Should a teacher have a right to Conceal carry?

[downtownv]

Subject: school shootings in Israel, not too common.
Subject: Israel's answer to safe guarding there schools.


http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html


Our Schools and any "Gun Free" Zone is an open invitation to a group of Defenseless victims and "Soft Target

[ripley16]

No arguement here. What always ends these terrible mass shootings are other armed people appearing on the scene prepared to do violence.

[LProf]

True, and no argument here either,but bear in mind that in Israel everyone, man and woman, must serve a tour of duty in the IDF, so the teachers have all had extensive training in the use of weapons.

And, it is not uncommon to see uniformed IDF members walking the streets with their automatic weapons slung over their shoulders.

Israelis are used to seeing weapons openly carried.

[Tinman507]

What about giving some of our returning veterans a shot at some of these jobs?

All have received weapons training, they're disciplined and many need a chance at new careers. If they're educated and certified as teachers, all the better.

[ripley16]

What about giving some of our returning veterans a shot at some of these jobs?

All have received weapons training, they're disciplined and many need a chance at new careers. If they're educated and certified as teachers, all the better.

Yes but, the current administration views that group as "terrorists" you know.

[Tinman507]

God what an upside down world we live in. I wonder what we'll look like in 4 years

[muggsy]

If the teacher is a law abiding citizen of the United States she should have every right to carry in school.

[Fxstchewy]

I think we should train EX military guys/gals to be teachers and help protect kids, i know some say " i don't want guns in schools" but they need to do a reality check.....they walk their kids by police at ballgames, malls, parades, airports.....come on wouldn't you rather have a teacher armed and at the ready, trained to protect your child.
Some people need to get their heads out of the sand also called mamby-pambyland.
These guys need jobs and have the training to defend send them to school, learn them to teach, at the least they would be a deterent....

[downtownv]

What about giving some of our returning veterans a shot at some of these jobs?

All have received weapons training, they're disciplined and many need a chance at new careers. If they're educated and certified as teachers, all the better.
A Job teaching? or security? Security isn't gonna work with the current rate of School taxes and the hours a school is open it's not a one man job....

[downtownv]

If the teacher is a law abiding citizen of the United States she should have every right to carry in school.
That's the way I see it...

[les strat]

If their duty was to protect the students in a situation such as last week, I could see requiring training. If it was just to be able to CC, just require them to keep it safe in a proper holster on their person away from kids.

Something has to be done, because locking the door, covering it with a sheet, turning off the light, and hunkering down is basically waiting to die.

[Bawanna]

Best to utilize personnel that are already in the school Most of our High Schools have assigned uniformed police officers but you can almost count on the fact that he won't be where the bad thing happens, as stated not a one man job.

Janitors, teachers, the more the better should be armed.

I've often thought for many years that mail carriers should be deputized. Nobody knows a neighborhood better than your mailman. What belongs, what doesn't. Don't necessarily have to be armed but equipped and instructed to be eyes in the field.

[7shot]

I don't like the idea of teachers carrying handguns in our schools. They are there to teach not police. I like the idea of using returning vets or retired cops as school security. These people are professionally trained and well versed in response situations.

[les strat]

I don't like the idea of teachers carrying handguns in our schools. They are there to teach not police. I like the idea of using returning vets or retired cops as school security. These people are professionally trained and well versed in response situations.

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Bawanna]

The problem is cost and the security personnel getting bored to tears with nothing to do probably forever.

Then you have to consider how many people do you hire per school and how many is effective.

Most districts around here pay to have a police officer assigned, he usually spends most of his day at the High School but visits the junior high and elementary too. That's really not enough for a situation like Friday.

They almost have to have some sort of other function and the protection part is a side benefit.

Heck we struggle around here just to pass levies to keep teachers and stuff. I'm sure Odummy would like to nationalize it and subsidize it from tax payers and utilize them as his version of the black shirts when the time comes.

[chrish]

I agree it'd be tough to have more than 1 or 2 armed individuals in a school for a number of reasons. but I'll maintain that 1 or 2 is all it'd take. One, deterrence factor. Two, if access were not possible, 1 would be plenty. The school involved this time had a system to prevent access, less having bullet-proof windows. Assuming the information we are getting is accurate (and that's a big if), had the school had bullet proof windows, this evil would have had to come thru the front door and be buzzed thru. Very likely it wouldn't have happened, or that at least some warning would have been possible. One point of entry is MUCH more possible to police.

