close encounter of the fuzzy kind

[Starbug]

Quick background: We have a cougar in the area that is killing people's dogs right on their porches. Big dogs. The killings were either witnessed by the owner or caught on the owner's surveillance video. My neighbor's dog was the first victim, a few others in another neighborhood about a half mile away were next, and now the cat has came back to my neighborhood several times since this began a couple weeks ago. Besides the several dogs that have been killed, there are of course also the deer and other animals whose bodies I've encountered while out hiking. There are always bears and cougars here where I live, work, and hike... it's just part of life here. This is why I bought a carry gun for hiking.

Well, I finally ran into the cougar on yesterday's hike. We had reached the turn-around point in our hike, and as we began to walk back the way we'd come, I took a final glance behind us as a precaution (I constantly scan for signs of cougar or bear)... which is when I saw that we weren't alone. It came up behind us from off the trail, crossed to the other side, and while staying just inside the cover of trees and bushes it stalked my hiking partner and I for quite a distance before finally leaving us alone in the darkness. I could hear the occasional branch break as it was stepped on, which helped me track it whenever I couldn't see it. I didn't have to draw my CM9 (hand was on it, though), but I sure was glad I had it just in case!! I kept my eyes and ears peeled for any sign that it was still with us, but it didn't stay with us for the rest of the return trip home.

The unfortunate thing about hiking at this time of the year is that it's sunset when I get off work, and full dark during my entire hike. Prime cat hunting time. No way around this. And they also roam my own neighborhood anyway, so no point in hiding indoors every day.

[pudge]

Starbug,

I'm sure you probably know this, but a cat that starts the kind of activity you describe, especially it's stalking of you and your walking partner, is NOT to be ignored. My strong advice to you is to cease the walks in any area where you do not have a wide field of view all around, and probably to forego your walks anytime near dusk or after dark. That cat must be taken as quickly as possible out of the gene pool. For whatever reason, it's chosen or been forced to prey on things outside the area it would normally be comfortable in. DO NOT hesitate to protect yourself from this animal, and do NOT allow it to get close if you can help it at all. If you have a decent opportunity to get this animal cleanly, take it, and make as sure as you can that you make a good shot. Be prepared to follow it up! The speed and the power of this kind of animal is something we just are unable to believe if we've never had regular experience with them.

good luck with your situation. I hope this animal is captured or killed very quickly! As with any situation involving a predator of any kind, your safest choiice is to avoid encounters if at all possible.

[OldLincoln]

Cats especially move so fast they can grab your sandwich out of your hand as you put it in your mouth. To quote an old favorite, they can turn off the light and be in bed before the room goes dark. Since this particular cat obviously has no fear of human surroundings, I think I would either avoid hikes until it is killed, or use your hiking buddy as bait and become a hunter on the hikes.

In a nearby state park a husband, wife and kid about 5 years old were walking on a paved path when a cat silently ran up behind them, grabbed the kid and ran into the brush before they could even scream. Help was nearby but it was the next day before they found the kid half eaten.

I worked in a retreat camp in the mountains and hiked about a mile up the mountain (no trail) to check the inlet for our water supply pipe in a creek. After doing my checks, as I walked back I saw where a large cat had prints in the snow over the ones I just made less than an hour before. The cat had trailed me and I'm guessing jumped off the trail when I was walking back. So much for head in the clouds nature loving when hiking in the wild.

I often post that wild things are not to messed with, and it's with good reason. When my son was beginning to dear hunt he told me about crawling into a hog burrow on his hands and knees but the hog wasn't home. He had no idea before I explained just how dangerous they can be. He is smart, just never stopped to consider it.

[Ikeo74]

Let us know how this turns out, if the cat is captured or killed. Also post what the fresh kills are. I live in a rural area where cougars have been seen a couple of years ago, although none recently. Take Pudge's advise and quit walking until the cat is gone or killed.

[Starbug]

Oh believe me, I watched that cat like a hawk! Never took my eyes off it, and made damn sure I knew where it was at all times. I don't take kindly to being hunted, it makes me want to turn the tables. I've always kept an open ear to the sounds and even the lack of sounds around us, and a watchful eye on the bushes and hillsides. That's how I was even aware of it coming up on us in the first place. Cats are scary as sh!t. Their speed and power is unimaginable. I don't want to find out about their strength and ferocity.

Unfortunately, I live in the woods and up in the mountains. My small town (where I also work) is also in these mountains. None of the hiking trails in these parts have wide open areas, it's heavily forested here. Hiking farther away just puts me into some other cougar's territory. There are also wolves in the area, I'm told. Dangerous predators are a fact of life here. If I drive towards the nearest bigger town where there are no cats, then there are also no trails to hike. Country gives way to big city.

Just walking out to my car poses a big risk at becoming a meal, as the cougars and bears do roam my neighborhood and have ransacked my yard, torn up my deck, torn up and flung my firewood pile all over the yard, and clawed up the siding of my house while chasing prey through it (garbage cans are always untouched). They come in broad daylight as well as night, and are regular occurrences in summertime. My neighborhood is highly forested, so there's good cover everywhere for cats and bears. My house butts up against forest, not other houses. The trail I was on yesterday is right behind my own house, and we were several miles up it when we ran into the cougar.... so the cat wasn't even that far from my house. Sometimes you get a tingling 6th sense feeling when your Spidy senses tell you you're being watched as you walk out to your car in the morning to go to work, or when you come home from work. You know there's a cat or other large predator watching you walk between house and car. I have seen eyes, once. Two nights ago something got attacked outside my bedroom wall in the back yard.

My hiking partner talked to some biologists that were in the area, and they confirmed that these mountains are crawling with a very large population of cougars, some of which have been transplanted here. So no matter where I go, there are cats. She was also told that where her house is there is a large male cat, which is why she has no deer or elk around her house.... he eats them.

The lack of fear of humans in my particular cat is not normal, and it's behavior is disturbing and dangerous. I have no qualms about killing it if the chance presents itself, heck I'm even toying with the idea of getting a hunting tag for it and looking for it myself if cougars are in season. Last night it came real close to being eligible for a self defense shooting.

I will let you guys know if it's ever caught or killed. It may never be stopped. Locals who've grown up here have told me that it's actually pretty common for cougars in this area to go and do what this one is doing. I was told of a guy with 4 big malamutes who all got taken out by a cougar one night. I really hope that was a stretched story....because damn.

Ikeo74, the fresh kills I've found have been deer. Smelled an old rotting kill on a highly populated trail, but it was somewhere in the bushes and out of sight. Putrid smell. When I passed by two hours later it was still there, so not an angry skunk.

[RRP]

Starbug,

Please don't let the CM9 give you a false sense of security. Mountain lions are very fast and agile, and when sprinting towards you, offer a small target to aim at.

How quickly can you draw your weapon, aim, and shoot with accuracy that your life depends on? Two seconds?

In two seconds, a cougar running 40 mph (http://www.visitthefarm.com/animalfacts/cougar.php) can travel 116 feet. I wouldn't want to match my reflexes against a hungry cougar.

Stay safe.

[muggsy]

Sounds like it would be a good time to take a day off and go cougar hunting.

[DooSPX]

"They can leap vertically over 16 feet, and horizontally more than 45 feet" :eek: That's insane! Please be careful!

[AIRret]

I'm not an expert, but what kind of ammo are you carrying on your hikes? It seems to me that if you are using hollow points they may not be effective. They may fill up with the cat's hide and not penetrate deep enough to do real damage. Maybe someone more versed in shooting game with a handgun could give you some suggestions.
Also, you might want to ask your hiking partner to also carry a gun.

[LorenzoB]

I'm not an expert, but what kind of ammo are you carrying on your hikes? It seems to me that if you are using hollow points they may not be effective. They may fill up with the cat's hide and not penetrate deep enough to do real damage. Maybe someone more versed in shooting game with a handgun could give you some suggestions.
Also, you might want to ask your hiking partner to also carry a gun.

+1 right there

[Yogi 117]

I'm not an expert, but what kind of ammo are you carrying on your hikes? It seems to me that if you are using hollow points they may not be effective. They may fill up with the cat's hide and not penetrate deep enough to do real damage. Maybe someone more versed in shooting game with a handgun could give you some suggestions.
Also, you might want to ask your hiking partner to also carry a gun.
I agree with this statement. When we took our horses into the woods for riding, we both always carried a .357 magnum loaded with 180 grain flat nose FMJ's, so that the round had a chance to penetrate and do some damage. Reaction time will be next to nothing, putting more emphasis on hitting a moving target. I'm not sure I would count on a 9mm JHP to stop a cougar/mountain lion. :eek:

[Bawanna]

I think a judge or the smith version is in order. A real shotgun would be best but I'm sure that's not PC.

[pudge]

Well, I started to mention carrying a shotgun, but I'd seriously recommend a larger gauge than a 410. For a big cat, I'd also want at least buckshot sized shot. Keep in mind that it takes several feet for that load of shot to begin to expand. Close shots require more careful aim than many might think with a shotgun.

My other suggestion (somewhat tongue in cheek) is to make certain that you can run faster than your walking partner!!!! :eek: Just joking, of course, since it's certainly possible you wouldn't have time to run anyway. This kind of problem is becoming more and more prevalent in many places around our country. Many cities are having a serious problem with coyotes and animals as well as some broad daylight situations with small children. Even so, the animal lovers scream bloody murder if anyone should suggest disposing of these loveable creatures in any fashion.

OldLincoln has given very good advice. Because the cats move so quickly, it's really hard to draw a bead on one, especially if you are OD'd on adrenalin. Thats why if I was out and about casually, it'd be with the shotgun of the short barreled defense weapon type with the handgun as a back up. With the prevailing climate of feelings about these loveable animals, I also suggest the three "S" rule for disposal: Shoot, Shovel, and Shutup!!!

[Bawanna]

Or carry extra rounds for the tree huggers? I am fond of shoot, shovel, shut up though. I'm writing that down for future reference.

[les strat]

If you continue your walks, I'd leave the CM9 at the house for a larger caliber, preferably, .357mag, .44mag, or a stout .45 auto load.

That cat is not exhibiting fear of humans as some do. It was stalking you. You need to be careful.

[OldLincoln]

Where I live it's several miles to open areas, but once there open carry is allowed and where there is open carry I would think a shotgun would be legal. Loaded with #4 Buck for pellet count you should be okay as long as you are looking.

Another thought is a strobe flashlight and flash the woods where you hear movement. I strobed an ambulance to direct it to the scene as the drive chewed me royally for blinding him 1/4 mile away. I got mine for $15 at Costco.

