Sons of Guns, MP18 legal?

[ripley16]

I saw the episode of Sons of Guns that included the segment on the reactivation of a WWI MP18. The gun had a plugged barrel, which was replaced, but otherwise was ready to use. My question is; How could this machine gun be retrofitted with new parts and rendered usable without violating regulations on automatic weapons? What would would make this one an exception to the 1969 limits?

[jocko]

Ask; al gore

[muggsy]

I saw the episode of Sons of Guns that included the segment on the reactivation of a WWI MP18. The gun had a plugged barrel, which was replaced, but otherwise was ready to use. My question is; How could this machine gun be retrofitted with new parts and rendered usable without violating regulations on automatic weapons? What would would make this one an exception to the 1969 limits?

I believe that if you have a Class III FFL you can build anything that you want. You just have to comply with the federal firearms laws. You can own a machine gun if you pass a background check and pay $200 for a license for each gun.

[ripley16]

I believe that if you have a Class III FFL you can build anything that you want. You just have to comply with the federal firearms laws. You can own a machine gun if you pass a background check and pay $200 for a license for each gun.

A manufacturer or gunsmith can build a full auto machine gun for military or LE use only as far as I understand. A civilian owned auto is limited to those that existed and were registered prior to 1969. A machine gun not registered wuth BATF must be destroyed by law. The owner of the gun was a movie prop provider and therefore not able to own a newly created machine gun.

I'm guessing the whole deal was somehow legal, or they wouldn't have televised it. I just don't understand how though.

The owner of Red Jacket lost his FFL due to some incident a few years ago. He evidently plays loose with the law from time to time. I wonder if this particular show segment was legal? :confused:

[jocko]

u might be right muggsy and to add to that this mod they did, and even obtaiing a $200 permit to own it, might also restrict them from ever selling it to anyone. I know a class 3 dealer in my home town who trade out locak PD out of their most eautiful tompson sub, I have ever seen. a lady here in my home town foundit in her basement after her husband died and just gaveit tothe local PD. He was a bootlegger big time in theday. anyway this class 3 dealer told me tha the trade the local PD out of that thomsponb for someAR-15 inexhange and he can own it, he can shoot it, he can leave it to his son, but he cannot sell that gun.. This thompson was iigh gloss blue, flip up adjustable sights, with drm mag and 2 stake type magazines in a custom fitting case. Just looks totlly new buthas to be close to a 100 years old, I would think.

[ripley16]

...might also restrict them from ever selling it to anyone

That's the point. Red Jacket didn't own the gun. A civilian showed up with a non-functioning prop, and RJ turned it into a SMG.


...and he can own it, he can shoot it, he can leave it to his son, but he cannot sell that gun

If it is a legal, registered SMG, then why can't he sell it? There are no laws that stop the sale of a legal auto, provided it's transfered properly.

[jocko]

I am just the messenger here. My thoughts ar ethat being it came from a POlice dpet, that could be the deterent, asit was a gift to them so to my knowledge no paperwork or anything was ever done before this new owner took possession. I have no clue to that question ..

I cantellu this frommy own experience. WhenI was 16yearsold I wantedtomodify a single shot Ithaca 22saddlegun (hope most can remember whatIam talkingabout) anyways my intentions was to propprtionally scaledown everythinbg, barrel, stock, forearm etc. I wentto out locka chief of police (mind u a small asstownhere) I aks what canI do legally here, he wrote down the specs for me. so I proceededtodo all this work. when it was alldone I then sent it to Ithaca Gun for them toget refinished. (big mistake). the gun wasillegal in the demension specs, the barrel was 1"to short and over all length was OK, anyways it wasnot longafterthat I have a visit from two ATF agents and they had my rifel. They proceeded to tellme what I had done etc and wanted an explanation. I stillhad the demensitons written down by the plice cheif and told them what Idid to e legal etc. They went and looked up the police cheif and he indeed told them I had come to him and he gave methe specs andI guess he was wrong. anyway I got into noproblems but te ATF jseizewd the gun and said it wouldhave to be kept in their archives etc. I nver seenit or them again SH!t HAPPENS.. I could not buy a $200 license to own this gun either...