If the govt is so freakin' scared of every tom, ****, and harry out there w/ a gun to the point that they have bullet proofed govt buildings all over the country, put up concrete barriers to help prevent bombings, etc. Then where is the same concern for the children now you pukes! How about abolish the useless dept of education and spend to put bullet-proof glass in all school windows, double-pane 'em, single point of access, concrete barriers, metal detector and an armed guard that looks like Chuck Norris in Expendables 2 standing at that one point of entry. Problem solved.

That still leave before/after school, to and from the buses, etc. Massive police presence in the general area for a short while in the AM and PM. Problem solved.

This is NOT a difficult problem to solve and it doesn't require disarming the entire country, making stupid laws, or even arming every teacher and administrator. A few changes is all it would take.

It's just easier to put blame on something you already want to eliminate. Guns.

[mr surveyor]

anyone that's legally licensed in their state to carry a weapon should be allowed to carry anywhere in that state a LEO can carry. PERIOD.

[muggsy]

I think we should train EX military guys/gals to be teachers and help protect kids, i know some say " i don't want guns in schools" but they need to do a reality check.....they walk their kids by police at ballgames, malls, parades, airports.....come on wouldn't you rather have a teacher armed and at the ready, trained to protect your child.
Some people need to get their heads out of the sand also called mamby-pambyland.
These guys need jobs and have the training to defend send them to school, learn them to teach, at the least they would be a deterent....

And some of them have PTSD. Be careful of what you wish for. There are always unintended consequences to every solution.

[gm412]

If trained then yes

[Bawanna]

Around here most of our schools have multiple buildings on each campus. The High School is one building but numerous access points.
It doesn't matter to me as much now that my last graduated this last year but a single point access while inconvenient could and probably would create a TSA situation.
All our schools require that visitors sign in at the office, of course that's easily avoided and in my case they knew me and didn't care if I signed or not as I usually went in to say hi anyhow.

If they want to stick with the free fire no guns plan so only the security guy has a gun, then those like me who carried anyhow would probably be disarmed at the entrance point meaning that myself a potential assistant to the forces of good and right would be driving down the road someplace else and have to read about another attack after the fact.

[Ol'coot]

If the teacher is a law abiding citizen of the United States she should have every right to carry in school.

I do agree with muggsy in principle as I firmly believe that the constitution grants us all that right and that pistol free zones just invite the criminals to do what ever they want with little change of anyone fighting back.

With that said, I also strongly think anyone that plans to place themselves in a position where they may have to act to use deadly force on the behalf of someone else on a routine basis to defend someone that is defenseless because of their age, size or just their inability to defend themselves should at the very least be required to take some advanced training in handling a firearm and to learn the best methods that can be used in handling the type of situations that is likely to present itself is a must.

I know I feel very comfortable that I would be able to defend myself but I am not sure that my limited training has prepared me for the type of situation that may unfold at a elementary school.

My worst nightmare would be to harm the people I was trying to protect because of my lack of training and skills. This scenario has me thinking that strong training and tactics would be called for and that the choice of ammo such as frangible rounds would be required to keep over penetration to a minimum.

With all of that being said, If I was armed and unexpectedly caught in the middle of something like this going down , any action taken to stop the killing is probably better than no action.

[les strat]

There is a big difference in protecting your own self or your family, and defending a school full of children in a tactical situation. It is a liability. But not having any protection in schools is a bigger liability IMO.

[Armybrat]

Yes, but with additional training & screening.

[LorenzoB]

anyone that's legally licensed in their state to carry a weapon should be allowed to carry anywhere in that state a LEO can carry. PERIOD.

Yep. Wouldn't cost tax payers a cent. And then no criminal wouldn't know what situation they may be walking into. No more gun free zones would be a clear deterrent and would reduce the chance of this happening again (without costing taxpayers). Although I wouldn't be opposed to some subsidized training course to encourage teachers to carry.

[Geobob]

I think some teachers with CCW would be beneficial to supplement any other security personnel. Caveate is they must receive formal training beyond CCL requirements, to include appropriate action scenarios range practice. And give preference to former military and LE persons.

[kahr47]

How about fencing in the entire school grounds and having two BIG Dobermans patrol? When classes are between session or end of day,lock em up. Otherwise, let them roam.

