P380 Never Ending Problems

[fastgun]

Hello, after discussing this issue in other posts I decided to make my problem public in its own posting.

I purchased a new P380 from a stocking dealership. I plan to us it as a backup to my duty weapon. I am a 17 year police officer, NRA Pistol instructor and a Concealed Carry Instructor for my State. I do not claim firearm expertise, but I am not exactly a novice. I also own/have owned other Kahr models.

The new P380 gave me repeated light primer strikes from the start. I sent it to KAHRr at my own expense. They said the barrel appeared to have a chamber that was too deep so they replaced the entire slide assembly and returned it to me. In the 1st magazine of the replaced P380, there were 3 light primer strikes.

I returned the P380 a 2nd time. This time they polished the barrel and replaced the recoil spring and sent it to me. I tried the P380 and in the 1st magazine it had 1st round with light primer strikes the rest of the magazine fired. 2nd magazine the same thing.....light prime strikes mixed with rounds fired.

Each time this is the procedure used. Lock the slide back with the slide lock lever. Insert a full magazine of six rounds. Release the slide with the slide lock lever. Eject the magazine to replace the top round. Gun is now in a 6 + 1 condition. Pull the trigger. In the first 3 magazines, I had 9 light primer strikes. The factory new ammo had a light indent on the primer but would not fire. I tried Hydra Shoks, Golden Saber and CCI ( Independence and Blazer) ball ammo.

I returned the P380 a third time. Package was addressed to Joe Mayo head of Kahrs Customer Service. Next day I spoke to both Jason (?) and Ian Burr. Both said that 100 rounds were fired and there were zero problems. I said I was amazed and but wanted a new gun. Later Joe Mayo called. He said that he fired the P380 and had a jam so he was replacing the barrel and magazines. All was now fine. I said OK send it to me. After a few minutes thinking I called back and told Joe Mayo that I would pay to have Kahr give me a new receiver. I figured that since the slide, barrel and magazines were replaced the only problem could be in the frame I specifically asked for a new trigger bar and cocking cam. Mr. Mayo said that there is no way the problem could be in the frame. The triggerbar and cocking cam could not, would not cause light primer strikes. I said I would give a credit card number to have them replace these parts, Joe repeated again that these parts would not cause light primer strikes. Too much expense for nothing. He told me he had fired 75 rounds and all was OK. So I said OK.

Well, I received the P380 for the 3rd time (4th if you count when new) and tried to fire it. Used the slide release lever procdure as above. 1st round went CLICK. Light indent on primer and did not shoot.

I do not want a refund or a different model …told them so…. all I want is a P380 that works. So I post here not to just complain in public but to ask.

??? WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD CAUSE THIS PROBLEM???
??? What Will FIX THIS PROBLEM ???

The entire top end has been replaced. The only thing not touched by KAHR is the frame. I still think that a slightly out of spec cocking cam would pull the striker back enough to give light strikes but not enough to fire the round. Mr. Mayo said, No way. So I set here with a 3 week old P380 considering if a 4th trip back will be of any use.

[JodyH]

Video tape your range session as evidence of your problem, include shots of the ammo you are using.

[fastgun]

I can video it but really I have no desire to do anything that I need to have evidence for.....ie: lawsuit.

I would many times over prefer to know what is wrong and get it fixed.

[jocko]

damn, it has to be a bad trigger bar, nothing else can cause that. They should have replaced that along with all the other stuff they did. Makes no sense. I am sure this is not the issue but how about spraycleaning that striker channel. use that little home on the bottom of the slide, insert nozzle and spray away, then pullback the striker at the back and put the nozzle up against the breech hole and spray away and fluids should now come out that clean out hole to. I just doubt if tha tis the issue to.

I am PM-ingyou. this is a real mess and should not be PERIOD.

[fastgun]

Jocko thank you for the PM. I replied to it in a PM.

