Bawanna is in big trouble!

[muggsy]

You're badly out numbered.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/02/washington-state-poll.html

[Bawanna]

Anything is an improvement over what we have. I'm hoping McKenna wins and he should hands down. I've met him and I got a favorable impression.

I'm not impresses with Inslee.

I have larger positions to worry about at the moment and it's not big deal for me to move to another state. Been thinking about it anyhow.

[Alfonse]

That article is from February! McKenna is a good guy. Reagan Dunn is too. We'll see.

[muggsy]

I wasn't referring to the candidates. I was referring to the popularity of pot and gay marriage in the state of Washington. Something in your water?

[Bawanna]

It seems to be going around and in all likely hood both will pass. I think we're too close to California and we get a lot of them migrating up to our neck of the woods to get away and then they try to recreate the same awful things up here.

Fortunately most of the same sex marriage folks stay pretty close to the high density big cities. They seem to thrive on crowds, traffic, bad air and all the other wonderful attributes of a high density city.

As for the legal dope, it's gonna get ugly. Morals are already circling the drain and more and more are going down too. Gotta end sometime.

[Longitude Zero]

Ya know the Pacific NW has had a very liberal bend for all remembered history. I like the City of Seattle if only I could elimiate its residents lock, stock and barrell. Then it would be a nice place to live.

[knkali]

the war on drugs is very expensive and is not working therefore, from a cost analysis viewpoint, it is better to legalize it before we put most of the population behind bars. Think 21st amendment. Besides someone has to be on the outside to pay taxes. Flamesuit on.

[Bawanna]

Ya know the Pacific NW has had a very liberal bend for all remembered history. I like the City of Seattle if only I could elimiate its residents lock, stock and barrell. Then it would be a nice place to live.

Exactly! If you don't mind I'll get me and mine out of the area and you can call in an air strike. We'll let things cool down and come back and try not to let it get screwed up again.
Funny the East side doesn't seem to be nearly so messed up. I imagine Spokane might be a little.

[Bawanna]

the war on drugs is very expensive and is not working therefore, from a cost analysis viewpoint, it is better to legalize it before we put most of the population behind bars. Think 21st amendment. Besides someone has to be on the outside to pay taxes. Flamesuit on.

I agree but look at the cost of drunk drivers. Course in our state they make a ton of money from taxes on booze. Even with emphasis patrols it don't seem to slow it down much.
Now we get to add punks high on cheeba who will probably get a DUI slap on the wrist and no charges for the dope.

The war on drugs is kind of like any war with rules (think Viet Nam) they don't want to win, too many jobs rely on it.

If I'm still breathing after Romney and Ryan both serve their terms and I decide to run myself, I'll show you how to win the war on drugs.

[jocko]

Anything is an improvement over what we have. I'm hoping McKenna wins and he should hands down. I've met him and I got a favorable impression.

I'm not impresses with Inslee.

I have larger positions to worry about at the moment and it's not big deal for me to move to another state. Been thinking about it anyhow.

Indiana BUT ASK FIRST. total background check , race, religion, politiacal affiliation,k globing warming attitude. green subsidized energy over what we have naturally under ground, food preference. gun control, sex with dogs,registered sex offender status, (i. e. on probation or now off probation). Prison record. drug relationship. (i. e. seller or buyer) boprder crossings, (i. e. letting Illinois crooks into Indiana). attitude about going before an all black review board, and then an all hispanic eview board and if u get past them, then an all white "hunkie' review board.

After than welcome aboard to the Hoosier state, past home of a$$hole Bob Knight, but home f good ol jocko..

[muggsy]

the war on drugs is very expensive and is not working therefore, from a cost analysis viewpoint, it is better to legalize it before we put most of the population behind bars. Think 21st amendment. Besides someone has to be on the outside to pay taxes. Flamesuit on.

I won't flame you, Knkali, but I will say this. Most new laws have good intentions, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If it passes, within a very short period of time the unintended consequences of the law will come to light. I would be willing to bet that neither of these laws are supported by God fearing conservatives on either side of the aisle. You don't win a war by pulling the troops out.

[JFootin]

the war on drugs is very expensive and is not working therefore, from a cost analysis viewpoint, it is better to legalize it before we put most of the population behind bars. Think 21st amendment. Besides someone has to be on the outside to pay taxes. Flamesuit on.

