New Appreciation for Revolvers

[OldLincoln]

Neighbors & I were talking about the latest robbery near here when they mentioned they have signed up to get their CCW. That began a discussion about guns and concealed carry and ranges. He mentioned he has a LC9 and a revolver and she said she likes the revolver. He said she just hasn't gotten used to the LC9 yet. I said a lot of women prefer a revolver and it's okay.

A couple nights later they came over with their LC9 and we played guns as I pointed out the differences between that and the Kahr. Their LC9 is CA compliant and not haven ever seen one I remarked it looks good. She said she likes the revolver. We had fun with that a couple minutes me saying that's a good gun for a girl but someday when you're a big girl you'll want a real gun. Of course the guy laughed and she said wait a minute buster (she knew it was all in fun).

I had problems between the safety and mag disconnect and said I wouldn't want to get faced down by a bad guy coming at me and screw that up. She said she like the revolver.

After talking a bit longer I said I'd like to see the revolver (which he had left home) so we went across the street to their house. He brings out the most beautiful revolver I've ever seen. It's a KLCR-357 (below) that weighs the same as my PM9 and is about the same size.

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/images/5450.jpg

I about fell over as the last revolver I'd held was a Colt Trouper 357 that weighed over 2lbs. This gun felt "right" and it fits her better than either my PM9 or his PC9. We talked about it and she pointed out there's no knobs or buttons so she just points it and pulls the trigger. She stopped all further auto discussion with... and it doesn't jam.

I told her I totally agree with her and she found her perfect gun. I thought her husband was going to be sick for a minute but I had already established my creds before we looked at it. He finally bought into it and both were happy.

We agreed to going shooting and I will help them as neither has taken a class. They thought the CCW qualification was that class but I explained. I'm going to get them to the range and work with them because they will waste the session if they fail.

Anyway, I haven't been a fan of SD revolvers and still prefer an auto, but for a beginners (and those who simply prefer) SD gun that might be the way to go.

[Bawanna]

I had similar thoughts when I first held the LCR, light, felt good in the hand, not nuts about the looks.

I rented one a short time later and one cylinder full was enough for me. My son struggled to finish off the box of 50 but I was happy to give it back.
The trigger was horrible and hurt, I couldn't hit a barn door with it and the recoil was just not nice.

I got my wife a 638 shortly after jfootin got his and while the trigger is a bit heavy we both shoot it well.
I just ordered my aunt one about an hour ago. She's widowed and wants something. Wasn't fond of her Colt Vest pocket 25, I got that by the way and the Smith 39 was too big and hard for her to manipulate. It's near perfect and I'm working on getting that too, I'm a gun hoarder.


I hope you get to shoot with them and let me know what you think, I'm convinced from all the good reports on them that I just happened to get a bad one. They just can't be as popular as they are if they are all like the one I rented. I didn't like it one bit.

[MW surveyor]

OL - Make sure that she does not start out with full bore 357s in that thing! See if you or her husband can find some 38 special 148 grain wad cutters for the initial firing, then move to 38 specials. Better yet, get them to buy you a set of 38 dies and you can make her some light recoil practice rounds. That way, after you shoot her gun and go buy you one, you'll have the dies to reload for your own. LOL.

Bawanna - you probably got a bad one or the range had not cleaned it in a while. The LCR has a much better trigger than my 638 even after I did the trigger job on it. The only reason I got the 638 instead of the LCR was that the j frame is still smaller than the LCR.

[Alfonse]

I picked up an LCR a little while ago. I actually like the trigger better than the J frame Smiths I've shot.

It is pretty punishing as a range gun. 50 rounds gets my hand sore between my thumb and forefinger unlike any of my other pistols. But, that's the light weight. Whether 9mm, .40 or .45, my other pistols never make my hand sore.

I am thinking of picking up some of these for practicing with it, http://www.cabelas.com/product/Clothing/Mens-Hunting-Clothing/Mens-Shooting-Clothing/Mens-Shooting-Gloves|/pc/104797080/c/104748480/sc/104563080/i/104001480/Cabelas-Leather-Handgun-Gloves/725699.uts

I still prefer to carry my PM9 but actually shoot the LCR more accurately. For some reason, the sights work better for my eyes. The PM9 is a much more comfortable carry for me.

[MW surveyor]

Gloves, Alphonse, gloves? Man up!

[Alfonse]

LOL! I hear you! :) But, if I can shoot without banging up my hands I figure they might not hurt as much in a few years. I use that type of logic because I raced motorcycles once. If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. So, yeah, I would use gloves.

