Slide Problem

[slowngreen]

Ive seen a few threads about this but not sure if Ive really found a solution.

Ive only put 50 rounds through my cw45 but pretty much every round doesnt fully load and the slide catches with 1/4-1/8" left to go. Been using 230 Tulammo. When I cycle it by hand, I see the bullets are getting scarred somewhere in the process.
I just got a box of 185g Remingtons, which do fine. Is the extra length of the Tulammo always going to do this? I like it for target practice since I can afford it lol.
I emailed Kahr and they just said its not broken in, but that doesnt seem like all its going to need, maybe Im wrong?

[Bawanna]

I'd say it will get better and it isn't broke in yet but what I would do is lock the slide back and drop one of them Tula's in the chamber. Push it in with your finger hard as you can.
Then flip the gun so it's pointed straight up and see if that Tula falls out of it's own free will.

If it falls out, I'd keep shooting and see if it gets better. If it doesn't fall out it's probably a tad too long in over all length and most likely will never get better.

Try some Blazer brass or aluminum or Winchester white box etc and I bet it will run just fine. I suspect them Tula's are a tad long.

[slowngreen]

Ok good advice. I tried it, would fall out, took a good amount of pressure to get it to come back out too.
Im pretty new to this but, I picked up 1000 230 bullets for random brass I bought to reload, Ive not guy dies yet or Id try one out but does this likely mean they will be the same length as the tulammo 230's and not work well either?

First bullet I tried to use was a hornady, only had one though from an old box I had, it was the same problem.

[Bawanna]

When you load you can determine the over all length. The bullet doesn't control that. If need be you just seat it slightly deeper using the chamber test as a guideline.

If it doesn't fall out, either the chamber is in need of polishing (not likely but possible) or the bullet is contacting the rifling and getting stuck. That's what I think is happening.

[MW surveyor]

Take the barrel out of the gun. Insert one of the tula rounds into the chamber by just dropping it in. Is the base of the round flush with the barrel hood or extended beyond the hood? If it is beyond the barrel hood, the round is too long as the bullet is touching the lands.

[slowngreen]

Yep sure enough it hits teh Lands/riflings.

So Tulammo probably seats all there bullets the same right? So just need to give up on them, or do you think this is something they would replace with new "shorter" rounds?

[jocko]

I bought 5 boxes of 9mm tulamo ammo and it is the only round in my K9 that gives that gun fits, so they can stick that ammo for ol jocko anyhow where the sun does ot shine. I thought I was saving a few bucks, and I did but no more. although for range fodder and if u don't mind some hiccups which will then give you the TAP, RACK, BANG DRILLS, which is good training also, then it is OK.

Some members here have zero issues, so go figure.

[MW surveyor]

Yep sure enough it hits teh Lands/riflings.

So Tulammo probably seats all there bullets the same right? So just need to give up on them, or do you think this is something they would replace with new "shorter" rounds?

Do you have any calipers that you could measure the OAL of the rounds? The may be out of spec. I really doubt that Tulaammo will replace the rounds. I hope that you don't have a lot of them. The only thing that you could really try that might work is to seat them a bit deeper if you have a press and 45 dies.

Ooops, just reread your first post and you don't have any dies yet.

BTW - when you do start reloading, you can set the OAL to conform to your chamber so unless the chamber is way out of spec, you will probably be OK. Also, saw that the 185 grains worked so you are probably good to go.

[rwehnau]

Mine does not Tula ammo for sure. Winchester white box feeds just fine. They seem to be picky with some brands of ammo.

[Charlie98]

OAL and how a cartridge chambers is also dependant on the ogive profile of the bullet... not so much with handgun rounds but more with rifle bullets... but I've seen it in handguns.

OP, once you get into reloading, remember to work up a few 'test' rounds... rounds resized and with a bullet seated and crimped, but with no primer or powder. Then do the drop-in test to see if they have chambering problems with your barrel... before you load a bunch of them up.

[SSL]

I had the same problem with lead SWC handloaded cartridges in my CW45. Bumped the bullets back a few thousandths and now they feed flawlessly. Everyone has given you good info. Your problems (cheaper ammo and feeding) should end when you start loading and find that sweet spot. Good luck.

[slowngreen]

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

I put dies on my Christmas list. Have a RCBS jr. setup.

Heres a pic of the ammo length just for reference.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x193/slowngreen/IMAG0049.jpg

[getsome]

Hello slowngreen, Welcome to Kahrtalk...Lots of real nice knowledgeable friendly folks here that can help you work through any problems with your Kahr or reloading....Like everyone else said it looks like the Tula rounds are just a shade too long for your pistol...

Don't over complicate reloading and get all wrapped up in the exact over all length deal just find some factory rounds the pistol will shoot reliably like Winchester White Box or Remington range ammo with 230 grain FMJ and when you go to reload use those calipers to measure the factory ammo length then set your bullet seating die to the same length and it should work fine...

Kahr pistols are sometimes a little picky about what will and won't work....Some have had problems with Remington Golden Saber carry ammo since they are a tad longer than most good factory stuff...Some guns will shoot it just fine and others won't....

