Should I replace my bedside table gun? [Archive]

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Scoundrel

11-10-2012, 12:07 AM

Right now, my bedside table gun is the Taurus Judge revolver, loaded with 000 buckshot, and with a small container of 45 LC standing by for reloads.

But, I just ordered up a Walther PPQ and a Ti-RANT 9mm suppressor.

So here's the thing: Would a suppressed 9mm with 4 magazines (2x15rd, 2x17rd) be a better bedside table gun than the Taurus Judge?

I'm thinking in terms of noise, muzzle flash, and capacity.

The Judge is going to deafen me and blind me with the first shot, and I only get 5 before it's reload time.

The suppressed 9mm will not deafen me, and the muzzle flash will be greatly reduce if not eliminated altogether, and I'll have 18 rounds in the first magazine.

What do you think? Is it time to "hang up" the Judge?

I have a good 8 months or so to think that over while I wait for the NFA paperwork.

Planedude

11-10-2012, 05:27 AM

I shot five thru a Judge, in the dark, using the PDX loading from Winchester.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx

Flash was not bad but, it was loud and proud...

If you have the average BG busting in a window to steal your TV at 2am, then one shot of anything will send him running.
If the Ninjas are there just to get you, then you'll need every round in all your mags to defeat them...:eek:

JohnR

11-10-2012, 05:59 AM

Has anyone shot a 9mm with suppressor and without hearing protection? How was the noise level?

JERRY

11-10-2012, 06:33 AM

if a service caliber round is used and there is no problems with the shooter using the platforms, more amo on tap is always better.

speaking from experience, when your adrendalin is up like it will be in a home invasion your body will shut down certain things.....this is where tunnel vision comes from, loss of fine motor skills, and tunnel hearing for lack of a better term.

you have to train to fight through the ones you can such as tunnel vision, fine motor skills diminish in a blink when SHTF....

what i said here depends greatly on the individual and the mind set and level of training.

while not in the same situatiuon, have you ever hunted? high powered rifle 3 feet in front of you aiming at a 10 point buck at 150 yards....your heart is racing, you have to try to control your erratic breathing......BOOM! you fired a round and you know what?, you can still hear, in fact you dont even have a ringing in your ears.....your hands shake a little after words because of the adrenalin dump, .....again, the extent of all that depends on the individual, experience, old hat......

CrabbyAzz

11-10-2012, 06:37 AM

I would go with the 9mm, the judge will make a mess of your house.

jdavis

11-10-2012, 06:58 AM

From personal experience I can tell you that in a home invasion situation muzzle flash and noise are the last things that should concern you. IMHO, you will be taking a step in reverse by going with the 9mm. A shotshell will give you the advantage of multiple projectiles to compensate for shattered nerves and resulting poor aim. Unless you have nerves of steel and are an accomplished marksman in low light conditions, your Taurus Judge is your best friend.

Barth

11-10-2012, 07:13 AM

PattayaPistol

11-10-2012, 07:16 AM

I like the idea of both guns by the bedside. Personally I keep a high capacity 9mm and a 12 ga shotgun beside the bed (plus the wife's 9mm on her side of the bed). The Judge would be your version of the shotgun. I see no reason to restrict yourself to 1 gun.

Cheers
PP

jeepster09

11-10-2012, 07:28 AM

Real World.....1 or 2 rounds should be enough, T.V. World 5 or 6 mag reloads MIGHT do it....:popcorn:

PattayaPistol

11-10-2012, 07:37 AM

Real World.....1 or 2 rounds should be enough, T.V. World 5 or 6 mag reloads MIGHT do it....:popcorn:
I agree with you, but if you have the guns, why not keep them available? I have 2 dogs so I could just rely on them, but as the guns are already in the house, then by the bed at night is a comfortable feeling.

PP

joshh

11-10-2012, 07:41 AM

my "nightstand" is a glock22 .40 with 15 rounds. i would prefer a pistol over a revolver any day because of the capacity. Also, the lethality of the buck shot from such a short barrel makes me nervous: sure, you are probably going to hit them, but they are probably going to testify against you at an insurance hearing lol. My .02 is to go with the pistol with some proper defense rounds and as may of em that will fit.

Barth

11-10-2012, 08:10 AM

I never heard of anyone after a gunfight saying
"Damn I had too much ammo!"
or
"I wish I just had less guns available to me!"

Hopefully you never need to fire a shot.
Hopefully just a few rounds will get the job done.
Hopefully you live to tell the tale.

Quietly, in terms of news coverage,
there has been house invasions with multiple armed attackers.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

jeepster09

11-10-2012, 08:53 AM

I agree with you, but if you have the guns, why not keep them available? I have 2 dogs so I could just rely on them, but as the guns are already in the house, then by the bed at night is a comfortable feeling.

