrajb]

Thanks, JFootin for helping with this. I printed our your instructions and will try posting pics in line with my comments after my next range visit.

Tuscon, yes, the grease used is exactly what you listed. Heard from others around here it was really good stuff. The PO of my 1911 felt strongly that motor oil was the best route to keeping a gun clean and lubed. Compared it to the internal heat and friction of an engine. Makes sense, but sounds "messy."

MW, just registered at the M1911.org site. I can already tell it's not as "friendly" and "forgiving" as Kahr Talk. Have you read their rules? If you post in the wrong section of a forum you could get booted. Warning all over the place about that. WHEW! Sure don't mess around, do they? I'll visit again after this post and see if I can dig up something on my Amigo.

Reloading myself? Better give that s'more thought!

[TucsonMTB]

Tuscon, yes, the grease used is exactly what you listed. Heard from others around here it was really good stuff. The PO of my 1911 felt strongly that motor oil was the best route to keeping a gun clean and lubed. Compared it to the internal heat and friction of an engine. Makes sense, but sounds "messy."
Actually, synthetic motor oil, like Mobile 1, works well and has little odor. So, it's not messy. Remember, once you have it broken in, you won't need much lubricant. But, none of them are magic. Just stick with what you have (no pun intended). ;) It is good stuff!

I will stop pestering you now so you can enjoy your new pistol. :rolleyes:

[sierrajb]

No pester at all, Tuscon! I'm eating up all this info. Thanks for you responses, honestly. They are VERY helpful. I've become a member of the following forums tonight in hopes of learning as much as I can:

1911forum.com
americanclassic1911forum.com
m1911.org (Thanks, MW Surveyor)

Finding out it's really hard to find info on this particular gun and the manufacturer.

[sierrajb]

Cleaned up my new MetroArms American Classic Amigo (MACA) compact 1911 last night in preparation for today's 3rd visit to the range. Lubed it with Mobil 1 Synthetic on all moving parts except striker. Let it set overnight, then right after work I hit the range with 300 rounds to burn.


My goals at this visit:
1. Continue breaking in the gun by "shooting it wet" as some have suggested. If all goes well, the gun will have eaten 500 loads after this trip.
2. Test different brands of ammo (same 230 grain load) to see if the gun is prejudiced. Went for the steel TulAmmo, Federal, and Winchester (white box)...all from my friendly Walmart.
3. Test (again) the three different mags I have: The original ACT mag; a brand new Wilson Combat mag; and a used generic mag (no name anywhere on it).
4. Test the other Wolff spring set (22#) to see if it made any difference in correcting the previous FTL/FTE issues.
5. Shoot my cherished sidekick, the PM9, after 300 rounds with the Amigo just to see how much different it is in terms of feel, recoil, trigger, and accuracy.

Range Results (See Post #27 in this thread for comparison)
1. In my excitement and anticipation of going back to the range, I FORGOT to change the current spring set (unknown rating) and install a brand new Wolff spring set (22#). Bummer! I can scratch Goal #4 until next visit. Decided to save the WWB of 100 for the next visit, so I compared only two brands of ammo: TulAmmo & Federal.
2. I also forgot to bring some extra Mobile 1 to lube the rails after 100 rounds, so I used Hoppe's #9 oil instead. Oiled rails after shooting 100 rounds of TulAmmo, just before shooting 100 rounds of Federal.
3. Test results were based on 180 rounds total instead of 200. Wanted to have same amount of rounds of each type ammo in each mag.
4. The results were quite surprising, and I'm sure more telling than I know.
5. Using the ACT mag there were NO FTL's or FTE's at all. It consistently shot both types of ammo yielding no failure issues.
6. The Wilson Combat gave a total of SIX FTL's out of the 60 rounds (10% failure). Using the 7 round mag, EVERY FTL was on the 6th round. Is it telling me something?
7. The Generic Brand mag gave a total of SIX FTL's and ONE FTE out fo the 60 rounds (11.6% failure). All failures occurred earlier in the magazine (1st or 2nd round).
8. Total Failure Rate for the 200 rounds is 6.5%. Not going to bet my life on those odds just yet.
9. After shooting 200 rounds through the compact 1911, I picked up my PM9 and shot 50 quick ones. What a difference! Much "snappier" recoil, but still easily managed. The loooong trigger felt great, but gave me a lot of time to make mistakes. Not one issue in the 50 rounds, and I bet it would do the same for another 150 or more.