[Scoundrel]

You said you kept an eye on this cat at all times,and you also said there were times when you could not see it, only hear the occasional snap of a twig.

I'm not trying to call you out here, just trying to call attention to the fact that if this cat had felt that he had a tactical advantage, that twig snapping might have been the only clue you had that the cat was airborne and inbound.

A CM9 holds 8 rounds max, assuming you were using the 7rd magazine (which I personally would not trust to feed properly).

Animals give their entire being into the hunt. I could easily see the cat taking a hit or two and still be coming at you.

If I had a cougar actively stalking me like that, I'd either stay the hell out of the woods, or I'd go into the woods with kevlar clothing and an AR-15 loaded with hollowpoints and several spare magazines, with a 900-lumen flashlight mounted to the rail.

[Don K.]

Don't mess with the big cats...

on my archery deer hunt last year, while walking to my stand at pre dark:30, I found a fresh pile. So fresh it had steam coming off it...made me pucker up real quick, also made me happy that the state of AZ decided it was OK for my to carry while archery hunting. I would rather have my XDm 40 OWB than, just in case, than my CW9/IWB when it was not so legal to carry while bow hunting.

Funny thing is...black bears don't stir my nerves as the cats do. As long as you see the bear you can walk the other way....not so with the cats.

[jocko]

Hunted Mt. Lion backin the 70's in Utah for over 18 days. Not sure about the twig stuff, Cats are noctoral, they know the territory inside and out, They don't make mistakes, IMO u never see a cat either. If he wants u which I sincerely doubt to. he will get the first shot at u. Maybe if u have the gun in hand 24/7 umight have a chance to survive,but other wise IMO, ur now cat food.

I am certainly no authoity eiter but I did hunt with the country's greatr lion hnter Willis Butolph. He waqs a government lion hunter back in thedays and has forgot what most will every learn. Nautraly he used dogs to hunt with but without them he often said, you won't see the cat..

I would fear a Mt.Lion far ore than a bear, Bears are not stalkers. Lions are. They kill to eat, not for fun...

being I live in Indiana , we have no cats or bears but out west, I would certainly be very leary of bowhunting in cat country to. U walk in at dark and u walk out at dark. Both times prime cat hunting time..

PS. I have a Mt. Lion in the Pope and young record book back in the 70's..They are a atruly majestic animal in the wild IMO. Today my heart would not be in me to hunt and kill a Mt. Lion. Old age, I guess..and for me now appreciation for what nature has given us..

[Gliderguy]

At the very least, I would be wearing a tall-ish frame backpack that would protect my neck from a rearward attack that I probably wouldnt see coming. If he breaks your neck before you know he is there, game over. One might survive the claws for long enough to fight back and win, but that would be one mess that I wouldn't want to have to try and walk back to the truck after.

Sounds like you need another walking buddy or two. I think that would be somewhat discouraging for a single cat, just to tip the odds in your favor a bit more.

[yqtszhj]

Sounds like it would be a good time to take a day off and go cougar hunting.

I agree.

[GROTMAN]

Starbug..don't know if this is a good idea or not or if even legal, but have you or anyone else in your area thought about setting some traps ? Or maybe some poisoned meat to take out this critter ?

[jocko]

if there is a cat in the area, which IMO probably is not,,, a good set of dogs can run him up a tree . If the DNR is in on it, they have professional trappers who do this stuff for a livin. U more than likely ain't gonna trap any Mt. Lion. Poison would not be a good thing either, certainly would illegal

I have hunted most all my life from Bear to Mt. Lions and please excuse me if I say I just don't buy some of the stuff I am readin..

[Scoundrel]

Maybe hurricane Sandy will take out the cat and it'll all be good.

[GROTMAN]

if there is a cat in the area, which IMO probably is not,,, a good set of dogs can run him up a tree . If the DNR is in on it, they have professional trappers who do this stuff for a livin. U more than likely ain't gonna trap any Mt. Lion. Poison would not be a good thing either, certainly would illegal

I have hunted most all my life from Bear to Mt. Lions and please excuse me if I say I just don't buy some of the stuff I am readin..

Maybe this cat can do the job instead :D

http://www.anupojoy.com/Cat-trees_Bear2.jpg

[jocko]

I've been wrong before, but just giving my insights.no offense to anyone, believe what u may.

It sure would be nice to see the owners video of this cat killing something on one's porch.(excuse me, I am a doubting THOMAS on that to)_ Just sayin. If this was indeed true, no DNR would let this happen without actively going after this cat. Mt.Lions just do not operate that way, so if it is true then something is wrong with the cat that it just cannot hunt/kill on its own in the wild and it would be so easy for a good Mt. Lion hunter with a pack of dogs to catch this animal.

[Barth]

Starbug,

I'm sure you probably know this, but a cat that starts the kind of activity you describe, especially it's stalking of you and your walking partner, is NOT to be ignored. My strong advice to you is to cease the walks in any area where you do not have a wide field of view all around, and probably to forego your walks anytime near dusk or after dark. That cat must be taken as quickly as possible out of the gene pool. For whatever reason, it's chosen or been forced to prey on things outside the area it would normally be comfortable in. DO NOT hesitate to protect yourself from this animal, and do NOT allow it to get close if you can help it at all. If you have a decent opportunity to get this animal cleanly, take it, and make as sure as you can that you make a good shot. Be prepared to follow it up! The speed and the power of this kind of animal is something we just are unable to believe if we've never had regular experience with them.

good luck with your situation. I hope this animal is captured or killed very quickly! As with any situation involving a predator of any kind, your safest choiice is to avoid encounters if at all possible.

+1000
Walk on a treadmill, exercise at home or in a gym.
This cat means business and isn't afraid of people.
It's just a matter of time before something really bad happens.
People are no match for the speed and cunning of a big cat.
And your CM9 is right on the edge of useless against a wild animal IMHO.
Why take any chances with your life.
I would contact fish and game or whatever government agency takes care of this stuff before it gets out of hand.
And if this animal is not dealt with, it will get out of hand.

Be safe and respect the very real power and danger of nature.

[Starbug]

Quick answers to some of the questions/comments:


I have ball ammo in my gun for max penetration.
my hiking partner doesn't like guns so she carries Bear Mace (I have my doubts about mace's effectiveness, seems it would only piss a predator off).
our other hiking partners wussed out as soon as summer dryness changed to fall/winter rains, but on the rare occasion that we can convince them to go with us, they carry guns too.
I know my CM9 isn't the best gun for the job, but it's better than nothing, and all my pistols are 9mm. I'll look into those Desert Eagles, since you can get them in .357mag and .44mag. They are insanely expensive and out of my price range, so I'll have to try to find a used one. But the whole point of using a concealable gun was so I wouldn't freak out the gun fearing population that comes out here from Seattle and Bellevue. They are vocal, terribly afraid of guns (why else would you have a gun unless you intended to go on a killing spree? Their logic is flawed), and they are also convinced that when a wild animal attacks you the best thing to do is to run away and not kill it because killing animals is mean. They don't realize you can't outrun an animal that can run 35mph, and running away also confirms that you're food. You'd be amazed at how many come out here to hike alone. Morons.
When you live up in the Cascade Mountain range, wildlife is up in your face and you can't avoid it. It's like Alaska. Herds of elk do walk right through town on a regular basis (like Alaska's moose), bears mess with your garbage or check out your open garage, you find coyotes on the trails or in your neighborhood (they always run away) and they eat your pet cat, when it snows you can see bobcat tracks following bunny tracks through your yard. I've had deer peek into my living room window, and seen elk sleeping holes in my yard where the grass was crushed all night. Out here is nothing like the cities and towns where things have been highly developed and people have pushed animals out of the area through sheer numbers and deforestation. It's a lot more wild out here. I grew up in a city, and moved out here 4 years ago. I have never before seen so many wild animals.
I have no idea if any wildlife agency is out looking for this particular cat. Those biologists that my hiking partner talked to said some of the cats had been relocated to these parts, so presumably some have tracking collars. But if they are bringing cats here, then we may be something of a dumping ground for problem cats from other areas, in addition to the already large population that was here to begin with. I don't know what methods of capturing/killing a cougar are legal here.
It's highly possible that this cat is sick. If it's sick and unable to catch it's natural food source, then that would explain why it is eating dogs. The illness may rid us of this cat soon enough. I too would like to see the video of the dog being drug away by the cougar. It might show a skinny starved cat, or an injured cat limping on 3 legs. Who knows. I don't know who caught the video, so can't track him/her down and request a look. I can only vouch for my neighbor's dog, who screamed at 3am, and was then gone. The body was found not too far away, stashed in the bushes, jugular torn out and quiet dead.

[DKD]

Dude ....you need a bigger gun....something in the neighborhood of .44-.45 caliber in a handgun.

[OldLincoln]

I thought cats are pretty tender skinned, but there I go thinking again.

[Bawanna]

I thought cats are pretty tender skinned, but there I go thinking again.

They are indeed tender skinned but they are wicked slippery and quick moving critters.

Probably as good a chance with a 9 and anything. A 44 etc, maybe the concussion would help spook it but a hit ain't likely if its inbound for an attack.

Not big on the 410 Judge but I still think next to a short barrel 12 ga it's the next best thing. I suspect any gunshot might have a deterrent effect maybe too.

As quick and quiet as they are I suspect most won't even see it coming.

Its life, you can get killed crossing the street or eaten by a Cougar on a mtn trail. I'll take the mtn trail everytime.

PS: As for the PC folks from Seattle and Bellevue who might be offended by a shotgun, I'd carry it anyhow just to piss them off. I can be such a rabble rouser sometimes.

[Alfonse]

PS: As for the PC folks from Seattle and Bellevue who might be offended by a shotgun, I'd carry it anyhow just to piss them off. I can be such a rabble rouser sometimes.

I certainly agree with that. It's all about the entertainment!

[Tinman507]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWfbxQp0nRZ4tclT7mzaMvjq91R1fEX Xh9X4qcbbqTWrYn9EcQf6IEpLLLVQ

[Planedude]

Dang Bwanna, just do the "Mares leg" in at least 44mag. At the last gun show, I saw alot of cool holsters/scabbards that would look right smart lashed to the ol chair...

[pudge]

They are ... it doesn't take a big gun to kill one. But them suckers are mighty hard to hit if they are moving, especially toward you and attacking at close range!!!!:eek::eek:

You have to hit one to stop him, whether it's attacking or running away, and that's mighty hard to do with any kind of gun, especially a handgun. A .22LR will do nicely if the cat's up a tree and being relatively still. Moving like a cat can do is another thing altogether!

