Update with K9 - Drama with the P9 on my first trip to the range!

[wyntrout]

I got to the range for the first time yesterday... had drag my feet a bit for some ammo coming in that I wanted to test. I left about 3PM after grabbing a box of the latest shipment... some .40 S&W Winchester Ranger Bonded 165-grain JHP, along with the PPU 180-gr TMJ delivered the day before.

I grabbed a variety of 9mm for the P9 and took along my PM9 for testing and wore my P40, since I wanted to try the new ammo, too.

I had about 3 1/2 poly bags of 50 left fromf a case of 1000 rounds of remanufactured <<reloads>> 124-gr FMJ that I bought around 12-13 years or so ago at a gun show. I have fired about 826 rounds of that over the years with no problems and figured to shoot a bag and a half at the range. I also had a box of S&B 124-gr FMJ and a Box of Federal Champion 115-gr FMJ, as well as a 20-round box + of Speer 124-gr +P GDSB to test as my usual defense ammo.

I started with the P9... great pistol and easy to shoot. I tend to jerk the trigger but the bullets would go where I was aiming when I didn't jerk the trigger.

I went through one round of mags of S&B, then half a box of the Craig Remanufactured stuff. I opened the next poly bag and loaded 3 or 4 7-round mags and started shooting at 15 yards range. On round #20 there was a funny bang and it was like my hand had been slapped. The web and base of my thumb and trigger finger hurt a bit and were a little red. The side plate had blown off and was lying on the table. I laid the pistol on the table and checked my hand... no cut or blood, so I wiped at it a bit and got my camera and started taking pictures.

If you ever have a problem like this, stop and see what's missing. I didn't know the extractor was gone until I put the pistol back together and fired a round that didn't eject. THEN I saw the extractor spring lying on the table. The extractor and pin were nowhere around, but they were still in the pistol until I fired that NEXT shot. I had to wait about 15 minutes until the one other shooter finished and then got permission to go look for the parts. I looked all over... in and round my bag and did quite a bit of looking on the concrete floor about 8 stations wide and over yards out. I didn't go that far out, though, and had no luck... lots of debris. There was one patient couple loading mags and getting ready, so I quit looking and shot my other two pistols... the PM9 and the P40. I did some videoing of the various ammo being fired for comparison. I haven't had a chance to play with pulling stills from that, yet, as I'm not familiar with what software I have available on my Ubuntu-powered PC. It sucks that I didn't get the burst case on the video, dangit!:rolleyes:

Each of the poly bags has the little "inspection sheets". I got all of that ammo back into one bag and taped it up. I don't know if any of the rest might but "heavy" loads, but I might try it in the K9. It won't blow out and the barrel is really sturdy.

More after these photos.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I'll show some more pix of the damage. I had enough tools and spare parts to replace the pin and extractor, using my spare PM9 extractor. It fit and worked fine.

For those who haven't seen my post on the PM9's extractor flying off to parts unknown, I decided to buy extractors and enough springs and pins for several full losses of those parts. All of the P380 parts... rear pin, spring, front pin and extractor are smaller than than those of the other polymer Kahrs. All of the larger Kahrs' extractors are different... supposedly..., the springs are the same, the front pins are the same, the rear pins of all are the same, EXCEPT for the PM45 and other .45's, which have larger rear pins. So you don't need 4 parts for each pistol.
For the larger pistols, the .40's extractor(middle) is marked several ways, the PM9/P9's are unmarked, and the .45 has two dimples http://kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6572&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1348322813

The side plate blew off and ripped off over the larger part of the retainer pin. I pulled the pin out with pliers and then reinserted it with the plate back in place. Some more pix... burst cartridge and side plate. One photo has the burst one in the center rear with a bunch of 9mm that may or may not have all been fired in my pistols, for comparison. There's a picture of a nick in the follower and the re-assembled side plate. I might take that off or figure some way to make that look neater... or, at worst, just buy another side plate and pin.