I swear....I almost heard my PM9 schooling the newbie 1911:

"Now, THAT's how you do it, mi Amigo! Just bite the bullet when he tells you, hit whatever he wants, and spit out the empties so he can keep havin' fun! When you get as good as I am, you'll get out more often."

If this 1911 becomes as dependable as my PM9, it's definitely a keeper!! But I still have my work cut out for me.

Questions
1. Why did the ACT mag out perform the Wilson Combat? Everything I've read about WC seems to support they are one of the BEST mags made.
2. Are the failures still related to the recoil spring? Can't really guess about this until I try the 22# spring set.
3. How much longer for the break-in? I'm in no rush, mind you. Just wonderin'.

[jocko]

I think I would stick with the factoy mags in ur case. Why rock the boat?? Just sayin

nice report, the gun like most just needs rounds down range. Never been a fan of steel ammo vbut if it works ok for rangeuse , even with a few hiccups. there is nutting wrong with that. a hiccup gices u a drill of tap, rack and bang to. It is the sefense ammo thatu will hav eto say is totally reliable. Maybe andI say this with no lnowledge that 22# spring from wolffs might for awhile give slide locking back issues, especally woth over the ocuntry wal mart wwb ammo. Its good ammo but sometimes a tad light for stouot springs, but again once those springs take their designed set u willbe good to go, but again it is the defense ammo tha thas to be perfect. I guess my question is why change poundage even?? If it ain't broke don't fix it..

[sierrajb]

Jocko, the only reason I bought the new Wilson Combat was because so many people told me it was one of the best. Didn't want to take any chances, and wanted to start out on the right foot, so I forked over $37. Not bummed about that, especially since the problem may not be the magazine at all. I agree, though. If it ain't broke....

....And the only reason I was going to change the spring was because the 1911 websites I've read said my problems were more likely related to the recoil spring. Another website said these Amigos like to "eat" springs, and some have to change them as often as socks! That said...thought I might change it out to a 22# since one was included in the original package. Guess it was a way of determining if that part of the equation was broken or not.

...BUT....While cleaning the gun tonight I discovered the 22# springs set will NOT work....at least THIS spring won't. One end is tapered (like most), but it's tapered so much that it cannot fit over the rod. Fact is, I don't see how it would fit over ANY 1911 recoil guide rod. So, I'll likely contact Wolff to see if this was some kind of freak oversight. Has anyone heard of something like this from Wolff?

Tuscon, that's all the steel ammo I had left. Wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible, and I needed something to shoot for break-in purposes, if nothing else. Won't be buying any more of that, even though it's the cheapest. Federal is only $2 higher, and WWB is about $4 higher.

I have read somewhere that the extractor could also play a key part in this mystery. I'll try this test the next time I clean the gun.

Speaking of head-bopping ejections, I had one hit the bill of my cap some time ago, another catch me right between the eye on my sunglasses, and today I had one land in my front shirt pocket, and another went right down the front of my shirt. So, I definitely have some going in the direction of the head. Maybe better check that extractor tension, huh? Good insight, Tuscon!

Thanks again for all your help!

[TucsonMTB]

...BUT....While cleaning the gun tonight I discovered the 22# springs set will NOT work....at least THIS spring won't. One end is tapered (like most), but it's tapered so much that it cannot fit over the rod. Fact is, I don't see how it would fit over ANY 1911 recoil guide rod. So, I'll likely contact Wolff to see if this was some kind of freak oversight. Has anyone heard of something like this from Wolff?
Actually that is not an oversight on their part. Someone ordered the wrong part.

It sounds like you are trying to use a regular Colt Officer's size recoil spring, designed for a conventional (short) recoil spring guide rather than the FLG (Full Length Guide rod) in your gun. It's worth noting that the Colt Officer's size guns also have a 3.5 inch barrel, so it's an easy mistake to make.

When you talk to Wollf, be sure to tell them you have a 3.5 inch barrel and a full length guide rod so they send you the correct spring.

Here's a picture of the short recoil guide:
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/t_087882001_1.jpg
And a picture of a regular Colt Officer's spring set with two recoil springs at the bottom:
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/t_965325000_1.jpg
And here is the complete gun parts diagram:
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/schematics/colt-Officers.gif
Note the short plug. The tapered spring end does not really show up here.

