New P380, poor function

[WNC]

New to the board. I am looking for opinions on the P380. I have a new P380, and have run 220 rounds through it as of today. I have shot 100 of American Eagle, 50 Federal, 50 Magtech, and 20 out of my box of Hornady Critical. The gun refuses to function with any consistency. Repeated failure to feed, or a feed without returning to battery. Both of these conditions are occurring routinely. Today when loading the gun by releasing the slide lock, the slide would not return to full battery. The slide lacks about a quarter inch from returning to full battery. This is a new condition. So in effect, the gun suffers from three different malfunctions. Based on others experience, is it time to send it back to the factory? Thanks WNC.

[JERRY]

you can send it back if they pay for shipping....if they wont pay for shipping your better off spending that dsame money on more ammo; if that doesnt work you can sell it with disclosure or call the company for help.

[Cokeman]

Mine did that until I polished the inside of the chamber with my Dremel.

[muggsy]

New to the board. I am looking for opinions on the P380. I have a new P380, and have run 220 rounds through it as of today. I have shot 100 of American Eagle, 50 Federal, 50 Magtech, and 20 out of my box of Hornady Critical. The gun refuses to function with any consistency. Repeated failure to feed, or a feed without returning to battery. Both of these conditions are occurring routinely. Today when loading the gun by releasing the slide lock, the slide would not return to full battery. The slide lacks about a quarter inch from returning to full battery. This is a new condition. So in effect, the gun suffers from three different malfunctions. Based on others experience, is it time to send it back to the factory? Thanks WNC.

Contact Kahr Customer Service at 508-795-3919 or e-mail at service@kahr.com. Ask for Jay. Explain the problems that you have been having with your gun. The gun is under warranty and Kahr should repair or replace it at no charge. They may send you a new recoil spring to try before they have you return the gun. In many instances that will cure the problem that you are having.

[WNC]

Thanks for the responses. The barrel has been polished and the feed ramp has been polished as well. Rails look ok. I do not see anything else I can do.

[RRP]

Before you send it to Kahr, try these things:


Follow the prep instructions in this thread (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1521)
Lube it well (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=308). This little pistol likes to run wet, especially during break-in.
Use the slide release to chamber the first round (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6943)
Avoid flat-nose ammo, like Winchester White Box. Remington UMC feeds well in this gun and is good ammo to use for break-in and target shooting.
Hold it very firmly. Tiny sub-compacts are easy to limp-wrist. Ensure your grip is as high as possible, so the slide just clears the wrinkle of skin in the web of your hand, when it cycles.

Caution, opinionated statement ahead.

Next, toss the extended magazine out the window. Stick to the standard 6 round mags.

After you've tried these steps, report back to us. You will love this little pistol.

[Cokeman]

You are maybe past the break in period. You shouldn't send it back because it didn't do well in the break in period. See if the problems stop or continue. Many P380s don't do well in the break in period if they are dirty and 220 rounds in a day is probably too much. Many people say that the problems start after shooting 25 - 50 rounds. Clean it and try it again.

[FLBri]

I agree. You have just run your "break in" period and that is important. I own several Kahrs and each new one I bought was slightly different in this regard. I have a PM9 that has never failed from the first shot. I have an MK9 that took 450 rnds before it could be declared "reliable". But in both cases these guns are now 100% dependable without any failures.

My suggestion: Clean and lube your gun. Grease the rails and pick up ramp. Also use a little grease on the recoil spring/guide rod as this can be a source of friction in returning to battery. Give it a chance at another 100 rounds of ROUND NOSE FMJ ( I use PMC for range ammo and it functions fine in all my Kahrs including a P380). Keep a good grip.

If it doesn't smooth out by the last 25 or so don't waist any more time and money. Call Kahr. They will make it right and if they don't offer, just ask, and they will send you a pick up label. They WILL make it right ... they are maybe a tad weak in the QC and consistency department (my opinion) but they are awesome in customer service and making it function right. Be patient, and be VERY ARTICULATE in describing your problems in writing. Send the written instructions in with your weapon. It's hard to expect great service if they have to read your mind as to the problems. Don't expect your conversation with customer service to be perfectly notated to the gunsmith ... write it down for them! They have ALWAYS come through for me.

