People being stopped and searched for guns leaving federal lands

[gm412]

Saw this article.
http://www.infowars.com/drivers-questioned-on-guns-at-federal-checkpoint/

[mr surveyor]

Some of us don't chase blind links.... want to at least paraphrase what's in it?

[Popeye]

gm412
People being stopped and searched for guns leaving federal lands.

Is that really what you got out of that link:confused: What I got out of it is there forcing shooters to pick up there trash. I have absolutely no problem forcing slobs to pick up after themselves. It's called respect for the land and the people using it. As far as the scumbags getting locked up for drug posession, outstanding warrants, or shooting dear illegally. Who cares?

[gm412]

These parts are that worried me. Not making people pick up trash. Searching cars.

Quote

Drivers who are asked questions and threatened with searches at these checkpoints are refusing to co-operate in increasing numbers, citing the Fourth Amendment. Some are allowed to go on their way (http://www.infowars.com/video-truck-driver-stands-up-to-unconstitutional-checkpoint/) while others, like retired San Diego social worker Vince Peppard and his wife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NPOuj-WzAoA), are having their vehicles ransacked against their will.

and

The checkpoint, which snagged around 250 vehicles on Saturday, was set up in the aftermath of record gun sales (http://www.infowars.com/business-is-booming-for-gun-stores-after-election/)and a resurgence in first time gun owners following the re-election of Barack Obama. The Forest Service plans to close three shooting sites in the area, citing the scourge of trash and empty rounds.
Since most of Arizona is federal land, this also seems to be an effort to discourage the exercise of the second amendment in the state. While the feds are hyping the problem caused by empty bullet shells, they don’t seem as fussed about the piles of trash being left behind by illegal immigrants (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094033/Illegal-immigrants-leave-trash-deserts-border-cross-US.html) and drug smugglers as they pass back and forth between Mexico.


Checkpoints to check for guns do make me nervous.

[gb6491]

gm412
People being stopped and searched for guns leaving federal lands.

Is that really what you got out of that link:confused: What I got out of it is there forcing shooters to pick up there trash. I have absolutely no problem forcing slobs to pick up after themselves. It's called respect for the land and the people using it. As far as the scumbags getting locked up for drug posession, outstanding warrants, or shooting dear illegally. Who cares? I think wholesale stopping of American citizens going about there lawful business is questionable at anytime. We already have sobriety and immmigration check points, now this. I wonder if they were asking folks if they went picnicking and then asked them to produce their trash as well. Of course you don't have to tell them if you have been picnicking, but you do have to tell them (if asked by LEO) if you have weapons. I don't have any issue with making slobs clean up after themselves, but I question the tactics used here. If shell casings and target debris is that big of a problem, why not organize a volunteer clean-up? BLM (http://www.yumasun.com/news/river-82104-yuma-people.html) and several organizations (http://www.yumasun.com/news/south-75808-registration-area.html) out my way do that for several areas (with excellent turnout and results).
Speaking of volunteers, I also question the use of the manpower needed for that check point. We have parts of federal parks in Arizona closed/restricted to the public (http://azdailysun.com/news/local/state-and-regional/blm-trying-to-take-on-border-protection/article_a44cfe91-434f-50d1-96f2-c4c115fb1c1d.html) because of drug trafficking and illegal immigration/border violence (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/fighting-drugs-border-violence-arizona-organ-pipe-cactus-132342614.html), but we can shift manpower for this? I guess it's a lot easier to stop Americans north of Tucson than it is to stop foreign invaders closer to the border.
Regards,
Greg

BTW, none of what I wrote above is intended as criticism of the individual officers in the field, but I do think some of the folks in charge should rethink what they are doing.

[LorenzoB]

I didn't follow that link, but I do know that I shoot on federal land (California Sierra Nevada mountains), and always clean up so that it is nicer than when I got there. It is a concern when I get to one of the places I go and see trash like beer cans with bullet holes. :(

The wifey probably wonders when I bring that trash home. ;)

[QuercusMax]

These parts are that worried me. Not making people pick up trash. Searching cars.

