Fte??

[newpm9er]

I have an older model K series and carry it quite a bit and don't shoot it as much. My gripe I have with mine is after every night when I drop the magazine out is that I cannot extract the one in the pipe for anything that I've tried aside from shooting it out!! :(

Is this normal? I also have the P9 and PM9 which does not have the same issue. I'm wondering if its a simple extractor spring replacement resolution?

Thx.

[kerby9mm]

Drop the slide out? Does the extractor pull the round out of the chamber when you pull the slidr back? Do you load from the mag or put one in the chamber then drop the slide on it? Can you describe the problem in more detail?

[Ikeo74]

It sounds like you may be shooting reloads and the overall length of the reload bullets is too long and they are jamming into the rifling and getting stuck. They jamb in there tight enough that you can not hand eject them. Are they reloads?

[CJB]

If they get stuck in the chamber... they ain't reloads, they is re-mangles. Loaded by folks who don't have an ounce of understanding

[newpm9er]

oops...sorry. I fixed my wording from 'slide' to magazine' :)



Drop the slide out? Does the extractor pull the round out of the chamber when you pull the slidr back? Do you load from the mag or put one in the chamber then drop the slide on it? Can you describe the problem in more detail?

[newpm9er]

These are not reloads, but carry ammo. I have had this with several different brands of carry ammo and having the same issue with it; Remington Golden Sabers, Federal are the two more commonly used ones.

[Bongo Boy]

I'd put the front of the slide on the edge of a block of wood (such as table or workbench), then give the grip of the gun a good whack with my hand.

Inspect the cartridge you've just extracted, looking for any sign of rifling engagement around the bullet, near the case mouth. It does sound like that's what's happening--long loads, where the bullet isn't seated deeply enough, getting jammed into the rifling.

[Ikeo74]

I have an older model K series and carry it quite a bit and don't shoot it as much. My gripe I have with mine is after every night when I drop the magazine out is that I cannot extract the one in the pipe for anything that I've tried aside from shooting it out!! :(

Is this normal? I also have the P9 and PM9 which does not have the same issue. I'm wondering if its a simple extractor spring replacement resolution?

Thx.
I guess the next question we need answered before we can determine the problem is this: Does the slide open, but not withdraw the bullet? Or, does the slide not open at all, and remains "closed and in battery", and you can not open the slide?

[newpm9er]

The slides does open but NOT withdraw the bullet. Only once out of some luck while I was pulling out some of the other guns to clean and decided to give it a try again that the chambered round popped out! I was happy about it and figured since I was going to clean the other guns that I would take this one down and touch it with oil a bit.

Well..after that I put in a snap cap and test fired it along with racking the slide with another snap cap in the mag, it seemed all well again! or so I thought at least till I put in my carry loads. :/

I'll try and post pics of what its stuck at later on tonight.

[Ikeo74]

Good, we may have narrowed the problem down to 3 things: 1) dirty chamber, 2) bad extractor, 3) bad extractor spring.

We will wait and see if a good wire brush and oiling of the chamber fixed it! If you didn't use a copper brush rotated in the chamber to remove residue, do it before shooting the live ammo, then lightly oil again..

We would like to see your pictures too, so post them later for us.

[newpm9er]

I'm leaning towards #2 and #3 as the chamber was and still clean when it happens.

[gb6491]

newpm9er,
Have you disassembled the slide and cleaned all the extractor parts (to include the tunnel in the slide)?
Regards
Greg

[CJB]

and take a good look at the lip on the extractor too... make sure its intact, not chipped or broken

[newpm9er]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/whong99/IMG_2899.jpg

at another angle

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/whong99/IMG_2900.jpg

Kind of hard to see I guess..but it doesn't look like the extractor is engaging it. and do recall at the last range session I didn't have any issues after each shot and I ran through about 150-200 rounds that session on this very one gun.

[newpm9er]

No, I've not disassembled the slide as it would be beyond my mechanical skill set :D.

Man's gotta know is limits ... ;)

But seriously...you really think the extractor part would be fault? If so, would be kind of sad to see the PM9's quality best this out as it never experienced this issue...ever!



newpm9er,
Have you disassembled the slide and cleaned all the extractor parts (to include the tunnel in the slide)?
Regards
Greg

[Bawanna]

I think you just need to rack it with a little more gusto. the extractor is engaging or it wouldn't pull the case that far back. You can see the bullet is getting hung on the front of the ejection port.

I'd tilt the gun to the right a tad, gravity is your friend and really pull that slide back as far as it will go with gusto.
I frequently can't do it in sling shot mode as your doing in the picture but use an overhand push my hands together to make it happen.

Some rounds may eject better than others based on the cartridge overall length.

As Greg suggested the extractor and chain and tunnel would be my next look see. And it's really not tough. I agree a man has to know his limitation but it really isn't tough. Perhaps challenging first time but after that you'll realize how easy it really is.

You might benefit from removing just a tiny bit of metal right where that bullet is hanging. If you look at your picture everything is starting to do just what it's suppose to. The bullet end is angling to the right on it's way out, so the ejector is pushing, the extractor is pulling.
So it's either a gusto issue or needs just a tad more clearance.

Don't give up and don't get frustrated, that K series is the best.

[newpm9er]

Is there a video somewhere that shows how to disassemble the slide components somewhere?

thx.

[JFootin]

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=197

[jocko]

I go with bawanna on ALITTLE MORE GUSTOO..

[Ikeo74]

Your pictures are excellent. You must have a helper or 3 hands.

[newpm9er]

I'll try to disassemble the slide sometimes this weekend and see.

