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kahrsport
10-29-2012, 06:14 PM
hey y'all:

so now i have an appetite for an sbr ak or underfolder ak...
i've seen so many youtube and review and so many opinions that i am now utterly confused...

anyway i am almost set on getting a yugo underfolder soon to simplify things... but really want an sbr ak so i don't end up with 2 aks in the safe as i don't know if i will ever shoot it over 500 rounds...

thanx

les strat
10-29-2012, 06:53 PM
Don't quote me on this, but I don't think Yugos have a chrome lined barrel, which means they won't last quite as long. Probably won't matter if you are going to rarely shoot it.

I have a WASR 10/63, and a darn good one. If you inspect them first hand, you can make sure it doesn't have a canted front sight (which happens on all makes of AK's) or mag wobble. Whichever you go with, inspect it first if you can.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/KevinJenne/AKfinished.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/KevinJenne/IMG_6723.jpg

eireguy
10-29-2012, 07:17 PM
http://centerfiresystems.com/ak_firearms.aspx best prices i've seen.the amd 65 actually has a 12(12 1/2?) barrel with muzzle attachment to bring it up to legal length.would it be easier/cheaper to just have the attachment removed somehow to sbr it?

kahrsport
10-29-2012, 08:30 PM
that amd65 looks interesting for the price... but that folding stock and front grip have to go...

mr surveyor
10-29-2012, 09:41 PM
why in the world would anyone want a 12" barrel with a 4 inch flash supressor (or whatever the attachment is to make it "legal" length), when you would have much better ballistics from a 16 inch barrel of equal (legal) length? I can understand the fascination with the SBR for "close quarters" use, but a "sbr barrel" with 4 inches of useless extension (ballistically speaking) makes no sense..... unless it's the idea of having the shortest overall length possible with a FS?

some things I just don't understand.

eireguy
10-30-2012, 12:21 AM
Yeah I agree about the grip & stock.

kahrsport
10-30-2012, 07:02 PM
but i wonder how easy is it to swap to an underfolder on the amd65... the rear of the receiver where that folding stock goes looks very strange in design to me...

eireguy
10-30-2012, 09:51 PM
These guys talk about it http://www.gunsnet.net/showthread.php?8003-AMD-stock-replacements check out amd65tech.com also.it can be done,but by then you might spend as much as the next model up.could get one of the wire stocks w the cheek rest.

eireguy
10-30-2012, 09:53 PM
The ace stock looks pretty good http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_77/130633_New_Krebs_AMD_65_rear_stock_adapter__looks_ sweet_.html

johnh
10-31-2012, 08:21 AM
I have an SBR AK, and have also assisted friends in other similar projects. I spent many years with the AK family as my primary choice for long guns. I would not do the AMD. The stock options are limited, and shortening a barrel permanently altered to be 16" would require a smith. If you look at military reports on actual AMDs, they are not very positive.

The best way to do an SBR at present is to buy a quality AK pistol, tax stamp it, then add stock. There are some really good choices for that. My current favorite is the Zastava PAP pistol in 7.62x39. I have been resisting the urge to grab one of those myself. The Draco pistols also work well. Both have flat backs on the receiver. Typically guys drill and tap that for an ACE stock adapter, then you can add anything you want. Much less gunsmithing. The various imported AK pistols are also exempt from 922r, so they have completely original parts. Nothing is replaced by the importer.

Arsenal also has some very nice AK pistols for SBR conversion. Pricey, but well built. Another fun option is the VZ58 pistol imported by Czechpoint. That is not in any way an AK, but they run 7.62x39 and are very well made.

I will dig around and see if I have a pic handy of my SBR after I Duracoated it.

On ballistics, yes you lose velocity. You have to compare it to pistol calibered SMGs and SBRs to see the advantage. I get 30 or more rounds of a rifle caliber that is still moving far faster than say 9mm, still has a better reach, and is in a gun no larger than an SMG. I can still use all mags and accessories for its full-sized relatives. Very handy indeed.

johnh
10-31-2012, 08:23 AM
Also on the point of underfolders, the stocks are really uncomfortable. I have owned a couple and could never get used to it. They were good investments given the purchase price, but not shooters IMHO.

johnh
10-31-2012, 08:40 AM
Here is a picture post-Duracoat:

eireguy
10-31-2012, 08:44 AM
That does look pretty sweet

les strat
10-31-2012, 08:48 AM
Very nice John!

kahrsport
10-31-2012, 11:29 AM
mine oh mine... i would buy that thing right now if it were for sale...


