The small arms treaty is back!!

[AIRret]

I can't say that I'm surprised.
If ANYONE had any doubts about Obummer's stance on gun control this should
put it to rest!

Talk to you folks latter, I'm headed to a gun show.

Read the actual article from the link below:
The Full Article Here: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE59E0Q920091015


U.S. reverses stance on treaty to regulate arms trade

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto.

The decision, announced in a statement released by the U.S. State Department, overturns the position of former President George W. Bush's administration, which had opposed such a treaty on the grounds that national controls were better.

On Wednesday Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to Ban All Firearms in the United States . The Obama administration intends to force gun control and a complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. By signing international treaties on gun control, the Obama administration can use the US State Department to bypass the normal legislative process in Congress Once the US Government signs these international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to those gun laws created by foreign governments. These are laws that have been developed and promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and individuals such as George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are designed and intended to lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms.

The Obama administration is attempting to use tactics and methods of gun control that will inflict major damage to our 2nd Amendment before US citizens even understand what has happened. Obama can appear before the public and tell them that he does not intend to pursue any legislation (in the United States) that will lead to new gun control laws, while cloaked in secrecy, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is committing the US to international treaties and foreign gun control laws. Does that mean Obama is telling the truth? What it means is that there will be no publicized gun control debates in the media or votes in Congress. We will wake up one morning and find that the United States has signed a treaty that prohibits firearm and ammunition manufacturers from selling to the public. We will wake up another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that prohibits any transfer of firearm ownership. And then, we will wake up yet another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that requires US citizens to deliver any firearm they own to the local government collection and destruction center or face imprisonment.

This is not a joke nor a false warning. As sure as government health care will be forced on us by the Obama administration through whatever means necessary, so will gun control.

Please forward this message to others who may be concerned about the direction in which our country is headed.

We are being led like a lamb to the slaughter (Socialism/Dictatorship).
DON'T KEEP THIS - SEND IT OUT TO YOUR LIST

[OldLincoln]

Sure thought the congress has to ratify treaties. Am I wrong?

[wyntrout]

Dear Ruler will probably issue an Executive Order for it to be enforced until Congress gets off its a$$ and votes AGAINST it.

The Department of Homeland in-Security and FEMA Youth Corps, along with other Obama Corps will be only too happy to enthusiastically start gun confiscation. Who can stand up to the knock in the middle of the night... or the doors crashing open with hordes of jack-booted bully boys... worse than the NOLA Police during Katrina??

Wynn:(

[Ikeo74]

I don't think any Government, Foreign or Domestic, is strong enough to disarm the American Public. It is just not going to happen. ;)

[7shot]

I don't think any Government, Foreign or Domestic, is strong enough to disarm the Americal Public. It is just not going to happen. ;)

I agree with Ikeo74...Obumstead might pull off an in-the-future gun ban of some sorts but this current President, or any for that matter, will ever be able to take U.S. citizens guns. You would see an all out war...

[Tinman507]

Agreed. Even the dumbasses here in PA (Highest number of LTCF in the USA) who voted for Omaomao would rise up in revolt.

[PYROhafe]

Civil War?

[ISULarry]

Am I the only one that looked at the date of this article?

[downtownv]

Is anyone surprised that Obama had this hidden all along, given Petraus, Benghazi and the act of war, by Iran, shooting at one of our Aircraft? This is an evil man hidding in cool talking clothing.....

[Fxstchewy]

I don't think anything is going to happen, I really think they know better than to try..........

[mr surveyor]

Am I the only one that looked at the date of this article?

no......sshhhhhh:)

[JFootin]

Am I the only one that looked at the date of this article?

I didn't click over and read it. I was just so ready to believe BO and HC were jumping into action right after the election to go after our guns. I feel kinda dumb, though not as dumb as those who read it and didn't notice the date. LOL! :boink:

[JFootin]

This ARTICLE (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107) is dated Wed Nov 7, 2012. I was right in my assumption.

[JFootin]

How it Really Happens, How No One Gets Caught, and Why We Need Voter ID

Posted on November 8, 2012 (http://www.teapartyperspective.com/2012/11/08/how-it-really-happens-how-no-one-gets-caught-and-why-we-need-voter-id/) by Dan Sebring (http://www.teapartyperspective.com/author/dan-sebring/)


It works like this (allegedly)…for months prior to an election democrat “volunteers” call registered voters on their voter lists on the premise of “getting out the vote”.


