Kahr problems

[bwanatom]

To start with, I am new to Kahr Talk and look forward to the forum. Secondly, I feel you have to believe there are some inherent problems with the Kahr pistols to have so much talk about them in these regards. I have a Kahr PM9 with night sights that I really like, and shoot very accurately for a pocket gun. At self defense distance, about 10-15 feet, I can keep a 3 inch hole in the target, which is just fine for me. Just the same, I have encountered a couple issues that are the same as 'many' other Kahr owners have experienced. I feel all these people can't be wrong, which means that there is issues with this gun. I for one, don't like to carry my Kahr with one in the chamber. Many people don't like to carry with one in the chamber for safety sake, but probably most do. With this practice comes the problem of jams against the feed ramp when sling shotting the first round of a full mag into the chamber. Just like the videos, mine hangs up half the time and has to be forced into battery with a moderate palm heel strike. From then on it cycles reliably. There is an issue with this situation because so many owners have voiced similar concerns. I did have a failure to feed at my last range outing, for the first time in about 1000 rounds, but I think the mag wasn't locked into position or I accidentally hit the mag release button? I'm going back to the range and testing it again to see if this has any consistency, or it was my own fault for this failure.
Again, I love my Kahr but am concerned whether it will be there for me if I need it in a SD situation.
Tom

[Bawanna]

Tom, Kahr specifically advises to load the chamber with the slide lock release, not to sling shot. That being said after break in and if properly executed it will sling shot just fine. I do mine all the time.

Carrying with an empty chamber is a whole different issue and your spot on when you say the sling shot hangup can be an issue. It certainly will be when your trying to load your gun with a gallon of adrenaline coursing thru your veins.

To each his own and we all respect that here but with an empty chamber you might as well leave your gun at home. Most won't have time to draw their gun or will be too slow to do so with all the liability stuff in this day and age.

The Kahr pistol is about as safe as one can get, a long deliberate trigger pull, drop safeties built in. Use a holster that covers the trigger and practice keeping you finger off the trigger and you'll never have a problem.

Again if you want to carry an empty chamber, please do so and hope you have time when you need it. Carrying like that I don't think a Kahr is the best choice. I'd go with something less tight and precise, with more forgiveness in loading.

Just my 2 cents and probably not a bargain at that.

[JERRY]

Kahrs along with many other semi-autos are designed to carry a round in the chamber. not doing so is a personal problem not a gun problem. sling shotting the slide is purposely going against the manufacturer's practice, again, not a gun problem.

i will be the fist to sing praises or curse a gun for its performance....my PM9 has been flawless, my PM45 is disappointing thus far....but what youre complaining about is not a gun issue.

[Bawanna]

Just saw the name, I wonder if we're related?

[JFootin]

When you slingshot, are you doing it with gusto so that your hand slides off the back when the slide reaches the end of its travel? If you ride the slide when it is closing any at all, that will cause FTFs.

[MLESa7990]

The Kahr pistols are designed to be carried with one in the pipe. I can understand why some people might not like to, but that certainly doesn't mean there is a design flaw. That being said, I dont have any problems hand racking the PM9...it can be done.

[Tinman507]

Just saw the name, I wonder if we're related?

Long lost cousin from Kenya?

[MikeyKahr]

Long lost cousin from Kenya?

O no he didn't, cousin Jfootin didn't just say Kenya, did he OBawannama?

[JFootin]

O no he didn't, cousin Jfootin didn't just say Kenya, did he OBawannama?

I'm being framed! I didn't say that.

[Barth]

OP

Recommend you take a professional handgun self defense course.
In the Computer Business will call your experiences - User Error.

[ripley16]

I wonder why anyone would carry a defensive handgun without a round chambered and ready. It makes no sense unless you are using a gun that is inherently dangerous.

[muggsy]

Most guns are inherently safe. It's the owners who are dangerous. :)

[yqtszhj]

I can slingshot my CM9 but you have to make sure to not ride the slide at all when it's going forward.

Also IMO the recoil spring is WAY TOO stiff to plan on slingshotting a round when under pressure. I carry one in the chamber and in a good holster. No worries.

[CJB]

I for one, don't like to carry my Kahr with one in the chamber. Many people don't like to carry with one in the chamber

I did have a failure to feed at my last range outing, for the first time in about 1000 rounds, but I think the mag wasn't locked into position or I accidentally hit the mag release button?
Tom

2nd item first... watch where your thumb goes. This can happen, but.. also you can have a problem, especially with 7 round mags in a pm9 it seems.

1st item now. I am "mr safety". I have always taught that the concealed hammer revolver is the most safe handgun. You cannot make it fire, unless you deliberately give a long firm pull to the trigger. Kahr is the same way. GLOCK IS NOT THE SAME WAY. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT ANIMULES!

The Kahr behaves like a well tuned double action only revolver. You must pull the trigger firmly, deliberately, and fully to the rear for it to go bang. It is safe to carry with a chambered round, or at least as safe as any DAO revolver is. I regularly carry my PM45's or PM9 in my pocket, in my jeans. Its safe. Very safe. Perhaps the SAFEST there is.

Hope that helps.

[yqtszhj]

I wonder why anyone would carry a defensive handgun without a round chambered and ready.

Explain that to my wife will you??? I'm working on that very thing. She almost sees it my way but not quite yet...

[PYROhafe]

First, Welcome to the forum! Lots of great info and people here!
Second, Riding the slide is (in my opinion) the problem here. (well that is if you ignore the not carrying a round in the chamber... bad idea if you do your reasearch, but thats another topic that we've debated here before) If that pm9 is past break in (like you said it is) you shouldnt have any problem hand racking the slide. Dont be nice to it. TRY to break it apart when you rack it, the hand on the slide should "slip" off the back and hit you in the chest. This ensures you're putting enough force on it, and not riding the slide back into place. Just my .02 hope it makes sense to ya.