Here is a picture post-Duracoat:

johnh
10-31-2012, 03:51 PM
I should never have hit this thread. Now I am looking at Zastava pistols again...

kahrsport
10-31-2012, 06:54 PM
haha... i went looking at the youtube draco pistol > sbr conversion... want one...

what ya think of the zastava thumbhole ak version?

johnh
11-01-2012, 08:07 AM
I hear they are nice guns, and you can get them already set up for double-stacked magazines. Before the ban Yugo AKs were considered among the better ones in terms of build quality. Keep in mind the Yugo guns are a little different in some dimensions. If you intend to change out furniture, add a mount, etc., you may need ones made for Yugo guns specifically. There are plenty of choices for that. They also do not chrome line their barrels. Not really an issue these days since most of the bulk ammo shooters use is current Russian commercial production.

kahrsport
11-01-2012, 06:44 PM
cool... i checking inventory on draco right now but the 992r requirement gets me... i can get someone to drill 2 holes for the folding stock but the other components seems like lotta track work to get it 992r compliant... atf and then 992r?

kahrsport
11-06-2012, 08:15 PM
what do you all think about this route?... not an sbr but close enough?...

JFootin
11-06-2012, 08:40 PM
kahrsport, excuse my AK ignorance but what is that on the back? It doesn't look like a shoulder stock. Is it a squeeze it against your side with your arm stock?

kahrsport
11-06-2012, 10:00 PM
it is the buffer tube, it's funky i know...

johnh
11-07-2012, 08:46 AM
I have thought about that before, but I am not sure the ATF would exempt the buffer tube from being a "stock" on a gun that does not require it to operate.

kahrsport
11-07-2012, 10:42 AM
the usmachinegun site sells the complete kit... no drilling or mod needed and is legal they say... still a pistol classification... i like the no mod needed part really... wonder what anyone else thinks about it...

johnh
11-10-2012, 11:01 AM
Just about done with my .308 Vepr. I got the CNC folding stock assembly and MOE stock on it yesterday. Waiting for the grip I want to use, and for SGM to release their Vepr forearm. Right now I am just running the wood it came with. I used a CNC Warrior VZ58 brake on it. The end result will be a nice, lightweight, short carbine in .308. The deals on Veprs right now are too good to pass up if any of you are looking for a high quality AK. They are really the top of the line unless you spend the extra cash to get a Galil.

gb6491
11-10-2012, 11:16 AM
Just about done with my .308 Vepr. I got the CNC folding stock assembly and MOE stock on it yesterday. Waiting for the grip I want to use, and for SGM to release their Vepr forearm. Right now I am just running the wood it came with. I used a CNC Warrior VZ58 brake on it. The end result will be a nice, lightweight, short carbine in .308. The deals on Veprs right now are too good to pass up if any of you are looking for a high quality AK. They are really the top of the line unless you spend the extra cash to get a Galil.
Please post some photos when it's done. I've been pretty pleased with my Saiga .308 in it's stock form, but having been seriously thinking of converting it.
Regards,
Greg

kahrsport
11-10-2012, 12:07 PM
hey john, can you show me a site where i can get a civilian version of the galil or micro galil? i think an investment in a good accurate ak is good idea off the bat - their sights are much better than standard ak...

the vz just look awful to me... they're of a different design...

kahrsport
11-12-2012, 03:39 PM
ok saw the galil on gunbroker... big money...

i saw some russian vepr on sale and just ordered one... good price for a good rep gun... but do the vepr accept other ak accessories? i read that these are like the sportster version ak that have single stack and different type of ak altogether

now lookin around to find some stocks and grips for the vepr

johnh
11-13-2012, 09:22 AM
I can sure post some pics. The stock and brake came from CNC Warrior:

http://www.cncwarrior.com/

I ran it last weekend with a surplus Romanian PSL scope. Using Silver Bear .308, I was cutting nice grooves in hedge apples at 100. IOR made some of the PSL scopes and the glass is quite clear. I also like the range finder.

The VZ brake worked very well to reduce muzzle climb. I put a thicker pad on the MOE stock. I could shoot this one all day without recoil bothering me.

Once I get the handguard I want, my plan is to Alumahyde it for the final step. Russian finishes are not that great. Apart from that the Vepr is quite well built.

kahrsport
11-14-2012, 10:50 AM
coming 2013... Izhmash AK-12...

kahrsport
11-14-2012, 05:57 PM
my new vepr should be coming in anyday now... here's generic pic for now...

once i get the goodies and find my camera usb cord i will post some rad pics with mod if they come in time... enjoy...

