Companies announcing layoffs

[Chief Joseph]

Just the beginning

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/how-many-businesses-have-announced-closings-or-lay-offs-since-obama-won-a-second-term/

[gb6491]

I'm not seeing the firearms/shooting content in this one.

[gb6491]

Well, after some consultation and clarification, this one is once again open for discussion.
Regards,
Greg

[jocko]

good man, the fourm thanks you..

[Tinman507]

+1 Greg. Thanks!

[muggsy]

Are you always that quick on the trigger, Greg? Now the post is gun related. :)

[Bawanna]

You fella's lighten up on GB. Its a rule and a good one. We've been granted a little leeway in lieu of the traumatic week and horrible election results but when things cool a bit it'll be back to pretty much gun related or anti second amendment post.

Mans doing his job so grant him a little slack.

I'm usually the one accused of having the itchy trigger finger around here. Kind of takes the heat off some huh?

[Tinman507]

It's all good, Boss.
Being a mod has gotta be the most thankless job ever.
Playing Solomon isn't easy. Always gonna pi$$ someone off.

All of you guys do a helluva job. Thanks!!

[ltxi]

You fella's lighten up on GB. Its a rule and a good one. We've been granted a little leeway in lieu of the traumatic week and horrible election results but when things cool a bit it'll be back to pretty much gun related or anti second amendment post.

Mans doing his job so grant him a little slack.

I'm usually the one accused of having the itchy trigger finger around here. Kind of takes the heat off some huh?

Good to hear....the back to the rules soon bit.

[gb6491]

Are you always that quick on the trigger, Greg? Now the post is gun related. :)
I don't consider myself quick on the trigger, but I am up late at night. Thanks for making everything copacetic:)
Regards,
Greg

[LorenzoB]

It's all good, Boss.
Being a mod has gotta be the most thankless job ever.
Playing Solomon isn't easy. Always gonna pi$$ someone off.

All of you guys do a helluva job. Thanks!!

+1
That's part of why this forum is top notch. Thanks!

[JohnR]

Both sides are fast out of the starting gate. Lots of layoffs, then the ATT, assault weapons ban, new "business czar" position discussed, the fiscal cliff (O's way or the highway), all in less than a week. Buckle up, it's gonna be a rough ride and the destination isn't anyplace we want to go.

[JERRY]

obama is said to be not compromizing on raising taxes and ties them to the fiscal cliff......http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/09/obama-holds-firm-to-tax-hikes-as-invites-hill-leaders-to-talks-on-fiscal-cliff/....in other words, small business owners need to grab their ankles.

[CrabbyAzz]

obama is said to be not compromizing on raising taxes and ties them to the fiscal cliff......http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/09/obama-holds-firm-to-tax-hikes-as-invites-hill-leaders-to-talks-on-fiscal-cliff/....in other words, small business owners need to grab their ankles.

FYI - Nothing like the facts..
First, even under the GOP’s own flawed definition of small business, approximately 97% of taxpayers with small business income would be completely unaffected by the President’s plan: According to estimates by Tax Policy Center, about 97% of taxpayers reporting business income would not be impacted by the President’s tax proposals -- which only affect those earning over $250,000. This has been confirmed by the independent Congressional Research Service, which concluded that “only a small fraction of businesses will be affected [by allowing the temporary income tax cuts to expire for people earning over $250,000 a year], around 2% to 3%.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/09/extending-middle-class-tax-cuts-98-americans-and-97-small-businesses

[JERRY]

FYI - Nothing like the facts..
First, even under the GOP’s own flawed definition of small business, approximately 97% of taxpayers with small business income would be completely unaffected by the President’s plan: According to estimates by Tax Policy Center, about 97% of taxpayers reporting business income would not be impacted by the President’s tax proposals -- which only affect those earning over $250,000. This has been confirmed by the independent Congressional Research Service, which concluded that “only a small fraction of businesses will be affected [by allowing the temporary income tax cuts to expire for people earning over $250,000 a year], around 2% to 3%.”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/09/extending-middle-class-tax-cuts-98-americans-and-97-small-businesses


are those numbers (250K) based on gross or after overhead, taxes, payroll et cetera.....? im curious, as many small businesses tend to make one million dollars in a year but after paying employees, lease on the building, taxes, insurance et cetera the small business owner takes home less than 250K...so what number are they using as the basis?