I have some vehicles with automatic transmissions now too. I even appreciate those things like electric locks, power windows and stuff I used to just think made cars too heavy. Thinking of taking up wake boarding too because the falls from slalom skiing seem to break things now. Age gives me such perspective. Still don't own a Buick though.

[JFootin]

I had similar thoughts when I first held the LCR, light, felt good in the hand, not nuts about the looks.

I rented one a short time later and one cylinder full was enough for me. My son struggled to finish off the box of 50 but I was happy to give it back.
The trigger was horrible and hurt, I couldn't hit a barn door with it and the recoil was just not nice.

I got my wife a 638 shortly after jfootin got his and while the trigger is a bit heavy we both shoot it well.
I just ordered my aunt one about an hour ago. She's widowed and wants something. Wasn't fond of her Colt Vest pocket 25, I got that by the way and the Smith 39 was too big and hard for her to manipulate. It's near perfect and I'm working on getting that too, I'm a gun hoarder.


I hope you get to shoot with them and let me know what you think, I'm convinced from all the good reports on them that I just happened to get a bad one. They just can't be as popular as they are if they are all like the one I rented. I didn't like it one bit.

She might just want to carry 38 SD ammo in it instead of 357. It might make for a more controllable weapon for her.

With my partially paralyzed hands and wrists that are slowly getting worse, I made the decision to get a J frame. It turned out to be quite a hassle before I found the right gunsmith to do a real trigger job on it for me, reducing the DA pull to 4.25 lb with positive primer hits. (I could not pull the stock 11 lb DA trigger at all.) Now, I absolutely love this gun! :D

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/My638.jpg

[les strat]

The simplicity and ultimate reliability of a revolver is a great thing. The recoil on that particular revolver.... I'll pass. The LC9 will outshoot it in follow up shots and probably accuracy with the longer barrel. But whatever she is most comfortable with works best.

I think for women who want a SA pistol to keep in their jumbled up purse, the LC9 and it's safety features are a good choice. My wife likes hers. Not as smooth as my CM9, but still a good small 9 and goes boom every time.

[jocko]

I had similar thoughts when I first held the LCR, light, felt good in the hand, not nuts about the looks.

I rented one a short time later and one cylinder full was enough for me. My son struggled to finish off the box of 50 but I was happy to give it back.
The trigger was horrible and hurt, I couldn't hit a barn door with it and the recoil was just not nice.

I got my wife a 638 shortly after jfootin got his and while the trigger is a bit heavy we both shoot it well.
I just ordered my aunt one about an hour ago. She's widowed and wants something. Wasn't fond of her Colt Vest pocket 25, I got that by the way and the Smith 39 was too big and hard for her to manipulate. It's near perfect and I'm working on getting that too, I'm a gun hoarder.


I hope you get to shoot with them and let me know what you think, I'm convinced from all the good reports on them that I just happened to get a bad one. They just can't be as popular as they are if they are all like the one I rented. I didn't like it one bit.

and were talkin about WHEELGUNS. could possably ,,, great one, my theory that a wheel gun is an easy gun for a woman to cuddle up to, could it be true??? or are u just messin with my mind??:der:

Even more so if one will do what JFootin did and rework the trigger system, a woman can realy get accurate with a nice wheelgun . Just sayin

[Fxstchewy]

I have a KLCR and i really like it, it has less recoil than my SP101 in 357mag, i think it has something to do with the grips or frame,

[Alfonse]

+1 on the suggestion to start out the range session with some 38 special. They may even want to use 38 +p rather than 357 for self defense ammo. The 357 gives them all those options and even though it is light, it weighs more than the .38 +P which has an aluminum alloy frame versus steel in the 357. That bit of extra mass helps with taming the recoil a bit.

[QuercusMax]

Sadly - or Happily, depending upon how you want to look at it - I have concluded that the best thing to have by my bedside is a revolver.

I have been an automatic gun forever, but I just don't like the whole thing of "one in the pipe" and spring-loaded mags sitting around for years. The whole thing is just SO much easier with a revolver.

My S&W 686P can stay loaded by my bedside for as long as I want with no worries, but if I want to take it out and shoot it, I can just dump the rounds in the cylinder for the day and then put them back in later, with no worries.

Love my automatics - all of them - but they just aren't as easy to care for.