[sierrajb]

Tuscon,
You are right again!! The description on the package from Wolff says:

For Use In: COLT OFFICER'S MODEL & 1991 Cmpct .45 ACP. Replaces dual recoil springs. Use with factory guide. DO NOT USE WITH SHOCK BUFFERS.

So, I'll be sure to tell Wolff I need a spring for a FULL LENGTH RECOIL GUIDE on a 3.5 inch barrel. Better go do more homework to see what load rating I should get. I'm thinking 22# is a bit too much, but Wolff should be able to help.

Thanks again, Tuscon. I owe you (again).

[gb6491]

To expound on TucsonMTB excellent post:
Wolff offers single replacement springs for 3.5" compact 1911s in two different size diameters.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/OFFICERS%20MODEL/cID1/mID1/dID69

The smaller of these is for use with the .25ish" diameter guide rod that was part of the dual recoil spring system that Colt used in the Officer's ACP. This dual spring setup is on the right in this photo (from http://www.1911pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=413&start=20)
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/DavidWhymore/FixerUpper/Brownie005.jpg
The other size that Wolff offers is for what they describe as "full diameter (.330"/.332")" guide rods (on the left in the photo above).
This is what you want.
To order from the Wolff link above:
Use the drop down box labeled "For use with Full Diameter Guide Rods" or order the "Recoil Calibration Pak, SKU 13201"

Wolff states that their 22# spring is the factory value for Colt's Officer's ACP:



Reduced Power...: 18.5 & 20 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 22 Lb.
Extra Power.........: 24 Lb.

I find Wolff's site confusing at times, so i hope this helps some.
Regards,
Greg

[TucsonMTB]

Thanks for the kind words and additional detail, Greg. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

So, do you want to further initiate Mr. sierrajb into the wonderful world of 1911 extractor tuning? I suspect his needs a little polishing on selected surfaces. Perhaps the master of the discipline, Mr. Rio Vista Slim will jump in with a link to one of his excellent posts somewhere on a 1911 forum. :D

[gb6491]

Thanks for the kind words and additional detail, Greg. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

So, do you want to further initiate Mr. sierrajb into the wonderful world of 1911 extractor tuning? I suspect his needs a little polishing on selected surfaces. Perhaps the master of the discipline, Mr. Rio Vista Slim will jump in with a link to one of his excellent posts somewhere on a 1911 forum. :D
I suspect you are right about the extractor, but would like to know more specifics about the failures to feed (some photos would be helpful).

I will be glad when you finally use up all that steel cased ammo.. . .
Getting away from the steel cased ammo might be a big help as well.

...
5. Using the ACT mag there were NO FTL's or FTE's at all. It consistently shot both types of ammo yielding no failure issues.
...
Also, as the gun is working correctly with the ACT magazine, it seems the style of the magazine's feed lips is a factor. If it's running well with ACT mags, I think i'd call it good and just use them or another brand with the same style feed lips.

Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Looking back I can think of no reason the Amigo would "eat" springs any more than any other officer size 1911.

I've only encountered one 1911 that didn't thrive on Wilson mags and that is my Chiefs. I suspect it's him more than the mags but his Para Ordnance likes it's factory mag with him at the controls better than Wilsons.

Funny they worked fine for me.

I'd eliminate the steel from the equation, get some good old brass FMJ and keep at it.

[jdlott74]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice, Tuscon. This is a VERY new gun. The original owner shot about 40 rounds. Add my 175, and it's still minimal. Never thought of other guns besides my Kahr that needed a break in period. No, I would not call this "high end" since you can buy a brand new one around here from Academy or Bud's for about $600 (tax included).

I did find some Remington 230 grain in brass at Walmart. Box of 50 was $21. Still twice what I'm used to with my PM9, so that's going to be quite an expensive habit unless I can get some counseling soon. Please send those places where I can buy cheaper ammo.

Isn't that the truth. Course, jlottmc doesn't do a lot of gun buying from Academy. He normally gets his stuff from Bullet Trap, has bought if I remember correctly from Cheaper Than Dirt which is in your directions and bought a LOT of them from Shooters Club in Ft. Worth when we were living in that direction.

Where do you shoot?