[yqtszhj]

it doesn't matter because we are all in trouble anyway unless they stop spending, WHICH THEY WON'T, because they will never take in enough taxes or grow the economy enough to pay for all the votes that they are buying through entitlements and give aways. AND THE MILITARY IS NOT THE PLACE TO CUT SPENDING!!!!!!

We're screwed. No body wants to accept this fact. :banplease:

Oh, to keep this gun related, stock up on ammo and guns for survival when we go back to horse and buggy days.

[JERRY]

it doesn't matter because we are all in trouble anyway unless they stop spending, WHICH THEY WON'T, because they will never take in enough taxes or grow the economy enough to pay for all the votes that they are buying through entitlements and give aways. AND THE MILITARY IS NOT THE PLACE TO CUT SPENDING!!!!!!

We're screwed. No body wants to accept this fact. :banplease:

Oh, to keep this gun related, stock up on ammo and guns for survival when we go back to horse and buggy days.

America really needs to fall off the fiscal cliff in January so folks can see what they voted for.

[CrabbyAzz]

America really needs to fall off the fiscal cliff in January so folks can see what they voted for.

That would be bad for the repubs since polling indicated that even 60% of republicans believe that the 1% need to pay more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-10/cain-pulls-even-with-romney-on-economy-for-republican-supporters-in-poll.html

[yqtszhj]

It would be bad for both which would be a good thing. The government has no self control and the voters won't quit voting themselves gifts.

Republicans and Democrats are both guilty and we let them get away with it.

[gm412]

The big affect in my work (computer web programming) is no more full time jobs. Everything is now short term contract. My personnel taxes (California) are going up 12,000 dollars this next year. I am cutting expenses. Starting with anyone I think voted for the Democrats.

Finally my wife decided to let us leave California. So I checked into selling our houses. The real estate lady told me to sell before January because Obama tax set in and I have to pay 3.8% tax to sell my house. I can't be ready that fast.

[JERRY]

That would be bad for the repubs since polling indicated that even 60% of republicans believe that the 1% need to pay more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-10/cain-pulls-even-with-romney-on-economy-for-republican-supporters-in-poll.html


thats not bad for America, just the politicians who believe so.

can you clarify the 250K limit you support from obama? id like to know if its take home pay or total earned.....

[Chief Joseph]

Well, after some consultation and clarification, this one is once again open for discussion.
Regards,
Greg

Thank you,
I wasn't trying to offend. Sorry.

[muggsy]

I don't consider myself quick on the trigger, but I am up late at night. Thanks for making everything copacetic:)
Regards,
Greg

Thanks for taking my post in the same vain as it was given. We all need to lighten up. I hope that everyone understands that I wasn't picking on you. Just having a little fun. Feel free to take a swipe at me any time you wish. :)

[muggsy]

thats not bad for America, just the politicians who believe so.

can you clarify the 250K limit you support from obama? id like to know if its take home pay or total earned.....

Jerry, the problem with taxing the rich in the manner that the democrats propose is that not all of those who will be taxed are anywhere near rich. The democrats want to tax capital gains. Anyone who has a 401K, a mutual fund or dabbles in the stock market has to pay taxes on capital gains. What the 60% approval on taxing the rich shows is the general ignorance of the electorate. Bringing the rich down doesn't bring the poor up. Bringing the Rich down brings everyone down. You see it's the rich who hire the poor. Those making over $250,000 per year put a roof over your head, shoes on your feet, clothes on your back and food in your belly. Reelecting a socialist who failed to come through on 90% of his campaign promises shows the stupidity of the electorate.

[JERRY]

muggsy, youre preaching to the chior. i have the misfortune of knowing what will happen the next four years.

[JohnR]

I can't figure out why politicians can't just say, "Lowering tax rates encourages more economic activity and historically has resulted in increased tax revenue." It's so simple. They only seem able to mutter the vague and misleading, "Raise taxes" meme, without defining what that means. Raise tax rates? Raise tax revenues? Those are opposites. And they are both missing the more important point that we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

We are truly run by an idiocracy.