I am so glad to have you reply here. It was some of your past posts on another site that lead me to consider the problem being in the lower end of the gun. Since KAHR has replaced the entire slide once and the barrel and springs 2X with the problem still existing it must be the lower end somewhere.

The trigger bar and cocking cam are about $30 in parts retail. They won't replace these but have given me whole slide assemblies.

It could somehow possibly be me but I do not know how.....if so, this is the only firearm that willl not go boom in my hands that I have ever shot.

I will take the steps you suggested in the PM and will re-post when I get the P380 back.....I hope it will soon be resolved and that I too will have one of the 100% reliable P380s that so many have written about.

[fastgun]

Doing a little more sleuthing.

As I compare my P380 with my PM9 I note that after the PM9's trigger will break and thus release the striker there is at most maybe 1mm of rearward trigger movement left after the trigger breaks.

On the P380 after the trigger breaks and releases the striker there is about 1/4 inch of rearward trigger pull left after the striker is released.

If you any of you could check your P380 and report back back if there is any trigger movement left after the trigger breaks I would enjoy hearing it.
If so how much rearward trigger movement is left after the trigger breaks.

[mrsig239]

I don't know why and I wont say it is the shooter but I brought my PM9 out the other day and shot 160 rounds without a problem. Today I went out with my buddy and let him shoot it and he had three light primer strikes. I shot the rest of the box and his three misfires and they all went off no problem.
Now he is no newbie either, Ma. state police with lots of training and master shot. Maybe it is something you both do with the trigger?

[jocko]

that is one of the things that fast gun is going to check out also. I just have a very sneaky feeling he has a bad trigger bar, far more than the shooter issue but I advised him to eliminate the possables. One has to completely let up on the trigger to get the entire trigger length pull but again most guns all work that way to. so it is not like a new learning process.

but things do happen to. How many have reported premature slide locking open, 0nly to find out later on that indeed their thumb was doing the engaging. Sometimes the obvious is so obvious that we just feel it cannot be..

For sure if one is going to have to send his P3890 back for the 3rd time, one needs to eliminate every possable variable that could be related to the shooter.. I woud like to think also that kahr in the two times it had it back, surely to god tested this gun out every which way to before sending it back.

I went thorugh tis similar situation with my 3 kel tecs, to no avail ever either, only I had to send my 3 back many more times...

[fastgun]

It could very well be some kind of voodoo.

I wonder if a person could lock the slide back, put in a full magazine, release the slide lock lever to chamber a round, then somehow finagle the trigger so that the striker is released but only enough to make a dent on the primer of the round in the chamber.

Maybe it could be done somehow.

But you know, when you send something in this many times and each time the repair person tells you on the phone that it works just perfect for them you sort of begin to wonder about voodoo.

[jocko]

It is easy to blame the shooter and my intentions are never that. BUT one has to eliminate all the possables. locking the slide back and loading a round that way, surely cannot produce light strikes from the shooter part. That to me is a out of spec trigger bar. I stand by that until kahr proves otherwise. I think they replaced stuff on your gun fully not knowing what the problem really was even. So much of this is done in the auto industry today. Nobody seems to have the mechanical skills to fix anything, just the skills to replace a part with a new one and then cross their fingers...

My hat is off to you though for you have "so far" handled this with total class. I probably would have been in my car headed for a 1000 mile trip and sitting on kahrs doorsteps Monday morning with my trusty reliable P380 that doesn't work..

[racuda]

Doing a little more sleuthing.

As I compare my P380 with my PM9 I note that after the PM9's trigger will break and thus release the striker there is at most maybe 1mm of rearward trigger movement left after the trigger breaks.

On the P380 after the trigger breaks and releases the striker there is about 1/4 inch of rearward trigger pull left after the striker is released.

If you any of you could check your P380 and report back back if there is any trigger movement left after the trigger breaks I would enjoy hearing it.
If so how much rearward trigger movement is left after the trigger breaks.