[sierrajb]

TusconMTB, regarding polishing efforts that I learned here on KahrTalk, I already polished the ramp, barrel, recoil guide. However, I've become a little leary of "over polishing" after reading an article on americanclassic1911forum.com by a man known as "1911Tuner." You can find his posts in a place called "Tuner's Corner" here:

http://www.americanclassic1911forum....Tuner-s-Corner

Take a look at what he says about polishing, etc. then let me know if he's blowing smoke or not. (By the way, where did that saying come from?)

gb6491, the spring to the right in your picture is the incorrect spring that the previous owner purchased and threw in with the package deal. He had another spring set (Wolff) that had been opened, and the package said "Reduced Power...18.5#." So, as usual, you are exactly right. I'll visit their website and take your advice. Springs are relatively inexpensive, plus it will be fun to experiment to see the effects of different springs in this particular gun. Also, what other specifics do you need about the failures to load or eject? Too late to offer pictures, but I can draw a mental pic of some of the incidences if you'd like. Just didn't want to get too long in the post.

Bawanna, ABOUT THE STEEL AMMO I USED>>>>
Not my favorite, but it too came with the package deal, so I shot it all up. However, the ACT mag had no issues with this ugly ammo at all. In fact, brass casings gave me just as much grief with the Wilson Combat and generic brand mags as the steel ammo did. So, I agree with you...type of metal apparently is not an issue at this point....though it could become an issue later.... Also, I believe I read a post from another Amigo owner that he changes his springs "as often as he changes his socks." Not sure if that's a sign of poor hygiene, or an over-compulsive behavior toward springs. The majority of Amigo owners don't feel this way, though.

jdlott74, I live in the Fort Worth, Texas area. Visited the Cheaper Than Dirt store for the first time the other day. Could spend hours and my children's inheritance in there, for sure. Nice folks! Showed me how to remove my recoil spring (took 2 salesmen and the store owner) because it doesn't have one of those nut/bushings on the front. My shooting ranges include Alpine Shooting Range in Kennedale (an outdoor range)and Winchester Gallery off 820 and Lancaster (an indoor range). Familiar with those locations?

[jlottmc]

Why yes, yes, we are. I'm thinking about heading back to them to do some rifle work, but haven't looked to see about range restrictions. Shooter's club used to be real nice, but they changed things since then.

[sierrajb]

Well, here there, neighbor! Guess all I needed to do was check out your LOCATION tab in the right corner of your posts. What an unobservant rookie I am!

Lots of good places around here to shoot a rifle. Saw Shooter's Club booth at the Gun Show earlier today. Nice folks!

[TucsonMTB]

TusconMTB, regarding polishing efforts that I learned here on KahrTalk, I already polished the ramp, barrel, recoil guide. However, I've become a little leary of "over polishing" after reading an article on americanclassic1911forum.com by a man known as "1911Tuner." You can find his posts in a place called "Tuner's Corner" here:

http://www.americanclassic1911forum....Tuner-s-Corner

Take a look at what he says about polishing, etc. then let me know if he's blowing smoke or not. (By the way, where did that saying come from?
Your link does not work for me but I suspect he is talking about "Death by Dremel Tool". It is real concern. Most experienced 1911 people avoid using them. What I was referring to is quite different.

If your issues persist, take a look at Bill Wilson's detailed instructions at this link: http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/calibers/45-acp/extractor-tuning-tips-by-bill-wilson/

There are a couple of things that most extractors will benefit from that are not usually done by the factory. This is optional and not recommended unless you have feeding problems.

Oh, and extractor polishing/tuning mostly involves shaping a few areas by hand. It is NOT done with a Dremel tool. ;)

[sierrajb]

Yep Sir, that's exactly what he was talking about, referring to "Dremel Dan" and his cousin "Buffer Bubba." He showed some scarey pics where someone went crazy with the Dremel, so he's totally anti-Dremel and even goes so far as to say buffing the feed ramp is useless. Not sure if I buy all that, but I get his point.

I'll check out that article by Bill Wilson. Thanks again for the helpful info!

[TucsonMTB]

Most people who use a Dremel tool to polish their ramps use a felt tip that fits nicely into the curve, but the motion is across the feed ramp at right angles to the path of the bullet up the ramp.

That may look pretty, but it doesn't always remove any machining marks or ridges across the ramp. Polishing by hand using a motion parallel to the path of the bullet is more effective at removing machining marks and smoothing out anything else that might drag on the bullet.