[Chief Joseph]

I can't figure out why politicians can't just say, "Lowering tax rates encourages more economic activity and historically has resulted in increased tax revenue." It's so simple. They only seem able to mutter the vague and misleading, "Raise taxes" meme, without defining what that means. Raise tax rates? Raise tax revenues? Those are opposites. And they are both missing the more important point that we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

We are truly run by an idiocracy.

nobama and his crony democRATS know this. Their goal is not the growth of America, it's the reducing America to the level of other nations. What ignorant voters refuse to see is this is about sticking it to Americans. I'm feeling better knowing this is going to cause way more pain to those who think they're going to get free wealth from the rich.

Over the last year or so, my family has increased our consumption on the assumption that Americans would wake up and toss out this loser, especially after all his failures. Now we're going to tighten up and reduce. I've got a feeling many were loosening up believing the socialist in chief was done. I think a lot of people are going to reverse their habits. This is going to hurt the poor and young more than anyone. I can't think of anyone who deserves it more.

My niece has been looking for work for a year. Was telling us how relieved she was nobama was reelected. I just told her, "good luck on that job search, maybe in 4 years you won't be so gullible and ignorant". Sad part is, I could see the confusion in her eyes. I doubt she'll ever get a clue.

[RedRyder]

Two quick points. First, if these companies had announced the layoffs prior to the election, we just may have had a different outcome. Shame on them for doing it now.

Second, doesn't anyone remember the Investment Tax Credit from the 80's. Companies got tax credits for retooling plants, updating their computer infrastructure, buying capital equipment for fleets, etc. What this did was get companies spending on capital goods and that in turn puts companies supplying those goods to work building them. It sure got us out of the doldrums of the 70's. Companies are reported to be cash rich at this time since they don't know how the economy is shaping up but an ITC would give them reason to spend and that's what's needed.

Just my humble opinion.

[muggsy]

Two quick points. First, if these companies had announced the layoffs prior to the election, we just may have had a different outcome. Shame on them for doing it now.

Second, doesn't anyone remember the Investment Tax Credit from the 80's. Companies got tax credits for retooling plants, updating their computer infrastructure, buying capital equipment for fleets, etc. What this did was get companies spending on capital goods and that in turn puts companies supplying those goods to work building them. It sure got us out of the doldrums of the 70's. Companies are reported to be cash rich at this time since they don't know how the economy is shaping up but an ITC would give them reason to spend and that's what's needed.

Just my humble opinion.

The companies didn't need to lay people off before the election. They are laying people off, because of the outcome of the election. If Obama goes forward with his, and I use this term loosely, "economic plan" it will force companies to lay people off, or file for Chapter 11. Just my humble opinion. To those of you who have never run a business, you have to make a profit to employ people unless you run a government.

[JERRY]

the quicker we hit the bottom the quicker we can start going back up. we need to fall off the fiscal lciff in january so people can see who and what they voted for.

[JohnR]

nobama and his crony democRATS know this. Their goal is not the growth of America, it's the reducing America to the level of other nations.
Oh, definitely. But when Repukelicans act like they don't know it, that tells me the party has left us. The GOP has ceased to represent Conservatism. I may follow Boortz and get their name off my voter registration card. Not sure if I want to join the party of drug legalizers and Ron Paul nutjobs though :D

[Tinman507]

I sent my voter registration Wednesday to change from R to unaffiliated.
The R party blew it and there's no hope in sight for someone to step up.
Now they need to get rid of Boehner as Speaker and put Ryan up there.

[ltxi]

I sent my voter registration Wednesday to change from R to unaffiliated.
The R party blew it and there's no hope in sight for someone to step up.
Now they need to get rid of Boehner as Speaker and put Ryan up there.

That's an interesting thought.

[jocko]

I sent my voter registration Wednesday to change from R to unaffiliated.
The R party blew it and there's no hope in sight for someone to step up.
Now they need to get rid of Boehner as Speaker and put Ryan up there.

Indiana, u have to pick aparty at leastin the priaries in order to vote. non affliated will get u naddain the primaries. Normally in my county, it isthe primaries that is the most important. I tend to vote more democrat in our primaries for our couty is about 90% demo's and most are good friends of mine andI can'thelp um if I vote repoblican in the primaries for NO ONE RUNS.