As requested, I checked mine and I also have about a 1/4 inch of travel after the trigger breaks. I have never had a light strike, or any failure to fire in 400 rounds.

[PUDD]

I had the same problems you are having. Kahr replaced the trigger bar and it is 100% now.

[fastgun]

Thanks to all of you who have replied.

I will be contacting Kahr on Monday, March 22.
Hopefully they will get this P380 issue cleared up.

None of this is intended to make Kahr nor anyone at Kahr look bad.
They have a fine line of firearms. My PM9 serves me well.
I have been well supported by the people in parts and customer service in the past, no doubt this will be true in the future.

Whatever happens I will post here again and tell you about it.

Thanks

[Jim K]

Thanks to all of you who have replied.

I will be contacting Kahr on Monday, March 22.
Hopefully they will get this P380 issue cleared up.

None of this is intended to make Kahr nor anyone at Kahr look bad.
They have a fine line of firearms. My PM9 serves me well.
I have been well supported by the people in parts and customer service in the past, no doubt this will be true in the future.

Whatever happens I will post here again and tell you about it.

Thanks

Don't worry, customer service is very good. It may take a few round trips to get your's fixed but they will stand behind their product.

From this view it looks like quality management and quality assurance is lame. You cannot inspect quality into a product, you must manage the process. Quality assurance is not enough. Perhaps the parts are made by CNC out of house and assembled elsewhere. Just a guess but there has to be some reason for the problem product.

Maybe you haven't fired enough rounds down range? :eek:

Good luck

[Mr. Zero]

I offer no help on this, but I too want to comment on the professional and polite manner the OP has been able to muster during this frustrating ordeal. I wish I could have customers that were this understanding and willing to work through an issue.

You of all people deserve a gun that works.

Good luck!

[fastgun]

Well I am back to give a followup on my P380 story.

As you know from reading this post, this gun gave me repeated light primer strikes and I sent it in 3 times previous. I called Kahr Customer Service on Monday morning and explained all that had been going on. To my never ending relief the kind gentleman said, "I know what what we are going to do, we are going to give you a new gun". As fast as I could I said OK..
He then gave me a billing number to care Fedex.

Kahr followed through and today (Wednesday) Fedex brought a brand new P380 to my friendly FFL. I have not had an opportunity to shoot it since it is cold and raining today. I will prep it as recommended in Jocko's post.

Let me tell you, I am very please with how this turned out. This whole process was beginning to cause me concern. I spent $52 to return the gun the 1st time and after 3 trips back to Kahr and finding it to be still plagued with problems I was a little unsure I would ever have a 100% P380. Kahr has made it right.

The new P380 Kahr sent me is over 5,000 higher in the serial number. I notice the roll mark on the left side is much deeper and darker and rally looks shape compared to my original. The barrel seems to be coated in nickel or some other substance that seems for lack of a better term "cleaner" but it is also brand new and I do not have the older barrel to look at. I notice also that the slide seems stiffer to rack but this may just be my perception. BUT one thing that is really different and it is not just my perception........THIS P380 has night sights and my original did not!!!!! WHOOP WHOOP!!!!
Please indulge me a little gloating OK?

All in all, Kahr made this a good thing.
I am excited to try to shoot tomorrow.

Thank you Kahr Customer Service!
Thank you Jocko for your encouragement.

[rkirk]

Well this certainly makes me feel better about buying my CW9. Thanks for hanging in there! And reporting back to this forum.

-- Richard

[Vinikahr]

Well I am back to give a followup on my P380 story.

As you know from reading this post, this gun gave me repeated light primer strikes and I sent it in 3 times previous. I called Kahr Customer Service on Monday morning and explained all that had been going on. To my never ending relief the kind gentleman said, "I know what what we are going to do, we are going to give you a new gun". As fast as I could I said OK..
He then gave me a billing number to care Fedex.