[yqtszhj]

Starbug, enjoy your hikes and along with ur pistol get you a big knife too. I know what you mean about the critters being everywhere too. All hikers take that chance. We went hiking around the black canyon in Colorado and saw a ranger heavily armed and with body armor. I asked him what it was all about and along with 2 legged critters there are 4 legged ones too. Didn't think to ask him if the musky smell we noticed when hiking was from a cat or something like that.

[Starbug]

They are indeed tender skinned but they are wicked slippery and quick moving critters.

Probably as good a chance with a 9 and anything. A 44 etc, maybe the concussion would help spook it but a hit ain't likely if its inbound for an attack.

Not big on the 410 Judge but I still think next to a short barrel 12 ga it's the next best thing. I suspect any gunshot might have a deterrent effect maybe too.

As quick and quiet as they are I suspect most won't even see it coming.

Its life, you can get killed crossing the street or eaten by a Cougar on a mtn trail. I'll take the mtn trail everytime.

PS: As for the PC folks from Seattle and Bellevue who might be offended by a shotgun, I'd carry it anyhow just to piss them off. I can be such a rabble rouser sometimes.


LOL, I do admit to liking the idea of carrying a shotgun just to piss them off. A part of me would enjoy it. The other part would be annoyed at being stopped constantly to explain myself, and possibly also to explain myself to a cop/ranger.

I should also point out that all the kids waiting for the school bus at 6:30am are at risk of being taken by a cougar. It's dark, and there would be 1-4 kids per stop. Alone, unarmed, and prone to running if a predator came up, which would make them look even more like food. So like Bawanna said, it's the risk people take when they choose to live far outside the big cities and out in the wilderness. You can be killed by a car, another person, or an animal; that's life. Walking home from night classes at a college in a big city (common occurrence in Seattle) puts you at risk of being mugged, killed, raped, or beaten by another person. And yet people don't stop taking night classes and walking home. Been a rash of such crimes lately in Seattle. Life is full of risks, no matter what you do or where you go.

[Starbug]

Starbug, enjoy your hikes and along with ur pistol get you a big knife too. I know what you mean about the critters being everywhere too. All hikers take that chance. We went hiking around the black canyon in Colorado and saw a ranger heavily armed and with body armor. I asked him what it was all about and along with 2 legged critters there are 4 legged ones too. Didn't think to ask him if the musky smell we noticed when hiking was from a cat or something like that.

Being heavily armed and wearing body armor is a good idea when you spend 8+ hours out in the woods, as rangers do. Can't say I blame him!

I bet the musky smell you smelled out there was cougar spray from a cat marking it's territory. Although I guess it could have been anything, really. I'm no expert.

Actually, a big knife is next on my list of things to get. My hiking partner and I were talking today about going up to Cabelas and picking up a big knife. We've always wanted to check out a Cabelas anyway, and this just gives us an excuse to go there. It's just really, really far away....

[TucsonMTB]

Life is full of risks, no matter what you do or where you go.
Yep! Couldn't agree more. If we built airplanes strong enough to be certain they would survive a crash, they would never get off the ground.

I do a lot of bicycling, mostly on lightly traveled roads. But, they are narrow so it is necessary to trust that motorists will not destroy me and my ultra-light carbon fiber steed with their two ton missiles. Is it safe? Probably not. But, a wise lady once told me, "Life is full of risks, no matter what you do or where you go." That would be you. :)

Life is good!

[Gliderguy]

I J
just caught on that this was western Washington we are talking about. I never saw so much wildlife as when I lived in Snoqualmie. A herd of 60 or so elk was regularly seen in the open field right next to the high school, and my wife and I both saw a smallish black bear sow with one cub on the walking trail that goes through the woods and ********** thickets right around our subdivision. I think a shotgun is the ideal weapon if you were actively stalking the cat, otherwise a good revolver in 357 that cannot be pushed out of battery if it becomes a direct contact event would be my realistic choice. Normal PD ammo should work on a 200 pound cat just as good as a 200 pound homicidal meth-head. Medium bears or other animals that out weigh you by double or more would dictate a heavier, deeper penetrating round. At concealable handgun energy levels expansion becomes secondary for those cases.

Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2

[Gliderguy]

B l a c k b e r r y is a filtered word on this forum?

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[Tinman507]

Yes, we're very pro Android and iPhone here.

[GROTMAN]

Bet this process would speed up if she just turned around...



http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/Cybenator/Misc/AFLAX.jpg

[jocko]

oh now that is a good one grotman.

[Starbug]

I just caught on that this was western Washington we are talking about. I never saw so much wildlife as when I lived in Snoqualmie. A herd of 60 or so elk was regularly seen in the open field right next to the high school, and my wife and I both saw a smallish black bear sow with one cub on the walking trail that goes through the woods and ********** thickets right around our subdivision. I think a shotgun is the ideal weapon if you were actively stalking the cat, otherwise a good revolver in 357 that cannot be pushed out of battery if it becomes a direct contact event would be my realistic choice. Normal PD ammo should work on a 200 pound cat just as good as a 200 pound homicidal meth-head. Medium bears or other animals that out weigh you by double or more would dictate a heavier, deeper penetrating round. At concealable handgun energy levels expansion becomes secondary for those cases.

Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2

Yup, talking about Western WA. Oh yes, I have seen those very elk numerous times. Sometimes you can see hundreds of them in that huge field not far from the Milk Barn (towards North Bend). Back when I commuted to Redmond, I'd take highway 202 through Snoqualmie since freeway-to-Issaquah-to-Redmond traffic would be ass. I think I saw your sow black bear one morning, but I didn't see a cub since I had to pay attention to the road, so only got a quick glance at her. She was in a large field, near the edge of the woods.

On my way to work the other morning a huge herd of elk walked right across the road, stopping traffic. It's too bad I didn't have enough time to snap some pics to post here; they were a few streets ahead of the road I needed to turn down for work. If I'd had a few extra minutes, I could have gone down to where they were, snapped pics, waited until the last elk had finally crossed, and then taken a detour back to where I needed to be. I keep telling my boss that he should give out hunting tags for his yard since he keeps finding herds there every morning, and one of the bulls has a HUGE rack, and the body is extremely huge and muscular as well. It sounds like a perfect trophy animal. For obvious reasons, he's not going to declare open season in his yard (house w/kids and pets), but we do joke with him that it would be a great way to make a few extra $$.



Bet this process would speed up if she just turned around...



http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t219/Cybenator/Misc/AFLAX.jpg

Since that is a lioness behind this woman: Quoting Jurassic Park 1, when the game hunter is stalking the Velociraptors, and he suddenly realizes that the 'raptor is in the bushes right next to him, and they are face to face.... "Clever girl...." (and then it attacks him)

[Starbug]

Yep! Couldn't agree more. If we built airplanes strong enough to be certain they would survive a crash, they would never get off the ground.

I do a lot of bicycling, mostly on lightly traveled roads. But, they are narrow so it is necessary to trust that motorists will not destroy me and my ultra-light carbon fiber steed with their two ton missiles. Is it safe? Probably not. But, a wise lady once told me, "Life is full of risks, no matter what you do or where you go." That would be you. :)

Life is good!

Awww, now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :)

Crash-proof planes would require anti-gravity thrusters to achieve flight/levitation. Perhaps in another 100 years we can do this.... (I'm a scifi nerd...)

[rjt123]

(I'm a scifi nerd...)

Say that loud and proud! :D

[Gliderguy]

Starbug, Yep, I know where the Milk barn is. We rented a storage unit in North Bend. My Brother in Law works for Microsoft, and lives in Redmond. I drove 202 regularly when we went to visit. I only regret not getting out of town and into the woods more often when I was living there.

Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2

[Starbug]

Say that loud and proud! :D

Lol, don't mind if I do. I'M A SCIFI NERD!!! And sooo proud of it. :D:D:D:D

[Starbug]

Starbug, Yep, I know where the Milk barn is. We rented a storage unit in North Bend. My Brother in Law works for Microsoft, and lives in Redmond. I drove 202 regularly when we went to visit. I only regret not getting out of town and into the woods more often when I was living there.

Sent from my BNTV250 using Tapatalk 2

I gotta say, 202 sure made for a beautiful and scenic commute. But I don't miss the time spent commuting. Made for one hell of a long day, and my work hours were already long. So glad my new commute is much shorter.

Yeah that's a bummer that you didn't get out into the woods more. If you ever visit again, take your camera. Right now you have the huge moss-covered evergreens mixed in with bright safety-orange and safety-yellow maples that have bright lime green moss hanging off the branches and trunks in stunning visual contrast of colors and textures, and surrounded by silver fog. It's unreal and prehistoric-looking, like something out of a fantasy movie. Words don't do it justice. And then there are the naughty-looking and well endowed trees we've found (hung like bull!), that leave us giggling like immature kids for the next several days..... whatever visual your imagination just cooked up is probably correct. Don't forget to add moss. Lol. :p:D

Microsoft is a good place to work for, from what I hear. And judging by the arsenal and amount of ammo a friend of mine has, and how much money he drops every time he visits the local gun shops, the pay is excellent. I don't envy his commute to Redmond from here, however..... already did that, don't ever wanna do it again. Your brother in law is wise to live in Redmond since he works there.

[Bawanna]

I like fantasy movies.

[jocko]

Then fantasy this: Monica Lewinsky knocks on my door and I answer in my boxer shorts and the wife is out of town for a week, and no I don't smoke but I was chewing on a Macanudo at the time... Just sayin

[Tinman507]

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/fruits/images/large/macadamia.jpg
OR
http://www.casasfumando.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/macanudo_1968_1.jpg

[jocko]

thankstinman, I wasnot sure how to spell it..


REMEMBER AMERICA

[Bawanna]

thankstinman, I wasnot sure how to spell it..

Crap I just spit Frito's and water all over my work area. Mr. Dictionary was stumped?:eek:

[jocko]

kINDALIKE WHAT mONICA DID--HUH??

[Tinman507]

Either one is acceptable.
the nuts are delicious
the cigars are awesome. but best with a single malt scotch.
But I digress. I no longer can afford a single malt.

I guess to quote a venerable member here (muggsy) and a true American Patriot General Anthony McAuliffe

http://www.thedropzone.org/europe/bulge/nuts.JPG

NUTS!