I came off pretty cheaply with this incident as I found the danged extractor lying under my feet as I was getting ready to leave!:rolleyes: So I only lost the front pin which costs a bit over a buck and I still have two of everything besides the extractors as spares. This was the first time that I carried so many tools and my spare parts!

I'll try to show a few targets and the ammo I used. Pictures of flashes might take a bit longer... not sure of what I can do with what I have here, but I saw something about stills when looking at the videos.

Wynn:)

[powwowell]

Wow! I'm glad there was no injury to your hand.

I've read some posts on other forums, that A-Merc ammunition was difficult to reload due to the size of the primer pocket. I would say that this round had another, more serious problem.

[powwowell]

The primer on the burst round, is perforated. Bad primer? Double charge and pressure ruptured the primer?

Your experience does prove that Kahrs can weather Ka-Booms.

[wyntrout]

I had already dumped the brass that I salvaged into a big jug and just grabbed several handfuls from the jug for comparison. I know I saw several with that headstamp when I was loading magazines. 1 bad one out of 850 rounds or so isn't too bad, I GUESS! But I'll save the rest of that ammo for my K9. It's a lot sturdier.

My hand wasn't really hurt, other than some temporary pain and numbness... more shock than anything. It was kind of surreal and I just laid the gun down and check my hand.

After I gave up on looking for the parts, I went ahead and shot the PM9 a bit and then the Mag-na-ported P40. I hope that I got some good comparisons of flashes to post later.

I really enjoyed shooting the P9 and hope that I don't hurt it any more!:rolleyes:

I can sure tell when I start shooting the defense ammo after FMJ! I accidentally started into the defense ammo with the P40... grabbing one magazine loaded with 165-gr Speer Gold Dots... and wondered if I had some more HOT ammo.:D

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

No, the primer is just flattened more. That's shadow... not a hole. It was a good thing that I had all of my "tools" and a ramrod to remove that case. If I had noticed the extractor was gone, I wouldn't have lost the front pin. I had three more with me.

The magazine follower had that one nick on the middle left side and I just sanded it smooth. The pistol worked fine after I got it back together... without the additional drama of "SPROING" from letting any spring trains go flying! I had everything I needed to strip the slide down..."C"-clamp and screwdrivers, especially the small jeweller's screwdriver for the back plate pin.

I'm uploading a 720P HD video of the last 7 rounds I fired before leaving the range... P9 firing 7 rounds of Speer 124-grain +P Gold Dot Short Barrel. The first I jerked high, then 5 good ones, and then I jerked the last one!:rolleyes: You can see the target as I marked it.

It will take a few minutes before I can post the link. The .mov file is 215MB long. It was going at about 175KB/s. I have about 17-18 Mbps down but only about 1.5 Mbps upload and Photobucket is limited with bandwidth demands. Only about 10% had made it up so far! This will take a long time!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Dang! I just took a separate picture of that last target. I'll upload it now!

I added the "+P" to the GDSB.

I've got to get up early and take my van in for service and so won't get to the "flashes" tonight.

Here's the video link:
http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/10%20October%202012%20Range%20Trip/?action=view&current=P9afterrepair7Speer165gGDSB_3455.mp4

Wynn:)

[jocko]

ur lucky my friend. very lucky

[JERRY]

glad youre o.k., that safety side plate probably saved you some real injury.

reloads are russian roulette, especially if theyre somebody elses.

[les strat]

With the P series having polygonal rifling, is it possible that shooting reloads has caused lead build up incresasing pressures to dangerous levels (like in Glocks)?

I have the CM9, which has traditional rifling, so I haven't really considered this, but just a thought.

Glad you are ok. It could have been much worse.

[TucsonMTB]

Looking at the remains of the case that blew out, I don't see the flattened primer that is typically one result of an over charged round. That leads me to suspect the case was somehow weakened by multiple reloads or somehow defective. Uhm . . . I am so NOT an expert in this area.

In any event, your experience with reloaded 9mm, which is usually safe according to my friends who reload, reinforces our house rule against shooting reloads, even from reputable, commercial reloaders . . . not to mention something picked up at a gunshow with an unknown pedigree.