Finally, when it is your favorite micro pistol, don't forget to let us all know here!!

[JERRY]

what he said seems to be true, Kahr will make it right; the frustration comes with making it right eventually.....

[WNC]

Thanks for the feedback. I will try running it wet. So far I have run it dry. My impression at this point is one of disappointment. I have never owned a firearm that ran so poorly right out of the box. I thought that maybe the combination of steel moving on synthetic is the problem, but I have a Keltec .32 that has run 180 rounds with one stove pipe and no other failures. So steel and synthetic is very workable. The fit, finish, and quality of materials on the Kahr is superior. I am convinced the Kahr suffers from design or engineering flaws. This will be my only Kahr. It is sad for me because I really like the feel, the balance and the look of the gun.

[XD40SC]

I've got a new Kahr P380 (CA Model with LCI, RC ser# series) and have run the following through it:
11/8/12 New - no maint: shot right out of the box - 100 Rd. White Box Winc 95 gr. FMJ = 4 FTF, 100 Rem. UMC 88 gr. JHP = 4 FTF
11/14/12 50 Federal 95 gr. FMJ = 6 FTF, 36 Rem UMC 88 gr JHP = 0 FTF Up to this point all w/ 6 rd. mag
11/17/12 Cleaned/oiled (used Jocko prep) 36 rd. Rem UMC 88 gr. JHP = 2 FTF, 1 Failure to return to battery ( slide 1/4" back). Used new 7 rd. mag for half of 36 rds. Up to the point of using various loads including the Federal, was not impressed with reliability, but after the 36 rds. of UMC with 0 FTF, I was feeling better about this little beast. I plan on sticking with Rem UMC for target and carry at this point. I then found the Jocko method of prepping a new gun, did that and had the above results on 11/17/12. I've had only 2 malfunctions after 1,500 rds. with my XD40SC (both probably due to limp wristing) and understand that the Kahr's need a little more TLC in the break-in dept., but 322 rds. and still not reliable is starting to get pricey for just a break-in. :001_huh: It's easy to get on the Internet and read about someone trashing a product without all the details, but glad to see this objective, detailed post by WNC describing a fairly similar situation to what I've experienced. I'll be watching here to see what developed and might try polishing my feed ramp. I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch of the imagination and didn't buy this little pocket beast to become one, but will read up on the procedure. One question, has anyone polished their ramp in hopes of fixing their FTF and gotten grief from Kahr for modifying the gun while still under warranty?


Edit: Just did some more reading, found my 7rd. mag had the spring installed backwards from the factory, betting this is helping cause some of the FTF issues. Going to do a complete mag workover on both and check it out at the range. This forum is a wealth of knowledge, just have to keep searching, the fix is on here somewhere I'm certain. Thanks to all who've put time into documenting these fixes! :yo:

[cloud]

. I'll be watching here to see what developed and might try polishing my feed ramp. I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch of the imagination and didn't buy this little pocket beast to become one, but will read up on the procedure. One question, has anyone polished their ramp in hopes of fixing their FTF and gotten grief from Kahr for modifying the gun while still under warranty?


:

I really dont know if it does any good ,but I use some mothers polish on a q tip on the feed ramps on my guns.I have not tried the dremel like some people have.Wnc we wish you luck with your 380 hope it works out for you.


This is one of my posts on the p380
made it to the range yesterday .Put 250 rounds through the 380 .Did Jocko's prep and lube guide.In the first 100 rounds I had 1 failed to go into full battery(really don't know if I was riding the slide with my finger) and 1 the slide locked open on the 3rd round. The next 150 rounds were trouble free. They did ship my p380 with the 6 rd mag and a 7 rd mag with extender. Really like shooting the gun .I think it will travel with me where ever I go .

