New guy saying hi w/a PM9

[riceboy72]

Greetings everyone,

First off, let me say how cool it is that I came across this forum which is dedicated to the Kahr line, not just a 'subsection' of some of the larger forums which aren't bad by any means, but aren't as informative compared to what I've found here. I am impressed by what I've seen here and hope to contribute and learn quite a bit.

Three days ago, I bought a near new PM9 DLC from a guy who needed to get rid of it because of a new baby. He had bought it back in August 2008 and had Meprolight Night Sights installed when he purchased it, and told me he ran 300 rounds to complete the break in period. I got the pistol, case, two mags (the 6 & 7 round mags), and a Kramer IWB for $600. I am beyond pleased with this pistol!!

On my way home, I stopped at the indoor range and ran a quick 50 rounds of 115 grain FMJ through it with nary a hiccup. It fired, and it fired, and it fired!! The recoil was much softer than I anticipated and to be honest, I think it shot better than the P9 I bought for my girlfriend as her backup pistol / off duty gun.

Being 5'6" and 100 pounds, the P9 does not wear as well on her vest as we'd hoped it would, so I grabbed the PM9 for her to try and I think it'll work better. If she likes the PM9 better, then it's hers and I'll carry the P9 for my summer gun. Currently I carry a 642 when it gets warm, but in my opinion, the PM9 shoots better and is considerably more comfortable and accurate than the 642. Overall, this pistol's just awesome. I will be happy with whatever my girlfriend chooses because I don't think I could lose out with either pistol. This little guy's quite the shooter, as is evidenced with the targets. The one on the left was rounds 15-25 at 20 feet; the one on the right was rounds 40-50 also at 20 feet. Once I figured out POA, POI, and the trigger, it became quite the shooter. I field stripped and cleaned it thoroughly and was a bit concerned about the bowing in the dust cover area, but have since read that it's normal and of no concern.

It's definitely a keeper!!




http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg300/riceboy72/SDC14577.jpg?t=1268286800

[Bawanna]

Welcome aboard. It looks and sounds like that little gem is a keeper. And how thoughtful to let your girlfriend have first choice.
Lots of good guys and information around here and always a good time.
Glad your here.:cool:

[G26ster]

Once I figured out POA, POI, and the trigger, it became quite the shooter.


First, welcome. You'll find a lot of useful info here.

I haven't been here long myself. I've been trying to figure out the proper sight picture on my PM9. On most guns I would make the front sight level in the rear notch for a sight picture. On the PM9, by doing this, I'm shooting low. However, the sights seem very similar to the XS big dots. Can someone confirm that you simply "dot the i" and don't try to level the front sight with the rear notch? I was going to go back to the range today to try that out, but wrenched my back so it will be a few days or so before I can return.

I've searched the forum and the web for a graphic of the proper sight picture, but have come up empty.

[Dietrich]

Your name intrigues me.Did you attend Rice University by chance? Anyway,welcome to the forum.I have a PM9 and a 642 as well, but like you,I prefer the Kahr by quite a sizable margin.I wonder if the guy who sold it to you had a tough time deciding whether to sell the PM9 or the baby.Just kidding!!! I believe you`ll enjoy this forum.The people here are happy to help in any way they can and look forward to your input.Let us know who ends up with the PM9.:)

[Vinikahr]

Welcome to the board, did you mean G*** Talk? Yeah that place is full of :crazy:. Thanks for sharing the story.

[deadhead1971]

Can someone confirm that you simply "dot the i" and don't try to level the front sight with the rear notch?

G26--The answer is yes for me too. The front sight is higher than the rear--I put the front sight white dot over (covering it) the target.


Once I figured out POA, POI, and the trigger, it became quite the shooter.

Welcome riceboy. Most of us are nuts! Can you describe in a little more detail what you figured out? --how you aim? is the POI aligned with the sights ...etc. Also describe your trigger finger--do you press the trigger back in on motion or do you pull it back right before the breaking point and then press? What part of your finger is on the tigger?--is the tigger in the first finger joint or is the trigger between the tip fingernail and the first joint?