Kahr followed through and today (Wednesday) Fedex brought a brand new P380 to my friendly FFL. I have not had an opportunity to shoot it since it is cold and raining today. I will prep it as recommended in Jocko's post.

Let me tell you, I am very please with how this turned out. This whole process was beginning to cause me concern. I spent $52 to return the gun the 1st time and after 3 trips back to Kahr and finding it to be still plagued with problems I was a little unsure I would ever have a 100% P380. Kahr has made it right.

The new P380 Kahr sent me is over 5,000 higher in the serial number. I notice the roll mark on the left side is much deeper and darker and rally looks shape compared to my original. I notice also that the slide seems stiffer to rack but this may just be my perception. BUT one thing that is really different and it is not just my perception........THIS P380 has night sights and my original did not!!!!! WHOOP WHOOP!!!!
Please indulge me a little gloating OK?

All in all, Kahr made this a good thing.
I am excited to try to shoot tomorrow.

Thank you Kahr Customer Service!
Thank you Jocko for your encouragement.


Great ending!:cheer2:
Kudos to Kahr and Congrats 2U!

[Bawanna]

Heck yeah, I love a happy ending. Happy new gun to you.

Way to go Kahr. First range report pending, we wish you all good things.

[wyntrout]

Very good, fastgun. I'm happy for you and I'm very happy to hear that Kahr went an extra step there and not only replaced your "lemon" but gave you an upgrade as well. This is outstanding customer service... finally, and a great PR move as well.
I hope this one is flawless and you have no more troubles. Good luck, now you get to break in a NEW gun... with night sights!:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:
Wynn:D

[jeepster09]

Well before to much whoopla and cake....lets see how the new one works. :target: Hope it is good, I have been considering buying a 380 and the Kahr is A LOT SPENDIER than the others.

[fastgun]

I will not make this an on going saga, but with this last post I just wanted to say that I believe the P380 has been tweeked by Kahr to be slightly but ever more improved as the P380 ages.

My 1st one was numbered in the very low 1,000's in serial number. This one is numbered in the lower 6,000's. I believe that slight changes have been made. One change I note is the slide release lever on the 1st gun caught on, that is hung up on at least 3 different ball ammo brands and on Cor-Bon and Golden Saber. This newer one does not catch on any rounds. It is a good change......assuming this is a factory change and not just a machining variance.

This had nothing to do with my original guns problems, that was a problem in the frame itself. But I just want to commend Kahr for tweeking some issues that I have read about and getting the P380 closer to being free of issues.

I thank all of you who have posted.
Good luck and good shooting.

[The Habernatho]

Well before to much whoopla and cake....lets see how the new one works. :target: Hope it is good, I have been considering buying a 380 and the Kahr is A LOT SPENDIER than the others.
I'm in the same boat as you. Almost twice as much as an LCP, granted it has usable sights, and locks back after the last round. While not necessarily needed, all those seem like nice extras to have on a belly gun. But the LCP IMO seems like the more reliable choice at this point, maybe in another year that won't be the case. But probably the biggest dissuader is already owning a PM9 and seeing all the forum members who own both, and it seems like the P380 gets left at home more often than not. So I don't see the need to spend more money than necessary if I end up falling into that trend.

[wyntrout]

I consider the slide locking back on empty an absolute must. Just imagine you're having a bad day and something happens... and you do fire off a magazine but you've been a little busy and didn't count your shots, or count them accurately. Well, you could be on an empty chamber and not know it. Besides if the slide locks back, you drop the clip, insert the new one, hit the release, and you're back in action, faster and easier that another two-handed rack of the slide... maybe after clicking on empty... more than embarrassing!
It has all the features of a big gun -- "real sights" and no short cuts or "savings" passed on to you. Plus, it will handle +P ammo with the manufacturer's blessing. Yeah, it costs more, but it's worth more to me and a lot of others because it is a full blown quality gun with no compromises. Not JMHO!