[muggsy]

While the gun is new you may have to chamber the first round using the slide release. Also, check your grip. The slightest upward pressure on the slide lock will cause the slide to lock back prematurely. Once the gun is well broken in using the slingshot method of chambering the first round should work provided that you use the proper technique. You cannot ride the slide and expect good function. P380's are somewhat ammo sensitive. Most FMJ RN's will work well and I've had very good luck with Remington Golden Saber as a defensive round.

[XD40SC]

Update to post #11. Polished feed ramp, made sure mags were in top working order after which I put 80 rds. through it and had 5 FTF, 2 FRB (failure to return to battery) and 1 Stovepipe. Emailed Kahr for guidance, looks like it'll be going back to the mother ship for some TLC. I followed the Jocko procedures and tech advice, but is there anything I'm missing before sending it back? WNC any updates on yours?

[RRP]

Update to post #11. Polished feed ramp, made sure mags were in top working order after which I put 80 rds. through it and had 5 FTF, 2 FRB (failure to return to battery) and 1 Stovepipe. Emailed Kahr for guidance, looks like it'll be going back to the mother ship for some TLC. I followed the Jocko procedures and tech advice, but is there anything I'm missing before sending it back? WNC any updates on yours?

I'm curious, what ammo did you use this last time around?

[cloud]

Update to post #11. Polished feed ramp, made sure mags were in top working order after which I put 80 rds. through it and had 5 FTF, 2 FRB (failure to return to battery) and 1 Stovepipe. Emailed Kahr for guidance, looks like it'll be going back to the mother ship for some TLC. I followed the Jocko procedures and tech advice, but is there anything I'm missing before sending it back? WNC any updates on yours?

did you check out this article ? what muggsy said they can be somewhat ammo sensitive.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kahr-p380-tiny-pocket-pistol-made-in-usa/

[jocko]

Update to post #11. Polished feed ramp, made sure mags were in top working order after which I put 80 rds. through it and had 5 FTF, 2 FRB (failure to return to battery) and 1 Stovepipe. Emailed Kahr for guidance, looks like it'll be going back to the mother ship for some TLC. I followed the Jocko procedures and tech advice, but is there anything I'm missing before sending it back? WNC any updates on yours?

enough, let kahr do it right, It will come back right. U can't say u did't try. They really are nice guns when right.. Let kahr pay bothg ways though, u should not be out a dime, and document what the gun is dong so the techs can see, and maybe even list the ammo u were using. Gotta give them a path to follow, saves them alot of time amd maybe missing sumpin to..

[WMD]

enough, let kahr do it right, It will come back right. U can't say u did't try. They really are nice guns when right.. Let kahr pay bothg ways though, u should not be out a dime, and document what the gun is dong so the techs can see, and maybe even list the ammo u were using. Gotta give them a path to follow, saves them alot of time amd maybe missing sumpin to..


What Jocko has said is correct. (jeesh! I hate to put that in writing! :D)

Seriously, do not waste any more time trying to "fix" it. Let Kahr take care of it for you. Call them up and ask them to pick up shipping. I am sure they will happily oblige. They may want you to try a new recoils spring first. No biggy, give it a try and if it doesn't solve the problem they will fix it for you.

[XD40SC]

did you check out this article ? what muggsy said they can be somewhat ammo sensitive.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kahr-p380-tiny-pocket-pistol-made-in-usa/

Sure did (thx), also read this one http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/07/great-380-fmj-jhp-ammo-test-results.html and decided on Rem UMC (#13 & 33 on his list) as it seemed to have favorable results and is locally available. My last 80 rounds were:
12/7/12 50 rds. Remington 95 gr. FMJ 7 FTF, 2 FRB, 1 SP
30 rds. Remington 88 gr. JHP 5 FTF, 2 FRB (About half of these malfunctions were when my Mrs. was shooting, might have been caused by limp wrist, but when I was shooting, paid particular attention to that and finger/thumb placement so as not to contribute to any of the FTF.)


Totals 402 rds. shot, 28 FTF, 5 FRB, 1 SP


I agree with Jocko, time for this one to go home. Thanks all for the advice, will report back what goes from here.