When they call someone and the person answering says “John Doe doesn’t live here anymore”, rather than removing the name from the list they make a note. (John Doe is still registered to vote at 1234 Main Street but doesn’t live there anymore).


When there’s about a month remaining before the election they send volunteers out with “walking lists” to knock on the doors of the people they couldn’t reach by telephone on the premise of “getting out the vote”.


When someone answers the door and says “Jane Doe moved 5 years ago” they make a note (Jane Doe is still registered to vote at 5678 Main Street but doesn’t live there anymore).

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n233/glasscottage/1VoterIDFraud.jpg



By election day a list of tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of names, addresses, and voting precincts has been compiled.


Then on election day “volunteers” who “voted early” are bussed in from out of state to locations all over the state to show up at the proper polling place at cast votes for all the John and Jane Does who’ve moved but are still registered to vote in a voting precinct where they no longer live.. You don’t need to prove who are because by law poll workers can’t ask you to prove you are who you say you are. They can’t ask for ID. That’s why no one get caught and that’s why Democrats will tell you that voter fraud doesn’t exist. Because as long as you don’t have to prove who you are at the polls fraud can’t be proven.


You didn’t really think that dozens busloads of “volunteers” really came here to knock on peoples doors and ask them pretty please to “be sure to vote today” did you?

[JFootin]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Misc/40445d1352586917-headstone-self-exp.jpg

[Cokeman]

Are you trying to give us a heart attack? Geez!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Cokeman]

Hey J,
We can't see anything that you are linking to on the Taurus forum because we are not members.

[JFootin]

Hey J,
We can't see anything that you are linking to on the Taurus forum because we are not members.

OK, I fixed it.

[MC1911]

Wasn't part of his oath of office to" protect and defend the constitution of the United States."

I would like an impartial group to look at his college admission records.

The birthers might be nutty , but they may have a point.

[Fredr500]

So what we should all do is:
A)When called say you don't live ther ant more.
B)Vote early

Then they will be caught trying to vote twice.

[Barth]

It's easy to get wound up about gun control.
It's like a pendulum in some respects.
We saw the Brady Bill come and go.
Of course it did nothing to reduce crime.
And something like it may return under the unscrupulous socialist regime we have in place.

But as I look at history as a whole;
1) With the Brady Bill, those with high cap guns and ARs didn't have to surrender them.
2) When full auto weapons were controlled, folks already having them were grandfathered in and could still possess them.

I have no faith in the current administration.
But don't think most Americans will allow the government to take their arms
under any circumstances - including a presidential order.
http://web.li.gatech.edu/~rdrury/500/writing/sp2_08/historical/02.jpg

[Tinman507]

Just for the record:

William Wallace died after being hanged, drawn & quartered for High Treason.
And Scotland is still part of the UK.

[Barth]

Just for the record:

William Wallace died after being hanged, drawn & quartered for High Treason.
And Scotland is still part of the UK.

And for the record;
The United States of America separated from the British Empire.
And continues to be free and sovereign government.
http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/images/home_main_img.gifhttp://www.11thpa.org/graphics/Battle.JPG

[LorenzoB]

But don't think most Americans will allow the government to take their arms
under any circumstances - including a presidential order.

I also don't think they will take our guns from us... They will take our guns from our children or grandchildren. One day, your H&K's will be confiscated and destroyed.

Also, by the very fact of not allowing you or the next generation to buy certain firearms that used to be legal, are in a sense, taking them away.

[johnh]

I am bothered a bit by folks who say no government would be able to disarm us, so don't worry about it. Is that the scenario we really want all this to boil down to? Wouldn't we much rather keep our rights AND not have to fight (literally) for them?

[LorenzoB]

+1 John

[Barth]

I also don't think they will take our guns from us... They will take our guns from our children or grandchildren. One day, your H&K's will be confiscated and destroyed.

Also, by the very fact of not allowing you or the next generation to buy certain firearms that used to be legal, are in a sense, taking them away.

In the case of full auto weapons that is true.
And that might be a good thing.
There has to be some limits on what's appropriate for a citizen to own.
But the high cap mags and AR ban has come and gone.
More Americans are pro gun today than in years gone by.

My crystal ball is not clear on what the future holds.
But I for one still have hope in our future.
That my grandson will be able to legally have and enjoy his inherited H&Ks.

And thanks for hitting below the belt with the H&Ks - LOL!

[LorenzoB]

I have hope too, but we can't "play down" the situation.

