Owners of Kahrs and Sigs - service question

[godan]

Posting this on one of the Sig forums might create suspicion of making trouble, which is not the case. My comments and questions are straightforward and sincere. After decades with Glocks, 1911's and revolvers, I bought several Kahrs and a Sig P250 over the past few months. All are modern, competent DAO handguns with similar trigger pulls. What is startlingly different are the corporate personalities and customer service profiles of the two companies; Kahr is great and Sig is awful. Kahr's website is rich and complete, with on-line ordering and inquiry options They have a fax number and positive, informed service reps. Orders to Kahr are filled promptly and accurately. Sig has no parts or service website and no fax number for private owners. Waits on their customer service line can be twenty minutes or more. Customer service reps are polite, but they are also smoothly practiced at describing what they do not have and cannot do. Sig does not even sell mag springs or rebuild kits for the P250, and their recoil springs are on apparently indefinite back order. Perhaps private owners represent such a small profit center to Sig that they just don't bother serving us very well. For Kahr, on the other hand, we are a target market. They treat us with competence, good manners and excellent service. Is there another answer? Does anyone have definite knowledge or a better sense of why Sig's customer service is so user-unfriendly - - at least in comparison to Kahr's? Thanks.

[jocko]

nice post, indeed would not go well on a sig forum. some kahrpeople here might also feel u over inflated kahr to.

[kerby9mm]

I have dealt with both and both companies fixed what needed to be fixed with no expense to me. Sig sent me a new recoil spring and a new laser (I mailed the defective one back) for my p238. My mk9 went back & forth 4 times for things that Kahr messed up when the gun was there for other stuff. No complaints from me about Kahr or Sig CS.

[Longitude Zero]

I have never needed service from either company. However I have ordered from both and had equally excellent experiences. Both were great CS.

[CJB]

Ive gotten parts from Sig in the past - ok to deal with, courteous and professional.

Here's the thing. Civilian shooters are a drop in the bucket for Sig.

Their big market is law enforcement and government agencies. Do I think their business is built on a substantially better product - no. Just better marketing. Its their company... they can do as they like. Just as Glock does... Glock has had catastrophic failures... but they market themselves well.

Kahr, on the other hand, has found a better niche in civilian sales, and treats us civilians as they ought to.

[RRP]

~
Do I think their business is built on a substantially better product - no. Just better marketing. Its their company... they can do as they like.
~

Sig and Kahr are not in the same business.

Kahr is targeting a niche market in sub-compact pistols. They don't even produce full-size duty weapons, as Sig does. Can't sell 'em if you don't produce 'em.

[CB3]

I have dealt with CS from both companies, Kahr about 4x in five years (mostly parts) and Sig for warranty returns of firearms and parts within the last three months. Both CS departments did a good, timely job of taking care of my needs.

I agree that Sig lacks the public/customer information availability we expect from most manufacturers, as well as some silly restrictions. I understand their civilian CS was horrible a few years ago and has improved greatly. I also agree that they have not perceived the civilian market to be their core focus. As civilian sales continue to increase, I bet we will see improved marketing to us.

[Nimrod]

I have dealt with Kahr's service and sales departments several time and have always been very pleased with the service. I only have one Sig and it has been perfect from day one so I haven't had to deal with their service department.

Since I moved up to Kahr for concealled carry, my Sig doesn't see much action. I still occasionally shoot it but other than that, it lives in my gun safe.

[jocko]

good companies no mattrer what they ake normally stand behind their products. no doubt thought some stand way way behind their products to..Just sayin

[godan]

I have dealt with CS from both companies, Kahr about 4x in five years (mostly parts) and Sig for warranty returns of firearms and parts within the last three months. Both CS departments did a good, timely job of taking care of my needs.

I agree that Sig lacks the public/customer information availability we expect from most manufacturers, as well as some silly restrictions. I understand their civilian CS was horrible a few years ago and has improved greatly. I also agree that they have not perceived the civilian market to be their core focus. As civilian sales continue to increase, I bet we will see improved marketing to us.

If Sig's civilian CS has improved, I shudder to think what it was. Even so, the last sentence in this thoughtful post comes closest to what I expect and hope will occur. With its use of the internet, Kahr is comfortably in the 21st century, engaging the practices and expectations of modern commerce. Sig, without internet parts lists, diagrams and ordering options, is still somewhere in the past century, leaving customers waiting on the phone for the next available etc. With its smaller .380's and 9mm, Sig clearly seeks civilian sales, yet it lacks the CS to meet the expectations of those who buy them. Meanwhile, Kahr is right there, providing an example of how to do it right.

[muggsy]

We had an old saying in the Navy. Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me. I hold to that sentiment to this day. So far I've found Kahr's CS to be excellent.