+1. Pot, in particular, should be decriminalized. Not addictive. Not as much affect on coordination, though driving under the influence is a bad idea and should be ticketable if they can figure out a way to measure intoxication. Not good on still developing brains, so there should be an age limit. Shoot, tax the sale of it, but not as ourageously as they tax cigarettes. Illegal importation or sale should still be punishable by law. Drug gangs and cartels should be put out of business. It should be perfectly legal to grow one's own for personal consumption and sharing with friends or family, but not for resale.

A little acid, mescaline, shrooms. Not so bad. But how do you eliminate the criminal element? And if all of it is legalized, wouldn't the FDA want to raise safety and health issues?

The more dangerous and addictive drugs present different problems. The drug criminals need to be thwarted, but government subsidization of addicts should not be done, either. What possible good comes from getting hooked on heroin, or cocaine, or that poisonous methamphetimine? How could we in good conscience allow legal sale and consumption of these drugs? What about abuse of prescription drugs?

But pot smokers going to jail? Come on!

[Longitude Zero]

I would not be averse to the decriminilization of pot. As to the rest of the illegal drugs I would hammer the HELL out of the sellers and users. LSD, Meth, Heroin and many others have NO beneficial usage except to addict and enslave the user. Get them treatment the firs time they are caught. After that I have NO MERCY and would have no hesitation of draconian punishments.

[knkali]

It would be a tough and dramatic change from the status quo for sure to make any changes for legalization or decriminalization of said substances; howver, lets not over look the " legal "addiction and or abuse to prescription meds in this country. I will end my thoughts here because this thread is getting hijacked.

[Alfonse]

Ya know the Pacific NW has had a very liberal bend for all remembered history. I like the City of Seattle if only I could elimiate its residents lock, stock and barrell. Then it would be a nice place to live.

Your remembered history might not be long enough. For instance, Ballard used to be an area thick with Scandinavian fisherman. They were a fairly conservative lot.

In the days of Emmet Watson columns, who wrote tirelessly about not "Californicating" Washington with his attempts to found "Lesser Seattle" the area had a different bend.

Certainly things have changed these days. Californication is complete in the Seattle area.

In my part of the state, we have no elected democrats. Try to keep the fallout from the blasts on the west side of the mountains if it gets to that.

[Alfonse]

Singapore does not have much of a problem with drug cartels, etc. Their laws are very strict. They are not going into a "war" on drugs intending to lose. I'm not necessarily saying this is what should be done, but it does speak to another method of "taking out the criminal element" in the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_Drugs_Act_%28Singapore%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_Drugs_Act_%28Singapore%29)

[JFootin]

I would not be averse to the decriminilization of pot. As to the rest of the illegal drugs I would hammer the HELL out of the sellers and users. LSD, Meth, Heroin and many others have NO beneficial usage except to addict and enslave the user. Get them treatment the firs time they are caught. After that I have NO MERCY and would have no hesitation of draconian punishments.

LSD is not addictive or enslaving. Just a recreational diversion. You need to replace it with cocaine in your statement, and I am +1.

[Bawanna]

Your contributing with the flow of moral collapse. One little chip at a time until anything goes. Now marijuana, next maybe meth as long as you make it yourself and do it in your house, don't sweat the fire hazard and the children.

Imagine visiting your grandchildren and mom and dad are enjoying a doobie, laughing about the dirty diaper that needs changing.

Why not tax marijuana as much or more than cigarettes. Cigarettes are legal. Oh an age limit cause it's not good on their minds, what about 10 year olds smoking cigarettes. Not legal but they do it. How do you control that and do so without advocating even more big brother government.

Everything is slipping, wrong is often times not so bad now. The line between moral and immoral keeps getting pushed further and further out.

knkali, this thread isn't getting hijacked at all. All relative.

[jocko]

whats a "doobie"???

Hope no relation to Doobie Houser. Course he gets doobied all the time, so I hear. Just sayin

I know, I know, jocko get ur mindout of the gutters, I know. I think Ihave been taking to much of Joe Theismans BETE PROSTRATE, courst I have had no prostrate for over 15 years, so I think it has went to my other organ. They did not tell me that on the bottle. Sometimes makes it very uncomforatable riding a motorcyle. Just sayin OK, I 'll stop.have a bottle of Crest mouth wash right besides my computer.