I knew you would like the H&K comment. :)

And not only that, but they WOULD be able to disarm the population if all they could get were pellet guns (which is already happening in Europe). And the truth is that most of the people willing to fight will all be very old men soon (the demographics of the election we just have shows that), and the younger next generation is not bold patriots like previous generations.

[LorenzoB]

I know you don't ever want them to be sawed in half (even after you have passed on), and that is why we need to sound the warning.

This is a slow, long term movement, where certain people dream of a time where only governments have guns. They will make leaps forward every time a "Brady Bill" or "Small Arms Treaty" is passed unto that ultimate goal. And then our 40 year old grandchildren will be looking over their shoulder while chatting on the KahrTalk BB gun forum. :D

[wyntrout]

Grandfathering is used to cut down the outcry and GRADUALLY introduce more stringent gun control. Too many people buy off on the deal not to take guns from current owners, thinking it doesn't concern them. Then more restrictions and the class of firearms is enlarged... pretty soon, it includes semi-autos... repeating arms of any kind... then ALL arms... eventually.

This can REALLY suck if there's no compensation! But, the increasingly more tyrannical government makes up the rules as it goes, especially with Dear Ruler's Edicts.

Grandfathering is like the proverbial frog in the pot of water... gradually increasing the heat until he's cooked, rather than trying to toss him into the boiling water. It's not a good thing!

Wynn:(

[Longitude Zero]

We all need to remain vigilant and fight conspiculously for our rights. However a UN treaty is not what I consider to be a primary threat. How many times have we seen in many areas where the "G" allows citizesn to get hot and bothered by issue X and then slides Issue Y thru under the radar. The term Red Herring comes to mind.

[JohnR]

We all need to remain vigilant and fight conspiculously for our rights. However a UN treaty is not what I consider to be a primary threat. How many times have we seen in many areas where the "G" allows citizesn to get hot and bothered by issue X and then slides Issue Y thru under the radar. The term Red Herring comes to mind.

Gay marriage is just one such red herring. I know most of us don't give a damn about what gays do, but the Marxists have been using homosexuality as a wedge for decades, to crack into Western culture's armor. Western culture being defined as the Enlightenment ideals of morality, freedom, and capitalism. If they can shatter that ideal, the way is paved to replace it with Marxism. http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

[Longitude Zero]

Gay marriage is just one such red herring. I know most of us don't give a damn about what gays do, but the Marxists have been using homosexuality as a wedge for decades, to crack into Western culture's armor. Western culture being defined as the Enlightenment ideals of morality, freedom, and capitalism. If they can shatter that ideal, the way is paved to replace it with Marxism. http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

Exactely.

[pudge]

John R,

I appreciate and agree with your comments. Certainly our individual rights as far as gun ownership are very important. But I think there is a more far reaching result of the right to possess firearms. Not only do individuals get to possess and use firearms, but everyone else ... predators from within, and predators from without, who could care less about rules and regulations .... knows that a very large percentage of folks in the USA own and are willing to use firearms. That in itself is a huge deterrent for those who are interested in taking liberties with what does not belong to them. Possession of firearms by the everyday citizen has always been the thing that stands between liberty and the loss of it, in whatever measure you wish to discuss. Many folks who own firearms are not really psychologically prepared to shoot someone else, but put their backs against the wall or their loved ones in danger and they will do it or try too!

And one other comment ... I know that there are those who would do the government's bidding if a confiscation order somehow comes to pass. But I'll tell you that a very large percentage of those already wearing badges and uniforms would NOT participate in such enforcement. The sad thing is that if such an order were to be issued and enforcement was attempted, the confrontation would not likely be pretty. The question is, are we really ready to defy such an edict and take the actions necessary to do so?

[JohnR]

The Founding Fathers were, are we no less than them?

[chrish]

pudge and JohnR,

Those are the VERY questions that concern me the most. I find myself frequently thinking 'what if' scenarios, for me, for the population as a whole. Like pudge said, when your back is against the wall, you WILL use a firearm to defend yourself. But my concern is what IS that wall for everyone. I mean, if they outlaw guns, will I turn them over, will I keep them until they come and turn them over, or will I do everything in my power to keep them including taking a stand with said firearm(s). From my minds standpoint, will I consider that 'against the wall' or is 'against the wall' really just a direct realtime threat to my family (intruder). In other words, I'm concerned that MOST gun owners are the latter. Confiscation is not a direct threat to your life, may be down the road, but of the ~50 million households with guns, how many are really willing to keep them at all costs. That number might be really scary, might be really reassuring. But nobody knows what it is until the rubber meets the road.