JFootin
11-14-2012, 06:30 PM
I know it's an AR, but what do you guys think of this AR-Lite from USAammo.com? The reviews are very good.

http://www.usaammo.com/AR-Lite-M4-Carbine-AR15-P869.aspx

kahrsport
11-14-2012, 07:32 PM
for under 700 buckeroo, that looks ok... dpms panther is around there or a little less and looks good too... gl

JustinN
11-15-2012, 10:02 PM
Some of The videos on that site.....wow. Bawanna needs to watch the tannerite video...i had way to much fun with those videos.

kahrsport
11-16-2012, 11:56 AM
so, if i were to trim down my vepr thumbhole stock to add something else at the, what would fit and look good there? john?...

kahrsport
11-17-2012, 12:13 PM
this is what i would like for it to look like but seems like only two screws would hold it on (no tang attachment)... anyone else besides ace make something like this with flat back to go up against the wood?...

tryin to keep some wood since the stuff is quality (can't do a thumbhole - brings back memory days of 1022)...

my sbr ak project will be more accessorized but for the vepr it only needs a scope and new stock...

johnh
11-18-2012, 07:43 PM
First thing to decide is do you want to cut the tang off the rear of the receiver trunion, or do you want to leave it original? There are multiple blocks designed to allow mounting rear stocks, with extra metal to fill in the slant cut area. I used the one from www.cncwarrior.com that folds and accepts an AR stock. It does not require cutting the tang off the rear trunion. If you decide to use one that does, I can point you at some sites that offer blocks designed to accept the ACE style adapters that multiple manufacturers support.

I need to shoot some pics of my Vepr as it is the type in your most recent photo, with the original handguard and an M4 pattern stock. I am thinking the wood handguard may stay as it is comfortable. Right now I am leaning towards keeping it and adding an Ultimak forward mount so I can keep a red dot in place, and still use the PSL scope mounted on the side rail.

kahrsport
11-18-2012, 10:16 PM
yeah i forgot the tang...oops...
guess i'll just leave this one alone and work on the sbr ak instead...

or maybe something like this...? just cant do thumhole...

johnh
11-19-2012, 08:46 AM
Here is the CNC one I used:

http://www.cncwarrior.com/shop/images/4820/?240,240,3721229050

http://www.cncwarrior.com/shop/24827-vepr-rh-integral-folding-stock-hinge/

Two other options from Carolina Shooters:

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/catalog/DSC03661.JPG

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1513/VEPR-Wood-Stock-Adapter/Detail

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/catalog/VEPRAdapter.jpg

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-1592/Krebs-Vepr-External-Block/Detail

These all avoid cutting the tang. You can use the first with polymer stocks, just have to remove enough material to fit inside the adapter. It should not be too hard with a Dremel.

kahrsport
11-20-2012, 04:47 PM
hey john, thanx for all your helpful posts... ur the man...
---
i got some of my ordered ak parts in (scorp grip, poly 4end, buffer etc.) which won't fit my vepr without dremel work... but i made save them for the m92pap...

found this for $90 from rhineland... not bad... looks great and could save my oem stock...

kahrsport
11-21-2012, 11:08 AM
http://bonesteelarms.com/Folding-Stocks_c10.htm

folding galil stock for vepr...

johnh
11-21-2012, 01:18 PM
Okay, finally got the Vepr out and took a pic. Still a work in progress. I have an MOE K grip inbound in OD green. Then have to decide if I am going to proceed with an OD Alumahyde coat as originally planned. Still debating that one.

johnh
11-21-2012, 01:20 PM
The Bonesteel one is the same as the CNC Warrior, just more options at Bonesteel. Not sure the relationship between the two vendors. They promote each other so must be a partnership of some sort.

jeepster09
11-21-2012, 01:33 PM
Okay, finally got the Vepr out and took a pic. Still a work in progress. I have an MOE K grip inbound in OD green. Then have to decide if I am going to proceed with an OD Alumahyde coat as originally planned. Still debating that one.

Very nice....yes do the OD green.:D

kahrsport
11-21-2012, 01:45 PM
very nice vepr indeed...
for some reason, the ar collapsible stocks are starting to appeal to me... i think it even look better than the tubular galil stock on the vepr (specifically)... here's someone elses'...

johnh
11-21-2012, 08:40 PM
I like those US Palm grips. I wish they made one in OD. If the K grip does not work out, I may do that instead. I have an AK adapter for use with AR grips, but the standard MOE grip has too much of a beaver tail on the back to clear the Vepr receiver. I did not want to cut that off.

You know a 5.45 Vepr set up like that would also be fun. Hmm....

kahrsport
11-21-2012, 09:13 PM
m92 pap are on sale for $499 j&gsales... hahaha