[AC7880]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ai64LbTy-aE/UIimH1PQNNI/AAAAAAAAEW8/P5wQGfkZt2Q/s400/IMG_2363.JPG



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bElb5aibMpw/UIil633MkII/AAAAAAAAEWs/PYH_Lpggfd0/s400/IMG_2358.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CqMPHRwHm7E/UIimzo_EHSI/AAAAAAAAEXY/E1xS0ey5PZ4/s400/IMG_2366.JPG


I just registered here but have been lurking a while. I am retired USAF and a full time RV traveler, and own a Kahr K9 circa 1999.

We are hosting a wildlife preserve near Patagonia AZ this winter, and also hosted here last winter. Last winter in Nov we saw a Mtn Lion on a wildlife camera, and this year I have seen one in person twice in two days a couple of weeks ago. I got some great pics the first time, from about 30 yards away, using a zoom camera to 40X.

I was not carrying the K9 at the time, but did for one week afterwards as we looked for the cat. We also closed the preserve to the public for one week after the 2nd sighting, which was 20 yards from our motorhome. The cat had stalked 2 deer which is why it was so close, and probably took a fawn as they both hit the woods about 80 yards out.

I grew up in Wenatchee WA and we called these cats Cougars there, but Mountain Lion is the correct term here in AZ. We have a year round creek through the preserve, and lots of deer and javelina for the Mtn Lion to consume - so less dangerous to humans than some other areas in the country.

I have the pics and more details of the 2 encounters on our travel blog at: http://2toomanycats.blogspot.com/ the Oct 27 and Oct 24 posts.

Dan

[Starbug]

Beautiful pics, and I'm glad nobody got hurt with that cat hanging around you guys.

My neighborhood newsflyer arrived today. In it was some repeated warnings to not feed the bears (someone's been doing that??), and that if anyone comes into contact with the cougar DON'T RUN, don't walk away, keep your eyes on it. They said to wave your arms around, yell at it, and throw rocks at it. They actually repeated the "don't run" part several times to make the point.

[AC7880]

Yep, we posted a flier by the entrance to the preserve (visitors center) with instructions if anyone else encounters a Mtn Lion. Don't run, maintain full eye contact, look "big" by rasing arms or opening jackets, dont turn your back, yell loudly and throw items like rocks sticks etc if approached, and fight back if attacked.

There are deer everywhere here with many fawns, and javelina with babies. The cats are not desperate here, so much less likely to attack humans. This cat knew we there but totally ignored us at first, then looked directly at us but with no interest or concern.

When people come to the preserve with kids I do a thorough briefing and warning to the parents before I let them walk. We have 312 acres on the main chunk of land here, with 2.25 miles of main trails. As a host here I also go off trail, and pack the Kahr K9 when I do that. There are 3 other parcels of conservancy land in the local area as well.

In a month or so Coatamundi will come through, bob cats and coyotes are common. Saw a fox on wild life cam last week, and a black bear on wildlife cam 5 Oct.

For now no new signs of the cat, no new tracks even after a rain, and not on our 2 wildlife motion sensor activated cameras.

We plan to stay and volunteer here until 15 Feb this year, then move onward.

Dan
Retired USAF
Kahr K9

Beautiful pics, and I'm glad nobody got hurt with that cat hanging around you guys.

My neighborhood newsflyer arrived today. In it was some repeated warnings to not feed the bears (someone's been doing that??), and that if anyone comes into contact with the cougar DON'T RUN, don't walk away, keep your eyes on it. They said to wave your arms around, yell at it, and throw rocks at it. They actually repeated the "don't run" part several times to make the point.

[7shot]

Starbug,

I'm sure you probably know this, but a cat that starts the kind of activity you describe, especially it's stalking of you and your walking partner, is NOT to be ignored. My strong advice to you is to cease the walks in any area where you do not have a wide field of view all around, and probably to forego your walks anytime near dusk or after dark. That cat must be taken as quickly as possible out of the gene pool. For whatever reason, it's chosen or been forced to prey on things outside the area it would normally be comfortable in. DO NOT hesitate to protect yourself from this animal, and do NOT allow it to get close if you can help it at all. If you have a decent opportunity to get this animal cleanly, take it, and make as sure as you can that you make a good shot. Be prepared to follow it up! The speed and the power of this kind of animal is something we just are unable to believe if we've never had regular experience with them.

good luck with your situation. I hope this animal is captured or killed very quickly! As with any situation involving a predator of any kind, your safest choiice is to avoid encounters if at all possible.

ditto on this post! better yet, get some night vision specs and your AR and pretend it's johnny jihad. :33:

[AC7880]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s480x480/198262_557491600933051_1769205678_n.jpgI


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/66026_557490744266470_194559467_n.jpg




I walked up on a Mountain Lion today, just across the creek from me, approx 150 yards from the motorhome on the wildlife preserve we are hosting this winter. I think it is the same lion I posted pics of just above that I took October 24, but some of the facial markings are different. Perhaps it was dried blood spatter last time and he cleaned it. I shot lot's of pics and some short videos, posted them to youtube. The you tube videos came out fuzzy, even though on camera and computer from the sd card it is clear. I was zoomed in about 30 - 40 X so it is shaky footage. The one labeled Mtn_lion is the one to view first.

The cat isn't stalking us. It might think I am stalking it - second time I have walked up on it. If there were'nt so many deer and fawns around I'd be more concerned. It looks well fed.


5 videos of the lion taken today, plus other critters from videos I took last year:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AC7880

I was carrying my Kahr K9 with corbon 115 grain +p hollow points. I moved the pistol and holster from the 4 oclock into my vest pocket before I shot the pics - just in case. This lion is not agressive, but has no fear either. My plan was to fire one shot in the ground as a noise maker if it moved towards me, leaving 7 reserve (1 in the pipe, 7 in the magazine).

This makes my 3rd sighting in 25 days.

[Bawanna]

How very cool for you. So many never get to see one in the wild and your living with them. Don't hurt the kitty, less of course he deserves hurting that is.

[AC7880]

No worries. This is a Nature Conservancy Preserve. It would take some serious threat to engage any critter here with a firearm, and Fish and Wildlife would get involved after the fact as well. Not possible to shoot shovel and shut up here.

This cat has more to fear if the conservancy decides to call Fish and Game. F & G tends to err on the side of caution these days.

Dan


How very cool for you. So many never get to see one in the wild and your living with them. Don't hurt the kitty, less of course he deserves hurting that is.

[Barth]

I've already posted my thoughts and hate repeating myself.
But this issue is an important one.

Even if you are armed.
A big cat is faster, stronger and can see better than you.
And not by a small margin.
When that animal gets to pick the time and place too?
You lose.
http://www.designknock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Gallery-Of-Photos-Inspired-By-Mac-OS-X-Mountain-Lion-19.jpg

[jocko]

u are so so right. They are all muscle, they are smart, they are simpoley beautful to. I hunted them in Utah years back for damn near 3 weeks. Course with game camerras today maybe some of these photos we see ar ein the wild to. Mt. Lions do not operate like deer, they dn't follow the same path etc. That is why for me it is so odd to hear of people saying ,,, "Oh I see um all the time". They are basicaly a noctornal hunter.

about 5 years back a local (25 miles) away a BIG CAT shelter with over 250 tigers and lions and a few Mt. Lions. anyways, one Mt. Lion excaped their complex. They knew that very day and with dogs and literaly dozens of people, THEY EVER SEEN THE CAT AGAIN.

I wish I could show the photo of the Mt. Lion that I shot with a Bow in Utah some years back but today at my age, I often think about it and I couldnot shoot one today, as IMO they are such a majestic animal and basically aqll they wantis to be left alone. They have no problems killing deer and elk with ease so I findit extremely strange that one would colmeup on someone proch and kill their dog, but I guess it can happen

When any wild animal looses its ability to kill and eat for itself, then its habits will indeed change, and then they need to be put down. I have no doubt if a cats really is stalking a human, u are more than likely history.

www.city-data.com/articles/Exotic-Feline-Rescue-Center-Center-p

[yqtszhj]

They will probably never do anything, but if they do, they go for the neck/throat. And after the first bite, no need for the pistola, because your dead. Those cats are SMART.

I'd still like to see one.

They say on Yellowstone that more people are killed by elk and buffalo than bears but I'd like to see the buffalo too. Already saw elk in the wild in Colorado and it's beautiful. They have introduced elk now to the great smoky mountain national park too. We saw one the last time we were that way on the NC side of the park.

[AC7880]

The Preserve we are hosting is pretty unique.

The parcel we are on is 312 acres, located in southern AZ 20 miles from Nogales AZ and the Mexican border. The surrounding area is rolling hills and mountains. The preserve has a year round creek that comes up out of the dry gravel ceek bed/bedrock at the head of the preserve and dumps into Patagonia lake about 6 miles south of here. The water attracts a great deal of wildlife of all kinds down out of the mountains and hills. The hills have been real dry since the summer monsoons ended. There are large sections of terrain with few human inhabitants.

We are the only people living inside the preserve fenceline during the time we volunteer here - 4 months last year, and again for 4 months this year. One of the Conservancy managers lives across the dirt road outside the preserve. He spends only about 4-5 hours a week on preserve while we are here to cover the visitors center and walk the trails. He covers a wide area of lands in AZ.

Our travel blogs older posts from last winter Nov-Mar has pics my wife and I shot of Coatimundi, Javelina, birds of all types, and also wildlife camera shots of bobcats, coyotes, fox, skunks, and more. In the one month we have been back, wildlife camera pics include one black bear, and one fox.

Last year the wildlife cameras also captured shots (at night only) of illegals, some just immigrants, and some drug smugglers. There are sections off the trails here where last year I found the empty burlap "backpacks" with ropes for straps used to haul the drugs in - they offload the "packs" across the fenceline to vehicles on a dirt road, then hide the empty packs in the brush and walk back into Mexico. 2 wildlife cameras were stolen in the last 12 months, probably by illegals. Border patrol drives down the dirt road bordering the preserve all the time. They also use ATVs and horses in the surrounding hills.

The preserve we are hosting is one of 3 parcels of land with 5 miles operated by the Nature Conservancy, a world wide non profit. This is the only local parcel that charges a use fee, and is gated.

The Conservancy managers make the call on when to close the preserve to visitors due to the lion. After the 2 sightings in late Oct they shut it down for one week. After our sighting Nov 16, we are shut down again until at least next Saturday. The lion was within 200 yards of the visitors center.

It's a tough call for the conservancy to make - with the water source here the lion(s) probably come through here almost every month, but are rarely sighted due to the the heavy vegetation on most of the preserve and surrounding areas - including the working cattle/dude ranch on our south border.