I have almost 1,200 rds through the PM9, and I am not consistent. Sometimes I shoot ok, and other times I stink. You shoot very well so I want to know what you figured out. Thanks.

[jocko]

IMO, one should practice shooting with POA (point of aim) with seeing clearly the front sight only. The front sight is always your friend. See it clearly and everything else will fall in place. In a cirtical situation, you will not be lining up anything. let alone back sight front sight and target. First of allyou cannot see all three clearly anyhow. It is imposable to focus clearly on allthree of those sights/object. the eyes cannot do it,

You can get super good with POA and definitely super fast with POA, now your not gonna shoot groups like riceboy72 shot but again he was not POA shooting either and he was inside a shooting range under ideal condtions. But your groups will be good and they willbe fast. One willbe very surpsied as to how good he can get with POA shooting. In defense situations, it is the cats nuts. riceboy 72 groups at that distance to me are awesome by the way. I cannot do that ,course my PM9 is still in its break in session as it only has 25,800 rounds through it, so maybe it willget better in time--u think???

Try POA and forget about how you line up the back sight witht he front sight etc. You will see that they all line up automatically once you get the nack of POA shooting.

[recoilguy]

Nice grouping Riceboy......nice gun, welcome there is a lot of very good and very informed people here. If you own a Kahr this place is great. If ylu don't it still is a great place to come too.

RCG

[riceboy72]

First off, thank you for the warm welcome!! Everyone here seems very friendly and very knowledgeable, and I am going to enjoy being here.

As for the PM9, this little guy was impressive!! It was a good shooter and it had mild recoil. I enjoyed my time with it, although as I'm sure you all know, 50 rounds doesn't last long out there!!

Regarding POA / POI with the PM9, it was tricky at first to figure out. I put the sights on my first magazine of five shots right in the middle of the orange dot and slowly squeezed the trigger. All five shots were centered, but were high - like top of the orange into the black high (I wish I had kept that target to show the progression). My next magazine was just below the imaginary horizontal centerline and I was still shooting high, but not as high as the first magazine. The target on the left illustrates the first string of five shots in my fourth magazine where I was still shooting high, and then my conscious lowering of the sights which resulted in a better grouping in the fifth magazine. The target on the right was the last two magazines, where I more or less found the sweet spot.

I have the Meprolight night sights which are three dot configuration for anyone who has never seen them, so I line the three dots up and then focus on the front sight only and nothing around or beyond it. The rear sight and target become somewhat blurry to me and that front sight is dead clear, as I pull back on the trigger and I let the gun surprise me. I am a 1911 fan and have been for many years, so I have a bad habit of using the front part of the pad on my finger to shoot everything. That didn't work with the PM9. I also do not stop to check the target while I'm shooting; I only check it after I am done. While my finger's on the trigger, I am staring at that front sight. I was in a controlled environment at an indoor range where things like weather and lighting were not a factor, so I'd like to get outside and put this gun through a bit more to see how it does. I'd also like to shoot it a bit faster, and I'll post those targets after I get back from that session. Jocko, POA shooting is next on my agenda!!

Back to the trigger - I just went and grabbed it and checked, and it seems I prefer to have my finger about in the middle of the pad, and then I slowly pull the trigger back in a smooth, deliberate motion until it goes bang. I do not stage the trigger because it was drilled early on in my shooting that staging a trigger could lead to a bad situation if adrenaline takes over.

Not to get all mushy, but I bought this gun for my girlfriend so she could see which she preferred - the P9 which I bought for her originally or the PM9. She says she likes the P9 but she's not seen the PM9 yet. She has been carrying the P9 off duty, but her small frame just doesn't accommodate the frame size when it's on her vest, so I think the PM9 will suit her better. Whichever one she shoots better with and favors is the one she can have. We got into trying to find her a backup gun after the law enforcement community in Washington lost a Seattle PD Officer on Halloween night to gunfire. Then, as many of you will remember, we lost four Lakewood Officers at the end of November and then one of our own from Pierce County at the end of December, all due to gunfire. Now, more than ever, became the evident fact that she needed to carry a backup pistol and improve her skills with her duty pistol. Next week is qualification and she's going to transition to a Springfield Armory Lightweight Champion Operator as she likes the single stack guns better than the issue Glock 22. She also finds favor in the larger bullet and better trigger of the 1911. The rate of officer involved shootings in our area has increased, and she wants to be ahead of the curve if it ever comes to it. She is very important to me so buying her quality equipment that works for her and she has confidence in is huge. She tried the 642 and didn't care for the recoil; she's also left handed so a revolver wasn't the best setup for her.