Quote

Drivers who are asked questions and threatened with searches at these checkpoints are refusing to co-operate in increasing numbers, citing the Fourth Amendment. Some are allowed to go on their way (http://www.infowars.com/video-truck-driver-stands-up-to-unconstitutional-checkpoint/) while others, like retired San Diego social worker Vince Peppard and his wife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NPOuj-WzAoA), are having their vehicles ransacked against their will.

and

The checkpoint, which snagged around 250 vehicles on Saturday, was set up in the aftermath of record gun sales (http://www.infowars.com/business-is-booming-for-gun-stores-after-election/)and a resurgence in first time gun owners following the re-election of Barack Obama. The Forest Service plans to close three shooting sites in the area, citing the scourge of trash and empty rounds.
Since most of Arizona is federal land, this also seems to be an effort to discourage the exercise of the second amendment in the state. While the feds are hyping the problem caused by empty bullet shells, they don’t seem as fussed about the piles of trash being left behind by illegal immigrants (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094033/Illegal-immigrants-leave-trash-deserts-border-cross-US.html) and drug smugglers as they pass back and forth between Mexico.


Checkpoints to check for guns do make me nervous.

There are several difficulties with articles of this type:

1. Factual errors. For example, the statement "most of Arizona is federal land" is not true. All Federal agencies and DoD combined own roughly 41% of land in Arizona (which is high, but 5 other states have an even greater % Federal ownership).

2. Unproven speculation by the author. When he says "this also seems to be an effort to discourage the exercise of the second amendment in the state" that is one man's opinion, not journalism. I live in a state which has a MUCH higher % of land owned by the Federal govt, but have yet to see even one Federal checkpoint here.

3. I would also question the objectivity of the author himself, as he is reporting from a web site with a known point of view and the author also reports from that viewpoint. Similarly, I would not expect objective points of view from people or web sites who are known supporters of groups like Greenpeace or NRDC either, just to name 2 other examples.


I'm not sure exactly what was going on in the situation being "reported" on here, but as far as I know law enforcement is not allowed to to do searches without probable cause. More responsible reporting should have cleared up what exactly was happening.

Make no mistake, I am no fan of excessive police or government action, but I'm also no fan of excessive criminal action. Common sense tells me that the actions described in the linked article have more to do with the situation in Arizona than gun rights.

[JERRY]

if the federales are involved its apt to be a shadey deal, lately anyway.

[Sage]

Searching people and their vehicles is the wrong way to go about it. If they want to post someone at the range and observe, that would be ok with me. Then if they see someone fail to pick up their brass they can ask them to do so or take appropriate action.

Checkpoints and random searches without cause are becoming too prevalent in Amerika.

[gb6491]

...
1. Factual errors. For example, the statement "most of Arizona is federal land" is not true. All Federal agencies and DoD combined own roughly 41% of land in Arizona (which is high, but 5 other states have an even greater % Federal ownership).
...
Just a point here (and a moot one at that):
I guess it depends upon how you look at it. If you consider that 27 something % (pg.3 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:KxlGOvw_TDwJ:www.azleg.gov/briefs/Senate/STATE%2520TRUST%2520LAND.pdf+arizona+percentage+fe deral+land&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiu9uWPaA-Q57WgKH14W3gvN8GefRaqr23JLxEdoTDOKSsDFDTbuqzK4uCUl liFHx_Nzw7BBkD6_jV9dFhm_jYbSJVwrvdmm0Qr551Zmik4TGm BasXcMwSACFocmfDQM1VvH6Ba&sig=AHIEtbQX583IQPjAGxcYS8tRBpO6C9qmuQ)) of that remaining 59% is Indian trust land (federal title), then that statement certainly could be construed as true.
Regards,
Greg

[Tilos]

No need for additional info for me, I ignore all links to infowars bovine skat

[tv_racin_fan]

As I understand it there is effort afoot to halt shooting on much of the public land in Arizona. Something about the sensibilities of people who do not shoot and them being afraid some red neck with a gun gonna accidentally shoot someone.