I would think a bad guy would think a little more about coming near the front door knowing he would be facing a couple of snarling dogs trained to take him out. It might be more effective than a scared teacher holding a shaking gun, experiencing tunnel vision, sweaty palms, and wondering what the lawyers will do if they miss.

A big bag of dog food and a ****** scooper don't cost much. ( The ****** scooper is for the bad guy!! )

I know this isn't feasible, but what is this day and age? We in our 60's have to admit that we had childhoods in the very best of times but have slowly seen our society (thru Presidents, Congress, ACLU, etc ) put band aids on problems instead of solving them. I don't know the answer but it's nice to have forums and the freedom to discuss. Pray to God they don't take that away from us.

[RRP]

There is a seldom talked-about provision in the Gun-Free School Zones Act which does allow individuals to be in possession of a firearm in school. Essentially, if an individual is licensed to carry in the state, and if law enforcement in that state verifies that the individual is qualified to receive the license, then that individual can legally carry in schools.

[downtownv]

Front sight is offering FREE training to any school teacher!

[Bongo Boy]

It's not really a question of whether they should have the right...they DO have the right. It's a question only of whether our 47% chooses to allow passage of laws that penalize them for the exercise of that right.

What will we look like in 4 years? Hard to say. I saw a story on one of the major networks stations this morning, about 10 minutes long, telling us all about the 'concern' and the 'dangers' of Pyrex cookware, and the 'growing' problem. I believe it was a TOTAL of 140 incidents throughout the country in 2012 of Pyrex cookware breaking--sometimes after the user pulled it from the oven and placed it on a wet towel, or knowingly and admittedly ignored manufacturer's cautions.

In a society where the breakage of glass cookware--all 140 cases--is a national concern, it's little surprise 47% of our nation can't successfully wipe themselves without government intervention.

I firmly believe every adult in the country should at the very least be put through a 12 week boot camp--maybe we'd have more people able to make decisions, do a few things where what they want isn't the first concern, and be able to wipe themselves without permission, guidance or the authorities protecting them from harsh toilet tissue.

Everyone in this country is more than capable of stepping up to the plate and accomplishing extraordinary, selfless things--and many do, everyday. Unfortunately, only a very small percentage is apparently ever asked to do anything at all, and even fewer are expected to. Low expectations don't produce too many pleasant surprises.

[Planedude]

anyone that's legally licensed in their state to carry a weapon should be allowed to carry anywhere in that state a LEO can carry. PERIOD.

This is the proposal for Texas to be discussed in our next legislative session.
I agree with the others here who belive having only ONE guy-with-a-gun makes him a target or makes him easier to defeat (wait till he leaves to gas his car, go do paperwork ect...) than an unknown number of teachers, janitors and admin staff with a CHL.
Far from ideal (find the nut-jobs and treat them before they snap is better) but it is the soloution we as a nation can currently afford.
I cry for the young substitute teacher in the classroom with the most carnage in CT. She was not allowed to have the keys to lockdown her classroom and she never stood a chance. The two wounded teachers were shot because they had to step into the hallway with keys as the doors to classrooms only lock from the outside. with doors that open outward (fire issue) there is no way for the teacher to secure the door during lockdown without stepping out of the room. That's nuts. My 27yr old Daughter fills in as a sub and she was first to point this out to me. We have (and are working on), some mesure of security that she can use in such a situation, but basicly everything useful is "aginst policy" and subject to termanation.
If we are looking for a starting point for school saftey (in such cases), how about starting there. If all we give our teachers to save them and our children is "lockdown" how about some useful locks.

[knkali]

Many schools have armed security already. Dont know what the problem is to go bigger with this. They have the model already, they have the costs....do it. We can find the money. It is just prioritizing what is important to get the funding. I can think of a lot of sheet that can be cut to fund this. The NRA offered free training nation wide. Well it isnt free, members pay for it but I have no problem with funding this through my membership. The psychos in this country have started a new industry for us. School Security. After a while the armed guards will blend in and never be thought of or noticed until needed. Remember they are there to protect the staff too. I am sure teacher(s) would feel good knowing that someone is watching them get to their cars safely too at the end of the day.

[Pyranha]

I'm a teacher, albeit at the college level, who has a concealed pistol license. Before there's any real talk about being able to conceal carry in the class room, I'd just like the legal ability to leave my pistol locked in my glove box.