We have been lucky to see the cat with 30 yards seperation thus far. Our 2 - 2.5 miles of trail system has many heavily wooded areas with blind curves in the trail. I have rounded curves to be almost right on top of Javelina and deer. Imagine a visitor rounding one of those curves to meet a Mtn Lion coming the other way. I walk at least 6 times per week on these trails, and as a volunteer host I also go off trail checking game trails and the fenceline. I also have walked in the creek end to end on the preserve. My wife walks 5-6 times per week, and stays only on the trails. Visitors are requested to stay on trails.

So the problem is what to do about the wildlife and the human visitors. There is a risk 12 months of the year here. The best guess of paid conservancy employees is that as long as the game is so thick here with deer, fawns, javelina, javelina babies, the Mtn Lions have no interest in humans as a food source. Still a hazard if they feel threatened or are startled though.

Conservancy websites:
http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/arizona/index.htm

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=nf#!/NatureConservancyArizona?fref=ts (with one of my lion pics)

Our sites:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AC7880 (http://www.youtube.com/user/AC7880) Note the lion videos I shot Nov 16 are moving with my breathing - wildlife cams are stable not moving. I was shooting 30 - 40X with a Cannon SX40 zoom still camera with video capability. I am "real glad" I had my camera along - otherwise I might not be believed as to these encounters.

Dan
http://2toomanycats.blogspot.com/ (the blog refers to house cats - toomanycats)

[TucsonMTB]

Nice pictures! I will have to check out your video soon, maybe after my bicycle ride this afternoon.

The area where you are hanging out is a nice location for bird watching. My wife and I birded there several times before Denis Wright, who was a big supporter of the Nature Conservancy, left the area.

Last year, several mountain lion sightings were reported on the north edge of Oro Valley in the "Rail X Trail" area. That's an area not far from where we live and where we often go mountain biking. People tend to get pretty excited about those sightings. But, no human has ever been attacked near us.

[Alfonse]

You never know, the kitty might like chasing the dot.

[AC7880]

Great Idea!!


You never know, the kitty might like chasing the dot.

[Bawanna]

I agree, who wants to try it first and report back.

[Alfonse]

I agree, who wants to try it first and report back.

With luck, they can report back.

[TucsonMTB]

I wanna see the video. I promise it will be a YouTube sensation! :D

[Bawanna]

Aw heck, I'll go first. I got a CT laser and an attitude.

Now where do I go to find one of these kitty's?

Wait, I need a camera man. Any volunteers, preferably someone who can't walk, doesn't have a chair and moves really really slow?

Maybe we should tie ourselves to a tree so we don't yield to our natural instinct and run like heck when the kitty show itself?

[Alfonse]

I think I can operate a video from inside my truck. :)

[AC7880]

Anybody have a zoo with a Mtn Lion (Cougar)? You could try a laser pointer to see if big cats like the dot.

I have been walking the trails every day, and went off trail through the brush with a Conservancy paid employee today - no fresh signs/tracks where we looked, and no pics on the 2 wildlife cams except deer and javelina.

We are closed to the public until Saturday. Will reopen if no new signs on the trails or near visitors center. My wife made some additional warning signs about Mtn lions and actions to take/not take if visitors see a Lion while here.

Border patrol chased 6 illegal drug smugglers a mile down the dirt road from us on Saturday. Didn't catch the illegals, but recovered 6 big bundled packs of marijuana.

Dan

[AC7880]

I'd go with you as camera man if you promise to run. I'll just stand still while you outrun the cat. I have experience times 2 with shooting pics and video of the big cat. I just need some bait, like a running person. My first aid skills are no longer up to par though - haven't trained for a decade or two.

Dan


Aw heck, I'll go first. I got a CT laser and an attitude.

Now where do I go to find one of these kitty's?

Wait, I need a camera man. Any volunteers, preferably someone who can't walk, doesn't have a chair and moves really really slow?

Maybe we should tie ourselves to a tree so we don't yield to our natural instinct and run like heck when the kitty show itself?

[Bawanna]

I'd go with you as camera man if you promise to run. I'll just stand still while you outrun the cat. I have experience times 2 with shooting pics and video of the big cat. I just need some bait, like a running person. My first aid skills are no longer up to par though - haven't trained for a decade or two.

Dan

Well you certainly sound qualified even with rusty first aid skills, doubtful a trained ER staff would do much good. I can't run but I can roll pretty quick if the path is hard packed. The word bait doesn't sound very appealing but if its for the good of science and all I'm your man.

[TucsonMTB]

Anybody have a zoo with a Mtn Lion (Cougar)? You could try a laser pointer to see if big cats like the dot.
http://desertmuseum.org/images/60th_header_2.jpg

The relatively nearby Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum has several. Link: http://desertmuseum.org/

Although we have membership passes, we don't get over there nearly as often as we should. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Never mind! I see that Bawanna has volunteered while I was typing . . . slowly. ;)

[AC7880]

We visited the Desert Museum last year, but caught it on a day with bus loads of school kids and tourists. Cool place, just too many people the day we were there.

If you get a chance come on down to Patagonia to the Preserve. We are about 1 hour south of Tucson on hiway 82. If you PM me in advance I can clear the time to walk the trail system with you if you like. Preserve is closed on Mon and Tues, open other days 7:30 to 4:00.

As our personal guests no entrance fee would be required (normally $5 ea person good for one week, or $35 annual pass good for 2 people, 3 preserves). Our sister preserve is Ramsey Canyon south of Sierra Vista.

Dan


http://desertmuseum.org/images/60th_header_2.jpg

The relatively nearby Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum has several. Link: http://desertmuseum.org/

Although we have membership passes, we don't get over there nearly as often as we should. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Never mind! I see that Bawanna has volunteered while I was typing . . . slowly. ;)

[TucsonMTB]

That's very generous of you, Dan!

Given her birding enthusiasm, Sheryl may already have purchased a pass. I will mention your gracious invitation to her. It may not happen very soon. And, yes, I do recall that you are only planning to hang around for a limited time.

Besides Bawanna, our assistant moderator, Greg, is over in Yuma. I don't know if he ever gets to the Tucson area. But, if he does, I'm sure he will give you a shout. :)

[Bawanna]

http://desertmuseum.org/images/60th_header_2.jpg

The relatively nearby Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum has several. Link: http://desertmuseum.org/

Although we have membership passes, we don't get over there nearly as often as we should. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Never mind! I see that Bawanna has volunteered while I was typing . . . slowly. ;)

No, no, I'm just an outsider, I'd probably die of heat prostration down there in the dry AZ desert. You go right ahead and sign yourself up. I'm behind ya all the way, not a Dietrich behind ya ya understand.

[LorenzoB]

..... Maybe we should tie ourselves to a tree so we don't yield to our natural instinct and run like heck when the kitty show itself?

rofl!!

[Alfonse]

You better test a few kitties. Not every house cat likes to play with a dot, it might be a game of percentages.

[Bawanna]

Mine loves it. She's always there waiting when I disarm at night. The sound of a thumb break on the ankle rig pops her eyes right out of her head.

I only got one so I guess it isn't a conclusive test. I know it doesn't do a thing for the Beagle, not even a twitch.

[MW surveyor]

Mine loves it. She's always there waiting when I disarm at night. The sound of a thumb break on the ankle rig pops her eyes right out of her head.

I only got one so I guess it isn't a conclusive test. I know it doesn't do a thing for the Beagle, not even a twitch.


Proof that the dog is smarter than the cat.

[Alfonse]

Proof that the dog is smarter than the cat.

I don't have a cat, but my dog quits eating and only searches for a red dot for days if I let her see a red dot. So, I dunno!

I figured Starbug might see that cat again and test it out. Then, thinking some more, I suppose it could get the big kitty all worked up, and that might not be good. When I was younger, I didn't think that far ahead.

[AC7880]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/63158_574759665872478_899607481_n.jpg





All joking aside, we are still taking the presence of the Lion here on the Preserve seriously, and are closed to the public until at least Saturday. We took the day off from walking the trail system today to do our holiday shopping. I'll be out tomorrow looking for sign, tracks, and scat. My adult son is driving down from Albuquerque to stay for a few days and we'll be scoping the preserve out fairly seriously before reopening to the public.

[Bawanna]

Did he just say all joking aside?:eek: What do we do now?

[pudge]

Probably just spectate! Not much else to say ...

[Tinman507]

http://ano.lolcathost.org/thumbs//costanzaPopcorn.gif

[Starbug]

I like the idea of seeing if cougars will chase laser dots, lol. I've also wondered if they'd go after a catnip toy if thrown one. Based upon that idea, I came up with the Catnip Grenade: take a hamster ball, pack it with catnip, store in ziplock baggie until needed. When needed, remove from baggie and throw. Catnip grenade will roll towards the cougar, who will smell the catnip wafting from it and then go after it instead of you. Lol. Who wants to test this idea?

[Bawanna]

I nominate AC7880. He's got the kitty's around so it should be convenient. I'd of course volunteer myself but it could be years before I seen one close enough to toss the bait. (and pray alot).

Course if I could spend the winter down in AZ with AC that might put things in a lot better perspective. It's a might damp and cold round these parts now.

[Starbug]

Excellent. Now that AC7880 has been nominated without his knowledge, I'm going to ship him a bunch of Catnip Grenades and a GoPro camera so that we can get video of him testing out my idea. Just in case he doesn't actually survive the experiment, we'll see how/why it failed in the video. Bawanna, you wait in the safety of the truck, and when the situation has become safe again, you go retrieve the GoPro camera and we'll review the findings when you get back to WA.

Lol...

[Bawanna]

Now that's a sound plan right there by golly.

Lets see, AZ, thats kind of south and east right. If the locals start speaking spanish I know I went too far.

Oh wait, that probably doesn't work anymore either.

[Alfonse]

That is a good plan! He could also have a laser pointer to use if the catnip didn't distract the kitty.

[Bawanna]

Excellent thought. We shall officially refer to that as Plan B.

I also thought of a safety system where by we utilize reverse bungee jumping.

We'll camo a big crane with a bungee cord and attach AC to the ground in some fashion and then stretch the bungee out with the crane while he waits for the kitty. If the kitty don't go for the catnip or the laser, he throws the lever and safely launches himself well out of reach.

I offer this free of charge as a public safety issue.

We shall refer to it as Plan C.

[pudge]

I can say with some authority that if I find myself close enough to one of these large kitties to throw it a hamster ball filled with catnip, that kitty will definitely smell something :puke:! Whether or not the kitty will be attracted by the smell or repulsed by it remains to be seen. Hopefully, it will be repulsed, but then I've seen 'em eating on several summer days old deer or livestock carcasses and they don't seem to be the least bit concerned by the smell. An open gut in the sunshine for a few days smells at least as bad as fresh gut contents, so I'm thinking that what the kitty smells coming from me will not likely cause it to leave!!!!