Thank you again for the warm welcome!! In my short time here, I must say I'm impressed so far!!

[Bawanna]

Many of our guys here from Monroe went to those memorials. The rest of us left behind to hold down the fort worked very hard mostly watching on tv. They were all very well done, very somber but respectful. Four officers in one memorial was beyond comprehension. Unbelieveable. And on top of the other two you mentioned also. Not a good few months in Washington. I hope we never ever have to do anything like that again. I'm very happy that the Seattle officer was alert enough to recognize the mouse trap and came out victorious over the shooter. I'm sure he's feeling tons of conflicting emotions but he should be dang proud. He's every officers hero and especially for the families of the lost officers. I got my Lakewood memorial hat just earlier this week, it'll be in a place of honor long as I'm drawing air.
Sound's like your LE also, as well as your girlfriend?
Enjoy that new shooter, hope your girl gets along fine with the Springfield.
Be safe.

[jocko]

your girlfriend will like and dislike it. As long a u give her the gun loaded she will be OK but we all know that is not the proper way to learn guns afety. She IMO will not be able to rack the slide on the PM9 to load that first round. Try her with some racking priactice on just an empty magazine and see if she can even rack the slide enough to lock the slide open. then load a magazine up for her and test her out. If the slide is locked back she can load the gun easily, as all she needs to do is hit the maga release lever and the gun will do the rest. but for her tryingto rack a live roundin the gun is just not gonna work. I hate to say it so soundly but test it out. She has to be totally confident withthe gun or she willnot use or carry it. She has to be able to clear a malfuncction or she will loose faith in it fast. You have to train her in that also.

No doubt in my mind the best gun for her was the 642 J frame, the recoil is not nice but she willnot love the PM9 that much better IMO. but at least with a revolver, she can, load and unload it, any malfunction, just pullthe trigger and go tothe next hole. You can buy corbon glazer rounds for that wheel gun that would be awesome for a woman to carry, they are effective and she need not be totaly on target either. I have found we men tend to buy for our women WHAT WE THING THEY NEED and not what they can handle...

I'm left handed and a wheel gun is no disadvantage IMO.

[riceboy72]

Bawanna45cal,

Yes, that was a really rough time in Washington. Kent Mundell was a personal friend so when we lost him, that took alot out of me. If you're interested in challenge coins, they were made for the Lakewood Officers and for Deputy Mundell. Let me know. And if you're a hat kinda guy, there was a hat made for Deputy Mundell, too. It has a design of Mount Rainier on the front with "Mountain Detachment" above it, then "423, gone but not forgotten" on the backside.

Jocko,

She's not exactly the normal female in that she has many years experience under her belt as a police officer and is very proficient with various weapons systems. I hate to admit it, but she can outdo me on her AR15. I won't be the one training her on the Springfield or the Kahr, although we have shot together and she does just fine. She knows her skills and limitations, so when she told me she did not like the 642, I knew she was done with it. I trust her aptitude and skill level, and I'm confident she'll adapt to whichever Kahr she chooses. But you're right, that little bugger is hard to rack at times!!

[Bawanna]

Bawanna45cal,

Yes, that was a really rough time in Washington. Kent Mundell was a personal friend so when we lost him, that took alot out of me. If you're interested in challenge coins, they were made for the Lakewood Officers and for Deputy Mundell. Let me know.

Jocko,

She's not exactly the normal female in that she has many years experience under her belt as a police officer and is very proficient with various weapons systems. I hate to admit it, but she can outdo me on her AR15. I won't be the one training her on the Springfield or the Kahr, although we have shot together and she does just fine. She knows her skills and limitations, so when she told me she did not like the 642, I knew she was done with it. I trust her aptitude and skill level, and I'm confident she'll adapt to whichever Kahr she chooses. But you're right, that little bugger is hard to rack at times!!