[cgo99]

I got me an LCR 357 at the beginning of this year after I went hiking with the kids and having a face to face encounter with big hog on the trail. At that moment my beloved PM9 did not seem enough to stand between the behemoth and my kids, thankfully nothing happened but I went and got me an LCR 357 the following week after some research.
I got to say the trigger in the LCR is the closest thing you are going to find to a Kahr trigger in a revolver (and I love my Kahr trigger).
The KLCR is no range gun for sure but 38 ammo is pleasant and 357 ammo is bearable, also quite accurate and concealable for some of the more public parks.
The KLCR since has become my camping, hiking or otherwise harsh weather gun.

[dhgeyer]

I've always liked revolvers. I think it's a good idea for anyone new to handguns to start with one. I also think they make great nightstand guns. For carry, though, I have always found them to be uncomfortable in an IWB holster due to the cylinder chafing. I have carried quite a few in different sizes and shapes, and always ended up tired of them. I also find that semi-autos offer a better trade off between weight, size, accuracy, and capacity. I've never been able to find a revolver that's just the right size for carry.

A factor that no one has mentioned yet is the difference in the way the two types recoil. The revolver is solid - the recoil is one impulse, which tends to come almost like a shock wave. On a semi-auto the slide starts moving as soon as the bullet does, and temporarily absorbs some of the recoil. The recoil comes in two stages, neither of which is as hard as a revolver. So, all else being equal (weight, power factor, grip comfort, and etc.) the semi-auto feels more comfortable to shoot.

I had a S&W 340PD, which weighs about 12 ounces. It's a 357, but I only shot +P's out of it, and even with a Hogue grip it was brutal. The Kahr CW9 is a little heavier, has about the same power, doesn't have the uncomfortable bump that digs into my side after a while, and just generally is a better trade off for me. And it doesn't hurt to shoot it. Also the sights were way off on the 340PD. The Kahr is pretty close to dead on, and much more accurate.

I have carried K frame Smiths, E frame Colts, Rugers, J frame Smiths, even L frame Smiths. Never really worked for me. I can also carry a Glock 19 or an M&P Full size 9mm without discomfort.

Still, I love a good revolver for house duty or fun at the range. I have a weakness for Colt Single Actions. They're really my favorite guns.

[OldLincoln]

The trigger felt fine, as said much like the Kahr. The man said he got a few 357 rounds to try and the salesman said these will be the last you buy. Man spoke of serious pain and they don't even have any 357 now, only 38.

The wife likes it and handles the recoil well although she hasn't shot it much. I've seen her lug heavy stuff around and know she is tough. She may not enjoy recoil but she will handle it just fine as long as it's not 357.

The biggest issue for her is how to carry it. She works in serious medical home care and goes all over the place to residences she doesn't know. She carries medical gear into them and typically doesn't even carry her purse needing both hands for the gear. I believe she needs a fanny pack to keep hands free but that will come up later.

[mr surveyor]

I never lost my appreciation for revolvers....particularly classic all steel revolvers. I carry one every day on the job and have for many years. The only time I carry a semi (now either a CW9 or CM9...rarely any others) is when I absolutely have to "dress around" the gun. In the last two years of having a 3" SP101 .357 mag, and the many hours of bonding with it, I feel under gunned without it, unless I happen to have the SRH .44 mag on hand:D. The only reason I started buying the Kahr pistols was to simplify the manual of arms down to the same as my long time daily field carry revolvers. The Berettas, Sigs, Stars, and everything else (well....except for my treasured Kimber Compact) with external safeties (and, except for a Ruger MKII) are gone. All my carry guns (I don't consider any of my guns to be just "range toys") have the same manual of arms, point and click/bang. I see no difference in them as to their intended use or purpose as they are all designed to punch holes in things that need more holes. Some make bigger holes than others, some make holes faster than others, but when properly used they will make holes.

I have to strongly disagree with the idea that any small, lightweight handgun, whether revolver or semi auto, should be considered for a "beginner"...especially one that may be apprehensive about recoil or sound. The lightweights, particularly in SD calibers, should generally only be used by experienced shooters. New shooters should start out with the heaviest framed gun they can comfortably control, and some of us that have been handling firearms for 40-50 years still prefer solid cold steel.:)

Just my opinion added to stir the pot.

surv

[340pd]

This will be a big hit in our basics firearms class this evening with new first time shooters. Solid, easy to operate and make safe, accurate and will work every time without special manipulation.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t320/gnystrom_photos/686ssr-1-1.jpg

[Barth]

These small revolver threads keep popping up.
And with good reason.
For folks that aren't going to shoot much.
And may not fully test ammo or keep a gun lubed.
A revolver just makes good sense.

