PM9 more reliable than P380?

[Retlawman590]

Hi,

I don't own either one yet, but after doing research it seems that the PM9 had fewer complaints than the P380. Are there folks out there that have owned both? Is this true? Is the trigger pull the same? I'm torn between the two. I like the 9 for its firepower and the .380 for its smaller size.
Thanks

[Popeye]

Some might not agree but I think the smaller the pistols the more finicky they become. The larger pistols can tolerate suttle differences in the gun itself, and the ammo used, as well as the the people using them. Some gun designs just seem to work better then others when you start shrinking the original design down. I would never spend large money on a pistol that shoots such a limited round. Imo the PM/CM 9 is the perfect size and caliber CC pistol.

[Bill K]

Certainly not scientific but from being on this board for awhile and reading about both guns I would say yes, an out of the box PM/CM9 is likely to be more reliable than the P380. I also concur with the above post by Popeye.

[Jeff00042]

I've owned the PM9 and 2 P380s. I no longer own a P380. My second P380 was more reliable than the first but not reliable enough for personal defense. This is after careful prep when new and 1000 rounds through each 380. For a 380 of comparable size, I've had excellent luck with my Ruger LCP. It is not as fun to shoot as the P380 but it always goes bang (1400+ times). In contrast, my PM9 has been flawless through about 900 rounds. It's a keeper.

[mser]

In total agreement with the three previous posts. Like Jeff, I'm a former P380 owner. I'm sure there are many satisfied P380 owners / carriers out there and although I so badly wanted to, I cannot count myself as among their ranks. Suffice it to say my PM9 has served me well for more than 10 years now.

[gasem]

I have both, as well as a P3AT. I carried the P3AT for some years, and after some initial issues it is now flawless with anything I shove in its pipe. After about 500 rounds my PM9 has become flawless to any ammo. The P380 is flawless with certain ammo, but it happens to be the ammo I carry. The reason I bought the p380 is because it is light and small and is able to handle hot commercial loads like underwood, buffalo bore. The P3AT will not handle this kind of ammo except in small doses without becoming unreliable. Penetration tests in calibrated ballistic gel with JHP ammo shows about 11 inches with full expansion in a 2.5 inch barrel. This is similar to tests I have reviewed using critical defense standard pressure 9mm (11.5 inches with full expansion) The buffalo bore flat nose FMJ 95gr shows 17 inch penetration or more. I have read studies that show no matter if you get a torso or head shot from a 22 or 45 the likely hood of fatality for one hit is 16% meaning moat people survive. This rises to 85% with 2 torso or head shots no matter the caliber (there is some variability but these statistics are in the ball park). This means most don't survive and points out the need for accurate shot placement. The PM9 is able to handle heavy 9mm loads so the minimum for the PM9 is about the maximum for the P380 in terms of ballistics. Both the PM9 and P380 have good sights and are very accurate.

The P3AT and the P380 weigh about 12 oz loaded, and are truly pocket pistols. The PM9 is closer to 20 oz loaded and is noticeably larger in the pocket. So it comes down to what is a satisfactory ballistic profile in a gun that you will carry. I think there is a place for both but my main carry gun is the P380 loaded with either Buffalo Bore 95 fmjfn or underwood 90 jhp. My p380 starts acting flaky after about 250 rounds at the range so I always carry a clean gun.

[gm412]

I own a reliable pm9 and a p380 that is back at Kahr for the third time. I would never rely on my p380 but I carry my pm9 almost daily.

[jocko]

I would totally agree with that...
All3 of my big kahrs have been flawless, two were evenbought used. mY p380 BOUGHT NEW HAS been back once, it is reliable today (but I dn't shoot itmuch) I kinda lost faith in it and my PM9 actually goes where ever my P380 did and besides great reliability, the firepower is apples and oranges.

I really need to getoff my ass andretestmy P380. I need to shoot a 100 rounds successfully and then I will call it good to go. Last time I shot it, I fired alittleover 50 flawless rounds through it.

My thoughts are and u might disagree also, but If I can get a 100 perfect rounds out of the gun, I could care less if it starts acting up after that. It would be my ccw gun and it wolud always be cleaned and ready to go and actually the fact that I don't cvarry a spare magazine even. If it went 50 rounds flawlessly I would trust it. I do think these small ass guns are more finicky to more rounds down range than my PM9 which still shoots great at 200 rounds , and again it is always cleaned andi n my pocket so that 200 round perfect stuff is not a necessity. Probably not alot of support for this theory but if u carry no spare mag or one spare mag,that is all that is really necessary in a shitf scenario.