Doesn't really bother me what party I am registered under, When election time comes if both parties have a candidate, I vote for the person I feel is the best, be it demo or rep.

[JohnR]

What if we registered as Democrats. Then really mess with the party from the inside. Cubans did that (not that they had party choices, just Communist or none). Turn it back into the party of JFK, fighting commies and lowering tax rates. Or, vote for the most useless Dems in the primary to water it down.

A box of ammo says the libs did that to the GOP.

[jocko]

That would be bad for the repubs since polling indicated that even 60% of republicans believe that the 1% need to pay more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-10/cain-pulls-even-with-romney-on-economy-for-republican-supporters-in-poll.html

when ur talking abouty 47% who don't do nuttin, then really only 13% feel that way.Hell man u outta know u can twist a survey any fokking way u want to.

even Harry Reed now is starting to talk about taxing the super rich IMO sending a signal that the 200K guy is not in that class at all . which he definitely is not. And lets get serious, WHAT THE FOKK IS ALITTLE MORE.

1% 3% 30% 50%. These super rich or so called rich that make over 200K even are all gonna get caught in obama obamacare tax of 3.8% of investment ncome (which means ur damn home now to) of over 200K or 250K if married.

Now we want to add even more to the super rich. WTF. when do we stop, When do we stop with government speniding like there is no tomorrow.

In one county where Apple is located besides the federal income tax a person pays, he now pays almost 9% california income tax and then on top of that if you live in that county where apple is located u will pay anb additional 8+% county income tax, add all this up and u could very well be over 60% of ur income in taxes. and yet the 47% who pay nuttin want to reap the gold from the super rich.

Hell ask any person who doesn't work and gets welfare, or unemplopyment etc if the rich should pay more, What the hell do u think he is gonna say. What the hell do u think 99% are gonna say. Fokk it doesnt effect them so why not. Those surveys suck, they always have. Change the tax code, don't punish anyone for takeing the full advantage of the tax laws, be they rich or 200K people. damn we read of people who don't work even getting a damn tax refund. IMO they did no more than the rich are doing, they are abiding by the tax laws.

I say bull s!t on the tax the rich ALITTLE MORE. come up with a foking percent so we can see what kind of a person is saying that. U all are wise enough to know that ALITTLE MORE ain't gonna make a dent in our debt until the government cuts back ALOT

I ain't super rich, but I am above that 200K part easily, but I worked my fokking ass off for 40+ years to get that way and if I have to pay more, then can I at least ask the 47% who pay nutting to start paying sumpin. and that middle percetntage people who are not in that top 5% classification to pay alittle more to. or is that asking to much.

U keep putting bird seed in a feeder and they will bring their frineds tomorrow and more friends the next day and very soon they get totaly dependandt on that feeder and then u stop feeding the birds and they turn on u and sh!t all over your back porch and windows. Open ur eyes, look at Greece and Spain

\U will never convince me that there are not millions of wealthy democrats that have to be saying WTF are the democrats trying to do to us.

This country is not JUST ALITTLE IN DEBT, we are deep in debt and this taxing the rich ALITTLE MORE is just a political ploy that if it happens will do zilch towards our debt problems. But it surely will increase the hostility of class warefare, which IMO Obama has nurtured very well to the 95% of the people in this country who are not considered in that super rich classification, so hell why not stick it in the super rich's ass one more time. It doesn't effect me any. REMEMBER NIMBY

Hell just look at some of the business that willgo to part time emplyees so they don't have to pay any health care penalty or privide health care. Its a loop hole that the obama people forgot to close and now business will take advantage of it IF THEY SO DESIRE. :popcorn:

[yqtszhj]

Well said Jocko. You hit the nail on the head and drove it home with one hit.

[OldLincoln]

Well, seems like nobody wants to face the music on spending. They say it must all come out of "entitlements". I understand the word, but fail to grasp the meaning. I guess they consider all those receiving payments from their retirement plans and 401K's entitlements also. I paid into Social Security for over 50 years and my income from it is proportional to what I paid in, much like my dad did. I paid into Medicare ever since it started and receive Medicare benefits. So I guess that puts me right down there with all the illegals receiving free education that they didn't pay into. Free medical that they didn't pay into, and so forth.