[Bawanna]

Let there be zero doubt and let me be perfectly clear.

I don't foresee confiscation in my life time in any real way. Course I was wrong about Australia. I really thought they were together over there but I was wrong.

I figure on the west coast if it does happen except California of course, we'll not be near the front of the collection itinerary.

I will not give them one single rusted closed inoperable piece of garbage gun while air and blood are flowing through my body.

I'm sure I won't last long but I won't go down easy or without effort on my part.

If the SS is watching and want to use me for a test sample at illegally storming peoples houses I'll be happy to provide my address so you don't mistakenly attack an old folks rest home. Those will probably be first.

Bring it.

[JohnR]

Amen, brother. Bring it. Molon Labe.

[Popeye]

I'd sure like to see him explain to the American people how he is fixing the economy by closing down gun manufacturing. Think about this for a moment and all it entails. How many peoples jobs would be effected by such a move?
I will not give up my guns, as I have given my time and a portion of my life to defend the freedoms we enjoy. I once signed a piece of paper saying I would defend this country from all enemys foriegn and domestic and will die if I must to defend our way of life. Nothing has changed. So if they must, bring it on. I have no plans living the rest of my life on my knees begging for scraps. Not a threat just sayin.

[Epiontek]

I follow this forum pretty close but never comment. I feel the need to now. I believe our government will try to disarm us. The statement that most wearing badges and in the military won't turn on the American people is true. I believe this is why they train foreign national troops here because they will turn on us. I do believe they will have a fight on their hands they won't forget. At least that is what I hope.

[Bawanna]

Key word here is "TRY". I have no doubt you are correct.

I wish my tin foil hat was 100% sure, the things I'd like to say here that I can't for fear of the storm troopers.

I'm going out now to arrange a workable sling for my mares leg. Until I rig a back scabbard for it. I'm gonna work it into the force continuim. Handgun and Mares leg to get to the rifle and scattergun.

[knkali]

I don't foresee confiscation in my life time in any real way. Course I was wrong about Australia.

That statement above is what gives me serious doubt about our 2A future. If it can happen in Oz, it can happen here.

[chrish]

Well, given my comments, I do have to say that I would like to think that I would not roll over should it come to this. I believe it is completely possible. It happened in the UK over a relatively short period of time (less than 100 years). It can happen here, no question, or an attempt at least.

It's just a thought that frequently crosses my mind. If I were older, with less responsibility and no dependents...I can say w/ unwavering certainty what I would do...but, that's not reality for me for the next decade plus. If we last that long, I'll be in good shape.

Personally, I think they are going to trash the economy before they can get to it. I think we are in for a nasty ride and in the end we'll be doing good to pay the military, police, etc. We may all be on our own, which I'm fine with. At that point, I'm good to go...lock-n-load.

[Bawanna]

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying they won't try. BUT even idiot liberals have to see the futility of trying to disarm the American public.

The japanese were reluctant to attack because there is a gun behind every blade of grass and that's not far from the truth.

They can't disarm the bad guys, they will play holy hell trying to disarm the good guys.

My youngest is 18. They can stand with me or leave, no shame on them what so ever.

I'm not going anyplace unless it's a better position with more opportunity to take out the SS.

Wish I had access to some mortars and grenades. Some claymores would be right handy too.

Biggest asset would be a great pair of legs, I won't be much good sneaking thru the woods.

[AIRret]

I'd sure like to see him explain to the American people how he is fixing the economy by closing down gun manufacturing. Think about this for a moment and all it entails. How many peoples jobs would be effected by such a move?
I will not give up my guns, as I have given my time and a portion of my life to defend the freedoms we enjoy. I once signed a piece of paper saying I would defend this country from all enemys foriegn and domestic and will die if I must to defend our way of life. Nothing has changed. So if they must, bring it on. I have no plans living the rest of my life on my knees begging for scraps. Not a threat just sayin.

Amen, we are with you brother.

[tv_racin_fan]

In the case of full auto weapons that is true.
And that might be a good thing.
There has to be some limits on what's appropriate for a citizen to own.

I very very seriously can not believe that you sid this. Go read the second amendment and come back and explain what it means in your mind please sir.

But the high cap mags and AR ban has come and gone.
More Americans are pro gun today than in years gone by.