Using progressively finer paper grades, it is usually possible to get a nice mirror like finish by hand . . . at least that's been my experience. your mileage may vary . . . ;)

Starting with 600 grit, I usually tire of rubbing long before any significant metal is removed. Why, yes! I might be lazy. How did you know?! :D

[jdlott74]

jdlott74, I live in the Fort Worth, Texas area. Visited the Cheaper Than Dirt store for the first time the other day. Could spend hours and my children's inheritance in there, for sure. Nice folks! Showed me how to remove my recoil spring (took 2 salesmen and the store owner) because it doesn't have one of those nut/bushings on the front. My shooting ranges include Alpine Shooting Range in Kennedale (an outdoor range)and Winchester Gallery off 820 and Lancaster (an indoor range). Familiar with those locations?

Yes, we are. We used to go to the CTD location in Ft. Worth all the time. Now that we live up in N. TX, we got to the location in McKinney. We have been to Alpine, I don't remember going to Winchester, jlottmc may have before, but I know where it is.

[sierrajb]

Thanks for the kind words and additional detail, Greg. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

So, do you want to further initiate Mr. sierrajb into the wonderful world of 1911 extractor tuning? I suspect his needs a little polishing on selected surfaces. Perhaps the master of the discipline, Mr. Rio Vista Slim will jump in with a link to one of his excellent posts somewhere on a 1911 forum. :D

Took your advice and read up on how to test and tune the extractor. Wilson's brief article was helpful, but it raised some questions for me, especially about the polishing part of the tune up. So, I went to Youtube and watched a few vids on how to test the extractor tension and adjust it by bending.

Until I am convinced I did the tension test correctly, I will not bend the extractor one way or the other. Here's what I learned:

1. With the slide off, barrel and recoil removed, and firing pin out (for safety), I slid a loaded round (not an empty) under the extractor hook and made sure it was centered against the wall where the firing pin exits to fire.
2. I gave it a GENTLE shake (as everyone said) and the bullet remained in place. This was part one of the test that it seemed to pass.
3. I then gave it a more VIGOROUS shake, and the bullet flew out with no problem. Apparently, this was part two of the tension test....and it passed.

QUESTION 1: This seemed like a "gut feel" test to me. What is "gentle" and what is "vigorous?" Judgment seems to be relative to the tester.

QUESTION 2: Should I have tested this with an EMPTY shell? Wilson said to use a loaded round (as others agreed), but still others used an empty shell to test. Will it make a diff?

QUESTION 3: What part does CLEANLINESS play? As I inspected the extractor I noticed it had never been cleaned (at least by me, after 400 rounds). There was considerable build up around the edges and grooves of the extractor, and the extractor channel was VERY filthy. Shame on me, but before this thread I had no idea how to remove an extractor from a 1911, much less clean it. Will the clean extractor and channel make a difference on the range? I retested it after cleaning, and it still "passed" according to others.

If I'm missing something important, let me know. Again, I'm holding off from bending or replacing until I know I need that.

[TucsonMTB]

This "testing" is not necessarily precise, but helps identify when your extractor is either much too tight or much too loose.

It sounds like your extractor passed the portion intended to identify extractors that are too tight. Extractors that are too tight can contribute to a "failure to feed" problem.

The traditional second half of the test, using an empty cartridge, is intended to identify extractors that are too loose. Extractors that are too loose will cause a "failure to extract" problem.

Sometime when you are cleaning the gun again, it should be easy to check for too loose an extractor using an empty cartridge. Because your gun is working well with at least one of the magazines, it's not a high priority in my mind.

Regarding your specific questions . . .

Regarding Question 1: Yep, this test is only an indicator. Somewhere there are specific, numerical force recommendations for extractors. Most of us don't have the equipment to apply them, hence this simpler, subjective test.

Regarding Question 2: Testing the lower limit using the empty shell is useful, but only when you are experiencing extraction failures or have adjusted the extractor to exert less force and want to be sure you have not over done it. ;)

Regarding Question 3: 1911's will work just fine with a lot of cr@p in the extractor channel. As a result, most people seldom, if ever, bother to clean that area. It can't hurt to clean it during your annual, ten thousand round, full tear down style cleaning or after using especially dirty ammo that might have packed the channel with enough to impede the extractor's very slight movement. But, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Oh, and, unless your empty shell falls off with gentle shaking, it doesn't sound like there is any need to adjust (bend) your extractor. However, the test has only cost you a little time and should eliminate possible concerns about this one area of the several that might contribute to your early teething problems. Knowing that all is well can be reassuring as you continue your break in process and the search for the magazines that work best with your particular gun.