[WNC]

So, mailed in the P380 to factory. Turnaround was 6 business days. The following was replaced: Cocking cam, cocking cam pin, ejector, extractor, striker block, recoil springs, slide stop. Test fired at the factory. Now, I shot 6 clips of 6 rounds each. Had 4 slide lock backs before the clips were empty. Going back to the dealer who also happens to have an indoor range and let him shoot. Then I will begin the battle to get my money back. If you have not bought a P380, save yourself the time, money, and headaches. There are design flaws or manufacturing flaws in the P380 platform. I do not know what they are. I suspect that the Kahr engineers are not sure themselves. This leads to some significant percentage of weapons with reliability flaws. Maybe 85% reliable and 15% unreliable from the factory. Since Kahr is a significant CNC machining company as well as a gun manufacturer, I believe the metal components are likely to have very good and consistent tolerances. This leads me to conclude that there is to much moulding variance in the polymer frame. Anyhow, as said before, all this is not worth it. I will see if I can round me up a Seecamp or get on the list for a Rohrbaugh in .380. GOOD LUCK TO ALL.

[dirtkicker]

Seems to me that you buy a $600 gun and spend another ??? breaking it in you have a $1000 gun. Ridiculous. Should never happen.

[RRP]

~
Had 4 slide lock backs before the clips were empty. ~

Many of us have had this problem with the P380. And with other tiny pistols, too.

It's not always a weapon malfunction. It takes a vigilant and conscious effort to ensure the shooter's thumbs are clear of the slide lock, every time the trigger is pulled. And with such tiny pistols, that's hard to do! The frame simply isn't large enough for our thumbs.

Try shooting with your left hand. That ensures the thumbs are clear of the slide lock. Use a crush grip, otherwise you may have cycling problems. If you can't duplicate the premature slide lock-backs when shooting left-handed, it was probably never the gun's fault. Hopefully it's something this simple, and you can begin enjoying your P380. It really is a nice little package.

BTW, many manufacturers of sub-compact pistols eliminate the hold-open feature on the last round. It's not because they can't design a slide lock. They know many shooters will inadvertently bump the slide lock and blame the pistol. It's easier to delete the feature, than to train the shooter. And when we're frustrated that our new gun is not working the way we want, we don't want to hear that it could be our own technique that's causing the problem.

I hope you find an easy solution that resolves your frustration. Merry Christmas.

[DKD]

RRP is absolutley right. It seems pretty obvious to me that the pistol design may not fit your hand or your style of holding said pistol. I would also like to add that one should never run a brand new pistol dry during the break in period. This is especially true when you have a micro design with very close tolerance as is the case with these small Kahr's.
I don't want to sound smugg, but I can't help but feel some of the issues you were having may have been self inflicted.

[WNC]

NAH, I am left eye dominant. I have shot left handed since I was about 11 years old. The gun is the problem. What a HEADACHE. I have a Keltec p-32, smaller than even the Kahr, have shot several hundred rounds without a single failure. I cannot run a single clip though the Kahr without having some failure. Keltec does not come to mind as a bastion of high quality firearms, but it is reliable. Cannot say that for the Kahr that cost almost double.

[kerby9mm]

Even if it is shooter induced what would happen if it had to be used. More chance of shooter error? My p238 has never malfunctioned with any ammo or anyone that shot it. Yea I know apples to oranges but it is still a micro. IMO too many problems reported with the p380 to be operator induced and not the gun.

[wilburfan]

Check out your slide release. I sent mine back twice and I finially fixed it myself! I found the inside protion of the slide release was too long. The portion that the magazine release pushes up was actually catching on the bullet in the magagine and not allowing it to feed up the ramp into the barrel. Take the slide off and put a loaded magazine in and see if the bullet pushes up the release. If so, you can file it off SLIGHTLY. Worked for me now 100% function..

[WNC]

Thanks Wilburfan, finally a practical bit of advice on a potential cause for the problem. I will check this out tomorrow. Thanks WNC.