Even for experienced shooters.
I find a small 5 shot revolver carries and draws better from a pocket than a micro auto.
And when awakened in the middle of the night,
blurry eyed and disoriented,
a DA revolver is a comforting and comfortable companion.

The LCR has an outstanding trigger for this class of gun.
And I've considered one myself.
But my tuned twin J-frames aren't going to be replace by any other revolver.

And for my nightstand gun?
My S&W 640-1 357 Mag has been replaced by a HK P30 40 13+1 with a Surefire tactical light.

Things change...

[Scoundrel]

And when awakened in the middle of the night,
blurry eyed and disoriented,
a DA revolver is a comforting and comfortable companion.


I can get behind this.
I have some autos and some revolvers.
I carry the autos concealed.

However, the bedside table gun is a Taurus Judge loaded with 000 buckshot.
In the middle of the night, blurry eyed and disoriented, I'll have no problem finding it and getting my hand around it.
I won't have to worry about my grip hitting the mag release or fingers slowing down the slide (or getting cut by the slide).
I won't have to worry about any safeties or racking or feed/ejection issues.
That flanged rubber grip absorbs a lot of recoil and helps to keep a positive grip even with clumsy hands.
It's big and heavy, so it doubles as a club.

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/4510TKR-3SS.jpg

[jocko]

scoundrel. I totally agree u hve the best bedsidew gun money can buy, I keep talking about the judge and sooner tha later I am gonna own one. But I think I want thte 3". but ur photo size is awesome..

[Barth]

+1 on the suggestion to start out the range session with some 38 special. They may even want to use 38 +p rather than 357 for self defense ammo. The 357 gives them all those options and even though it is light, it weighs more than the .38 +P which has an aluminum alloy frame versus steel in the 357. That bit of extra mass helps with taming the recoil a bit.

I've tried a wide variety of 357 Magnum ammo in my 2" and 3" magnum revolvers.

Full house 125 gr 357 ammo run ~1450 from a 4" barrel.
But only ~1200 from a 2" (-250).
Remington Golden Sabers 357 mag run ~1220 from a 4".
But still run ~1100 from a 2" (-120), and ~1190 from a 3" (-30),
with a lot less recoil.

The Sabers are a nice compromise between full power 357 and a 38 +P.
They are my SD ammo of choice in short barrel magnum revolvers.
As for 38 +P, Speer GDHP 135 gr +P Short Barrel is unmatched.

[Scoundrel]

scoundrel. I totally agree u hve the best bedsidew gun money can buy, I keep talking about the judge and sooner tha later I am gonna own one. But I think I want thte 3". but ur photo size is awesome..

The one in the photo is the 2.5" chamber, which is what I own.
The Federal 2.5" shell contains four 000 buck jacketed pellets.

The 3" model is of course about a half inch longer, and Federal makes a load for it containing 5 pellets.

I like to think of it as equivalent to pulling the trigger on a 380 four times, with awesome grouping. It spreads about 6 inches in about 25 feet. Mine likes to spread vertically, which works for me. Others report different patterns.

I also have some 45 LC JHP in the bedside cabinet with it, just in case.

[jocko]

everything about that gun spells to me DEFENSE. Other than a shot gun a great choice for home defese, a grea home gun for a woman IMO. again it is the safety factor they likle: being able to load and unload it, no brain matter needed to make it go boom, she ain't gonna kill the neighbor across the street drinking a beer or beating his wife. NOt gonna hurt the kids in the other bedroom. aAND she doesn't have to be right on target either..

[Barth]

I understand there is a 3" magnum version???

That one has my interest.
3" MATTE STAINLESS 3" MAG CHAMBER
http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/4510TKR_3MAG_01.jpg

This looks interesting too.
PUBLIC DEFENDER POLYMER .410 GA. OR .45 COLT - 5 SHOT
http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/4510PFS_1.jpg

[Scoundrel]

everything about that gun spells to me DEFENSE. Other than a shot gun a great choice for home defese, a grea home gun for a woman IMO. again it is the safety factor they likle: being able to load and unload it, no brain matter needed to make it go boom, she ain't gonna kill the neighbor across the street drinking a beer or beating his wife. NOt gonna hurt the kids in the other bedroom. aAND she doesn't have to be right on target either..