[Engineer88]

I absolutely agree with the statement that the PM/CM is the perfect carry size. I have been carrying for 6 years and have recently settled on the CM9 iwb and a Keltec P32 in the pocket. My breeches never sag, and it is little to no difference from not carrying at all. Backup magazine on my left hand side with a Kabar TDI and a PT1AA flashlight and I am pretty darned well prepared in my opinion. :-)

[jocko]

indeed. I would want u in front of me in a shtf scenario, to keep um busy while I drive 50 miles for help..

[Engineer88]

Hahaha! Jocko, you are assuming we would have gas. ;-)

[WNC]

I bought a p380 in October. It has 240 rounds through it. Failed to feed more than 50% of those rounds. Currently it is at Kahr being "worked on". The design and platform for the p380 is a failed design. There are simple to many complaints and problems I have read about it lately. If I had read more on boards like this I would have avoided the model. If i get it to run will trade it in and take my losses. That is the way it goes. But I will be sure to give the local dealer the grief of his life. That way maybe he will stop caring the model, so others potential buyers will not get duped.

[bonjorno2]

former p380 owner x3... cm9 would be better imo

[Popeye]

As I mentioned I think the PM/CM9 is about as good as it gets for CC. However there are times (Weddings,Funerals,Morning Power Walks,and working around the house.)where nothing beats this inexpensive little pocket pistol. It's an early 2nd Generation P3at. In my tried and true opinion nothing beats the KT P3at or Ruger LCP for reliable little pocket pistols. My P3at might look a little beat up in the picture but let me assure you in real life it looks even worse. :o However that just comes with the territory when it's been through what I've put it through. I do not own one pistol that has been more reliable than this little pistol that many refer to as a POS.:D
707270737074

[muggsy]

I own both a CM9 and P380. Both had teething problems when I first got them, but both have been flawless since the break-in period. I sometimes carry both, but always carry the P380. It doesn't have the stopping power of the 9mm, but it is far easier to conceal and far more comfortable to carry. Any gun is better than no gun and I'm confident with either.

[muggsy]

Hahaha! Jocko, you are assuming we would have gas. ;-)

Jocko would walk the fifty miles for help if he gad to. Just sayin. :)

[tomwalshco]

I have both PM9 & P380 for quite a while. Also have a KT P3AT. Have thousands of rounds through all of them. PM9 now shoots flawlessly. So does the KT. That thing shoots any ammo, all day, every day no matter how dirty. Never jams, even if I limp-wrist it. It's snappier than the P380...... which I really like...... but it's not that reliable. It's OK on the range because I can yank it back into action pretty quickly, but I would never trust it for carry duty. Very nice gun, but my opinion is that the chamber is a hair too narrow and the recoil springs might be just a shade too stout. Almost all of my jams have been in the eject mode. If I hold it with a death grip it runs a little better.........

[DM123]

I/we, my wife and I, both have PM9s & P.380s. Both need to be cleaned as posted here on this forum to be reliable. I use Ballistol as a final lube and have had no issues with reliability. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

[ScottieG59]

I have had a Kahr P380 since they came out and it never earned my trust. I only carried it very occasionally. Now it lives in the safe. After all, it is still a 380 even if the issues were sorted out.

I just bought a Kahr PM9 and it has been a very solid performer. I have in in my picket holster and I may carry it mire than my Glock 27 or 19. At least, it fits my pocket and can be carried in deep concealment. So far, I am a PM9 fan.

[dwg13013]

I have a CM9 and I carry with a smartcarry.
Over the tucked shirt and right under the belt buckle.
Gotta have jeans just a little loose, and the most comfortable
carry I ever tried.
IWB just never worked trying 5 different rigs.
Ankle is ok, but not fast or easy.
In front I have a spare magazine.
I can carry all day every day, and get to it fast.
Nobody sees it because nobody looks there.
I have carried a 4" 1911 and a Glock 30sf.

[JFootin]

I have a CM9 and I carry with a smartcarry.
Over the tucked shirt and right under the belt buckle.
Gotta have jeans just a little loose, and the most comfortable
carry I ever tried.
IWB just never worked trying 5 different rigs.
Ankle is ok, but not fast or easy.
In front I have a spare magazine.
I can carry all day every day, and get to it fast.
Nobody sees it because nobody looks there.
I have carried a 4" 1911 and a Glock 30sf.

I have a SmartCarry holster as well. Haven't carried with it much. When I do, I use suspenders and no belt with my jeans, which are loose enough to work their way over my hips and fall down without support. That arrangement makes for fast access, and is perfectly comfortable all day long.