My crystal ball is not clear on what the future holds.
But I for one still have hope in our future.
That my grandson will be able to legally have and enjoy his inherited H&Ks.

And thanks for hitting below the belt with the H&Ks - LOL!

Ahem I hate to inform you but if this treaty is ratified you wont be getting any more H&Ks or anything else built outside of the US. See that is what this treaty seeks to control. Not the guns internally built and sold but those "traded" outside of a nations borders.

[Barth]

Ahem I hate to inform you but if this treaty is ratified you wont be getting any more H&Ks or anything else built outside of the US. See that is what this treaty seeks to control. Not the guns internally built and sold but those "traded" outside of a nations borders.

Be advised;
Hecker and Koch HK45 and HK45C weapons are made in the U.S.A.
The HK45C was adopted by the United States Naval Special Warfare Command in September 2010.

[tv_racin_fan]

Bawanna you hit the nail on the head with the keyword is try bit. There is absolutely no doubt that GOVT will seek to take arms from it's subjects. The founding fathers knew this and this is why we have the second amendment tho some of them felt that having the second amendment would give the govt the vehicle with which to take the arms they believeing that everyone would naturally assume the right. In some aspects you could say those who said we need not such an amendment were correct but I for one do not believe that to be the case.

In any event the founding fathers knew that govt is evil. It always seeks to gain ever more power over it's subjects. Many consider only those who are allowed the right to keep and bear arms as citizens since they have the tools with which to fight against the tyranny of govt. They consider any infringement on that right to be tyranny. I hold with these men and women.

Molon Labe... many understand this to mean come and take them. As I understand it that is not the correct meaning. Having come, take them! Is what I understand to be the correct interpretation. It may seem a trivial difference today buit my understanding is that back in that time it was a HUGE difference. "Come and take them" being a sort of bravado claim and could be taken lightly kids on the playground stuff where the kid making the boast may well run upon the first blow but "having come, take them" was dead serious adult stuff where the man making the statement had no intent whatsoever to back down, now it is till death kinda stuff.

Cold dead fingers... give me liberty or give me death.. I have not yet begun to fight (this boast while the enemy could see the sea thru the hull of the "sinking" ship you are standing on).. da mn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! Nu tz.

[tv_racin_fan]

Be advised;
Hecker and Koch HK45 and HK45C weapons are made in the U.S.A.
The HK45C was adopted by the United States Naval Special Warfare Command in September 2010.

They may well be built here today but they are built with license from off shore, same as the Glock. That license wont hold water nor will it allow them to be built here. National Soverignty and all that rot.

[tv_racin_fan]

Of course it is just MY understanding and I have been wrong before.

[tv_racin_fan]

And of course nations such as China which do not recognize such niceties wont abide by the treaty and the UN wont do anything about it BUT we here in the US will do so.

Or so again that is MY belief.

[les strat]

SO they can't control the criminals with guns, but they had rather turn tens of millions of law abiding folks into criminals? Oh, that makes sense. I swear, it never fails to amaze me the idiocy of the single celled organisms we call liberals.

[JFootin]

SO they can't control the criminals with guns, but they had rather turn tens of millions of law abiding folks into criminals? Oh, that makes sense. I swear, it never fails to amaze me the idiocy of the single celled organisms we call liberals.

Interesting thought: how many liberals does it take to add up the I.Q.s and get a 3 digit number?

[chrish]

Interesting thought: how many liberals does it take to add up the I.Q.s and get a 3 digit number?

100 on average. Like 101 if you add Obama.

[Cokeman]

SO they can't control the criminals with guns, but they had rather turn tens of millions of law abiding folks into criminals? Oh, that makes sense. I swear, it never fails to amaze me the idiocy of the single celled organisms we call liberals.

It's all about control and revenge. Liberals aren't logical or sensible.

[AIRret]

Just keep in mind that If they are not successful taking the guns with the UN treaty they will try taking them when Obummer appoints the next supreme court justice!!!!!!!!!!!
BEWARE, BE PREPARED, AND BE READY!!!!!!!!

[downtownv]

Wasn't part of his oath of office to" protect and defend the constitution of the United States."

I would like an impartial group to look at his college admission records.

The birthers might be nutty , but they may have a point.

Are you saying he listed himself as a foreign national to get priority admission to these Ivy league schools after transferring from Occidental with mediocre grades?:eek::eek::eek::eek::D