Mr. Jocko, I gotta concur with Riceboy on this one. As a backup gun it will be loaded and ready to deploy from her vest. Once it's determined it's stone cold reliable or as much as can be expected. Thats why they carry back up guns. For my part I'd have that 642 on her ankle as well, even more insurance. Call me paranoid but if I could hang a Laws rocket on her back to help her go gome at end of shift I'd do it. If I could ride on the passenger side with a rifle to cover every contact, I'd do that too! No such thing as an unfair advantage for officers. I'm just a civilian office puke armorer but my guys know I'm enroute (unauthorized of course) when they are in a jam. The hard slide racking is true your points logical, but I think even without knowing that this girl is on a higher plain than the average. Maybe like Ms Zena and Ms MX5? Officer Tina Griswold, one of the fallen Lakewood officers was also 5ft tall and 100 pounds but I'm told she was downright wiry. On Swat, a little pitbull. Bottom line is she'll have to determine what shes comfortable with. Maybe your still right and I'll bow to your wisdom, that's why your the oracle.

[Bawanna]

Mr. Riceboy. PM Sent.

[deadhead1971]

Thanks for the response. Good luck in trying to keep the PM for yourself! It's gonna come down to whether or not she likes a dangling pinkie.

[riceboy72]

The night I shot it at the range, I tried the Pearce magazine extensions just for kicks and didn't care for them. They were more uncomfortable to use versus using the original flat baseplate. Pinched my finger with the recoil and I found myself shooting better without it.

Only thing I did when I got it home and after a good bath was cut a section of bike innertube, punched four holes in it, and then stretched it over the grip to help it have a better feel and to cut back on the checkering on the frontstrap. While I didn't mind it, I could see how a few hundred rounds could make your hand feel tender.

And I'd be happy with either gun. That P9 just fits so nicely in my hand, but man, this PM9 is quite the shooter. I'll let you know what she picks once she shoots both guns.

[deadhead1971]

I have tried the pearce grips on the 6 rd mag for the first and last time last week. It feels good in your hand but after 200 rds, I had a nasty pinkie blister. Plus I pocket carry the PM9, and the pearce grips are too tight for jeans.

[wyntrout]

The night I shot it at the range, I tried the Pearce magazine extensions just for kicks and didn't care for them. They were more uncomfortable to use versus using the original flat baseplate. Pinched my finger with the recoil and I found myself shooting better without it.

Only thing I did when I got it home and after a good bath was cut a section of bike innertube, punched four holes in it, and then stretched it over the grip to help it have a better feel and to cut back on the checkering on the frontstrap. While I didn't mind it, I could see how a few hundred rounds could make your hand feel tender.

And I'd be happy with either gun. That P9 just fits so nicely in my hand, but man, this PM9 is quite the shooter. I'll let you know what she picks once she shoots both guns.

The PM45 is worse. I think that they DID pattern the grip from a hammer-type meat tenderizer. It seems a lot sharper than the PM9, though I'm kind of thinking of putting a tube on my PM9. I just worry about the increased friction of the tube causing too many inadvertent exposures.:eek:
Wynn:D

[riceboy72]

I've been using innertube grips for many years now and I gotta tell you, they last a long time!! I particularly like how they do not change the thickness of the grip and a one mountain bike innertube goes a long way. Have used them on several Heckler & Koch P2000's, Glocks, and Sigs Sauer pistols. I've never had a friction problem with them, and find them almost a 'must do' for me with guns that can safely wear one, of course.

[GregD]

Welcome !

[Bawanna]

I've been using innertube grips for many years now and I gotta tell you, they last a long time!! I particularly like how they do not change the thickness of the grip and a one mountain bike innertube goes a long way. Have used them on several Heckler & Koch P2000's, Glocks, and Sigs Sauer pistols. I've never had a friction problem with them, and find them almost a 'must do' for me with guns that can safely wear one, of course.

My version of the innertube.

[Bawanna]

HOLY COW BAWANNA ! that is the BUTT UGLIEST gun I have ever seen !!!!
It kinda reminds me of Nancy Pelosi .