What Kahr told you about the break in period is correct and very important to go by, they say 200 rounds but it may take 500-600 rounds before your pistol settles down and is 100% reliable with your chosen ammo...If I were you I would try and find someone to trade the Tula to or shoot in in another gun that will feed it and find some Walmart range ammo to break in your gun rather than fight through all the Tula FTF FTE problems and use the break in period to get familiar with your guns sights and long trigger pull rather than the aggrevation of trying to clear jam after jam caused by the too long Tula ammo...

good luck and let us know how it works for you and again welcome aboard...

[Bawanna]

If I'm reading that caliper right, (been so long using a dial, can't hardly read the others) that cartridge is considerably long.

I think most books call 1.230 as max overall length. I'm well under that with my reloads. I don't recall exactly but I'm thinking around 1.224 or so. They run in everything now. At 1.230 they balked some in my PM45.

[slowngreen]

Thanks guys. Im def not worried about the Tulammo, just glad to know for sure now what the problem is.
Going through a box of Remington Target's right now which I like.

[gb6491]

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

I put dies on my Christmas list. Have a RCBS jr. setup.

Heres a pic of the ammo length just for reference.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x193/slowngreen/IMAG0049.jpg

I'm reading that caliper at just a shade over 31mm. 31mm is 1.220", 32mm is 1.259; my Speer manual list the max cartridge length for .45ACP as 1.275".

OAL and how a cartridge chambers is also dependant on the ogive profile of the bullet... not so much with handgun rounds but more with rifle bullets... but I've seen it in handguns.

OP, once you get into reloading, remember to work up a few 'test' rounds... rounds resized and with a bullet seated and crimped, but with no primer or powder. Then do the drop-in test to see if they have chambering problems with your barrel... before you load a bunch of them up.
I think Charlie has hit upon the culprit. The cartridge's oal is within spec., but the bullet's ogive is contacting the rifling before the round is completely chambered. I see that the 185 grain stuff is working for you, but I'd give it a try with some other make of 230 gr. ammo. There's a chance that the barrel might need a bit of finish reaming.
Regards,
Greg

[slowngreen]

I'll try to pick up some tomorrow then and try it out. So the ogive is basically the shape of the bullet out side of the shell right? If that turns out to be the case, is that something Kahr would take care of?

[MW surveyor]

"If that turns out to be the case, is that something Kahr would take care of?"
No, Kahr does not make ammo. They might, and this would be really stretching, relive the barrel so that it would load this type of ammo. You really need to try some other brand 230 grain FMJ ammo first.

The ogive is the shape of the bullet and it starts at the point where it transitions from full caliber/parallel sides and ends at its nose.

Charlie98 is correct about the ogive and not the OAL of the round.

If you look closely at the picture, the bullet looks somewhat deformed.

BTW - you might want to put a set of dial calipers on your Christmas list. They will be easier to read than what you have.

[slowngreen]

Ok so if it is the ogive of the tulammo and Ive tried 100 rds, I have two boxes, and everyone does it, then its my barrel and not really the ammo right? Do I need to contact kahr? Is there any DIY to this?

[gb6491]

I'll try to pick up some tomorrow then and try it out. So the ogive is basically the shape of the bullet out side of the shell right? If that turns out to be the case, is that something Kahr would take care of?
That's pretty much correct (I like this definition: "the curve of a bullet's forward section"). If it's severe enough (a wide range of 230gr ball won't feed correctly) Kahr should fix it. On the other hand, my SA XD-S would have feed problems similar to what you describe for your Tula ammo when I used 230gr Hornady XTP in it. I just avoided using the XTP, then after several hundred rounds of other ammo down range, I revisited the XTP and found it would feed without problem. So it is possible that it can work itself out.
Regards,
Greg

[slowngreen]

Thats likely what I'll do, just use ammo that fits lol, then hopefully down the road it will all work.

[MW surveyor]

Run your finger tip over the ogive of that round you've shown in the photo. For some reason, it does not look smooth to me.

[Bawanna]

My very old Hornady book doesn't show anything longer than 1.230?

[gb6491]

My very old Hornady book doesn't show anything longer than 1.230?
Hmm, my Speer book is no spring chicken; it's the 12th Edition, says first printing 1994.
http://i48.tinypic.com/m7coxt.jpg
Ooh, I just found a download link for it and some other reloading info:
http://www.4shared.com/office/XGtTyPLl/speer_reloading_manual_-_12th_.html (I just joined that site and I'm trying a free download of "Cartridges of the World" right now).

If you're adventuresome, here's a pretty comprehensive data base of .45ACP loads: http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20ACP&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source
Regards,
Greg

[Bawanna]

Wonder how they can accurately measure the crimp on some of those loads.

Looks like Titegroup or Clays might be a clean burning powder to try someday.

I'm not warm and fuzzy trying loads till I can find a book that tells me solid facts but none of those loads sounded extreme to me but I worry a lot.

[slowngreen]

Ok I just bought some blazer 230gn and they fit fine. Didn't bring a tulammo with me bit the blazer is about the same size as the rem 185gn oal.