I admit I do feel entitled to received according to the rules from which I paid. I also pay into a medical/dental/vision plan so should I not receive the benefits from that plan either?

Well how about we start by stopping the $52.7B (2010 numbers) we pay out in foreign aid? How about we close down all bases on foreign soil and bring our military home. That would cover another $100B easily for $150B annually, or in Obama speak $1.5 TRILLION over the next decade. And that's without cutting any domestic spending, although much of that would follow without all the overseas contractors and materials supporting foreign deployment. Hey, just thought of how much fuel we burn flying back and forth across the oceans that could be saved. Good for the environment and our oil reserves too.

Then we can look at out government costs of doing business. Maybe don't redecorate all those offices and conference room each years and pass over a few "investigative missions" to foreign resorts that we pay for now. If we no longer have business there we shouldn't require all that difficulty of our senior administration personnel. There's another several hundred million here and there.

There are so many way out of this "fiscal cliff" that it makes our situation look like we are stuck in a paper bag, not a solid box with the lid nailed shut.

[jocko]

but once again ur talking to most of the people here who paid into sumpin andcertanlly should expect to get it back.

Remember Socia lSecurity when it started would never be taxable--duh, fokkthat promise. Now some of the demo's even are saying that the super rich should not get any social security that they paid into all their workig years under duress even, because they now don't need it. \Duh fokk that sh!t to

But wait how about this. We had two damn years of payroll tax holidays,which amounted to my son of about 20 bucks a week on his paycheck or a grand a year, but it came out of his 2% Social security tax deduction from his paycheck. Duh , did this make sense. Now the damn politicians is say now if we don't address this payroll tax holiday they workers will have a 2% addition tax on him. Duh: fokk that logic.

the employee never ask for that 2% taken away from his SS saving in the first place, let alone ddi most even notice the $20 additional on their paycheck, which by the way was federal taxed also. Pure unadulterate bull sh!t on the demo's side and now they are in a squueze to try to keep that payroll tax holiday alive, instead of keeping the SS fund FUNDED.

while sittingin a waitingroomoneday in Huntswville,Alabama asmy doctor friend wasin a serious motorcycle accident (he died 5 weeks later there). anyway on the wall was a sign that basically said. If u are pregnant and walk in here and have noinsurance u willnot be denied medical care in any way shape or form.

Yet the first thing this hujtsvillehospital wanted to know form us birders who was with the doctor, was doe she have insurance??/Can u privide his companies name??? Oh yest ehy worke don him but put a lein on his property after he died until the bill was paid to their sartisfaction.

IMO this scenairo provides two complete different ENTITLEMENTS. One is paiud for and the other is "JUST EXPECTED".

[muggsy]

The best that any of us can do is to vote for the most conservative candidates and to boycott everything that profits the liberals.

[mr surveyor]

the first targets, in my opinion, are abc, nbc, cbs, msnbc, cnn, and any of the more popular (relatively speaking) bird cage lining wastes of newsprint paper outlets. That's the number one targets for an all out boycott. When they start losing billions per year in advertising, they will either change their narrowly focused energies or dry up and blow away.

I haven't watched network programming (except for baseball) in over 20 years, and from what I hear, haven't missed a damned thing. I don't support the hollywood scum at the movies either. Let em all rot in their own litter boxes.

[JERRY]

the problem is the same as being a one party voter.

you can not be conservative on everything nor liberal on everything and win.

fiscal conservative, yes, personal liberal yes......to say rein in the federal government is nice but then to say pregnancy from rape is a god send is stupid.

most people want the federal government to leave them the hell alone in their personal lives.

[jocko]

yup Murdock paid that price in Indiana with his stupid ass statement. Here he beat Richard Luger in the primaries and **** lugar was senator I think even when I was born and Murdock beat him and then his fokking ass over road his mouth and his one statement beat him.
Are we any real different when it comes to a politician who is pro gun or anti gun???

PS. cook county, Illinois voted for a $25 per gun tax on all sales. Oh yes and then we wonder why Illinois is in such dire condition. HUMM what party is in cntrol there. HUMM what two past govoners of Illinois have their mailing address to a FEDERAL PRISON. Oh yea, I want my grandkids to grow up and be a real democrate:eek: or better yet a freeking liberal democrate like
Crabby Ass..

or to have my son someday in a fokking fox hole with 5 gays and 300 muslim terrorists are attacking them and my son says, I think we done guys, we best kiss our asses good by and the other 5 in the fox hole SMILE.