Yup but it ain't slippery like her, its a very positive grip and it works. I did after I read a guy say if your afraid remember it's just a glock. You can't make it any uglier. Personally I think I succeeded but again it works. It's actually not quite as ugly in person as it is in the pic, this was the first try, I used better stuff on the last time, no green tea snapple but not so glossy.
Guess you sort of had to be there.

[Bawanna]

she's also left handed so a revolver wasn't the best setup for her.

Thank you again for the warm welcome!! In my short time here, I must say I'm impressed so far!![/QUOTE]

Mr. Riceboy72, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking of your girlfriend. Well that didn't come out sounding very good huh. Lets begin again. I woke up thinking about the above statement regarding your girlfriend in my dreams in the middle of the night. Wrong again.
Anyhow, does that Springfield shes transitioning to come equipped with an ambi safety? I had a couple of our guys who were lefty trying Kimbers and we really had a struggle with the ambi's. They worked great strong side (not to imply shes not normal being lefty but in truth she isn't, but my wife isn't either and I constantly remind her of same), but using the left off side just didn't work as slick. Might want make sure you address that. I'm curious how that goes. I have a mueske that I'm playing with that shows more promise. We gave up on the officers since we transitioned to G21's from Beretta's. All issued resolved except ugly. Could you post pictures of your girlfriend?

[riceboy72]

Mr. Riceboy72, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking of your girlfriend. Well that didn't come out sounding very good huh. Lets begin again. I woke up thinking about the above statement regarding your girlfriend in my dreams in the middle of the night. Wrong again.


Ha ha ha. This was darn funny to read. I am familiar with ambi safeties that get 'sticky' and seem to hang up when being engaged back and forth. I had that happen on a custom pistol one time and wasn't pleased with it. Surprisingly, the ambi safety on both her Operator and mine works well. One of the first things I did after I got her the pistol was to clean and lube it, then flick the safety on and off again repeatedly for two hours to get it loosened up (trust me, I had the blister to prove it). But it engages/disengages positively with the comforting 'click' and does not hang up whatsoever. Seems like SA got their ambi safety right, whereas I've never been a fan of the Kimber safety. I only own one Kimber now, and it's a Compact Stainless Series I that's completely stock. I'd like to switch out the MIM parts for some higher quality pieces, but that'll be a project I take on in the future.

And here's the kicker: She came over tonight after range day and I handed her the PM9. She held it, smiled, and said she liked the feel of the P9 better. Oh well. I'm still going to send it with her when she goes back for qualifications so she can shoot both. Whatever I end up with, I'll be happy. They're both awesome pistols and the important thing is that a) she's carrying off duty whereas before we met, she never did, and b) she's going to be carrying a backup pistol. I pray she never needs it, but if she does, she's got a great gun to rely on.

[zena]

Riceboy--Welcome! Aren't you sweet to buy such a nice gun and let her chose! If she's anything short of VERY APPRECIATIVE, I am available and love the PM9. (Mind you, Bawanna has proposed and we do have some elaborate wedding plans that also involve mx5, but he hasn't "shown me the money" if you get my drift.) I go no where without my PM9 and am thinking I need a second one, just in case. Hope you stick around , share knowledge and have some fun with us.

[riceboy72]

Zena,

Thank you for the warm welcome!! I'll definitely stick around and stay for a bit.

I do tend to spoil my girlfriend. Not just with shiny things and trips to Hawaii, but with guns, too. Gunwise, I've bought her:

- Kahr P9 with IWB for off duty carry
- Kahr PM9 but it sounds like I get this one (fine with me!)
- Springfield Armory Lightweight Champion Operator w/5 Wilson Combat 47D magazines, duty holster, and quad mag pouch
- Rock River AR15 w/EOTech 552, Surefire 9V weaponlight, Tango Down foregrip, Blackhawk 2-point Tac sling, and Magpul P-mags

Yep, I'd say she's spoiled. Her coming home at night is what's most important, and she can handle every single of those weapons like she's an old pro. After 15 years in the military and 3 years on the street, I'd say she's getting there.