[Ikeo74]

I starting to think there is no ejection problem at all. The bullets eject when fired. When you hand eject they look like your pictures, which is the way they should look. Are you racking the slide with the ejection port facing down so that bullet can drop freely out by gravity as it is designed to do? Or, are you hand racking it while holding the gun upright and expecting the bullet to fly out 6 feet like it does when fired? The ejector does not grab the bullet, it just pulls it out from 1 side until it hits the back of the slide which pushes the case outward toward the ejector port but does not spring it out, it only tilts it that way. The force of recoil is what gives enough strength to flip it out of the gun. When you hand rack it it is not ever going to fly out of the gun, only drop out. Am I missing your point here?

[jocko]

I think Ikeo74 is correct. If it ejects when firing andnot when hand racking, it is shooter error.

Practice does not make perfect but perfect practice does. Give the gun and yourself some more time together to..

[newpm9er]

The bullet does not fall out freely and even with the help of a third hand trying to pry it out.

[PattayaPistol]

I'm inclined to go along with the gusto theory. It looks to me like you aren't retracting the slide all the way, which might imply a little more force is needed. Possibly get a nice strong overhand grip rather than just finger and thumb, and then give it your best.

Good luck.

PP

[newpm9er]

Hmm...read the pdf. Looks like I will need to read it a couple of more times to get comfortable with it and see if there's anything up on youtube ;) to take apart and re-assemble.

[Bongo Boy]

Is this factory ammo? That bullet, which looks like a Golden Sabre, doesn't look like it's even seated in the case to my eye. I don't see much 9mm ammo so it just looks like its hanging out in space to me. Seem normal to everyone?

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/40SWLoads.jpg

What am I missing?

The extractor is extracting and looks to be behaving perfectly normal to me.
The slide is not retracted fully, and has at least another 1/8" to go if not another 3/16", to my eyeball at least.
Retracting the slide slowly won't always provide a satisfying result because the base of the case isn't hitting the ejector hard enough to flip the case out from under the extractor.


I think Ikeo74 is correct. If it ejects when firing and not when hand racking, it is shooter error.

Well, not necessarily. The cartridge is a LOT shorter after it's been fired. :)


I'll try to disassemble the slide sometimes this weekend and see.

I wouldn't. There's nothing to indicate to me there's anything wrong with the extractor--it's extracting. You are NOT failing to extract--you're failing to eject. And the reason, from your photos, is there isn't enough clearance for the live round to eject.

The slide is not all the way back--it is either not being retracted with enough oomph, OR, there is something physically preventing it from being retracted (unlikely if the gun is cycling okay). In this case, it appears that what's preventing it from being retracted is the fact that the round is being forced into the shroud by the ejector.

So...you've pulled the slide back until the case hits the ejector, the ejector swings the cartridge out, the cartridge hits the barrel and can't swing any further. The harder you pull the slide back, the more force the ejector puts on the case, and the harder the case is jammed into the shroud/barrel. Any further force rearward on the slide simply applies more leverage on the cartridge against the gun--it's jammed.

The cartridge simply appears to me to be too long. Is this really factory ammo?

[newpm9er]

Yes, this is really factory ammo. Golden Sabre is what I have been using and test firing with with no issues till this one. You could be right that the bullet itself could probably not been seated all the way in.

On another note, I had a third hand using a pen help me pop out the stuck round. All the other subsequent rounds had no issues to cycle through. So I'm going to conclude that it was the bullet itself. Testing that same bullet in my Glocks/CZ didn't have any issues. Then again, their ejection ports are also slightly bigger too.

Thanks again everyone for their help and thoughts.

Cheers.

[Ikeo74]

Your second full size picture, looking down on the gun as you are ejecting the bullet. It looks like that bullet is stretched beyond normal OAL. Another theory as why they are not falling out is this. When loading the bullet into the chamber, it might be jambing into the lands and getting into a bind. When you try to hand eject it, the bullet is pulled from the case and thus becomes too long to eject. Measure a new bullet and one you have cycled through the gun to see if the cycled one becomes longer than a new one. Also look for scratch marks on the tip of the bullet. This identical problem would not show up when chambered into a different gun.
I am writing this because I feel we have not solved the probley yet.

[Bongo Boy]

When loading the bullet into the chamber, it might be jambing into the lands and getting into a bind. When you try to hand eject it, the bullet is pulled from the case and thus becomes too long to eject.

Good one! Didn't think of that possibility.

[jocko]

that round looks odd, indeed the bullet does look longer thanit should. If so It will lodge in the rifling and then possble upon manual ejection it might get pulled out some even..

Manual ejection of a live round in these small ass guns if not done right will hang up. If the rounds are not out of spec, then it is not the guns fault but user error. Over time one will master it with ease. U just cannot pus$y foot that slide back and expect that round to come flying out. IT WON'T

The roundu pictured looks suspicious. Just sayin

[newpm9er]

That former bullet did seem to be the root cause and was jammed in pretty tight. With the help of a third hand I was able to get it out and measured it against several other factory rounds from the same box and it did indeed appear to be longer.

I put the same round into my Glocks and others and was able to cycle through with no issues. I ended up shooting off this round at the range just to eliminate any further issues in any of my Kahrs.



Your second full size picture, looking down on the gun as you are ejecting the bullet. It looks like that bullet is stretched beyond normal OAL. Another theory as why they are not falling out is this. When loading the bullet into the chamber, it might be jambing into the lands and getting into a bind. When you try to hand eject it, the bullet is pulled from the case and thus becomes too long to eject. Measure a new bullet and one you have cycled through the gun to see if the cycled one becomes longer than a new one. Also look for scratch marks on the tip of the bullet. This identical problem would not show up when chambered into a different gun.
I am writing this because I feel we have not solved the probley yet.