[RRP]

Thanks Wilburfan, finally a practical bit of advice on a potential cause for the problem. I will check this out tomorrow. Thanks WNC.

Interesting way to show your appreciation to all others who tried to help you. Good luck to you.

[DKD]

Well "Bah Humbug" ! All I have to say is RASBERRIES.....
As time has gone by I find myself getting less patient with those who think they know everthing about firearms. Mind you I only been shooting and reloading for fifty years and counting.....military trained,Infantry School Cadre, and certified NRA Instructor, but who's counting / what the hell do I know?

But what I can't seem to understand is why some folks take what one says out of context especially when you are trying to help them.
Never said that the little P380 didn't have it's teething problems, just stated that a large number of the reported problems are operator error. Also I find it interesting to note that many are so quick to find blame with the pistol and or design. Every pistol even ones that are similar in size regardless of manufacrure are in fact individuals. P.S. I also have had a Sig P238 so let the record show that and they are not similar in design or function. Anyone that would make that statement and their logic is in error.

[WNC]

P380 update. Well the last 50 rounds have finally run well. The problem with the slide lock back must be the slide lock lever spring. I removed it and repositioned and tightened the spring. To anyone who has problems with the 380, chances are it is NOT SHOOTER error. I know some keep buying into the idea that if there are failure to feeds , failure to return to battery, premature slide lock back, then the shooter must be limp wristing, thumbing the slide lock lever, unfamiliar with small guns, etc. After 7 components replaced at the factory, filing a burr from the trigger bar myself, and re-tensioning the slide lock lever spring after it came back from the factory; IT IS THE GUN. THE lesson: if you have a new P380 and have problems, instead of doubting your handling of it, just go ahead and send it back for the warranty work.

[K.C.]

WNC add your serial number to this thread......

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8708&highlight=p380+serial+number

[JustinN]

P380 update. Well the last 50 rounds have finally run well. The problem with the slide lock back must be the slide lock lever spring. I removed it and repositioned and tightened the spring. To anyone who has problems with the 380, chances are it is NOT SHOOTER error. I know some keep buying into the idea that if there are failure to feeds , failure to return to battery, premature slide lock back, then the shooter must be limp wristing, thumbing the slide lock lever, unfamiliar with small guns, etc. After 7 components replaced at the factory, filing a burr from the trigger bar myself, and re-tensioning the slide lock lever spring after it came back from the factory; IT IS THE GUN. THE lesson: if you have a new P380 and have problems, instead of doubting your handling of it, just go ahead and send it back for the warranty work.

How hard is it to double check your handling/shoot off handed a few rounds, before you claim it is the gun and wait a couple weeks without, to possibly find out there was nothing wrong with it. Yes, your gun had problems. That does not mean that any person who shoots a P380 and has a problem should immediately send it back for warranty work. Most of the guys will tell you when there is a problem with the gun, Send it back and Kahr will make it right...BUT when its something that has been seen over and over and over again that is in fact a user handling issue, and its as simple as letting someone else shoot it, shoot it left handed, etc, why not try the quick, simple, easy, cheap route FIRST, and if you then figure out it is not the handling, by all means send it back.

To tell people to try no troubleshooting at all on your, to never assume you could be at fault, it MUST be the gun,is bad advice. Yes there are bad guns, but there are also shooters with bad form that can cause just as many problems with a perfectly good gun as a bad gun can cause a shooter with good form.

[jetflyr]

My new P380 was definitely a little picky when I first started putting rounds through it. I have large hands and I was definitely accidentally touching the slide release and causing the slide to lock back prematurely. I definitely want to be sure there's something wrong before I send it in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Flincher]

For my P380, I followed the owners manual, advice on clean/lube/breakin on this forum and a couple other reputable review sites, and followed the lube guide ( also avaiable on this forum. Then I polished the feed ramp and chamber (very important) to mirror shine with a dremel. All before I fired a shot. I'm now up to 300 rounds down range slow fire, rapid fire, tactical rapid fire, and 6 and 7 round mags. Federal, MagTech, and Fiocci 95 grain FMJ Without a single failure of any kind. After each 100 rounds I'll drop a little lube ( thicker stuff like Hoppes--not thin stuff like Rem-Oil). In the next couple days I'll take her down and thoroghly clean since round 1.:):)

[XD40SC]

P380 update. Well the last 50 rounds have finally run well. The problem with the slide lock back must be the slide lock lever spring. I removed it and repositioned and tightened the spring. .