I know some years back there was an amnesty period for all machine guns tha thad never been registered and the $200 stamp bought. U could at the time register it and buy that $200 stamp and then be legal to someday sell it etc, , but after the amnesty period, u had no rights to ever register it..

I once owned aq full auto AR-15 that I had bought legally through a local class 3 dealer, paid the $200 fee and all that crap. Had the gun for 10 years and one day my insurance agent approaced me about buying it. I said yes, we arrived at a a price but he first had to go to a class 3 dealer and go throught the process of buying the stamp $200 and waiting for a full background check and then I could let this dealer do the transfer for me to him..

[muggsy]

Let's set the record straight.

http://www.historicarmsclass3.com/Qualified_Purchasers.html

[ripley16]

Let's set the record straight.

http://www.historicarmsclass3.com/Qualified_Purchasers.html

I've never said that civilians cannot own machine guns. They can, provided they qualify via a background check, pay the fees, and find one of the 230,000 or so guns that are available. You cannot buy a machine gun made after 1969. You cannot add to the list of registered machine guns, regardless of when they were made. If you were to discover a bring-back in your granddad's attic, let's say a WWII German MP44, a Thompson, a M2 carbine, etc., and it wasn't registered prior to 1969, that gun would be illegal to own. I know of no exceptions.

That brings us to my question... how did Red Jacket legally create a new, (never before registered with the BATF), firearm that was owned by a civilian. Another way to look at it... why would a legal, registered MP18 have been deactivated?

I'm at a loss to understand how they did this.

[jlottmc]

First the date is 1986. Second the receiver is the part that is on the registry, meaning that parts and such are no biggie to replace. As for the getting it on the registry, no clue there unless it was already there. I know for a fact that there are some bring back type trophies that are included in a military units armory list, and they have been thoroughly de-milled (receivers torch cut, barrels plugged etc.). Perhaps it is along those lines, or perhaps it is listed as a semi-auto replica, again as for the new entry on the registry I have not a clue.

[Longitude Zero]

A civilian owned auto is limited to those that existed and were registered prior to 1969.

I have a M4 SBR selective fire and the weapon and all its parts were manufactured two years ago. So I call this an error. Manufactures are building civilian legal to own selective fire aka full auto presently. Ask Larue in Texas along with numerous other manufacturers.

[jocko]

That's the point. Red Jacket didn't own the gun. A civilian showed up with a non-functioning prop, and RJ turned it into a SMG.



If it is a legal, registered SMG, then why can't he sell it? There are no laws that stop the sale of a legal auto, provided it's transfered properly.

are thqatthis gun wasnever registered under the amnesty act and the fee everpaid. This ol lady didn't even know it was there. It was her husband who bought it years before any laws were made against owning a SMG. u know at one timeu could buy them in a sear type catalog even. I am assumng when the Police was givent hegun by this ol lady tha ttye just put it in their arsenal and forgot about it, for anutter 20+ years. My friend the class 3 dealer traded them out of the gun fully knowing it was not a gun that could ever be resold due to the way it cam eto him. Makes no sense but I am just gonna assume because it came from a police dept that is where the glitch is..

[ripley16]

First the date is 1986. .

Yes, thanks for the correction. Brain fart.:o

Longitude Zero said;

I have a M4 SBR selective fire and the weapon and all its parts were manufactured two years ago. So I call this an error. Manufactures are building civilian legal to own selective fire aka full auto presently.

How did you come by this M4? Are you in LE, sell or manufacture arms? By my reading, a civilian cannot own a gun not on the registry, according to info such as this...

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/nfa_faqhtml.html#Owning_Or_Making_An_NFA_Weapon


I'm guessing the gun was registered, not deactivated, only rendered unshootable, so as to be safe to use in movies. That thought hadn't occured to me. Deactivating would have meant the barrel would have been welded to the reciever. I think that's the answer, otherwise someone was in for a visit from the BATF.

[tv_racin_fan]

You can put a registered sear in a new built gun.