PP

I agree with that, if you have the guns already. I also don't feel a person needs to carry several extra mags when carrying their pistol. The weight just bogs you down.....and in "realville" you just aint gonna need all the re-loads.....where does one draw the line? :confused: also carry a Taser? Wear a vest...:53:

JFootin

11-10-2012, 08:55 AM

JFootin

11-10-2012, 08:57 AM

I just ordered me up a Walther PPQ. Great minds think alike! :D

pudge

11-10-2012, 09:04 AM

I just read a review of the S&W Governor revolver written by Charles Petty, a reviewer of some reputation. I have found his reviews to be factual and worthy of consideration. He tested the revolver with the three rounds that can be fired in it, .410 bore shotshells, .45 LC, and .45 ACP.

He fired Winchester rounds containing three 000 Buck pellets and Federal and Remington rounds containing four 000 buck pellets. These are purpose built for the Judge and Governor type handguns. He fired patterns of each at 5, 10, and 15 yards. The Winchester load showed spreads of 5.5", 10.5", and 23" at those distances. Worse, at the 15 yard range, only two of the three pellets struck the humanoid sized target!. The Remington round scored spreads of 2.5", 5.0', and 13.0" at those distances, and the Federal round scored 1.5", 3.0", and 4.75". He also fired the Winchester PDX1 round with the three Defense Discs loaded on top of 12 BB sized shot. The three discs struck the target in spreads very slightly larger than the spread shown for the Remington round, but "few" of the BB shot hit the humanoid target. He stated based on his tests that he would not expect good results with the shot shells at more than 10 yards with any of the shotshells except the Federal. Getting results this good requires center hits with the pattern in any case.

Shotguns can be devastating, if fired well, but the .410 bore is NOT a hammer! If I were interested in one of these guns for personal defense (I am not!), I would definitely go to the trouble of putting up some paper and firing it at different distances to see for myself what to expect before I trusted my life with the rounds.
It is true that any shot fired in a home protection situation will likely discourage further interest, unless of course the predator is drugged and insensitive to pain and fright. That's when you need the hammer!! And only good hits count ... This gun could be OK for defense purposes if you can live with the severe range limitation for effective use of the shotshells.

Scoundrel

11-10-2012, 11:24 AM

Wow, so many good responses! Where to start? At the top, I guess.

Has anyone shot a 9mm with suppressor and without hearing protection? How was the noise level?

I am keenly interested in the answer to this question. There are YouTube videos, of course, but those fail to convey the sound properly. The microphones of the cameras tend to normalize loud noises. I'll go search for this answer over at silencertalk.com.

when your adrendalin is up like it will be in a home invasion your body will shut down certain things.....this is where tunnel vision comes from, loss of fine motor skills, and tunnel hearing

Thank you for the reminder about these factors, which were involved in my original decision to use the Judge. It's big, it has no controls that need to be twiddled, and its action is simple.

And being nickel-plated and huge (so it is visible in low light), might be enough to scare off an invader just by it being pointed at them.

Real World.....1 or 2 rounds should be enough, T.V. World 5 or 6 mag reloads MIGHT do it....:popcorn:

I base all of my tactical strategeries on the house scene in the movie Grosse Pointe Blank, myself. Dunno why you say that's not a good training platform. :)

you are probably going to hit them, but they are probably going to testify against you at an insurance hearing

I agree with you, but I can't live my life worried about whether someone's going to sue me after I legally defend myself and my household. I'm gonna do what is right for my household, and they're gonna do what they're gonna do, and I just have to hope that the jury sees it my way.

I never heard of anyone after a gunfight saying
"Damn I had too much ammo!"
or
"I wish I just had less guns available to me!"

Hopefully you never need to fire a shot.
Hopefully just a few rounds will get the job done.
Hopefully you live to tell the tale.

Quietly, in terms of news coverage,
there has been house invasions with multiple armed attackers.
That's all I'm going to say about that.

This, and what a few others said about having more than one gun up there, is a good point. There is room in the nightstand for two guns, and if I wake up and hear multiple voices working together to ransack my house, I can select the quieter gun with higher capacity to start with (if my mind is working properly to prevent me from just grabbing whichever one I can get my hand around first).

This gun could be OK for defense purposes if you can live with the severe range limitation for effective use of the shotshells.

I have murdered a few paper targets with my Judge. Internet research indicates that there is a wide variance of spread pattern with these Judges. My particular one, loaded with Federal 4-pellet 000 buck, fired at 7 yards, produces a more or less vertical spread of about 5 inches. This remains consistent at 10 yards (spreads a bit more, still vertical). I stopped testing there, because that is the expected range for a home defense situation and I was satisfied with the results.

I think I'll end up keeping both of them in the nightstand. That end of the house was kind of underpowered anyway.

Bawanna

11-10-2012, 11:32 AM

I've fired our dept HK MP5 Navy numerous times and it's not bothersome to the ears at all. No crack at all, probably not much more than a mid range 22.

I've experienced the same results with my sons Governor. The 4 to 5 inch vertical string and it was quite accurate.
He bought some rounds for it that had disc and junks for lack of a better word and they hit well and did nasty things to the target.
Didn't shoot many of those as they are bloody expensive.