Arguably, this process of evaluation and cleaning is part of the "1911 bonding process". Are you "feeling the love" yet? http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

[sierrajb]

Definitely feel the love! Maybe I should try this test with an empty shell next. That requires another range visit. Darn....if I must, I shall...

I ordered the Recalibration Pack with several recoil springs from Wolff. It's taken them 4 days to begin shipping it. WOW! Must be busy there. May be late next week before I get to tinker and plinker again.

[sierrajb]

My long-awaited package of Wolff springs came late yesterday. Here's what came in the Recalibration Pack:

1 - 18.5# recoil spring (labeled "reduced power")
1 - 20# recoil spring (labeled "reduced power")
1 - 22# recoil spring (labeled "factory standard")
1 - 24# recoil spring (labeled "extra power")
3 - firing pin springs (labeled "extra power")

Interesting Notes & Questions
1. The lengths of the springs are inconsistent. From longest to shortest is 18.5#, 22#, 20#, 24#. Is this typical? Shouldn't they be the same length as the factory recoil in my gun?
2. While the length of the 24# is the SHORTEST, it APPEARS to be the THICKEST of the four springs. So, is the load rating determined by LENGTH, THICKNESS, or BOTH?
3. Should I wait for the arrival of the new factory spring from MetroArms before installing any of these Wolff springs? Should I try the factory spring FIRST, then the Wolff springs, or vice versa?
4. Should I cut the longer Wolff springs to match the length of the MetroArm factory spring, or try them without cutting to size?
5. For calibration, Wolff says to "begin with the highest load rating and work my way down until the desired slide operationis obtained." Any comment here?

Waiting on your wisdom....

[jocko]

don't cut any springs. wolffs knows what they are doing. They will not be the same length as factory unless they are the same diameter. I would go again with what wolffs recommends for trial and error of the spring.s No doubt the 24# spring might not lock open on the last round with normal range ammo, but again it is only 2# more in factory strength. I would think for sure there should be a big difference n the ability to hand rack the 18l5 reduced power over the 24# extra power. Looks tome like wolffs provided u with a nice calibration kit..

also u gotta remember ur looking at new springs, unshot. they will take a predesigned set after a few hundred rounds that the lenght of each will again change and be even shorter.

[TucsonMTB]

Just to reinforce Jocko's comment . . . Do NOT cut any of the springs. That would destroy their force calibration and make them worse than useless.

The order that you try them in is less important than getting together sufficient ammo, brass cased and all the same please, to accomplish your testing. Pick the magazine that you prefer as well and stick with it until you find a spring that works well. Note the spring you like, make sure the others are marked and store them away in case you change ammo and need to repeat the process.

Admittedly, once you settle on a working spring, it will most likely work for just about any commercial, brass cased ammo. Eventually, you can play with the remaining magazines if you like, but you may be wasting your time and ammo.

Hopefully, once you find the spring and magazine (or magazines) that work well, you will NOT have to change either again.

Then again, after a couple thousand rounds, you will probably find that your 1911 is a lot less picky. Mine certainly are. :)

[Bawanna]

They told me when I just recently got a calibration kit for my Hi Power to start with the heaviest spring first and work down until I achieved what I was looking for as far as ejection, etc.

I think the spring in it was toast when I got it. Won't feed for beans and is a jamomatic. It was very light compared to any of the new springs so I'm confident any of the new springs will help if not completely cure it.

I've never replaced a recoil spring before and never had problems. I did order springs for full, commander and officer size 1911's so I'm ready if needed.

[JFootin]

ALL of those spring are going to take a set, shorten noticeably after a good range session. So don't worry about differences in length of the springs when brand new.