[Bawanna]

Man up Pudge! It's just a freaking house cat on steroids. They are as scared of you as you are of them. Don't bother them, they won't bother you. They say the same thing about bee's too but I know thats pure BS. They sting for pleasure.

[GROTMAN]

Yeh..I'm just as afraid of you..come visit..we can talk..work things out :lie:

http://blogs.995themountain.com/files/2009/05/winking-cougar-print-c100544901.jpg

[jocko]

good one grotman. Bawanna wold fall for that to. He is gullable.

[Starbug]

Aww, come on Pudge... cougars are friendly and lovable! They're like dogs. Very cuddly. Honest. :p

http://webapp2.wright.edu/web1/community/files/2011/04/4-cougar-in-home-sm.jpg

http://www.rexano.org/GelleryImages/cats/cougar_stretch.JPG

They even like car rides like dogs do!

http://www.aefraser.com/blog/december08/cougar2.jpg

They'll even guard your car while it's parked in your yard!

http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/attachments/random-thoughts/166283d1258994693-colorado-kittys-want-pet-them-pics-cougar1.jpg

See? It's totally safe to see if they play with laser dots and hamster balls stuffed with catnip. They are like giant housecats. Really. :D :p

[Starbug]

Bawanna,I like your plan B and C. Very good ideas. We can implement them for sure. AC will be totally safe.

[Bawanna]

Would you look at the paws on that first one. Holy smokes. Count me out. Raise the french flag, I'll be watching from the beach.

[Alfonse]

Maybe we'll have to do this in Washington. With the pot being legal, it might seem like a really good idea to somebody.

[Starbug]

LOL, Alfonse. Good idea. We'll get them really stoned, convince them that cougars are just giant cuddly house cats, and then set them up with a catnip grenade and a GoPro camera. Rub it's ears, it'll purr. Trust me. Lol....

[jocko]

and u know what???THEY ARE STILL WILD FOKKING ANIMALS and then people wonder why they turn on them. The instincts are there, U cannot breed that out of them.U might indeed mask if but the instincts are there. Ask Siegfield and Roy. Just sayin. It normally only takes one time.

[Alfonse]

I don't think we'll get Jocko to do the test.

[jocko]

I don't think we'll get Jocko to do the test.

u can take that statement to the bank my friend. Just sayin:popcorn:

[Bawanna]

Such a baby sometimes, kind of a whooose. No sense of adventure. Heck we got plans B and C for safety, what could go wrong?

[MW surveyor]

I'll do it. Here, hold my beer.

[pudge]

You guys have me laffing out loud!! My wife came in to see what was wrong, since she know I am always so grouchy .... She said I oughta spend more time on this forum since laffin' plumb out loud is good for a person, she says!! Yep, them cougars are definitely scairt to death of human beans, and the very large part of the time, they see us but we don't ever see them or know they are around unless we step in the scat or happen to notice a track, or come up on the scene of a mountain lion homicide of some poor crittur. I wouldn't say I'm afeared of a mountain lion, as long as I am expecting to see one, but I'll assure you I am properly respectful of them. And my experience with those cat critturs has been that when you see one, and it sees you, and it doesn't scat right away, you'd better get the slack outa yer suspenders and prepare to take action. Yeah, I know critturs get used to seeing people and being around them, and some folks even think they have tamed them and made pets of 'em. Got an acquaintance who thought he could trust his wolf pet. He's minus some parts of his flesh and has a permanent record of that misjudgement. Things are somewhat different these days ... coyotes attacking pets and even stalking very small children deep inside major metropolitan areas is kind of an unheard of thing. But when there are free groceries around for the taking ... I hear coyotes and m lions think poodle dogs and house cats are mighty tasty morsels ... and especially when they are captive inside a back yard in a quiet neighborhood, well, why not come back for seconds? I mean, welfare groceries free for the taking with little expenditure of hard earned energy, why not? Same thing applies to people ... why else are over fifty percent of us on the public dole these days? Yeah, sometimes a cat is injured or sick and unable to pull down a deer or other usual prey, and they get bold and try to get a bite where ever it's easiest. But if it's easy, it gets regular.

For me, a cat looking at me with a gleam in its eye is an unnecessary feeling!!! Especially if it's winking like the one pictured above. Yikes!!! I'd much rather be the hunter instead of the hunted. Prevention of becoming supper seems to be a much better plan than the others mentioned. Everytime in my life I've teased something capable of drawing blood on me has resulted in blood letting. Now if you guys can talk jocko (or anyone else into trying this catnip grenade deal, I'll drive a good long ways to watch, through my binoculars of course!!

[Starbug]

I wouldn't say I'm afeared of a mountain lion, as long as I am expecting to see one,

Excellent! He says he's not afraid of cougars, especially if he's expecting to see one. Well, you know we're expecting to see a cat when we go to test our catnip and laser dot theories, so no problems here. All right! We have our first volunteer! And we also volunteered AC without his knowing it, so we can do the test twice as a control, to make sure the first results aren't a fluke. :cool: Do I also hear a "pick me, pick me" from Jocko? Yes? Ok, I think Jocko wants to participate too.... (he just doesn't know it yet) :D:p

[TucsonMTB]

Excellent! He says he's not afraid of cougars, especially if he's expecting to see one. Well, you know we're expecting to see a cat when we go to test our catnip and laser dot theories, so no problems here. All right! We have our first volunteer! And we also volunteered AC without his knowing it, so we can do the test twice as a control, to make sure the first results aren't a fluke. :cool: Do I also hear a "pick me, pick me" from Jocko? Yes? Ok, I think Jocko wants to participate too.... (he just doesn't know it yet) :D:p
jU314nyMKWE

[Barth]

Where's my 375 H&H Magnum?

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/63158_574759665872478_899607481_n.jpg

[Planedude]

Cats and their toys... Yike's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9WsyKDF-IE

[TucsonMTB]

Thanks for sharing, Dude! I enjoyed seeing these big cats having fun. :)

They must be awfully bored in most zoo settings. :ohmy:

[OlympicFox]

Nope. He might be crazy enough to want to shoot 30-something thousand rounds through a PM9, but he's not stupid! :D

Stupid-crazy is thinking that a wild animal won't hurt you.

These critters are predators. They are built to be efficient killing machines, and hard-wired to get the job done.

The Director at the wildlife rescue place the wife & volunteered at was real cool with the Bald Eagles till one of them took a swipe at her with one foot and ripped her face open with it's talons. I was in its little 8x8 enclosure the day before getting some cool pics.

http://www.serenitysys.com/nwraptorcenter_old/images/raptors/eagles/bald/2007-03F_bald_kala-point/DSC_2775_thanks.jpg'

Check out its talons - remember this is just a little 12# bird; Tweetie Bird compared to a 200# cat.

http://www.serenitysys.com/nwraptorcenter_old/images/raptors/eagles/bald/2007-03F_bald_kala-point/DSC_1941_eagle_02_talon_scars.jpg


I don't think we'll get Jocko to do the test.

[AC7880]

Our son is visiting us from Albuquerque, and my wife, son, and I saw the Mountain Lion this evening at 5:20 pm.

We were sitting outside the motor home, and the lion was on the wood line about 200 - 250 yards away. It was out past the preserve well pump, near a little game trail that leads to cement footings across the creek.

My wife saw the movement, then we looked with binoculars. I walked out about half way across the open field and fired one shot into the ground as a noise maker as the cat was sitting looking my way (to see what the cat would do). He laid down but did not retreat.

My son walked out with the binoculars so I could better see what the lion was doing, and the lion sat back up. I closed a little more distance towards him and the cat started moving into the wood line out of sight. I put one more round into the ground as a noise maker as he was leaving. I was never closer than about 75 yards with open field and good visibility.

AZ Fish and Game documents advise "hazing" the cat with noise and aggressive behaviors to teach the cat to keep more distance. Fish and Game documents detail lion behaviors, and this cat is not considered a direct threat at this point in time according to their guidelines.

Sorry fellas, I had no laser red dot sights, no catnip bombs, and did not want to get close enough this close to dark anyways. So, who wants to buy me a laser sight for my Kahr K9?

I have now seen this lion 4 times, my wife 3 times, and my son once. And no, Mittens cannot move into the motor home - we have enough house cats as is.

Dan
http://2toomanycats.blogspot.com/

[Bawanna]

Your my hero Dan. Wish I could be there with you to see mittens in person. How cool that has to be.
I'll start saving for a laser for ya. I think starbug is working on the catnip bombs. Should all come together soon.

So do we need to close to the public after this last sighting or do we let them look too?

If I come down, I'm not the public right? I'm bait?

[AC7880]

More pics I have taken the last 10 days here on the preserve:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/68031_560748810607330_1259405219_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/154298_560747927274085_3227404_n.jpg


http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/28037_560747437274134_1042369114_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/644041_560749820607229_1209239187_n.jpg


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/63692_560746523940892_2039295902_n.jpg

[TucsonMTB]

Wow! Small Javelina this late in the year is a surprise.

Several adults and more like teenager sized individuals visited our neighborhood three days ago. Woke me up at 4:00 am by knocking over a neighbor's trash bin, climbing inside, and then banging around even louder when the lid got wedged closed by a parked vehicle wheel. It was funny for several minutes until he got out . . .

We often see bobcats and they look big enough to make me appreciate your caution with the larger edition! ;)

[AC7880]

The preserve manager is out of town for Thanksgiving. I spoke with him on the phone this evening and I recommended we reopen tommorrow (Saturday), and he agreed to it. This could go on all winter with closures otherwise.

We will warn all visitors, and have posted new warning signs. We will also insist all visitors be out before 4:30 - before dusk prime time hunting for the lion.

We now have a pdf file Fish and Game uses to evaluate threats from various critters - and the behaviors of this particualr lion are within bounds of "normal". Plenty of game on the preserve and the cat is well fed.

In the meantime we will engage in "hazing" everytime we see the lion to give him respect for two leggers. "Looking large" by arms in air, opening jackets, yelling, throwing rocks, waving sticks, and in my case a pistol shot or three.

My wife and I are on the preserve 24/7, 6.5 days per week. We shop 1/2 day once a week to either Nogales, Sierra Vista, Ft Huachuca Army Base, Tucson, or Davis Monthan AFB (preserve closed every Mon/Tues).

We arrived here 15 Oct, and plan to leave 15 Feb. Only one visitor and my son have seen the cat besides my wife and I. I have seen it 4 times, wife 3 times (with me), son once (with me), and one visitor who happened to be with me (I rarely walk with visitors).