The recoil is surprisingly easy to handle as well.
Part of that is the weight of the revolver. It is a heavy piece of metal, that's for sure.
Another factor is those flanged rubber grips. That allows it to buck without jerking your hand much, and absorbs a lot of the energy.

It's a very comfortable and fun gun to fire. I just wish it weren't so expensive to fire it. Maybe the ammo will get cheaper as the popularity of the 45/410 combo revolver grows (S&W has the Governor, which I don't like as much, despite the capability to use 45 ACP with clips).

[Scoundrel]

I understand there is a 3" magnum version???
That one has my interest.


Indeed, there are many varieties:
http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=41

I want to say this about the Judge as well:
It's clean. It's solid. The fit and finish is good, for the most part. People complain about what the extractor star looks like (it does look a little ragged), but I've never had a problem with the cylinder rotating, timing issues, ejection issues, or indeed any other issues with it. The Judge feels smooth and solid, and it looks great even up close.

By contrast, my friend purchased a Rossi 38 Special revolver for his dad a few months ago. Upon close inspection, it looks like a junker. There are places where it looks like it was cast and that the mold did not fill in all of the way. There are scratches/imperfections on the finish. It looks like it was made in China. Rossi and Taurus are related, but the Judge is in a completely different league than that junky Rossi 38.

[jocko]

dumb question. can u shoot the 2.5" 410 ou tof the 3" judge??

[Scoundrel]

Here's a close-up of that extractor star I mentioned above.

If I were a home intruder, this is the last thing I'd want to see in the hands of the resident.

[Scoundrel]

dumb question. can u shoot the 2.5" 410 ou tof the 3" judge??

Certainly. Of course there is more freebore, but that's not a problem with the .410 shells, and it doesn't seem to be much of a problem for 45 LC in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

At about 33:00, he starts shooting "the gong" which looks about 50 yards downrange, and gets it pretty good.

[mr surveyor]

sure looks like awfully thin cylinder sidewalls

[Scoundrel]

sure looks like awfully thin cylinder sidewalls

It does look that way.

I just did a quick Google search for exploding Judges and only found two notables: One was a knock-off brand that the jerk was firing +P Buffalo Bore rounds through. The other was a guy experimenting with reloads (his own).

I'm not worried.

[Bawanna]

My son has the Governor and I like the feel of it and it shoots very well. I don't really like 45 Colt in it but they do work and they are plenty accurate.

It will only take 2 1/2" 410's so you have to kind of watch what your buying.

They do make some extremely nasty proprietary rounds for it full of jagged metal and stuff. Pricey but does nasty stuff even to a paper target.

I don't recall shooting a Judge so I can't compare one on one but I've held several and find the Governor just as comfy or more so to hang on to.

[Russ]

The simplicity and ultimate reliability of a revolver is a great thing. The recoil on that particular revolver.... I'll pass. The LC9 will outshoot it in follow up shots and probably accuracy with the longer barrel. But whatever she is most comfortable with works best.

I think for women who want a SA pistol to keep in their jumbled up purse, the LC9 and it's safety features are a good choice. My wife likes hers. Not as smooth as my CM9, but still a good small 9 and goes boom every time.

Les

Another good purse gun is my S&W Shield. Some complain about the Manuel safety but I have gotten use to it.

Russ

[QuercusMax]

Still, I love a good revolver for house duty or fun at the range. I have a weakness for Colt Single Actions. They're really my favorite guns.

Me too. My fantasy was fulfilled earlier this year (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14523).

[dhgeyer]

Me too. My fantasy was fulfilled earlier this year (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14523).

Congrats on your 2 Colts. Very nice. It isn't just the name. Nobody makes these cowboy guns like Colt. Never have - never will.

I've managed to accumulate 3 Colt SAA's in the last few years. Two are 7 1/2" .45's, a third generation and a fairly pristine 2nd generation made in 1959. My favorite, though, is a 3d generation nickle plated 5 1/2" 38 special with a factory action job. I've spent hours just photographing it, which is something of a challenge given how shiny it is. I had to use HDR software to do it justice in these 2 images. It also shoots beautifully.

http://www.gallery1700.net/linkto/colt01.jpg


http://www.gallery1700.net/linkto/colt04.jpg

[QuercusMax]

Very nice gun, and very nice photography.

And to think that some guys waste a lot of time photographing women.... ;)

[dhgeyer]

Very nice gun, and very nice photography.

And to think that some guys waste a lot of time photographing women.... ;)

They have nice curves too! :)

And thank you!