Admittedly, with so many unsupported Glock chambers out there, the danger is even greater with the "fotay" that I shoot. But, the rule still stands for us, even when we shoot relatively mild .380 ACP. Several years ago, my wife did experience a KABoom with commercial Federal American Eagle in that caliber . . . so, we are more sensitive to this issue than most people.

Glad you are OK. Glad you don't have any expensive repairs to make. Hope you can afford to avoid reloads in the future.

http://home.mindspring.com/~justsomeguy/KT_Bad_News.JPG

My wife's pistol. Fortunately, she also escaped any injury. :)

[jocko]

that kelteklooks like the results of a squib round, being it split the barrel. Seen that before on kt's when a squib round was the culprit. Just sayin. She was very lucky indeed.

[TucsonMTB]

Nope! Not a squib. I was spotting and saw the bullet from the round before the KABoom hit the relatively new target. Even the offending round's bullet was a pretty good shot.

Yes, she was luckier than she realized. She wasn't even upset and continued to shoot, switching to her trusty 1911. I was very proud of her. :)

Now, admittedly, I was wearing ear protection, but even the sounds of the round before and offending round were too normal to draw attention. That same batch of Federal American Eagle had at least one other round with a case that was too poorly formed to feed correctly. We don't shoot American Eagle anything since that experience . . . :rolleyes:

Kel-Tec was cool about it. They asked for the pistol and the end flap from the box of ammo and returned a new pistol with the same serial number in a few weeks. All without asking for any payment . . . and without any drama or whining on their part or mine.

[wyntrout]

Wow! That was great of KelTec! That sure looks like damage from a blocked barrel, though, with damage that far forward.

This was FMJ and I only had these "re-manufactured" 9mm FMJ for range use... and like I said... been working on using them up, but after about 850 good rounds and one bad, I'll save the rest for my K9. I don't shoot lead bullets... just copper or brass jacketed/plated/coated... whatever. I just buy good ammo, though I keep thinking about some stuff in tins for when the SHTF! Ammo in popular calibers will be good barter items... better than paper or non-precious metal money.

Wynn:)

[s4s4u]

All I can say is WOW! I shoot reloads in my CW45, but they are my own. I've seen some poly frames blown up by double charges through unsupported chambers. I have little doubt that a steel frame would fare better but the weight can be a bit inconvenient. Lucky there was no injury.

[Nomad]

I'm really glad to see you weren't injured in any way. It speaks well for the Kahr design.

Being reloads and looking at the pictures it smacks of a case being loaded once too often or an overcharge. You'd think someone doing remanufactured ammo would use only once fired brass but I supose it is possible a bad one could slip in. Frankly though, I'd put my money on an overcharge probably a double charge.

[wyntrout]

Well, I had about 150 rounds left out of 1,000 of the Craig reloads. I went through those and picked out 5 of the A*MERC cased reloads. I planned to shoot them in my all-steel K9 at the range. I took all of my 9mm Kahrs to the range... PM9, P9, and K9.

I had almost 100 rounds of the Craig ammo with me, leaving 50 rounds at home. I started with the K9 shooting that ammo until I had shot 50 rounds or so and emptied my pre-loaded magazines. Then I took the 5 A*MERC cased rounds and loaded them up. Unfortunately, I chose to focus the danged camera on the target, instead of the pistol.:rolleyes: Round one about 4:30 on target circle... round two almost dead center... gun jammed. Yep, it happened again... case rupture and on closer examination the extractor was gone.

When I fired the second round, I felt debris hit my face, but only a light sting. I had my shooting glasses on.

I have three rounds left that have the A (dot) MERC cases and will tear those down and fire off the primers. I think the other cases are okay and some day I'll shoot the last 50 in the K9.

Now I have to order yet another extractor from Kahr... maybe two! I have spares for all of the other Kahrs. I don't know if the P/PM9 extractors will fit the K9. The PM9 did fit the P9 fine, though.