[Bawanna]

I'd use Ivory and make sure you chew.

[muggsy]

+1. Pot, in particular, should be decriminalized. Not addictive. Not as much affect on coordination, though driving under the influence is a bad idea and should be ticketable if they can figure out a way to measure intoxication. Not good on still developing brains, so there should be an age limit. Shoot, tax the sale of it, but not as ourageously as they tax cigarettes. Illegal importation or sale should still be punishable by law. Drug gangs and cartels should be put out of business. It should be perfectly legal to grow one's own for personal consumption and sharing with friends or family, but not for resale.

A little acid, mescaline, shrooms. Not so bad. But how do you eliminate the criminal element? And if all of it is legalized, wouldn't the FDA want to raise safety and health issues?

The more dangerous and addictive drugs present different problems. The drug criminals need to be thwarted, but government subsidization of addicts should not be done, either. What possible good comes from getting hooked on heroin, or cocaine, or that poisonous methamphetimine? How could we in good conscience allow legal sale and consumption of these drugs? What about abuse of prescription drugs?

But pot smokers going to jail? Come on!

Why do you think they call it dope?

[JFootin]

Well, NONE of those drugs were illegal a few decades ago. Now, even something as mild as pot is considered evil and there are countless people in jail and with lives ruined by criminal prosecution since it was criminalized. We see case after case of repeat DUI offenders getting off easy for years and decades until they finally kill someone. And yet you have people going to jail for intent to distribute because they tried to stock up and bought more than 1/4 ounce of pot at one time. The whole world has gone crazy! :eek:

[yqtszhj]

Your contributing with the flow of moral collapse. One little chip at a time until anything goes. Now marijuana, next maybe meth as long as you make it yourself and do it in your house, don't sweat the fire hazard and the children.

Imagine visiting your grandchildren and mom and dad are enjoying a doobie, laughing about the dirty diaper that needs changing.

Why not tax marijuana as much or more than cigarettes. Cigarettes are legal. Oh an age limit cause it's not good on their minds, what about 10 year olds smoking cigarettes. Not legal but they do it. How do you control that and do so without advocating even more big brother government.

Everything is slipping, wrong is often times not so bad now. The line between moral and immoral keeps getting pushed further and further out.

knkali, this thread isn't getting hijacked at all. All relative.

When you figure out the place to move where folks agree with you, let me know. I'm in with you. Too many down sides to giving in although I agree we are not winning.

How about I take a liberal position first, let's educate everyone on how bad it is :hippie: ONCE, then when that don't work take the conservative position, PUNISHMENT! That's how I raised the kids and so far that's worked out OK.

[Alfonse]

Well, NONE of those drugs were illegal a few decades ago. Now, even something as mild as pot is considered evil and there are countless people in jail and with lives ruined by criminal prosecution since it was criminalized. We see case after case of repeat DUI offenders getting off easy for years and decades until they finally kill someone. And yet you have people going to jail for intent to distribute because they tried to stock up and bought more than 1/4 ounce of pot at one time. The whole world has gone crazy! :eek:

The penalty in Singapore is hanging if you have more than 500 grams of cannabis. For meth, is is 250 grams. 30 grams of cannabis (marijuana, pot, etc.) is all you need to be considered a trafficker. That is 1.1 ounces. Wow!

However, I never ran across anyone doing illicit drugs in Singapore. Just saying...

[Alfonse]

When you figure out the place to move where folks agree with you, let me know.

Private city in Honduras will have minimal taxes, government (http://capitalismisfreedom.com/liberty-news/private-city-honduras-will-have-minimal-taxes-government)


I suppose it could work.