That said, had I known it would take so long to get the "N" model I ordered, I could have bought a regular-sighted one and had the NS installed and the slide blackened -- another big wait! Maybe with the extra time a bunch of tweaks and improvements will bring me a trouble-free one, too.
I might have "lucked out" like fastgun and gotten a lemon... and gotten the NS version faster. :D I'm really happy for him and hope to get mine soon... closing on 11 months, but I wanted the night-sighted version.:p

But, as I'm fond of saying, I have my PM9 and PM45 DLC's to keep me company. I joined this forum after ordering the P380N and got bit by the Kahr bug, big time. I lucked out on a like-new PM9 in January and then finally got caught up on finances and out of debt so I could get the PM45 I've been wanting for years.
That "bug" is really getting around... lots of people here just can't get enough Kahrs. This isn't a rant or criticism, just an explanation.
Wynn:)

[jocko]

wyn: and ur dead right. Last round locking openis sure nice to have expecially on such a small gun and those dovetailed sights are the cats nuts. What other little pocket rocket even allows changing sights let aloen maybe xs big dot sights even. Pay more , get more. thelco is a good gun, but lets not over rate it. Remember they recalled every one of thier 50,000+ lcp to make them drop safe. Reliability in the lcp is certainly no better or worse than the P380. I own um both, harldy ever shoot either anymore. Jsut the PM9 can go damn near anywhere the 380's can and to me it is all about firepower to.

Price of 380 ammo today has jost spoiled me to not want to shoot it anymore. I canbuy a 100 pak of wwb 9mm for less moeny than 50 380 rounds, even if I can find um around..

No comparison in the two triggers either of the kahr or lcp/Ruger. Kahr is smooth as glass, lcp is well, OK but certainly not smooth.

[The Habernatho]

I consider the slide locking back on empty an absolute must.
On a primary gun I agree, but on a BUG not so much.

[jocko]

On a primary gun I agree, but on a BUG not so much.

certainly the Ruger lcp and the kel tec 380 do not have auto slide lock open. Still a damn nice feature, be it a BUG or not, but if it ain't there, one will never read of premature slide locking open as we have before on the P380 . They are squeezing alot into these small guns.

If I had a choice, I would pass ont he auto slide stop and go with the dovetail sights and the xs big dot availiability feature. Course damn nice to have both. which the Ruger lcp and Kel tedc 380 do not offer either..

[wyntrout]

On a primary gun I agree, but on a BUG not so much.

If I'm wearing the P380(when I get it) it will BE my primary gun. I wear shorts, T-shirts and Polos(for dressing up) down here in NE Florida... and I don't always wear belted shorts. That's relatively new because I got the PM9 and then the PM45. If I can carry the PM9, then I can carry the PM45, but when it's hot and I have the choice, I'll be carrying that P380N a lot as my EDC, if it works out and I can control the BB +P 90-gr JHP that I bought for it. I started watching for deals and bought all the ammo to break that in and carry ammo, many, many months ago.
The most expensive stuff I bought was 4 boxes of Aguila FMJ when we were passing through Tennessee last October $22 something a box. I got back about $2 from a $100 bill. I bought that because I was worried big time about finding break-in ammo to even shoot the P380.
Everything else I bought was on sale with coupons or other incentives as well.
The .380 cupboards are pretty bare again, though. But you have to look for availability and decent(these days) prices and be ready to jump on what you need for the best price, but it's hard to beat Internet prices... when you can find the stuff.
AmmoEngine: .380 ACP, Instock For Sale Premium & Discount Ammunition, Ammo Deals (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/.380_ACP) is a good place to start. They don't have much listed, though, right now.
Sportsmans' Guide is good, but they are out.
Cabela's has sales and promotions that I've used a lot and Cheaper Than Dirt(sometimes not so cheap, they scalp ammo, or DID) sometimes has good prices, too. But Google is a good place to start after ammo engine.
Good hunting for ammo and good shooting!
Wynn:D