"Bait", or guests I host are welcome to come on down. Almost guarantee seeing deer, maybe an owl, likely a hawk or two, possibly Javelina, and in another month or two good shot at Coatimundi.




Your my hero Dan. Wish I could be there with you to see mittens in person. How cool that has to be.
I'll start saving for a laser for ya. I think starbug is working on the catnip bombs. Should all come together soon.

So do we need to close to the public after this last sighting or do we let them look too?

If I come down, I'm not the public right? I'm bait?

[AC7880]

My wife and I have yet to see a Bobcat in the wild. They are here on the preserve, and I see them on wildlife cameras on the preserve - just no actual eyeball sighting yet. Also saw a fox, coyotes, and one Black bear on the wildlife motion activated cameras. Oh, and one 3 foot black tailed rattlesnake was around, and I am fighting packrats and mice to keep them out of the motor home and tow car wiring.


Wow! Small Javelina this late in the year is a surprise.

Several adults and more like teenager sized individuals visited our neighborhood three days ago. Woke me up at 4:00 am by knocking over a neighbor's trash bin, climbing inside, and then banging around even louder when the lid got wedged closed by a parked vehicle wheel. It was funny for several minutes until he got out . . .

We often see bobcats and they look big enough to make me appreciate your caution with the larger edition! ;)

[AC7880]

Javelina Family

http://youtu.be/_9hGw1JhUgE


Mountain Lion 16 Nov:
http://youtu.be/J0uP0xSOduE

[pudge]

GREAT pictures, Sir! Of course, I like what they portray very much. Obviously you were in pretty close proximity to these creatures, and that takes skill and patience. Your large kitty friend obviously does not have much fear of humans, which means at the least that it has been around humans quite a lot. If it is only curious about you, and more likely curious about those tasty bits of small kitties you mentioned, and IF it does not run short on rations it can obtain for itself off the regular menu in it's dining place of choice, it probably won't be attacking you unless you put yourself in a very ill advised position. But I would say this ... while you were taking those wonderful photos we see here, I'm betting that you became much less aware of the environment around you while you were so focused on the subject of your pictures. Your field of vision would have narrowed naturally and you would have been being still or moving slowly toward the animal or bird as you got in position for your "shot".

I have had the experience of sitting still while camoflaged for thirty minutes or so, hoping to attract the attention of a wandering coyote with no success. After ceasing to blow my hand held call, sitting a moment moving around and stretching prior to getting up off the ground, I have risen and turned around toward my truck and found a large bobcat sitting very still watching me from less than ten feet away. Talk about your heart skipping a beat and the hair standing up on the back of your neck!!! I know of others who have attracted the attention of the larger cats while doing the same thing. Nature and God's creation is marvelous, but it can also be unforgiving since creatures normally behave in the way they must to survive. Hunger is a driving force!

I envy you the privilege of spending time in such a place, with that much wildlife close at hand. Just maintain a proper level of respect and distance, and observe them during good daylight hours and you'll be rewarded. Fail to use due care and common sense and you'll potentially have consequences less than desireable! Thanks so much for the pictures! Keep your eye on that cat! Rest assured it's keeping it's eyes on you!!

[AC7880]

I carry the camera on every walk, but many days I walk and take no photos. I see deer almost every day, but after a few pics of them thats enough. The rest is luck of the draw. Some days we see very little, other days we see alot.

My wife has a high end DSLR with multiple lenses and gets better pics than me, I get video as well though with my all in one Cannon SX40 (zooms to optical 40X, optical and digital almost tripple that).

The first time I took pics of the lion I had a visitor to the preserve with me. He kept watch while I took pics and had reduced field of vision. The last set of pics 16 Nov I was alone, and the reduced field of vision had me wired pretty tight and heart rate up. I felt comfortable when not looking through the lens, and nervous when looking through the lens. I dropped the lens down many times for a wider view, and that is why my you tube clips of the cat are so short. I was approx 30 yards away, across the creek from it.

I get the point about shooting pics of other critters/birds, and losing the big picture. Point taken, and I will discuss that with my wife as well to keep her focused. We often walk seperately, so the other person can greet visitors to the preserve.

I'd just as soon the lion move on, and we start seeing bobcats instead. I have a feeling this cat is here to stay though -- good water and lot's of deer.


GREAT pictures, Sir! Of course, I like what they portray very much. Obviously you were in pretty close proximity to these creatures, and that takes skill and patience. Your large kitty friend obviously does not have much fear of humans, which means at the least that it has been around humans quite a lot. If it is only curious about you, and more likely curious about those tasty bits of small kitties you mentioned, and IF it does not run short on rations it can obtain for itself off the regular menu in it's dining place of choice, it probably won't be attacking you unless you put yourself in a very ill advised position. But I would say this ... while you were taking those wonderful photos we see here, I'm betting that you became much less aware of the environment around you while you were so focused on the subject of your pictures. Your field of vision would have narrowed naturally and you would have been being still or moving slowly toward the animal or bird as you got in position for your "shot".

I have had the experience of sitting still while camoflaged for thirty minutes or so, hoping to attract the attention of a wandering coyote with no success. After ceasing to blow my hand held call, sitting a moment moving around and stretching prior to getting up off the ground, I have risen and turned around toward my truck and found a large bobcat sitting very still watching me from less than ten feet away. Talk about your heart skipping a beat and the hair standing up on the back of your neck!!! I know of others who have attracted the attention of the larger cats while doing the same thing. Nature and God's creation is marvelous, but it can also be unforgiving since creatures normally behave in the way they must to survive. Hunger is a driving force!

I envy you the privilege of spending time in such a place, with that much wildlife close at hand. Just maintain a proper level of respect and distance, and observe them during good daylight hours and you'll be rewarded. Fail to use due care and common sense and you'll potentially have consequences less than desireable! Thanks so much for the pictures! Keep your eye on that cat! Rest assured it's keeping it's eyes on you!!

[AC7880]

Coatimundi - last year. Pics in January 2012, youtube Feb 2012. We did not know what Coatimundi were until last year hosting this preserve.

You Tube
http://youtu.be/i8CjP2_JQCI

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C7CZGMmvK3k/Tw3nAhjuB9I/AAAAAAAAAr4/lG8HVQ89g0w/s400/DSC_0017a.jpg

[Bawanna]

I wondered what they were. Never heard of them. Looks like a raccoon ant eater cross.

[jocko]

I wondered what they were. Never heard of them. Looks like a raccoon ant eater cross.

exactly right. Those two meet in a local c0*n bar about 100 years ago and well the restis history.:blah:

[AC7880]

This is a motion activated wildlife camera picture from 19 Nov 4 PM. This was in between our last two sightings in person, but I just pulled in the SD data card today to see what was on it. Same location as the 16 November pictures and video I had taken. Deer on the the same camera same location, different time. Note the cat smelling the ground? I had located the camera there a couple of hours earlier that day.


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/67620_562527030429508_1234377533_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=562527030429508&set=a.168127386536143.45600.100000166470239&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf)

[Starbug]

Wow, great pics and cool stories. My boss showed me a pic that he took in the morning, two bobcats walking through his front yard. They were quite the pair!

[AC7880]

Our lion made it into a Tucson newspaper paper article.

Some of the basic facts are wrong since they did not speak to my nor my wife, but the gist of it is correct.

http://azstarnet.com/news/science/environment/patagonia-sonoita-creek-preserve-warns-of-mountain-lion-sightings/article_51938d19-dddd-53ff-a0d4-3870633282c4.html

[Alfonse]

They didn't mention using a red pointer in the safety tips either.

[Starbug]

What self respecting safety article doesn't mention red laser pointers when dealing with big cats? Shoddy journalism, man. LOL....

[Bawanna]

Or catnip throw toys neither. Damn liberals.

[sas PM9]

Did anyone else have the thought cross their mind that the "air horns" might be likened to dinner bells?

I'm thinking that the "Bad Behavior" quoted below would certainly be interpreted as an invitation to depart. . .hastily.

"Such behavior would include a lion staring intently at a person upon an encounter, a lion engaging in stalking behavior or a lion whose ears have flattened as opposed to being upright, Hart said."

-steve

[Barth]

Did anyone else have the thought cross their mind that the "air horns" might be likened to dinner bells?

I'm thinking that the "Bad Behavior" quoted below would certainly be interpreted as an invitation to depart. . .hastily.

"Such behavior would include a lion staring intently at a person upon an encounter, a lion engaging in stalking behavior or a lion whose ears have flattened as opposed to being upright, Hart said."

-steve

In a previous life, with friends long since not friends,
we watched a funny, heart warming, video called "Faces of Death".
Part of the video had two car thieves.
They climbed over a fence into a car lot with a security camera rolling.
The camera panned back and forth as the two guys entered the lot.
Then they tried to escape as two German Shepherds chased them.
One got over the fence.
The other didn't.

I'm not going to go into details.
But don't think the last guy lived through the experience.
Both dogs tails were clearly wagging throughout the video.

[Starbug]

In a previous life, with friends long since not friends,
we watched a funny, heart warming, video called "Faces of Death".
Part of the video had two car thieves.
They climbed over a fence into a car lot with a security camera rolling.
The camera panned back and forth as the two guys entered the lot.
Then they tried to escape as two German Shepherds chased them.
One got over the fence.
The other didn't.

I'm not going to go into details.
But don't think the last guy lived through the experience.
Both dogs tails were clearly wagging throughout the video.


Two reasons why the dog's tails were wagging in the movie Faces of Death... (note: I've never heard of this movie, so assuming it's a fictional Hollywood movie)

First: since this was a Hollywood movie and those German shepherds were actor dogs, they were wagging their tails because it's all a game to them and they are obeying their handler's ques for the various actions/behaviors required for the scene. They will be rewarded with a tennis ball and/or food at the end, and they know it. The training to set up the scene is a huge game of smaller games within, each teaching the various bits from posture/face expression, to the bites/growls/chasing/barks. Builds up to the the finished product of an entire scene where a dog mauls a guy to death. The dog is rewarded for each successful bit during training, and again after the actual filming of the final complete scene. The dog is having a great time looking mean.

Second: if this was a real event and not a movie, in real life an aggressive dog does sometimes wag it's tail when threatening an opponent. The action is called "flagging", and when being used in the visual context of a threat, does not mean the same thing as a happy wag while greeting a friend. It's like when you flip your middle finger at a friend vs someone that just cut you off on the road.... you're joking with your friend, but you're pissed at the car that cut you off. Same gesture, different meanings. You can see police dogs wag their tails as they lung on the end of the handler's leash, eager for the command to attack the bad guy. Also, excitement and adrenaline may also cause a wagging tail during an unfriendly encounter.