[sierrajb]

don't cut any springs. wolffs knows what they are doing. They will not be the same length as factory unless they are the same diameter. I would go again with what wolffs recommends for trial and error of the spring.s No doubt the 24# spring might not lock open on the last round with normal range ammo, but again it is only 2# more in factory strength. I would think for sure there should be a big difference n the ability to hand rack the 18l5 reduced power over the 24# extra power. Looks tome like wolffs provided u with a nice calibration kit..

also u gotta remember ur looking at new springs, unshot. they will take a predesigned set after a few hundred rounds that the lenght of each will again change and be even shorter.

Jocko, I'll follow your advice and NOT cut the Wolff springs. THANKS! I do expect to feel a considerable difference in hand-racking that 24# when I think I've been used to a much weaker spring. So, I'm understanding that there's something like a "break-in" period for these new springs, too...right?

Question: All of the new Wolff springs have an end where the coil makes a determined "flat" surface, apparently to fit against the plate on the recoil rod. One or two of these springs have a rather "wild" spring (like a busted mattress spring that almost sticks straight out) that looks like it should be bent to make a more solid mating surface for the muzzle end of the slide. Should I do anything to those springs? Need a picture of what I'm talking about?

[sierrajb]

Just to reinforce Jocko's comment . . . Do NOT cut any of the springs. That would destroy their force calibration and make them worse than useless.

The order that you try them in is less important than getting together sufficient ammo, brass cased and all the same please, to accomplish your testing. Pick the magazine that you prefer as well and stick with it until you find a spring that works well. Note the spring you like, make sure the others are marked and store them away in case you change ammo and need to repeat the process.

Admittedly, once you settle on a working spring, it will most likely work for just about any commercial, brass cased ammo. Eventually, you can play with the remaining magazines if you like, but you may be wasting your time and ammo.

Hopefully, once you find the spring and magazine (or magazines) that work well, you will NOT have to change either again.

Then again, after a couple thousand rounds, you will probably find that your 1911 is a lot less picky. Mine certainly are. :)

Prof TucsonMTB...THANKS! What a helpful homework assignment. So....

1. Don't cut any springs (like jocko said).
2. Use ONLY brass, and the SAME KIND. Probably Federal (cheaper) or WWB (already have 1 box of 100). When you say "sufficient amount" what are we talking about? 200? 300? More?
3. I'll stick with only one mag, preferably my new Wilson Combat.
4. Pick and stick with the spring that works the best on feeding and ejecting.

Am I missing anything?

[Bawanna]

Inbound PM sierra. Don't hang up.

[sierrajb]

Ain't goin' nowhere!

[TucsonMTB]

Prof TucsonMTB...THANKS! What a helpful homework assignment. So....

1. Don't cut any springs (like jocko said).
2. Use ONLY brass, and the SAME KIND. Probably Federal (cheaper) or WWB (already have 1 box of 100). When you say "sufficient amount" what are we talking about? 200? 300? More?
3. I'll stick with only one mag, preferably my new Wilson Combat.
4. Pick and stick with the spring that works the best on feeding and ejecting.

Am I missing anything?
Thanks for the kind words!

Bawanna may offer some additional advice, but I think you understand the suggestion perfectly. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif

100 rounds is probably a bit light. At least, when I do something like this, it often takes the better part of a couple hundred to become confident.

More is always better, especially if it starts to work really well and you want to seal in the pleasure. And more ammo might take the pressure off if it takes a while to achieve success.

Hope you have a good time! :D

[Bawanna]

For the record I was giving him some grip information. You guys got the issue at hand well covered in all respects and totally rock!

[sierrajb]

Just made a mad dash to Walmart to pick up some of that Federal 230 gr. in a 100 ct. box for $28.97. The space reserved for the stuff was EMPTY! Darn! So...began looking at the latest stock of Zombie when something in the corner of my eye caught my attention. Hiding behind those Zombies was a secret stash of the 100 ct. box of Federals. YES!

Just got paid today, so I bought FOUR boxes of the goods! TucsonMTB, you should be proud of me. "More is Better!" Just as soon as that recoil spring from MetroArms arrives I'm taking my toys to the Range. Will let you all know how it goes!

Thanks for walking me through this journey, KahrTalk! Bawanna is right....YOU ROCK!

....and Bawanna, thanks for your patience as we continue our discussion about some custom Bawannaized grips for this 1911. Get some rest and stop breathin' in that Coco Bolo dust!!!

[TucsonMTB]

TucsonMTB, you should be proud of me.
I am. Most assuredly, I am. http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/thumbsup.gif