[7shot]

This is what I believe to be the número uno rule in gun carry...always keep a round in the chamber! The gun doesn't do you any good if it isn't ready to rock and roll. If your serious about carry, practice as often as you can on your drawing technic. This will make you more confident about carrying and ease your mind about keeping your pistol loaded at all times. Of course everyone is different but this is how I look at it! Oh, welcome aboard and good luck...

[ripley16]

Most guns are inherently safe. It's the owners who are dangerous. :)

There are a few pistols, mostly older designs, that have a lack of safety features that make them less safe than modern pistols. Some revolvers are best left with an empty chamber under the hammer. Some older automatics may lack drop safeties, decockers, firing pin blocks and such. The Kahr design is a safe design.

[Ronso]

Welcome Tom. I have a CW9 and early on I experienced the two performance issues you mentioned .
The unintentional mag. release happened intermittently. Figuring out that my thumb was SOMETIMES in the wrong place taught me two things: 1) Don't do that, and 2) I obviously wasn't holding the gun the same way consistently. Solving one problem solved the other.
As far as the jamming issue. Other posters are right. Rack the slide with gusto. That said, I only experienced problems with defense rounds. Apart from how you work the slide, I think part of the issue is the steep incline of the feed ramp. I started putting a THIN coat of gun oil on it with a Q-Tip and probably improved my racking technique, and the problem is gone.
Now to the issue of carrying with one in the chamber.... I felt exactly as you do then I thought about it. With the long trigger pull that is designed into the pistol, I don't see how you can have an accidental discharge as long as your trigger is covered by your holster. With doing that and practicing safe handling (finger off the trigger), I realized the issue was fear due to lack of training. I ALWAYS carry ready to go because Heaven forbid, if the SHTF I don't have to think about racking the slide (and hope there's no hangup) or fumble with a safety. You know, the things that can get you killed. An unintentional benefit is that I don't treat the gun as if it might be loaded. It IS loaded, so safe handling is now ingrained.
To prove that this is safe, load your magazine with snap caps (Make sure live ammo is nowhere around to avoid a mistake!!!), rack the slide, and carry your pistol around for the day. When you later take it off, draw your gun, point in a safe direction, and pull the trigger. When you hear the striker, that will tell you that the trigger was safe all the time.
Don't get me wrong, seing guys carying 1911's "cocked and locked" scares the crap out of me but in the end, It's the same thing. Practice safety and get over the mental hurdle. Good luck!

[bwanatom]

Firstly, I appreciate all the informative replies, thank you. Now for some other info that might aid this topic. I am pretty well trained in SD because I shoot at the range on a weekly basis. I have been involved in SD classes and realize that is a different level of skills then just target shooting. I have been carrying for about 2 years now, and I will add, approx half the time I carry I do carry a round in the chamber. I guess I didn't explain myself in detail enough in my original post. It has taken a little time to gain confidence of carrying with it chambered, but now, for most situations, I carry it chambered. I do, although, enjoy carrying it without out on in the pipe under certain circumstances, when I don't feel the possible threat possibility. An occasion where this might take place is in friends or families houses having dinner, or in a restaurant in reputable settings, etc. I was disappointed to find it jamming upon the slingshot method of loading due to the fact I sometimes carry that way. So I took your advice in regards to how I slingshot the gun and found I wasn't giving the gun a full slingshot, thus the failure to load. Upon your suggestion, when I give it a 'solid' slingshot it never fails, as I have tested this method extensively now. I find it a little more sensitive with the extended mag for slingshotting, but even with that mag, it doesn't fail anymore, as long as I give it a solid slingshot. So, thankfully, I am happy and satisfied with the gun in terms of this issue, and appreciate all your help that you gave me. Now about the other issue of it FTF during shooting, there has only been this one time that it has occurred. Half way through the mag the slide locked open and failed to feed the next round. Upon further inspection I found the mag was not locked into position. I assume a mag not locked into position will cause a FTF. Being the only time this has happened, it must have been my thumb on the mag release button, inadvertently. I am going back to the range this weekend to put another 100rds through it to satisfy my inclinations. I am confident the gun will operate 100%, especially when I incorporate the suggestions you folks gave into practice. I really like this gun for it's many advantages:
1) Reliability(I now can boast this benefit)
2) Lightweight
3) Concealability
4) Great feeling trigger (This trigger just fits my finger comfortably)
5) Accuracy (I can drill a 3" hole at 5yds with 50 rds)
6) Option I like is the 'tritium' night sights.
This is the ammo I carry in it:
http://www.hornady.com/store/9MM-135-gr-FlexLock-Critical-DUTY/
thanks,
tom

ps...I self imposed the name bwanatom on myself as a result of going on two African safaris. One in 1997, the other in 1999. Was going on a 3rd in Sept 27th, 2001, but I cancelled that due to 911.

[bwanatom]

I took my PM9 back to the range to put 100 rds thru it, to see if the magazine coming out, midway through empty, was a gun problem or my thumb inadvertently hitting the mag release button. No problems at all, and the gun chewed right thru the 100rds with only one issue. While hitting the slide release with a full 6 rds in the mag, it jammed. This is the way Kahr suggests to chamber a full mag, but I had to jolt it into action. It doesn't really bother me that much because I slingshot it now, with authority, and it does not fail. The Kahr is a very tightly wound gun, I realize, and needs to be handled accordingly. I shoot it amazingly accurate for a pocket pistol. My nephew is looking for a carry hg, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to him, but I would surely brief him on the techniques that are needed for usage.