Oh yes, I wanna be a democrat!!

[JohnR]

Liberal news corps go bankrupt, Obama will bail them out with money China got from Wal Mart.

[CrabbyAzz]

the problem is the same as being a one party voter.

you can not be conservative on everything nor liberal on everything and win.

fiscal conservative, yes, personal liberal yes......to say rein in the federal government is nice but then to say pregnancy from rape is a god send is stupid.

most people want the federal government to leave them the hell alone in their personal lives.

Yes !

[CrabbyAzz]

the first targets, in my opinion, are abc, nbc, cbs, msnbc, cnn, and any of the more popular (relatively speaking) bird cage lining wastes of newsprint paper outlets. That's the number one targets for an all out boycott. When they start losing billions per year in advertising, they will either change their narrowly focused energies or dry up and blow away.

I haven't watched network programming (except for baseball) in over 20 years, and from what I hear, haven't missed a damned thing. I don't support the hollywood scum at the movies either. Let em all rot in their own litter boxes.

Why would you boycott those news sources when it's now obvious that Fox has been blowing smoke up every ones keysters.

[jocko]

oh my!!!

[Tinman507]

Yup, nuttin to see here in Benghazi, move along. Nuttin going on here delaying Petraeus's resignation, move along. More people voting than are living, move along. nuttin to see here. It's all good...THE ONE was re-elected.
Sleep well tonight, your Government is on Guard.

[jocko]

aw come in Tinman, those other NEWS media places must have felt that none of those was news worthy. I mean wow, Chris Matthews, isn't he sumpin to look up to.

[Tinman507]

Best part of Chris Matthews ran down his mother's leg. How about THAT for a tingle up your thigh?

[jocko]

u mean he really has a mom???

I mean also, do u really think Petraus resigned over this gal??? for Morally he thought it was wrong after being married for 37 years. If there ain't some serious smell to his sh!t over this, I'm a monkey's uncle. course we will never know for the liberal media will deem this totally unnews worthy,

Sure didn't hurt ol SMOKIN BILLY's reputation that much. and he looked us all in the eye and told us he didn't have sex with that woman and he even if u rememberhad s smile onhis face when he told us that, but what we didn't know until now was that ol Monica was under the podium, smokin a Macando. I might be off on that brand though:eek:

[JFootin]

u mean he really has a mom???:eek:

No, he was a butt baby.

[CrabbyAzz]

No, he was a butt baby.

I never heard that before !!!

[jocko]

I never heard that before !!!

thats becasue u don't watch FOX NEWS:D

[yqtszhj]

Want to talk about news media blowing smoke, that would be MSNBC for sure and I think it's from that weed just legalized in WA and CO or some crack, oh that's a good one crack smoke up the crack, LOL.

[muggsy]

the first targets, in my opinion, are abc, nbc, cbs, msnbc, cnn, and any of the more popular (relatively speaking) bird cage lining wastes of newsprint paper outlets. That's the number one targets for an all out boycott. When they start losing billions per year in advertising, they will either change their narrowly focused energies or dry up and blow away.

I haven't watched network programming (except for baseball) in over 20 years, and from what I hear, haven't missed a damned thing. I don't support the hollywood scum at the movies either. Let em all rot in their own litter boxes.

+1 I don't even watch the sports programming.

[muggsy]

the problem is the same as being a one party voter.

you can not be conservative on everything nor liberal on everything and win.

fiscal conservative, yes, personal liberal yes......to say rein in the federal government is nice but then to say pregnancy from rape is a god send is stupid.

most people want the federal government to leave them the hell alone in their personal lives.

So what you're saying is that we should give up our conservative principles just to get elected. Well then, I support legalizing hard drugs, gay marriage, taxing the rich increasing the welfare state and banning guns. Wait a minute, now I sound just like a liberal democrat. Confusing isn't it?

[mr surveyor]

just my not so humble opinion, but I believe that any person that thinks one can seperate their religious convictions, morals and principles from their political views, has little or no religious convictions, morals or principles. Those traits are at the very core of one's existence.


surv