[O'Dell]

I've had one experience with each. About four years ago, I bought a USED PM45 that was in almost perfect shape - almost because there was a scratch on the slide. I called and told them it was purchased used, and they said send it back and they would see what they could do. when I got it back, they had replaced the slide and recoil spring and had polished the ramp and chamber. All it cost me was one way shipping.

With SIG, I called about new night sights on my nickel 1995 P220 in 2009. They said for an extra $20 [$130 total] they would completely disassemble the pistol and ultrasonically clean it, and replace any small parts that needed it. I sent it in and got back a gun with new sights, all new springs including recoil, a new trigger bar, polished ramp, and they had polished the nickel plating to look brand new. I paid shipping but at their rates.

In both cases, I felt that the companies went above and beyond, and was very pleased. BTW, SIG does have parts and service prices on the website, but you have to look for them.

[godan]

SIG does have parts and service prices on the website, but you have to look for them.

Could you please provide some direction to parts and service prices? I tried everything I could find from the Products tab with no results. There are Custom Shop services, but nothing else came up. If a a list of P250 parts is on their site, I would be grateful for directions to it. Thanks.

[Sage]

Couldn't agree with you more godan. I own both Sigs and Kahrs. Sig doesn't to put a lot of effort into customer service. Their attitude seems to be that they can take us or leave us.

[jocko]

humm: sounds like our president!! Just sayin

[O'Dell]

Could you please provide some direction to parts and service prices? I tried everything I could find from the Products tab with no results. There are Custom Shop services, but nothing else came up. If a a list of P250 parts is on their site, I would be grateful for directions to it. Thanks.

I'm not really sure just what you want to do with your P250. I have had six SIG's and other than the replacement of the fourteen year old night sights, none have ever required anything. The refurb I had done is listed at the Custom Shop along with several other services. Common things like mags, etc, are listed in Accessories. I think you would have to put a lot of rounds through a SIG before you needed any part replacements. The P220 was functioning just fine before the refurb except for the sights and it had fired about 12,000 rounds.

[godan]

I'm not really sure just what you want to do with your P250. I have had six SIG's and other than the replacement of the fourteen year old night sights, none have ever required anything. The refurb I had done is listed at the Custom Shop along with several other services. Common things like mags, etc, are listed in Accessories. I think you would have to put a lot of rounds through a SIG before you needed any part replacements. The P220 was functioning just fine before the refurb except for the sights and it had fired about 12,000 rounds.

Thanks for the reply. I would still appreciate it if you could tell me how to get to exploded drawings and parts lists. After over forty years with handguns, beginning in the military, I have a lively interest in a supply of spare parts, especially springs. Also, Sig's video stipulates replacement of the roll pin in the slide every time it is removed, which is required to clean the internals, including firing pin, safety, extractor parts, etc. I will need a few of those. So, if you know how to reach the pertinent sections of the site, please let me know.

[JimC]

Since purchasing my PM9 (new pistol) in 2011, I have unfortunately, had to use Kahr CS on a couple of occassions. Only once was I not thrilled with the person that I spoke with, other than that I would give them a 9 on a scale of 1-10.

I have found the best way to deal with their CS is by e-mail. But, you will find at times that two employees will have two different answers to your question. :rolleyes: Right hand know what the left hand is doing or saying?

You will find however that the info from Kahr CS will differ from that of the experts on the Internet forums. ;)

I have only one SIG pistol, a P226 that I bought used in 2007 for a specific reason. I have never had to use their CS due to a problem with the pistol but I have dealt with them for parts or accessories. I have found them to be friendly, helpful and very well informed in regard to their product.

I would give them a 10 on a scale of 1-10.

The threaded barrel for the P226 can be hard to find at times. When I needed one I called SIG and asked if they were available, explaining that I could not locate one. The woman I spoke with was more than helpful in filling my order and asking if she could be of further assistance. I paid full freight for ther barrel but I got one when they were hard to find and she knew what she was talking about.

SIG favor LE or government sales or customers? Absolutely, they know when their profits come from. Glock does the same thing but they do treat their civilian customers very well also.

[JimC]

I seem to recall the question being asked about SIG online parts, etc.?

SIG Parts/Accessories (http://sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProduct.aspx?categoryid=81)

Bottom of page, right hand corner...parts/tools.

[downtownv]

I have dealt with both and if you get an ******* (which both companies have) best to ask for another CS or hang up call back and talk to another person.
I have had issues with both companies people.I don't hold it against the company itself. I definitely have an issue with Kahr's extreme rip off shipping fees on parts!

[MLESa7990]

I have dealt with both and if you get an *******

What?

[Tinman507]

I can't believe you just said *******
That's the foulest thing I've ever read.


(The forum software puts ****** in for a perceived offensive word)

[godan]

I seem to recall the question being asked about SIG online parts, etc.?

SIG Parts/Accessories (http://sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProduct.aspx?categoryid=81)

Bottom of page, right hand corner...parts/tools.

Thank you, Sir. That is just what I wanted.