[MikeyKahr]

That would be nice, wouldn't it, Pyrahna? Hospitals, colleges, civil administration, etc.

[Bawanna]

I'm a teacher, albeit at the college level, who has a concealed pistol license. Before there's any real talk about being able to conceal carry in the class room, I'd just like the legal ability to leave my pistol locked in my glove box.

Depending on where you are you may be able to do just that. Here the parking lot of a school is considered public domain. Anyone can drive through the parking lot. Only inside the building or enclosed walk ways do the school zone free fire zone rules apply.

Here as long as your vehicle is locked and the gun is not visible from outside your good to go.

Just remember if your gun is in your car, it might as well be on the moon, you most likely won't be able to get it when you really need it.

Question authority, bend the rules, ignore stupid ones, that's always been my motto.

[RRP]

The federal Gun-Free School Zones Act does not apply to colleges and universities. Of course, states and local municipalities can impose their own restrictions.

[Tinman507]

Colleges & Universities generally have prohibitions against carry by Students and Employees. The penalty is usually discharge. That is the only force of law they have.

I am a parent, not a student, not a professor. The worst they can do to me is tell me to leave. If I refuse, THEN I violate the law with defiant trespass and can be arrested.

[wyntrout]

Qualified and CWP licensed teachers should be able to carry or at least pre-position their weapon in a good biometric-locked safe in their desk. Retention around "kids" has to be a concern... no pistols in purses or badly-printing CW's.

The armed teachers should receive extra training because of the danger of shooting kids... through walls and such... as well as participate in drills with law enforcement on proper procedures during emergencies... with emphasis on not scaring the kids to death, but trying to protect them as best as possible.

I would think that any good security setup would include surveillance cameras and at least 2-3 armed "guards"... one monitoring the surveillance monitors and all able to communicate by radios. One roving guard or one at the front door is NOT enough.

Wynn:)

[RRP]

Many teachers who have a conceal carry license, can legally carry in school. They just don't know it.

[Pyranha]

Depending on where you are you may be able to do just that. Here the parking lot of a school is considered public domain. Anyone can drive through the parking lot. Only inside the building or enclosed walk ways do the school zone free fire zone rules apply.

Here as long as your vehicle is locked and the gun is not visible from outside your good to go.

Just remember if your gun is in your car, it might as well be on the moon, you most likely won't be able to get it when you really need it.

Much to my dismay, that's not the case in North Carolina. Or any other state I've lived in. It's something I always ask about during CCW/CPL training in a new state. Throughout my professional career before teaching, every company whom I've worked for has had policies against not just carrying but storing your pistol in your own glove box when your vehicle is parked in company parking. A number have even prohibited them to be in your own vehicle when traveling on company business.

At my previous employer, a few times a year they'd have security personal attempt to search people's vehicle upon entering the parking lot or garage - specifically looking for those who conceal carry. Frequently you'd see a handful of people park else where that day, but you don't always have that option.

Personally I'm inclined to believe there should be some regulation on the issue. While allowing companies to prohibit carrying on company property, not allowing them to prohibit pistols from being stored in personal non-company vehicles.


Many teachers who have a conceal carry license, can legally carry in school. They just don't know it.

Perhaps in some states, but not in any state I've taken CCW/CPL training in.

Additionally, every university or Fortune 500 company I've worked for has had a policy declaring immediate discharge for possessing a firearm on university/company grounds - including parking lots.

[RRP]

Many teachers who have a conceal carry license, can legally carry in school. They just don't know it.



Perhaps in some states, but not in any state I've taken CCW/CPL training in.

Additionally, every university or Fortune 500 company I've worked for has had a policy declaring immediate discharge for possessing a firearm on university/company grounds - including parking lots.

Though it wasn't clear, my comment was in reference to the federal law as it applies to elementary and secondary schools, not to your situation at the post-secondary level.

I agree with everything you posted regarding restrictions imposed by employers.

[k_dawg]

Teachers already have the right.
Only a Free society recognizes that right.

[Barth]

Yes

[knkali]

wow so teachers are allowed the responsibility to shape and form young minds but not to carry or store their gun in their car. Hmmmmm

[pocket pistol]

God what an upside down world we live in. I wonder what we'll look like in 4 years

My sentiments exactly...