I've not shot a Judge to compare the two but the Governor shoots real nice, has a very good trigger.
45acp is of course a pain in the back side at range loading and unloading moon clips or half clips and with the long cylinder there is a lot of bullet jump but it was plenty accurate.

If I had it I'd mostly shoot 45 Colt. But for nightstand duty something in 410 would be the ticket.

ltxi

11-10-2012, 04:07 PM

Long time nightstand gun is a 3" Smith Model 13. Wife's is the stainless version, a 3" M65.

One thing I, personally and at this point in life, would never consider for a roused out of sleep, first access arm is a short pull trigger anything. Not even those with a manual safety. Muscle memory can be not a friend coming out of deep sleep.

jocko

11-10-2012, 04:30 PM

mightjust be me but I thikthe judge or govoner would be an ideal house gun, 5 shots of 410 buck in ahome need not worry about 15 yards stuff. Ifthebang doesn't scarethe crapolaout of anintuder surely in 5 shots some buck is gonnafind it home, probably far better than one 45 long colt at a time being shot in maybe poor light situation or a nervous shooter to.

Anutter reasonwhy shotguns are so good for home use. U DON'T HAVE TO BE RIGHTON TARGET. CLOSE IS GOODin this situation..

someday soon I am gonnaown one of those 410 wheel guns,but for me it willbe the 3"version.

DeaconKC

11-10-2012, 05:41 PM

First off, yes, your senses do shutter somewhat during shooting, but you WILL still get the damage to your ears. I know, I have it. While I am a fan of big bore revolvers, your idea of a suppressed 9mm sounds like a fine idea.

Scoundrel

11-10-2012, 05:48 PM

I hope to fire less than 15 rounds of anything bigger than a .22lr without hearing protection in my entire lifetime, and never more than 5 in one go. Hopefully.

I'll pop the occasional 22 without hearing protection, just for comparison, but not more than a round or two.

How do cops avoid permanent hearing damage?
And the military?

PattayaPistol

11-10-2012, 05:56 PM

Muscle memory can be not a friend coming out of deep sleep.

Itxi, I am so jealous. A deep sleep for me is that 20 minutes on the couch in front of the TV.

PP

ltxi

11-10-2012, 06:03 PM

Itxi, I am so jealous. A deep sleep for me is that 20 minutes on the couch in front of the TV.

PP

One of the perks of laid back, semi-retired old age. :cool:

jocko

11-10-2012, 06:08 PM

One of the perks of laid back, semi-retired old age. At least in my case. :cool:

being retired and getting old is not the end of the world, it was 66 out today and I road my harl;ey over 200 miles and yes life is good... Just sayin

ltxi

11-10-2012, 06:13 PM

being retired and getting old is not the end of the world, it was 66 out today and I road my harl;ey over 200 miles and yes life is good... Just sayin

Damn right it ain't the end of the world. If anyone had tried to tell me 50 years ago that age 70 would be this cool I woulda had to off them for perceived terminal stupidity.

jocko

11-10-2012, 06:19 PM

well I am only 69, so if ur 70, yup ur fokking old!!!! Just sayin

oh by the way my hat is off to you also as a NRA benefactor..:popcorn:

ltxi

11-10-2012, 06:34 PM

We're the same age. I claim 70 because I'm within a couple three months and it sounds cooler than 69. No dumb ass sex stuff jokes and my "This Is What 70 Looks Like -- Get Over It" t-shirt is a real hit at the grocery store on senior citizen's day.

Thanks for the compliment on the NRA Benefactor thingy. Working on bumping wife's membership level up now.

jocko

11-10-2012, 06:42 PM

I really think my saddest day for me will be when I have to give upRidng My Harley Davidson. I know that sonds b-s ee...

ltxi

11-10-2012, 06:54 PM

Nope....I'm seriously with ya' on that. We all have our getting older look back and emotional sticking points.

Long time airplane driver, racer, and bike rider here who no longer does any of those, by choice. But the day I have to turn in my gp car keys is the day I'm done...also by choice.

pudge

11-11-2012, 08:11 PM

I really think my saddest day for me will be when I have to give upRidng My Harley Davidson. I know that sonds b-s ee...

Well jocko, I ain't quite as old as you, but close enough for hand grenades and horseshoes! I too do not look forward to the day when I have to quit riding. I have "graduated" to three wheels these days because of serious back issues (compression fracture and reinjured ... too soon old and too late smart!). Let me tell ya that three wheels ain't bad. You gotta make up your mind to it, but it ain't bad at all. Still riding, still have the wind in yer face, still get wet and freeze yer butt off once in a while, and still taste bug guts on occasion. I love it!

And I see quite a few folks ridin' them new machines built by HD these days with three wheels on the ground. Look good, sound good, and are good for the folks who prefer the HD brand. I'm tellin' ya that three wheels can and will extend the days a feller can ride safely and long days. And mine ain't bad for goin' down to the post office to get my mail either!!! No worries about gravel or unlevel parking lots, etc. Ride on, Sir, and ride safe!