Some pictures and detailing specifically what you did would be a great help to others (like me) that are in the same boat. That's what makes this forum so great in that sharing ones successes helps others not having to reinvent the wheel. Thanks in advance for some more info and glad you got her running smooth!

[TheTman]

I thought they had them running better out of the box. Why would anyone buy a finicky P380, when the CM9 is available for much less, and has a good repuation.
No offense meant, but I'd rather have the reliability and extra energy of the CM9.

[Cokeman]

The CM9 doesn't serve the same purpose.

[XD40SC]

Sure did (thx), also read this one http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/07/great-380-fmj-jhp-ammo-test-results.html and decided on Rem UMC (#13 & 33 on his list) as it seemed to have favorable results and is locally available. My last 80 rounds were:
12/7/12 50 rds. Remington 95 gr. FMJ 7 FTF, 2 FRB, 1 SP
30 rds. Remington 88 gr. JHP 5 FTF, 2 FRB (About half of these malfunctions were when my Mrs. was shooting, might have been caused by limp wrist, but when I was shooting, paid particular attention to that and finger/thumb placement so as not to contribute to any of the FTF.)


Totals 402 rds. shot, 28 FTF, 5 FRB, 1 SP


I agree with Jocko, time for this one to go home. Thanks all for the advice, will report back what goes from here.

Since this post, have sent the little P380 back to Kahr a total of 3X! Each time returned had parts replaced such as broker extractor, new springs and a new slide stop. After each return, still had FRB or FTF issues. This time it seemed to run better, but still had a few FTF with the Rem 88gr. JHP. I tried a box of Aguila 95gr. round nose and it worked flawlessly! Funny thing the Rem JHP seems with a few rounds to hang up on the ramp (magnifying glass reveals a bit of abrasion halfway between the bullet tip and case) and repeated attempts to cycle those bullets were fruitless. The supposedly cheaper Aguila works great as does my SD Federal JHP 90 gr. Hydra-shok. Both the Rem and Aguila + the Federal when fired rapid fire both work fine so cycling seems to be more finicky with the Rem 88 grain which could be a combination of grip and not enough blow back compared to the Aguila and Fed. Hopefully someone who is more knowledgeable than I on loads can chime in on this.

One other issue, I have three mags ( 1 -7rd., 2 -6rd.) that do not lock back when hand racking the slide empty. I did the mag fix (sanding down the follower to keep from hanging up) but did a poor job and didn't follow Greg's instructions closely enough. http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=15667&postcount=2 I sanded the follower, but wasn't careful enough when doing so allowing the emerycloth to come in contact with the left hand side (viewed from above) and apparently removed just a tad bit of material from the locking point. This prevents the slide from locking back on the two magazines that I modified, but not the 6 rd. one I did not mess with. Anyone have a couple of magazine followers they don't need? :confused: Not sorry I got this little beast, just would've liked to had an easier time with the break in,http://www.kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=14512&postcount=1 but then I didn't see the break-in prep article by jocko until after all my grief started.

I do need to mention that Kahr's Customer Service is top notch! They paid for shipping both ways every time, didn't get discouraged and listened to my gripes and made it right.

[jocko]

MyP380 hated 102 grain golden sabre. It seemed to work with the other brands I tred. I now carry corbon powerball in it and it is fine. The 102 grain wasnot a real deal breaker with me either. I just tried the ammo to see if I like it, and when it dodn't produce for me I just ofund a good defense round that did. I really wold not even callmy P380 ammo sensitive due to this one type of remington round that it didnb'tlike. My thought today after over a 1000 rounds since I quit using it was that maybe today it would work OK but I really could care less. I am satisfied with the powerball.