My now-deceased labrador was a trained movie dog, by me. She was part of a dog actor casting company in her golden years of life. She died just before her first chance at stardom in a Jeep commercial, so never did make it into tv/movies. But she was successfully taught many face expressions and actions. Another lab whose owner trained along side me, even taught her's to flair her nostrils on command. You can teach many tiny details like that.

[les strat]

Two reasons why the dog's tails were wagging in the movie Faces of Death... (note: I've never heard of this movie, so assuming it's a fictional Hollywood movie)

First: since this was a Hollywood movie and those German shepherds were actor dogs, they were wagging their tails because it's all a game to them and they are obeying their handler's ques for the various actions/behaviors required for the scene. They will be rewarded with a tennis ball and/or food at the end, and they know it. The training to set up the scene is a huge game of smaller games within, each teaching the various bits from posture/face expression, to the bites/growls/chasing/barks. Builds up to the the finished product of an entire scene where a dog mauls a guy to death. The dog is rewarded for each successful bit during training, and again after the actual filming of the final complete scene. The dog is having a great time looking mean.

Second: if this was a real event and not a movie, in real life an aggressive dog does sometimes wag it's tail when threatening an opponent. The action is called "flagging", and when being used in the visual context of a threat, does not mean the same thing as a happy wag while greeting a friend. It's like when you flip your middle finger at a friend vs someone that just cut you off on the road.... you're joking with your friend, but you're pissed at the car that cut you off. Same gesture, different meanings. You can see police dogs wag their tails as they lung on the end of the handler's leash, eager for the command to attack the bad guy. Also, excitement and adrenaline may also cause a wagging tail during an unfriendly encounter.

My now-deceased labrador was a trained movie dog, by me. She was part of a dog actor casting company in her golden years of life. She died just before her first chance at stardom in a Jeep commercial, so never did make it into tv/movies. But she was successfully taught many face expressions and actions. Another lab whose owner trained along side me, even taught her's to flair her nostrils on command. You can teach many tiny details like that.

No, faces of death is not fiction, but a film series of real-life gruesome footage of people dying in various ways.

[Starbug]

Oh damn... I don't think I could watch that if it is real-life footage. It's not hard to watch a death scene when you know it's fake, but if you know it's real that's a lot harder to watch.

Since that movie is real, then the explanation in the second paragraph is why the dog's tail was wagging. If the dog is also mean spirited (animals are like people, some are innocent & sweet and some are a$$holes), he may very well be enjoying the kill process. Some dogs do.

[AC7880]

Mountain Lion is still around. Some updates first, then in a little while I'll post new pics I took today around 12 noon of a single lion in the post immediately after this one. Maybe a youtube link of a short video I shot today as well.

On 4 December, two lions together were spotted at Patagonia Lake State Park 6 miles south of us. The creek here on the preserve dumps into that lake, with ranches in between. It is unknown if these 2 cats were siblings, mother and offspring, or mates.

On 6 December at 5:15 pm, a single lion was in the backyard of a house 1 mile north of us on the outer edge of Patagonia. Thge lion was messing around their rabbit hutches. The lady of the house rattled the windows twice and the cat left.

The hills are pretty dry, so the deer, javelina, lions, and other critters are staying near the water source and food supply. We did have 1.5 inches of rain the past 3 days, cleared up now.



Apparently in other areas of the nation a few cats are also near humanity.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2i-_wNm79jI/UMNS-KjKsBI/AAAAAAAAOdw/gDUQzczWcEw/s320/lionaroundthedeck.png (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2i-_wNm79jI/UMNS-KjKsBI/AAAAAAAAOdw/gDUQzczWcEw/s1600/lionaroundthedeck.png)

[jocko]

nice photo of someone's pet lion

[AC7880]

Patience Jocko. The above pic is a joke. I'm loading pics of todays sighting now. Here's a youtube I just uploaded you can check out while I work on the photos:

http://youtu.be/eJQdir_hYVI




nice photo of someone's pet lion

[AC7880]

The preserve was closed today so my wife and I were able to walk together. We were walking up on the old railroad bed that runs through the preserve, and I was looking down hill at one of the game trails with an open area that is a Coues Deer hotspot, when I spotted the Mountain Lion.


The lion was laying under the edge of the brush along the outer fenceline of the preserve. He was within 10-20 feet of the dirt road that goes past the preserve, and cars and walkers would be going right past the lion and never see it due to brush. We were approximately 50 - 75 yards away, and the cat looked at us, but mostly ignored us, even closing it's eyes for a bit.


The cat was clearly resting. After we shot some pictures, we walked onward. About 100 yards further down the path we saw several deer down the same hill moving through the brush. If lion is hungry he will likely have a meal around dusk.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-L6V1vKlpUO8/UM_Ej5eO0II/AAAAAAAAOeE/lQkk6qNZpWk/s320/IMG_2551.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-L6V1vKlpUO8/UM_Ej5eO0II/AAAAAAAAOeE/lQkk6qNZpWk/s1600/IMG_2551.JPG)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FZkpR21yKjo/UM_FV75hJzI/AAAAAAAAOeM/OBwn5XlWUhs/s320/IMG_2552.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FZkpR21yKjo/UM_FV75hJzI/AAAAAAAAOeM/OBwn5XlWUhs/s1600/IMG_2552.JPG)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qmIxoF-lTs/UM_F2iZJA4I/AAAAAAAAOeU/FZiIGbXQ1DM/s320/IMG_2553.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7qmIxoF-lTs/UM_F2iZJA4I/AAAAAAAAOeU/FZiIGbXQ1DM/s1600/IMG_2553.JPG)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vvHbMxCYcJU/UM_GVZ2uTkI/AAAAAAAAOec/OD6eusJbcqA/s320/IMG_2556.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vvHbMxCYcJU/UM_GVZ2uTkI/AAAAAAAAOec/OD6eusJbcqA/s1600/IMG_2556.JPG)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aJ3asss8qX4/UM_GvvAFcxI/AAAAAAAAOeo/NAgrgaooi4o/s320/IMG_2558.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aJ3asss8qX4/UM_GvvAFcxI/AAAAAAAAOeo/NAgrgaooi4o/s1600/IMG_2558.JPG)

Youtube same cat today: http://youtu.be/eJQdir_hYVI

Javelina and Blue Heron - couple of days ago:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qqsOsmMuCh8/UM_JgYbSI4I/AAAAAAAAOe0/EWjrktaxonU/s320/IMG_2539.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qqsOsmMuCh8/UM_JgYbSI4I/AAAAAAAAOe0/EWjrktaxonU/s1600/IMG_2539.JPG)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j0MyhtEDcrc/UM_JwM4mAdI/AAAAAAAAOfA/WdsqXJivZBQ/s320/IMG_2541.JPG (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-j0MyhtEDcrc/UM_JwM4mAdI/AAAAAAAAOfA/WdsqXJivZBQ/s1600/IMG_2541.JPG)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7ArMBdIjohg/UM_J_sXrRII/AAAAAAAAOfI/nPhRz0IZdg0/s320/IMG_2542.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7ArMBdIjohg/UM_J_sXrRII/AAAAAAAAOfI/nPhRz0IZdg0/s1600/IMG_2542.JPG)

[jocko]

Patience Jocko. The above pic is a joke. I'm loading pics of todays sighting now. Here's a youtube I just uploaded you can check out while I work on the phtotos:

http://youtu.be/eJQdir_hYVI

knew that, being the porch was enclosed and many have lion pets for some eason or anutter.

[AC7880]

A couple of motion sensor activated wildlife camera pictures/videos from 20 December, approximately 100 - 125 yards from our visitors center and our motor-home (across the creek and in the woodline).

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/307502_575539172461627_429926308_n.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/521302_575539419128269_971772197_n.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bubu0oQx3hs&feature=player_embedded

Nope, it's not catnip kitty is smelling and rolling on. I had "scent marked" that spot so any animals would hang around sniffing. Human urine marking. Check out the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tB8vn4HBI&feature=player_embedded

All my wildlife videos from last winter and this winter - some motion sensor wildlife camera videos and some hand held that I shot myself: http://www.youtube.com/user/AC7880

[RRP]

I've enjoyed your photos and videos, Dan. I may never see a big cat in the wild, but your videos are the next best thing. Thank you.

Have a very merry Christmas.

[wyntrout]

I've only seen one in the wild... crossing the road about 100+ yards in front of us one night in New Mexico or Colorado... don't remember... was watching for deer closer to us, but thought it was just another deer until Wifey said "That was a cat!" That's close enough for me!

We go up to Colorado about once a year or two and I'm always mindful that there are several kinds of critters about that think we're in their food chain! I don't go for walks without packing a decent sized pistol.

Wynn:)

[AC7880]

2 Legged Critters on the Preserve. Drug smugglers crossing firebreak captured on wildlife camera.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/62350_595738657108345_833872889_n.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6hZ6gOgdwRU/UQHzz9s6hUI/AAAAAAAAOhs/RqcgtpfatWA/s400/SUNP0103.JPG (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6hZ6gOgdwRU/UQHzz9s6hUI/AAAAAAAAOhs/RqcgtpfatWA/s1600/SUNP0103.JPG)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KAR96GMkNtY/UQHz3hczBYI/AAAAAAAAOh0/-h_NcXc-Y5A/s400/SUNP0057.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KAR96GMkNtY/UQHz3hczBYI/AAAAAAAAOh0/-h_NcXc-Y5A/s1600/SUNP0057.JPG)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wGmpG9lD2QY/UQHz7E70_rI/AAAAAAAAOh8/I4uhtYXdL74/s400/SUNP0058.JPG (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wGmpG9lD2QY/UQHz7E70_rI/AAAAAAAAOh8/I4uhtYXdL74/s1600/SUNP0058.JPG)

[Armybrat]

Is that in southwest Texas?

[AC7880]

Is that in southwest Texas?

SE Arizona.

[wyntrout]

Un-documented night hikers! I'm sure that Obummer's Homeland Security is trying to catch them... to give them driver's licenses, voter registration cards, and food stamps... not to forget Social Security cards, too!

Wynn:D

[MikeyKahr]

We do not have an immigration problem. And no need for a border fence. All is well.

[Armybrat]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1-HnFZIsGh8/T1tNzz_nNzI/AAAAAAAALvI/U_79Qm5Nv5w/s400/remaincalm-01.jpg