I'm still peeved that I did not have the camera focused on the pistol! I had been videoing the target and using the CT Laser Grip on the K9.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I pulled the bullets apart with some pliers, burned the powder, and fired the primed cases.

I had a wee bit of drama with the powder. I used a plastic nose spray cover, a piece of regular 3/4" gift-wrapping tape, and a ~4" piece of cannon fuse to burn the powder... pictured below. I hadn't figured that the fuse alone would become a rocket motor and start the whole thing to spinning... it being so light!

I was trying to video the powder burn and was standing in front of my closed front door when things went a little awry! I had no place to go as the little missile went “out of control". It went off camera before the powder ignited but I was slightly alarmed by the danged thing starting to spin and run about from the danged FUSE burning with gusto!:eek:

I was trying to upload the video of the powder burn, but just too much trouble! I seemed to have it on Photobucket, but it has been a PITA fooling with it! I'm on my Ubuntu Machine and sometimes there are ISSUES! GRRR!!!:31::smash:


There was no real problem, though.:rolleyes:


Wynn:D

[TucsonMTB]

There was no real problem, though.:rolleyes:

Wynn:D
Ya' know, that's the same line of cr@p I used to feed my mom when I was kid and engaged in similar activity . . . none of which will be recounted here.

I plead the fifth! ;)

Sure hope you never grow up . . . and I mean that in a good way, not that you will expire from your misadventures. Honest.

[wyntrout]

Oh, I still do some stuff that worries me sometimes, but I was really wild as a kid. I got a chemistry set when I was 12 and quickly ran out of gunpowder ingredients, but could buy those at the drug store! I could make hydrogen and several other neat things... all that could go boom! It's a wonder I got past 12. I started salvaging dud firecrackers at age 8 and made my own "heavy duty" cr@cker balls. That reminded me of those crazy guys at some Mexican(?) festival that hit larger and larger amounts of explosives with a sledge hammer... sometimes knocking themselves unconscious!

I just can't "waste" stuff that can burn or explode!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

This was a funny Dilbert today. His pointy-haired boss is to the left and the CEO to the right:

http://synd.imgsrv.uclick.com/comics/dt/2012/dt121108.gif

[wyntrout]

Someone try this link and let me know if it works. I can't get working videos to play... but it may be this Ubuntu-powered PC.

http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Powder%20Burn/

Wynn:)

[TucsonMTB]

Yep! And it was pretty funny when your rocket fuse powered helicopter took off! :)

At least you were bright enough to do it outdoors rather than down in the basement where I used to test my rocket fuel.

[wyntrout]

Since an older video wouldn't play, I thought it might be this OS. I got pretty frustrated before I figured it might be software related. I did play it a time ro two on PB, then no response!

I'm firing up the Windows PC... XP Media Edition... fokked up. I just ordered Win 7 Pro... an OEM set that will allow running XP stuff. I want to get my Quad-CPU going on 64-bit Win 7 and see if that will help me. Th XP seems to be screwed up and I don't want to wipe the disk and start anew!:eek:

I didn't expect that fuse to act like a danged rocket! I really missed the powder burn because I was trying to back through the closed front door as that thing took off!

Wynn:D

[wyntrout]

I got my PC going and the videos work. Here's one of my SA Champion 4" giving my son a "lovetap":

http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Patrick%20shoots/?action=view&current=Patrickgetsdingedby45ACPcase.mp4

Wynn:D

[TucsonMTB]

That really was a "love tap".

Before I adjusted the extractor tension, my CBOB use to nail me good. Left a mark on my forehead and smarted! :o

[wyntrout]

I've recounted how my first outing with my PM45 really peppered my forehead. I went shopping at Walmart after shooting and then saw myself in the mirror when I got home. My forehead was covered with at least a dozen black marks. People must have really wondered WTF??

I always wear a Kahr cap and safety glasses now. With the bill FORWARD and pulled down, I can dodge anything, but haven't had the "lovetap" problem with anything in a long time. After several trips back to the factory and a new frame, the PM45 stopped doing that... somewhere along the way.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I deleted my photos and account at Photobucket... just another form of ransomware!