[muggsy]

Well, NONE of those drugs were illegal a few decades ago. Now, even something as mild as pot is considered evil and there are countless people in jail and with lives ruined by criminal prosecution since it was criminalized. We see case after case of repeat DUI offenders getting off easy for years and decades until they finally kill someone. And yet you have people going to jail for intent to distribute because they tried to stock up and bought more than 1/4 ounce of pot at one time. The whole world has gone crazy! :eek:

Having read all of the pro-drug rhetoric, I believe I'm changing my mind. In fact, while we're at it, I think that we should legalize prostitution, too. Every woman comes equipped for the job and can do it with little or no experience and/or training. It would go a long way toward lowering the unemployment rate and bring in much need tax revenue to cut the deficit. After all what harm could there be in sex between consenting adults? I'm sure that none of us would mind our wives or daughters making a little money on the side or on their backs as the case might be. I say when in Rome do as the Romans do. They did and it worked out well for them, didn't it? Besides, no super power lasts forever and it's time for the U.S. to take it's rightful place on history's trash pile. (Said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.)

[johnh]

I am game with some changes like that if we do a total reboot of the system. I want everyone responsible for their own actions. You make your choices, you live with the results. No government baby sitter or safety net. If you get high, you crash your car and kill someone, you go to the chair. If you own various firearms of any type, no problem at all unless you commit a crime with them. Then you go to jail and the key is thrown away.

Yes, I have been reading "The Ashes" (http://williamjohnstone.net/New-2011/Ashes.html) series and have gotten fired up. The older I get, the more sense it makes to get rid of most of the government regulations and just let people be--but hold them fully accountable for the consequences of their choices.

[muggsy]

I've been thinking about this gay marriage thing a lot. Why should straight people be the only ones to suffer. Right now the gays are free to have sex with as many partners as they want. I think that we should start limiting their fun, too. Hell, more than half of the straight marriages end in divorce. Why should the gays get off scot free. I've always believed in equality. It's high time that the gays should have to pay the marriage penalty. (Note: the phrase scot free comes from the old English word sceot which meant tax.) :)

[Bawanna]

I am game with some changes like that if we do a total reboot of the system. I want everyone responsible for their own actions. You make your choices, you live with the results. No government baby sitter or safety net. If you get high, you crash your car and kill someone, you go to the chair. If you own various firearms of any type, no problem at all unless you commit a crime with them. Then you go to jail and the key is thrown away.

Yes, I have been reading "The Ashes" (http://williamjohnstone.net/New-2011/Ashes.html) series and have gotten fired up. The older I get, the more sense it makes to get rid of most of the government regulations and just let people be--but hold them fully accountable for the consequences of their choices.

The Ashes Series rocks. I'm on book 26. Read the first 5 or so 30 years ago, didn't realize there were more. Started over at 1 and been reading them in order for quite a spell. I don't know what I'm gonna do when I hit the end. It will be a sad day for sure. Maybe my secret pal that's fixing me up with the Ashes books will find something to keep me going.
It's amazing to me how close the book could be to reality these days.

[O'Dell]

I guess it's time to dip my foot into this water. I'll start by saying that I have NEVER used any illegal substance including marijuana nor do I drink. I did smoke for forty years, but quit the end of June. As John said none of these drugs were illegal one hundred+ years ago. Of course real scourges like met and crack hadn't been invented then. I see no reason to outlaw marijuana any more than alcohol. However it should be taxed like alcohol, and the partaker should be 100% responsible if someone else is harmed by his use. The war on drug is already lost in case you haven't noticed. At the very least this would take one item off the illegal menu and stop providing the 'dealer' their huge profits. Some years ago a study at the Harvard Medical School determined that treatment and education would be a far better use of our resources and would also provide a far better result.

[Bawanna]

Nothing much would change, it would still be underground, they tax cigarettes so people go to the indian reservations and get them tax free.

Unless there's some sort of proof that the weed was bought at a business and tax was paid versus corner purchase from Bubba's weed and tequila emporium no money will be made.

I've never smoked the stuff either so maybe I'm missing something. I did smoke for 30 + years and quite about 6 years ago. After about 500 attempts to quit.

Again I don't see it as a war on drugs, it's more of a police action with a lot of hands tied behind the back.
I say ignore the border, go down and kick in the doors of the drug cartel big boys and bring back them truckloads of money, pay off our national debt.
Actually it's probably better letting the drug cartel save up money for us than our own politicians.

If the leaders in Mexico want to protect their bad guys (can you say CORRUPTION) then tell them to bring it. We should probably annex it anyhow and just clean it up. That is when we clean up our own administration, congress and senate.

[muggsy]

I guess it's time to dip my foot into this water. I'll start by saying that I have NEVER used any illegal substance including marijuana nor do I drink. I did smoke for forty years, but quit the end of June. As John said none of these drugs were illegal one hundred+ years ago. Of course real scourges like met and crack hadn't been invented then. I see no reason to outlaw marijuana any more than alcohol. However it should be taxed like alcohol, and the partaker should be 100% responsible if someone else is harmed by his use. The war on drug is already lost in case you haven't noticed. At the very least this would take one item off the illegal menu and stop providing the 'dealer' their huge profits. Some years ago a study at the Harvard Medical School determined that treatment and education would be a far better use of our resources and would also provide a far better result.

The only difference that I can see is that you can enjoy a drink or two without getting drunk, but I've never heard of anyone smoking pot for anything but the effect. I've never met a social pot smoker. Why anyone would want to alter their mind is beyond me. I was a three pack a day Marlboro man when I quit smoking. The money I used to waste on smoking now goes to better pursuits.

[Bawanna]

The only difference that I can see is that you can enjoy a drink or two without getting drunk, but I've never heard of anyone smoking pot for anything but the effect. I've never met a social pot smoker. Why anyone would want to alter their mind is beyond me. I was a three pack a day Marlboro man when I quit smoking. The money I used to waste on smoking now goes to better pursuits.

Me as well. Not usually 3 a day but 2 +usually.

I still don't seem to have any money so I have not idea where the money I'm not burning is going. It sure ain't going towards gun or ammunition which is basically all I care about.

[Don K.]

Pot not addictive? maybe not but I have talked with many recovered addicts (myself included)over the years and not very many skipped the Pot 'stepping stone' on their way to the "harder" drugs.

Short-term pleasure = long term pain

A tough problem for sure...like has been said previously, legalization does not solve the problem.

[jocko]

that sh!t is pretty hard on a persons teeth. at least from most of the arrest photos I see of people on drugs. A dentist dream no doubt..

[MW surveyor]

Here's something you won't see publicized

[jocko]

well I hope not. Goofy's my man, my idol. Just sayin.

Goofy needs no ice either. He's there already..

[JFootin]

Having read all of the pro-drug rhetoric, I believe I'm changing my mind. In fact, while we're at it, I think that we should legalize prostitution, too. Every woman comes equipped for the job and can do it with little or no experience and/or training. It would go a long way toward lowering the unemployment rate and bring in much need tax revenue to cut the deficit. After all what harm could there be in sex between consenting adults? I'm sure that none of us would mind our wives or daughters making a little money on the side or on their backs as the case might be. I say when in Rome do as the Romans do. They did and it worked out well for them, didn't it? Besides, no super power lasts forever and it's time for the U.S. to take it's rightful place on history's trash pile. (Said with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.)

Muggsy, it's unreasonable to make such a parallel. The only reason marijuana is cosidered bad is because it has been unfairly criminalized. I am way far from promoting unrestrained sinful behavior. And, BTW, people do smoke it socially. Many people use it in small amounts medically, such as I did many years ago to pull myself out of deep depression. It's not all Cheech & Chong "Up in Smoke." I haven't touched it in many years, but when I did, I would have just 3 tokes after supper to relax me and soothe away the stress of a work day. Didn't show up on a random drug test because I used so little of it.

And, BTW, the only reason marijuana has been called a "gateway drug" is because, what with it being declared illegal, it is supplied by drug dealers who also sell the other stuff. There is nothing inherent in marijuana that lures people into the seriously bad drugs. It is just that the same people sell both. In fact, even calling it a "DRUG" is ridiculous!

[O'Dell]

I know little about social pot smoking or social drinking since I've never done either, but since drugs are responsible for most of the crime in this country, I want to reduce it. Marijuana is a small start, but it is a start to remove some of the profit for the smugglers and suppliers. As a plus, it would add to the tax base.

Being of a Libertarian bent, I am a big believer in personal responsibility and the idea that nothing should be illegal unless it adversely affects the life, liberty, health or property of another. I'm not quite ready to suggest the legalization of all drugs yet, because I know our society is not ready to force individuals to live with the bad choices they make. We're all about safety nets and requiring responsible people to pay for the irresponsibility of others.